Evening all...

I've used Nutrabaits for many years having no problems at all, I know they had some issues 5 or so years ago but in the main the bait never let me down...

In recent years I've noticed the bait changing colour, being a lot lighter than it once was, I switched to the shelf life boilies following advice from Nutrabaits HQ... telling me that the shelf Life were exactly the same as the frozen bait (which I'd used for years) but with a little preservative

This for me was terrible advice the shelf life baits seemed very cheap with no content and in no stretch of the imagination anywhere near the quality of the frozen bait ( even at its worse)
.

My question is this is it just me that's noticing this does anyone else have a similar story

In reply to Post #1
Sorry but NB these days are a shadow of their former selves when Bill used to run it. They've cheapened the products beyond all recognition imo.

Agree, nothing I would trust using in their range anymore. Which is a real shame.

In reply to Post #1
nice first post slagging company but in this case I have to agree... would rather use maize all season than used that...

In reply to Post #4
Didn't mean to seem like I'm slagging them off, just trying to see if it's just me... and it would seem not

In reply to Post #5
Is it possible they changed fishmeal? Or maybe another ingredient? I will just say that having worked with bait for quite some time and having seen fishmeal change several times from the same suppliers in a year it is completely plausible that it's not their fault? I haven't actually seen their bait for years so I can't confirm if this is the case or not

In reply to Post #6
Is it possible they changed fishmeal? Or maybe another ingredient?

The business was bought by a company that then tried to modernize how it was run prior by Bill.
That is the normal Corporate BS, improve efficiency and maximise profit margins, and over a brain storming session, thought that 'improving' some base / boilies mixes, etc... cough ...cough ... probably for the rolling machines and/or company profit benefit, rather than the angler end product or fish.

My take on it is this, Ingredients wise, could probably have reduced some, by a little or a lot, or removed it completely, depending on seasonal costs to make.

You could trust Bill for quality and consistency over the whole time he ran it.
This lot ruined the brand in under 12 months. Like most after the takeover I tried to buy certain nutrabaits favourites, and the whole Nutrabaits supply just dried up globally.

Customers had to go elsewhere for products. I have only used one nutrabaits product since in my home made baits.

In reply to Post #7
Still have a couple of original nutrabaits flavours for special hookbaits. The later stuff was rubbish

In reply to Post #7
Seems your info is correct Nutrabaits was dissolved in 2019 and the new company is now called, Nutrabaits international limited. As per companies house. Bill and the guys who created the special blend are no longer associated with the new set up, so yes this is by the looks of things a new brand and not even close to the brand I trusted

Let's put it this way...

...I would not use the company today under any circumstances.

In reply to Post #11
It seems that is a response most are giving, spoke to a friend of mine recently who bought liver supreme and pink pepper pops from a local tackle shop. The presentation of them was quite alarming, more egg looking than round and incomplete spheres with gaps/cracking... Nutrabaits were a premium brand back in the day ... not no more just another cheap looking bait yet still at top dollar... sad to see such a mighty brand become such a disappointment

What a shame. Nutrabaits was undoubtedly one of THE top baits back in the day and was always associated to high quality baits. Another company that appears to be a former shadow of itself... Seems to unfortunately be common practice with a lot of companies these days...

In reply to Post #13
Even their flagship bait, BFM, has changed and its not even made to the original recipe. Only Rollin Baits sell the original mix which contains capelin fishmeal. Apparently Rollin Baits are the only company in the UK that source direct from the manufacturer and have a deal so its exclusive to them unless anyone knows of any UK sources?

Was the first bait company I used as a “proper” carp angler when I started. Loved Trigga. Just got to expensive for me in the end and started using local/mates baits for a few years. Bought some Trigga for old times sake a few years ago and it just didn't seem the same to me

Shame really as Nutrabaits were a premium brand with good quality baits. Now it seems they are premium prices but not premium quality

In reply to Post #14
Easier to knock up yourself, just change the sardine and anchovy and capelin for lt and salmon meal. Bfm just followed the Premier formula of 50% fishmeal, 25% birdfood and 25% milk proteins. Not a revolutionary bait by any means, just Dave Moore copying premier's spiced fish.

I fished alongside Bill in the 80s and remember paying a fortune for some of the early milk blends and additives - but was happy to do so. Always great baits but them not selling direct meant they couldn't compte with those that did.

I've received an email today from a former employee of Nutrabaits. Despite the claims over the last few years that all baits are rolled in house, he tells me that all shelve life baits are rolled by copdock mill to one of their standard recipes with a premix from Nutrabaits added to it.. the elusive trigga liquid (I've spent a fortune on) is nothing more than baf liver hydroslate. He does assure me that the freezer bait is a decent mix however nothing close to the original recipe . Who's the fool in this? Them for trying to con us with cheap bait on the back of a mighty reputation? Or is hard working folk for buying the stuff... that's me done with them for sure

I think Trigarol was what made Trigga.
Would not touch Nutrabaits products these days, completely different.
They are selling from their good reputation of the past, those of us that remember the old stuff know. There's many new anglers that don't know.

In reply to Post #19
And the new anglers will probably follow other bait companies so I don't see this Nutrabait reincarnation lasting.

In reply to Post #19
What bothers me is Nutrabaits was set up with carp anglers in mind, Bill along with skiddy and the lads were all carp anglers and used the bait themselves, for me that was good enough.. whilst on a season at deepings last year I met up with their salesman who also was fishing there.. when asked about what bait he used.. he told me it was his own take on bfm. A few extras which he had added ... that's when the alarm bells started ringing for me.. if the salesman doesn't trust the bait how the hell can we

In reply to Post #18
You sure you are not said former disgruntled employee?

In reply to Post #22
He could be Bill himself doesnt change the fact that their bait is rubbish now... It was funny how some sponsored anglers were convincing us on here how nothing changed till they cut them of.

In reply to Post #22
Hahaha couldn't do it mate, gag reflex isn't great

In reply to Post #24
Reading This has put me right off using nutrabaits now,used to love using the ingredients to make up a bait that maybe no one else would be using.I'm eBaying the lot when I get home.

In reply to Post #25
I've got some tech spice shelfies I've had for a while not had the chance to use them. Now my confidence in them has taken a knock. Are they worth using or not. My time on the bank these days is extremely limited, don't want to sit there blanking over a crap bait. They were a great bait for cold weather back in the day.

In reply to Post #25
Maybe that's the idea to put you off. Face facts they have the nutrabaits product knowledge and if not how hard is it to put a good bait together. Google is your friend. So why would they produce poor quality and lose customers. They wouldn't.

I used nutrabaits for over 20 years and had a lot of confidence in some of there baits , I wouldnt use them now , far better baits out there to use.

I used Nutrabaits from the early 1990's until Bill Cottam left with confidence.

Now I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole.

In reply to Post #19
Do nutrabaits still list ingredients on their base mixes? If so has this changed? I know this doesn't tell the whole story but would he interesting to know.

Is Nutrabaits still as bad as most suggest here? Their branding seems to have improved massively, they have tons of stockists across europe. People (a lot of people) must still be using their baits....

Sure, its not going to be the same as when Bill was there, but is it showing signs of recovery?

In reply to Post #30
And yeah, they do on the base mixes at least

In reply to Post #31
No

In reply to Post #31
Can't give you a honest comment on the new stuff not used it. Used a lot of there stuff in the past and for me they were known for quality products.

As I see it, if they have sold it off they would have handed alll the suppliers, ingredients and recipe lists over so you would expect the same?

Where Nutrabaits got it all wrong for me, they didn't do all the bling, fancy packing and over hyped bollox that sells bait to the sheep, I think they stuck to their principles of quality, but in a market now dominated by whoever can shout that loudest I think they lost their popularity due to them sticking with their trusted products. Once a fish catcher, always a fish catcher for me

Sign of the times

In reply to Post #33
No to which question!?

In reply to Post #35
To all of them except first one. So yes to first one no to second one

In reply to Post #34
Good point that mate. That's how it has seemed to me as well. Ok they may not have moved with the times like some of the leading bait companies but that doesn't necessarily mean they're now crap!
I never used Trigga back in the day or anything but obviously knew the reputation. I've used their pink pepper pop ups for years and theyve nicked me bites from all over the place, so when I decided to roll my own winter bait for a bit of fun, I decided to give Nutrabaits a whirl.
Due to lockdown etc the local waters to me with a chance of a winter bite have remained closed, so not actually managed to test them out. But in terms of how the baits turned out in texture, colour, the way they break down and how the flavours linger, I was very happy.

To me, a lot of the mud slinging seems to come with people that were close to Bill, or who did have some bad experience when Nutra seemed to go through a little bad patch about 5 or 6 years ago with people saying the quality of the bait seemed to change. Which can happen and has happened to a lot of companies. Ok the logistics side of things sounds like it was terrible at first once they were taken over, but that's clearly recovered now.
I'm just curious to know if the people knocking it are only the same few disgruntled people and if it has made a bit if a recovery.
I suppose the only way to find out is to bite the bullet and splash the cash, and see how I do.

In reply to Post #37
yes they are, majority of their product is overpriced crap now... Products with same name are not the products they were before... they will still catch carp, a piece of crocs catches carp but for the price they are selling it it is crap. Rolled and used enough of their gear to know that.

In reply to Post #38
How many times have we seen it over the years, when the man behind the brand is passionate and produce very good things. The company then changes hands and the ideas change with it. Never the same again. What I do know for fact is that they did produce some very good ingredients under big bill. Many of the things I use today have roots from those days. One other thing to remember, if you took bills basemix and made it today, then used eggs, rolled it well, used the same levels of milks and additives, you would have baits well over the 6-7 quid mark that people seem obsessed with. The consumers have been driving the market down, you either pay more or you get less. As an example, minamino is 4 times the price it used to be, glm probably 5 times! What is a company to do these days? Do you make bait for what people want or stick to your roots and produce the bait you want to produce. Tricky one isn't it. It would seem that nutrabaits isn't the brand it once was but when you get to the nitty gritty with most long standing bait firms, things are very similar!

I wasn't overly impressed at all with the last few bits I had from Nutrabaits, for the price of their gear you expect a very top quality product.

In reply to Post #39
Someone speaking some sense at last.

It's hard to pinpoint exactly what peoples gripe is. If you follow the negative comments on this thread and others, it's generally the same few people. At first it seems they are saying the bait is diabolical, the next the argument seems to be that it is over priced. Then maybe a combination of both problems.

Perhaps the incredible baits Bill was producing back in the day were either eventually levelled in terms of their brilliance and therefore became par for the course for a bit, and
/or they were fairly unique but became unsustainable when the market became saturated with companies making decent enough bait.
Theres a difference between it not being what it used to be, and being absolute rubbish.

Ok there are probably better bait companies out there, but theres probably only a few. Theres a lot of companies producing 'decent' bait and until my tests make me think otherwise, that's what I'll assume for Nutrabaits

In reply to Post #40
How long ago was this? And what was it that made you think it was substandard?

I'm not trying to be argumentative I genuinely want to know. As I say I wasnt a user of anything but their pop ups for a while so I cant compare nutrabaits now and then, but I see a few people saying they're unimpressed but not elaborating.

I'm gradually trying to learn more about bait in-depth so I'm genuinely curious

In reply to Post #42
A few interesting posts mate

I think their quality and unique products were there selling points, I think they were more tailored to home rolling than selling boiled baits myself. Plus the transition in carp fishing from old school home rollers to new school bought baits where people don't have much idea about bait other than it's a round ball

The prices did go up but the if you want that level of quality ingredients it comes at a premium and like mentioned, most people want to pay £5 per KG maximum for fish food

I think a KG of Trigga went up to around £11.99 at one point and that was before most other baits were topping out at that, Mainline etc.

I stopped using them in the end because I could source the ingredients cheaper elsewhere and used others rolled bait

It's a cut throat business the bait game and I guess the question has to be asked, when you can buy boiled baits for £5 per KG why would you want spend a tenner on raw ingredients (I would) to roll yourself or £12 for a KG of shelf life's

Same with the new school carp angler. I don't think they appreciate good bait because they don't know much about bait, it's more than likely dictated by the £?

In reply to Post #44
Pretty much spot on mate!

In reply to Post #39
Bill was Passionate and had a high end quality ethos.
His products Sell very well globally, changes hands, bought out by big corporate company promising great things with baits, supply chain, and social media,

Cost of living goes up year on year. Business costs the same, fishmeal is in a global short supply, price quadruples over time, same price RRP end product bait.
You do the maths, something has to give to be long term financially viable, and profitable, that is the bottom line.
Make a bait for a price you know you can shift it.
Or stick to your guns and make a better one for more money, but sell less of it.
You pay your money, we make our choices.

In reply to Post #42
I didn't say it was sub-standard, just that I wasn't impressed, there again like a few others on here I was a Nutrabaits customer of old, so the comparison is maybe unfair. When the Trigga was first released it blew everything else out of the water for me, awesome bait.

I decided to go back to it last summer as Nutrabaits re-launched themselves and put in a small order. Granted I only purchased a few "off the shelf" products but a couple of things weren't the same. Pop-ups turned to wafters overnight. Slight waxy texture to the shelfies that didn't show any sign of breaking down after 48 hours, (used to be a much softer bait which I prefer).

Overall I just wasn't blown away and personally I have seen and used bait in the £6 to £7 K a kilo category that I feel is better value for money and possibly superior.

All about opinions I suppose..

I've purchased some shelf life Techni Spice just to use as a high attract, low volume thing for the first few weeks of the season before going onto another brand and a wholesome food bait for the rest of the spring and majority of the season. I am limited to shelf life baits apart from 5kg that I might be able to get in my freezer.

Reason for choosing is because I just think it's different to what many will be doing for the first few weeks when the fish are waking up.
First impressions- smells good. Baits break open and break up ok, not too soft but not so hard that I'd be worried about them breaking down in the water. Texture seems ok.

Couple of pop-ups with hooks in currently in a glass, let's see how long they stay up for

Will probably keep a bag of it back as I sure the chub and barbel will love it in the summer.

In reply to Post #44
You're right about it being a cut-throat industry. I'm sure I read years ago that after a certain amount of time, 9 out of 10 bait companies will hit a peak and then gradually lose money until the: vanish, change tack, try and hoodwink people with big reputation but low grade ingredients

In reply to Post #49
I bet that could be said for most of the products that are available in carpfishing, but a lot of quality bait firms have had it hard or gone under

For me certain big manufacturers have managed to condition the anglers more than the anglers have conditioned the carp! As soon as something is released with all the hype behind it they flock in their masses like sheep for the must have bog roll bag that is obviously going to put them more carp on the bank!

I think it's become more of a camping and a look at me pastime than it has about catching big old carp as a personal passion?

It's full of sheep nowadays and that's why companies will always rise with the tide and fall with it, bait, tackle or whatever is carpy!

I posted this before, a bloke I know used to have a tackle shop, His passion was bait, rolled his own and stocked a few of the popular brands. In the end he was fed up, he was sick of the market trends, as soon as a company would release a new hyped up bait in a foil bag everybody was asking for it, he would stock the freezers up for them, few months later, everybody was asking for the next new wonder bait and he was left with freezers full of bait that he could not shift, other than dropping the price and selling at a loss.

We are in an era where a lot of people know **** all about bait other than they are round balls and they change it more than their underpants. Same can said for the level of angling capability too, it's full of sheep and trends set by Manufacturers, I mean sales companies flogging Chinese crap to the masses fronted by some ****ing over energised idiots doing the hard sell for them. The sheep are just getting continually conditioned, cannot think for themselves anymore, they just follow, £££££££££££££. Baaaaaaaaaa

In reply to Post #50
Yep summed it up nicely Scozza

In reply to Post #50
Glad you've got that off your chest mate

Haha. In all seriousness you're spot on. I've been thinking about this a lot recently, how the fundamentals of carp fishing are very easy. You need a rig that ideally resets itself, with a sharp hook in a presentable spot in an area you know the carp are in. That's basically it. There are variables of course, but having the latest wonder bait, or for that matter the latest bivvy, stove, tools or whatever other gimmicks there are does not alter those variables! Your hook bait needs to be where the carp are, and ideally the conditions are such that they feel like eating!

Bait is a big thing and a small thing. I know someone that caught one in france off the top on a fag butt. Carp dont have arms, they use their mouths to investigate. You can nick a bite on practically anything (especially in early spring when it's like lure fishing with bright singles in some places)
But finding a decent, sustained food source is something else. Without doubt the best way all round is to learn a bit about the science behind bait, go through some trial and error with making your own, and then arrive at something you have no reason to alter.
I am stuck for two reasons - one I could I am sure put together something half decent, spend a week in March rolling it all and be set for a good portion of the season. But the other side of the coin is I wouldn't be content with half decent. I am one of life's great over thinkers, I know for a fact I would do my own head in if I picked up a book about bait. I'd never know when to stop!
The other part is I have a tiny freezer so have to use shelfies.

In reply to Post #52
Spot on with all of that for me mate

When it comes to bait debates one simple thing to consider always, plastic sweetcorn, that is never right but it works in the ways you mention the fag butt

You can nick a bite on practically anything (especially in early spring when it's like lure fishing with bright singles in some places)
But finding a decent, sustained food source is something else.

The food source has been my preferred style for many years, otherwise for me your hoping for some luck. I like to try and stick the odds in my favour!

Consistently catching carp is something else and that is why a quality boilie has been my choice for a long time

There's a problem though and it's called angling pressure and idiots

Angling pressure seriously changes carp habits and a top quality bait is not always the answer, they have seen it all and that is why different things and something new can work so well

Couple this with idiots spodding out the granny art of it with hemp, pellets and pigeon conditioner etc. by the bucket load, Mr carp can happily graze on these items without the fear of getting hooked, to the point it changes the fishing again and you end up messing about with 10mm bits and pieces to get a bite for something that could fit an orange in its mouth!

VERY brief summary but I guess you can see where I'm coming from mate?



Ps. It's good to be a thinker otherwise you become one dimensional and even numb. I bet all of us from where we started out fishing to our last fishing session will have gone full circle, round and round and what was once was, is far from the reality. That's the beauty of this magnificent pastime, we are where we are now, nobody is right

Imho Nutrabaits no longer exisits. The long and short of it sadly. Big Bill now uses RG baits, if the company was true to the core values of Nutrabaits, then surely Bill would have carried on using the products?

The popular old 90's bait firms such as Richworth, Dave Thorpe, Solar Bait, Premier Baits etc, have all changed to a certain degree over the years, but Nutrabaits demise seems to have been a lot worse and chaotic. A real shame.

Whatever that muck is packaged inside the BFM bags and cranberry nutrafruit bottles nowadays... is beyond me.

In reply to Post #54
I have got rid of all my liquids and pop ups from nutrabaits through eBay and all I've got left is around 2.5/3 kilos of trigga ice and I'm using them to prevail the canal a week before I'm on there.
I'm now trying dna slk so fingers crossed I can get another 30 out of there.

Sam and Pete did a very good interview / podcast with Bill Cottam recently on their Chronicles podcast; worth a listen for sure..

In reply to Post #56
With part 2 soon...
Thought bill was very honest considering he was a bait maker or rather a bait seller
In such
Half the things they sold he didn't care what made them work or how only they did

Much respect to him

In reply to Post #57
I enjoyed that podcast looking forward to part 2 soon

You lot must of listened to it before they took it down. Was there anything on it that might of been the reason why they had to take it down?

In reply to Post #59
Nothing untoward from what I heard at all
He didn't slag any one off

It's still on the podcast player I use

In reply to Post #60
What podcast platform is this Mark? All the podcast platforms I use Sam has put up a holding message saying they've had to take it down.

Can't think of anything on there that could have caused a problem. It was a good podcast. Sam and Pete are producing the best content going at the minute imo.

Is Pete just a lurker on here these days?!

In reply to Post #61
The one I use is just called podcast player with a purple aerial
I'll double check it's still there

Just checked it has gone ..