Seems the heli set up is the current trend these days,everyone I know uses them I've gone back to lead clips and seem to catch more,coincidence???
In reply to Post #1
I use them all the time I did start using helicopter setups and other things but felt like it wasn't needed went back to lead clips and I'm having one of my best years to date so far 🤞
I use them all the time I did start using helicopter setups and other things but felt like it wasn't needed went back to lead clips and I'm having one of my best years to date so far 🤞
In reply to Post #1
I don't think so no. I had an awful hooked to landed ratio using Heli setups,go back to clips and it improved massively
I don't think so no. I had an awful hooked to landed ratio using Heli setups,go back to clips and it improved massively
In reply to Post #3
I've also gone back onto a lead clip set up 👍
I've also gone back onto a lead clip set up 👍
Yes, rarely use anything other than a lead clip
I haven't used a helicopter set up for over 25 years.
I've never used a helicopter rig and doubt I ever will. Haven't felt the need to in 30 years of carp fishing (or it could be I'm lazy and don't want to change)
In reply to Post #1
I use them all the time on rivers for Barbel - what's funny is when they're mentioned on some of the Barbel or river FB pages, half the old farts have a coronary at the thought anyone would use ‘fixed leads' and bolt rigs for Barbel, cos you don't need anything other than a running rig, a 4 foot hooklink and a bit of meat
I use them all the time on rivers for Barbel - what's funny is when they're mentioned on some of the Barbel or river FB pages, half the old farts have a coronary at the thought anyone would use ‘fixed leads' and bolt rigs for Barbel, cos you don't need anything other than a running rig, a 4 foot hooklink and a bit of meat
In reply to Post #1
Depends on where and how I'm fishing but I would say about half the time I have a lead clip on, the other half is either a helicopter or running rig.
Depends on where and how I'm fishing but I would say about half the time I have a lead clip on, the other half is either a helicopter or running rig.
I haven't owned a lead clip for a good 8 years and didn't use the ones I was carting around for the previous 2. I can't see why you wouldn't just use a run ring that drops snagged leads and indication is as inefficient as a heli imo so the only advantage is dropping the lead intentionally because a firm drag on the rests will drive a hook further home than a 3 oz lead semi fixed on a clip
In reply to Post #1
Lead clip is more effective over clean bottom imo and I use them extensively but helis (which I also use) are essential for weedier waters imo.
Lead clip is more effective over clean bottom imo and I use them extensively but helis (which I also use) are essential for weedier waters imo.
I haven't used a lead Clip for years and I mean years, probably fifteen. It would pickle my brain.
I get the theory where with a helicopter the bait sits over the weed when the hooklink flys up the leader.
However all of the lakes I fish are very weedy and I tend to fish the small clear spots.
With a lead clip (or running lead) the bait sits directly behind the lead if it hits a clear spot.
If You were using a heli rig and hit a clear spot the rig could surely fly up and catch in weed in front of the spot
Just my thought and might be over thinking things but it works for me
However all of the lakes I fish are very weedy and I tend to fish the small clear spots.
With a lead clip (or running lead) the bait sits directly behind the lead if it hits a clear spot.
If You were using a heli rig and hit a clear spot the rig could surely fly up and catch in weed in front of the spot
Just my thought and might be over thinking things but it works for me
In reply to Post #13
In that situation a lead clip is a no brainer
In that situation a lead clip is a no brainer
I've also gone back to leadclips in the past couple of years, over helicopters. 2 reasons being that I've started using supple braid rigs again, and they also make life easier when it comes to quickly clipping on a zig.
I can honestly say I have never purchased a leadclip.
I have about 15-20 in my tackle box though, every single one of which I have found, or retrieved from snags, many with leads still attached!
ESP, Korda, Fox.
The only reason they are still in there is I didn't fancy dumping them in the rubbish, and I'm too lazy to clean the box out
Years ago, I proved to myself, and mates, that helicopter rigs provide reduced indication. It has become a debate on here!
Occasionally I use helicopter set-ups, but rarely.
Wherever possible I prefer to use running leads, plain basic run ring to quicklink, but should I ever need to drop a lead, use a paper clip.
I have about 15-20 in my tackle box though, every single one of which I have found, or retrieved from snags, many with leads still attached!
ESP, Korda, Fox.
The only reason they are still in there is I didn't fancy dumping them in the rubbish, and I'm too lazy to clean the box out
Years ago, I proved to myself, and mates, that helicopter rigs provide reduced indication. It has become a debate on here!
Occasionally I use helicopter set-ups, but rarely.
Wherever possible I prefer to use running leads, plain basic run ring to quicklink, but should I ever need to drop a lead, use a paper clip.
In reply to Post #16
Surely if the top bead is only 3-5” up and the leads plugged 2-3” it will provide very good bite indication. I try to set the bead To suit the substrate as best as possible. I use a heli set up 95% of my angling as it's mainly weed or silt and have never suffered poor bite indication. I get liners when there in the area, And screaming takes on slack lines.
What advantage does a running set up have ? This isn't an argument response I'm just interested as I've only used them for barbel fishing personally.
Surely if the top bead is only 3-5” up and the leads plugged 2-3” it will provide very good bite indication. I try to set the bead To suit the substrate as best as possible. I use a heli set up 95% of my angling as it's mainly weed or silt and have never suffered poor bite indication. I get liners when there in the area, And screaming takes on slack lines.
What advantage does a running set up have ? This isn't an argument response I'm just interested as I've only used them for barbel fishing personally.
all depends if you need to use them or not
In reply to Post #17
If your lead buries into silt the indication you get is sometimes a bow being formed between the rod tip and lead. The fish may dislodge the top bead and run back up the line with just a few bleeps, meaning unplugging the lead and winding down until you get proper contact. A running lead has an anchor point and gives indication regardless of which way the fish goes, sometimes on a drop back type bite the lead will move but the initial indication means you don't have to fish ping tight and cut lines through patrol routes.
I think that does make it less likely a heli set up can be ‘thrown' like a lead clip/in-line but still not a efficiently as a running lead and with more potential slack before full contact.
Imo a good angler will use what suits the situation. If 95% of peoples fishing is with a lead clip I'd hazard a guess that 95% of the fishing they do is on the same or similar types of water. Or that between 0 and 95% of their fishing would suit a different approach but you ain't impressing anyone without a Ronnie gti German half withy helicopter rigged rod leaning on your shelter.
If your lead buries into silt the indication you get is sometimes a bow being formed between the rod tip and lead. The fish may dislodge the top bead and run back up the line with just a few bleeps, meaning unplugging the lead and winding down until you get proper contact. A running lead has an anchor point and gives indication regardless of which way the fish goes, sometimes on a drop back type bite the lead will move but the initial indication means you don't have to fish ping tight and cut lines through patrol routes.
I think that does make it less likely a heli set up can be ‘thrown' like a lead clip/in-line but still not a efficiently as a running lead and with more potential slack before full contact.
Imo a good angler will use what suits the situation. If 95% of peoples fishing is with a lead clip I'd hazard a guess that 95% of the fishing they do is on the same or similar types of water. Or that between 0 and 95% of their fishing would suit a different approach but you ain't impressing anyone without a Ronnie gti German half withy helicopter rigged rod leaning on your shelter.
In reply to Post #17
022 23:31:25In reply to Post #16
Surely if the top bead is only 3-5” up and the leads plugged 2-3” it will provide very good bite indication. I try to set the bead To suit the substrate as best as possible. I use a heli set up 95% of my angling as it's mainly weed or silt and have never suffered poor bite indication. I get liners when there in the area, And screaming takes on slack lines.
What advantage does a running set up have ? This isn't an argument response I'm just interested as I've only used them for barbel fishing personally
I love the comment, 'have never suffered poor bite indication'. Have you seen EVERY take?
You only get screaming takes when the fish decide to run, yet some of your liners, bleeps, twitches of the indicators are likely your rig being taken and ejected. Even more so with a slack line!
The fish have the length of your rig length to move, AND the distance of your top and bottom stop.
A running lead, with a run ring, either with a slack, or tight line, gives you the benefit of the fish having the length of the rig to move, (decreased if you have straightened your rig), and with a slack line, they CAN'T use the weight of the lead to eject the rig.
With a tight line, it becomes a bolt rig.
022 23:31:25In reply to Post #16
Surely if the top bead is only 3-5” up and the leads plugged 2-3” it will provide very good bite indication. I try to set the bead To suit the substrate as best as possible. I use a heli set up 95% of my angling as it's mainly weed or silt and have never suffered poor bite indication. I get liners when there in the area, And screaming takes on slack lines.
What advantage does a running set up have ? This isn't an argument response I'm just interested as I've only used them for barbel fishing personally
I love the comment, 'have never suffered poor bite indication'. Have you seen EVERY take?
You only get screaming takes when the fish decide to run, yet some of your liners, bleeps, twitches of the indicators are likely your rig being taken and ejected. Even more so with a slack line!
The fish have the length of your rig length to move, AND the distance of your top and bottom stop.
A running lead, with a run ring, either with a slack, or tight line, gives you the benefit of the fish having the length of the rig to move, (decreased if you have straightened your rig), and with a slack line, they CAN'T use the weight of the lead to eject the rig.
With a tight line, it becomes a bolt rig.
In reply to Post #16
How did you prove to your mates about helicopter rigs and the Reduced indication?
How did you prove to your mates about helicopter rigs and the Reduced indication?
In reply to Post #20
Can't see every take no 100% but using hand sharpened hooks and blow back rigs you do get to see if the rigs been done or ejected.
Can't see every take no 100% but using hand sharpened hooks and blow back rigs you do get to see if the rigs been done or ejected.
In reply to Post #21
I must admit when I was using/ use a helicopter setup my takes where never what I call screaming takes it was only ever a couple bleeps and had to watch the line and rod tip. Gone back to a lead clip and on the same lake the indication seems a lot better
I must admit when I was using/ use a helicopter setup my takes where never what I call screaming takes it was only ever a couple bleeps and had to watch the line and rod tip. Gone back to a lead clip and on the same lake the indication seems a lot better
If anybody wants to know what really happens underwater (not on the bankside showing your mates) the 100% proof is online with Rob Hughes videos when he goes underwater with his cameras and scuba gear , he shows indication with various rigs and different tension of the lines . There's no hearsay required , it may open your eyes on presentation , it did for me
I have to say I find deciding what lead arrangement to use is my biggest head scratcher. Over recent seasons I've hit upon a rig that I have complete confidence in but I chop and change how I set my leader up. I generally move around and try and find fish with minimal gear (rarely fish nights as I simply don't enjoy the bulk) so I have most confidence in a helicopter style setup as I feel it's ‘fishing' more often than not. However I really don't think it can possibly give the best bite indication or hooking potential. I try and cast as little as possible as I want to be as stealthy as I can. Are people happy fishing for ‘drops' with a lead clip setup and a balanced style bait?
In reply to Post #25
I like the 'convenience' of lead clips more than anything else but I have been fishing a water where anything over 1.5oz has to be dropped. With the lake having a primarily hard bottom I've been using 5oz plus leads and MCF dumper clips with a stiff rig and the hooking ratio is good - on a tight clutch no real screaming takes but a few bleeps / nodding rod tip and the fish is pretty much already hooked before you pick up the rod.
Also use drop off inlines with bags and on this basis have been messing with DIY cog leads more recently on bait boat presentations. . .no real noticeable difference in terms of hooking ratio vs a standard clip but hopefully time will tell whether the faff is worth it . . .
I like the 'convenience' of lead clips more than anything else but I have been fishing a water where anything over 1.5oz has to be dropped. With the lake having a primarily hard bottom I've been using 5oz plus leads and MCF dumper clips with a stiff rig and the hooking ratio is good - on a tight clutch no real screaming takes but a few bleeps / nodding rod tip and the fish is pretty much already hooked before you pick up the rod.
Also use drop off inlines with bags and on this basis have been messing with DIY cog leads more recently on bait boat presentations. . .no real noticeable difference in terms of hooking ratio vs a standard clip but hopefully time will tell whether the faff is worth it . . .
In reply to Post #21
#16
How did you prove to your mates about helicopter rigs and the Reduced indication?
By casting rigs out to the Far margins, or onto the bank and lowering them in, then with them staying by the rod after the indicators were set, going round and moving the rig, and the lead. Waders were worn!
On a 40metre distance, leads could be moved approximately 6metres if the lead was moved in an arc.
At Nazeing, on a 120metre cast a fish made it 30 metres to the island with only a couple of bleeps.
#16
How did you prove to your mates about helicopter rigs and the Reduced indication?
By casting rigs out to the Far margins, or onto the bank and lowering them in, then with them staying by the rod after the indicators were set, going round and moving the rig, and the lead. Waders were worn!
On a 40metre distance, leads could be moved approximately 6metres if the lead was moved in an arc.
At Nazeing, on a 120metre cast a fish made it 30 metres to the island with only a couple of bleeps.
In reply to Post #27
Surely that's down to indicator set up rather then lead arrangement
Surely that's down to indicator set up rather then lead arrangement
In reply to Post #27
It sounds like an unsafe rig to me. If the top bead moves under the weight of the lead the fish can move in any direction bar straight towards you and will be pulling line the whole time.
Indication with a properly set up heli should be miles better than with a lead clip set up
It sounds like an unsafe rig to me. If the top bead moves under the weight of the lead the fish can move in any direction bar straight towards you and will be pulling line the whole time.
Indication with a properly set up heli should be miles better than with a lead clip set up
Lead clip and tubing is my go to setup. Last week I changed over to heli's as my syndicate lake has got very weedy.
Like both, prefer lead clips.
Like both, prefer lead clips.
In reply to Post #27
Mad because I fish super slack. Even a coot touches my rig or line it sets the alarm off.
Mad because I fish super slack. Even a coot touches my rig or line it sets the alarm off.
In reply to Post #27
So the test you did was for fish kiting on a tight line?
So the test you did was for fish kiting on a tight line?
In reply to Post #31
With a Heli set up?
With a Heli set up?
In reply to Post #33
Yes pal. 25-30 yards out
Yes pal. 25-30 yards out
In reply to Post #29
Could you please point out to me where I said the top bead moved?
In every test, we moved the rig, we moved the lead, with tight and slack line, with no indicator, with indicator set as tight as possible, helicopter setups provided reduced bite indication over an inline, leadclip semi-fixed lead.
Best indication came from running leads, on a slack line, indicator at maximum drop, not tight, line touching the bottom of the rings, moving the hook any direction beyond rig length, but undertow on various lakes can mean this is not always viable.
An extreme inflow or outflow on the test lake meant that at times lines had to be held dead tight, and on occasion a 3oz lead was not enough to hold bottom, on a 'stillwater'.
Could you please point out to me where I said the top bead moved?
In every test, we moved the rig, we moved the lead, with tight and slack line, with no indicator, with indicator set as tight as possible, helicopter setups provided reduced bite indication over an inline, leadclip semi-fixed lead.
Best indication came from running leads, on a slack line, indicator at maximum drop, not tight, line touching the bottom of the rings, moving the hook any direction beyond rig length, but undertow on various lakes can mean this is not always viable.
An extreme inflow or outflow on the test lake meant that at times lines had to be held dead tight, and on occasion a 3oz lead was not enough to hold bottom, on a 'stillwater'.
In reply to Post #35
Could you please point out to me where I said the top bead moved?
You didn't, and you didn't need to point out that it hadn't, I could tell that by the lack of indication. You try that test with one of my rigs and you'll find that heli rigs can give indication almost on a par with a run rig. If you fix the hook link next to the lead it'll give the same crap indication as any other semi fixed set up.
Could you please point out to me where I said the top bead moved?
You didn't, and you didn't need to point out that it hadn't, I could tell that by the lack of indication. You try that test with one of my rigs and you'll find that heli rigs can give indication almost on a par with a run rig. If you fix the hook link next to the lead it'll give the same crap indication as any other semi fixed set up.
In reply to Post #35
Did you carry this test out using roller buzzers?
Did you carry this test out using roller buzzers?
In reply to Post #36
How are you setting it up then mate? The physics of a heli set up and a running rig set up are polar opposite...
On a heli rig you are still relying on the carp picking up the bait and engaging the lead, which depending how far up your top bead is set could be a few or several inches for the hooklink to travel..that is not going to register anything on your alarms until the fish is hooked by the weight of the lead and moves away....
Genuinely intrigued 🤔
How are you setting it up then mate? The physics of a heli set up and a running rig set up are polar opposite...
On a heli rig you are still relying on the carp picking up the bait and engaging the lead, which depending how far up your top bead is set could be a few or several inches for the hooklink to travel..that is not going to register anything on your alarms until the fish is hooked by the weight of the lead and moves away....
Genuinely intrigued 🤔
In reply to Post #1
I used a lead clip for years before swapping to a heli or in line lead when using PVA bags.
Nothing wrong with a lead clip but I think possibly more people use them because maybe they struggle to put together other rigs such as Heli's, Chods running setups etc?
I used a lead clip for years before swapping to a heli or in line lead when using PVA bags.
Nothing wrong with a lead clip but I think possibly more people use them because maybe they struggle to put together other rigs such as Heli's, Chods running setups etc?
In reply to Post #38
Suppose the top bead isn't there or is free to move unrestricted after the cast...
Unless it swims straight at you it's gonna be pulling line
Suppose the top bead isn't there or is free to move unrestricted after the cast...
Unless it swims straight at you it's gonna be pulling line
In reply to Post #40
But that's nothing like a running rig....... its the complete opposite.
The only advantage I can see for a heli set up over a lead clip is when fishing over blanket weed or silt, otherwise there's no advantage at all....and let's face it, indication would be very poor if you are fishing without a top beed and the fish swims in any direction apart from away from the lead...with a lead clip it picks the bait up, feels the weight and no matter which direction it moves it will move the lead....your rig wouldn't....simple physics...
But that's nothing like a running rig....... its the complete opposite.
The only advantage I can see for a heli set up over a lead clip is when fishing over blanket weed or silt, otherwise there's no advantage at all....and let's face it, indication would be very poor if you are fishing without a top beed and the fish swims in any direction apart from away from the lead...with a lead clip it picks the bait up, feels the weight and no matter which direction it moves it will move the lead....your rig wouldn't....simple physics...
what about a heli type set up semi fixed up the line like a paternoster rig so that the fish pulls directly on the line without relying on the lead to move? the feeder rigs i used many years ago used to give very good indication off bream roach etc. Obviously the type of indicator and how tight the line is would play a part in the level of indication
In reply to Post #42
Yes they work well with a quivertip, or even a swing tip but both are under tension. The swing tip less so and no good in a wind or with undertow. I'm still convinced heli rigs are not as good at bite detection as lead clips or running rigs. I've never used a chod rig for the same reason. Although I can see they have a use , where there is no alternative other than to fish elsewhere.
Yes they work well with a quivertip, or even a swing tip but both are under tension. The swing tip less so and no good in a wind or with undertow. I'm still convinced heli rigs are not as good at bite detection as lead clips or running rigs. I've never used a chod rig for the same reason. Although I can see they have a use , where there is no alternative other than to fish elsewhere.
In reply to Post #41
Indeed simple physics
The lead doesn't have to move, in fact it's best if it doesn't. the rig is on the line a distance from the lead. To move in any direction bar straight at you, it tightens the line giving indication. By fixing the rig with the top bead it hampers indication considerably
Indeed simple physics
The lead doesn't have to move, in fact it's best if it doesn't. the rig is on the line a distance from the lead. To move in any direction bar straight at you, it tightens the line giving indication. By fixing the rig with the top bead it hampers indication considerably
In reply to Post #44
So are you fishing a tight or slack line?
So are you fishing a tight or slack line?
In reply to Post #45
It doesn't really matter, just as long as you get the right balance between the lead and indicator. You want indication before the lead moves so I have a decent drop on the bobbin and if you need a heavy bobbin then obviously you need to up the lead size
You do have to consider that there is distance between the lead and rig, and leaders aren't the best option as the rig can move above it easily but don't go back on it easily once your playing the fish, so close range deep water you really don't want a tight line
It doesn't really matter, just as long as you get the right balance between the lead and indicator. You want indication before the lead moves so I have a decent drop on the bobbin and if you need a heavy bobbin then obviously you need to up the lead size
You do have to consider that there is distance between the lead and rig, and leaders aren't the best option as the rig can move above it easily but don't go back on it easily once your playing the fish, so close range deep water you really don't want a tight line
In reply to Post #46
Interesting and well worth playing around with although I remain to be convinced the indication would be anything remotely close to that of a running rig.
Interesting and well worth playing around with although I remain to be convinced the indication would be anything remotely close to that of a running rig.
In reply to Post #47
In theory if the fish kites it would actually give better indication than a run rig, as its moving away from both fixed points
In theory if the fish kites it would actually give better indication than a run rig, as its moving away from both fixed points
In reply to Post #48
Don't agree personally.
A rig moving freely on either a slack or tight mainline will not give better indication than a rig which is in direct contact with your mainline moving freely on a running rig.
Look at the indication on a "running" chod rig, which is exactly the same in theory as a heli....it's awful until the fish either engages with the bead at either the lead end or the top bead....
Still an interesting rig though and I get your point about using the correct lead and indication which may well be the difference...
Don't agree personally.
A rig moving freely on either a slack or tight mainline will not give better indication than a rig which is in direct contact with your mainline moving freely on a running rig.
Look at the indication on a "running" chod rig, which is exactly the same in theory as a heli....it's awful until the fish either engages with the bead at either the lead end or the top bead....
Still an interesting rig though and I get your point about using the correct lead and indication which may well be the difference...
In reply to Post #49
Yeah a super light bobbin registers far more. A heavy bobbin can act like an anchor. I like his theory behind tight and slack. A slack over a hedge will move more freely then a tight line going through it
Yeah a super light bobbin registers far more. A heavy bobbin can act like an anchor. I like his theory behind tight and slack. A slack over a hedge will move more freely then a tight line going through it
Originally the chod rig was cast out to a silt spot and retrieved to see how far up the leadcore was stained by the silt, theory being if the top bead was set just above this staining the rig would settle on top of the silt and the link would contact the bead soon as picked up.now people seem to use the heli version of this for anything and most I see just chuck it out anywhere and put bait over it and hope for the best.
In reply to Post #51
You used to wrap white Wool around the tubing with no Rig on, cast out and leave for 15 mins, bring it back and the wool would have changed colour to the depth it had sunk into the silt.
But it was made totally obsolete when we started to copy paternoster Rigs Sea anglers use over Rocks, Weed, and estuary Silt etc...............
The Lead fixed on the end of the solid Boom made to any length you wanted to match the lake bottom, but still a full running Lead set up at the other end – light years ahead of any Heli and Chods, but forgotten about by most .
~ On the River section I fish I hear others moaning about loosing Leads in the Rocks, I've yet to loose one in five years! I wonder why
You used to wrap white Wool around the tubing with no Rig on, cast out and leave for 15 mins, bring it back and the wool would have changed colour to the depth it had sunk into the silt.
But it was made totally obsolete when we started to copy paternoster Rigs Sea anglers use over Rocks, Weed, and estuary Silt etc...............
The Lead fixed on the end of the solid Boom made to any length you wanted to match the lake bottom, but still a full running Lead set up at the other end – light years ahead of any Heli and Chods, but forgotten about by most .
~ On the River section I fish I hear others moaning about loosing Leads in the Rocks, I've yet to loose one in five years! I wonder why
In reply to Post #1
use a lead clip exclusively in all situations naked (no tubing) over weed, gravel, silt. Never had any issues. Use any rig with it, easy to change lead size and also stick a zig on easily if needed. Never been bothered about following trends so not fished the heli
use a lead clip exclusively in all situations naked (no tubing) over weed, gravel, silt. Never had any issues. Use any rig with it, easy to change lead size and also stick a zig on easily if needed. Never been bothered about following trends so not fished the heli
@ in the margin
Could not agree more. Glad I'm not the only one
Could not agree more. Glad I'm not the only one
In reply to Post #53
Not really a trend. I imagine sea anglers using variations of the helicopter set up pre-dates leadclips by several decades at least
But if you're confident with what you use that's all that matters
Not really a trend. I imagine sea anglers using variations of the helicopter set up pre-dates leadclips by several decades at least
But if you're confident with what you use that's all that matters
In reply to Post #52
I'll be honest and say I never really understood this white wool/cotton test. What would be the difference in a lead pulling the cotton 12 inches vertically down into the silt to the lead sinking 2 inches into the silt and the cotton laying in the top 2 inches of silt for 10 inches as it goes back towards the lead? Both would be stained in a similar way and the depth of silt makes no difference when the depth of the lake is considered?
I may not have explained this well, but come from an experience of years on a deep silted but shallow estate lake.
I'll be honest and say I never really understood this white wool/cotton test. What would be the difference in a lead pulling the cotton 12 inches vertically down into the silt to the lead sinking 2 inches into the silt and the cotton laying in the top 2 inches of silt for 10 inches as it goes back towards the lead? Both would be stained in a similar way and the depth of silt makes no difference when the depth of the lake is considered?
I may not have explained this well, but come from an experience of years on a deep silted but shallow estate lake.
In reply to Post #41
I ended up going back to the running paternoster lead link in that situation.
In the blanket weed I might use a rotten bottom.
I ended up going back to the running paternoster lead link in that situation.
In the blanket weed I might use a rotten bottom.
In reply to Post #57
Poor hooking potential and poor indication.
Poor hooking potential and poor indication.
In reply to Post #50
I rarely meet another angler that uses as light a bobbin as possible to achieve good bite indication.
I rarely meet another angler that uses as light a bobbin as possible to achieve good bite indication.
In reply to Post #59
I rarely meet other anglers, I like to be left alone to blank in piece with the lightest bobbin I can get away with.
I rarely meet other anglers, I like to be left alone to blank in piece with the lightest bobbin I can get away with.
In reply to Post #58
I found the opposite.
Being able to watch the fish with sight on the pick-up, very light indicator, (go old school, Optonics bobbins, or Washing up liquid bottle tops)
Very loose bait runner, or even open bail arm and line clip in front of reel.
Although you do have to strike rather than self hooking 
I found the opposite.
Being able to watch the fish with sight on the pick-up, very light indicator, (go old school, Optonics bobbins, or Washing up liquid bottle tops)
Very loose bait runner, or even open bail arm and line clip in front of reel.
Although you do have to strike rather than self hooking
In reply to Post #56
After reading about the wool trick in a magazine many years ago and being brought up on silty lakes, i tried it and came up with the same conclusion as you. It does stain far further back than the depth of the silt
@ post 55 yes noj its certainly not a new thing we was using heli rigs or as we called them silt rigs way before lead clips were thought of i was still at school and even before i knew what a hair rig was!
After reading about the wool trick in a magazine many years ago and being brought up on silty lakes, i tried it and came up with the same conclusion as you. It does stain far further back than the depth of the silt
@ post 55 yes noj its certainly not a new thing we was using heli rigs or as we called them silt rigs way before lead clips were thought of i was still at school and even before i knew what a hair rig was!
In reply to Post #62
I always found the smell of the silt more important than the depth. And if you pull in a few bloodworm then jackpot.
I always found the smell of the silt more important than the depth. And if you pull in a few bloodworm then jackpot.
In reply to Post #63
Yes it becomes a habit to smell baits end tackle etc after winding in
Yes it becomes a habit to smell baits end tackle etc after winding in
In reply to Post #56
With rig tubing it's a useless exercise as you say. But if you use a ridged stem 12" - 18" long with the Lead bonded into the end, and the wool tightly wrapped all the way up Or a white Pipe Cleaner - it works a treat
With rig tubing it's a useless exercise as you say. But if you use a ridged stem 12" - 18" long with the Lead bonded into the end, and the wool tightly wrapped all the way up Or a white Pipe Cleaner - it works a treat
In reply to Post #61
Being able to watch the fish on pick up and strike would for me mean no bite alarm or bobbin needed.
Also you were responding to spods post about fishing in blanket weed, a situation that I've rarely if ever been able to watch the fish pick up the hook bait.
Being able to watch the fish on pick up and strike would for me mean no bite alarm or bobbin needed.
Also you were responding to spods post about fishing in blanket weed, a situation that I've rarely if ever been able to watch the fish pick up the hook bait.
In reply to Post #1
Anyone messed around with the new Nash run clips yet? Running rig set up on a clip but becomes semi-fixed when the line is under tension . . .looks like a simple but effective solution to me - have some on order
Anyone messed around with the new Nash run clips yet? Running rig set up on a clip but becomes semi-fixed when the line is under tension . . .looks like a simple but effective solution to me - have some on order
In reply to Post #67
I like the idea. But I worry if the lead doesn't eject, can the clip and the lead get locked on the line 15 feet up the line? They do look interesting though, especially for adjustable zigs.
I like the idea. But I worry if the lead doesn't eject, can the clip and the lead get locked on the line 15 feet up the line? They do look interesting though, especially for adjustable zigs.
In reply to Post #69
Matthew Collins has done a video on them. They do look a good design.
Matthew Collins has done a video on them. They do look a good design.
In reply to Post #70
Gemma Collins has knocked out a few videos too.
These things are gimmicks, realise when you are being sold a heap of ***** that you never needed that so called fixed a problem that never existed in the first place.
After all up until today no one ever caught a Carp 🙄
Gemma Collins has knocked out a few videos too.
These things are gimmicks, realise when you are being sold a heap of ***** that you never needed that so called fixed a problem that never existed in the first place.
After all up until today no one ever caught a Carp 🙄
In reply to Post #71
Not so sure about that - I like the convenience of clips but the nature of them does mean the weight of the lead can be used against you / recognised by cute fish easily. Pure running rigs are a solution but they have their own issues in terms of casting / slack lines etc so actually think these are worth a punt for all lazy clip anglers . . .going to trial them on my barbel set up next season
Not so sure about that - I like the convenience of clips but the nature of them does mean the weight of the lead can be used against you / recognised by cute fish easily. Pure running rigs are a solution but they have their own issues in terms of casting / slack lines etc so actually think these are worth a punt for all lazy clip anglers . . .going to trial them on my barbel set up next season
I like to use a lead clip with a quick clip.......you have the initial semi fixed set up then free running once the fish moves off......best of both worlds IMO.......
In reply to Post #73
Personally i think that makes a death rig. But I see the likes of Korda promoting it. Why not use a running rig with a tadpole bead?
Personally i think that makes a death rig. But I see the likes of Korda promoting it. Why not use a running rig with a tadpole bead?
In reply to Post #73
Soz not sure what you are on about here? The difference between this and Kordas previous use of a standard clip (set up to be free running by crimping the swivel in the clip casing so that it can pull free under minimal tension) is the weight of the lead only coming into play when the fish pulls away / makes the main line taught - unless I'm being dim no other clip set up currently works like this . . .
Soz not sure what you are on about here? The difference between this and Kordas previous use of a standard clip (set up to be free running by crimping the swivel in the clip casing so that it can pull free under minimal tension) is the weight of the lead only coming into play when the fish pulls away / makes the main line taught - unless I'm being dim no other clip set up currently works like this . . .
In reply to Post #73
You effectively stop the lead clip ejecting the lead, and because the bore is so small, can easily jam up with any weed, or even silt, having the lead stuck up the line.
A lead on a run ring , fished on a tight line, becomes a bolt rig. The large bore run ring also means the lead can run freely up and down the line in the event of a break-off, coming over the broken end, where the lead clip may stick.
You effectively stop the lead clip ejecting the lead, and because the bore is so small, can easily jam up with any weed, or even silt, having the lead stuck up the line.
A lead on a run ring , fished on a tight line, becomes a bolt rig. The large bore run ring also means the lead can run freely up and down the line in the event of a break-off, coming over the broken end, where the lead clip may stick.
Nice opinions but I have NEVER had 1 issue with this rig and I have been using it for over 20yrs........ 
Started off paternoster style and still my favourite method today, more direct contact with the fish for me. Played around with lead clips and I find they have far too much movement before a fish hits the lead, beep, beep 
Run rigs, nothing but tangles for me, sat behind a rod for hours on end you want 100% confidence that you bait is presented correctly. Saying that when I used running rigs I was mainly using long braid hooklinks and had far too many tangles for my liking, thanks, but no thanks,
I tried some of the Korum run rigs recently on my Barbel rods, great big dirty things, removed!
Fox used to make the carp safety beads I think they were? so close but so far for me, too soft but the idea was there, under a certain amount of pressure the ring would pop off the sleeve leaving quite a large ring for the line to run through, but like a semi fixed run rig set up
Run rigs, nothing but tangles for me, sat behind a rod for hours on end you want 100% confidence that you bait is presented correctly. Saying that when I used running rigs I was mainly using long braid hooklinks and had far too many tangles for my liking, thanks, but no thanks,
I tried some of the Korum run rigs recently on my Barbel rods, great big dirty things, removed!
Fox used to make the carp safety beads I think they were? so close but so far for me, too soft but the idea was there, under a certain amount of pressure the ring would pop off the sleeve leaving quite a large ring for the line to run through, but like a semi fixed run rig set up
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