I wonder if there is a trick to tie very short section of supple braid for Combination rigs. I've managed to tie down to 1 - 2 cm but for pop ups I want to be even shorter.
In reply to Post #1
What knot are you using?
What knot are you using?
In reply to Post #2
Alberto knot
Alberto knot
In reply to Post #3
Albright?
Albright?
In reply to Post #1
Can't get my head round why people want to tie two diffrent materials together to form a hooklink. It's not like we've got enough knots between us and a hooked fish is it. Just adding another weak spot if you ask me. Why not just use a coated braid? If your looking for a stiff boom section I cant recommend Rigmarole Hydrolink strongly enough. They all achieve the same thing with out extra knotage. You can get the supple section as short as you want with ease. Just a thought...
Can't get my head round why people want to tie two diffrent materials together to form a hooklink. It's not like we've got enough knots between us and a hooked fish is it. Just adding another weak spot if you ask me. Why not just use a coated braid? If your looking for a stiff boom section I cant recommend Rigmarole Hydrolink strongly enough. They all achieve the same thing with out extra knotage. You can get the supple section as short as you want with ease. Just a thought...
I guess those knots have many names but I know them like this:
LINKY POO™ Albright
LINKY POO™ Alberto or Modified Albright
And for the Combination of materials vs Coated Braid. I guess is a confidence thing. I use them with Fluoro main line with Running setup.
LINKY POO™ Albright
LINKY POO™ Alberto or Modified Albright
And for the Combination of materials vs Coated Braid. I guess is a confidence thing. I use them with Fluoro main line with Running setup.
In reply to Post #6
Have you considered tying the combi with a loop and using it multi-slip D style? It should be possible to tie it pretty short with practice.
Have you considered tying the combi with a loop and using it multi-slip D style? It should be possible to tie it pretty short with practice.
In reply to Post #1
Loop and boom rig probably the easiest in terms of small braided hooklink length 'consistency' . . .crimped boom end loop or tie to oval / circular rig ring, doubled up braid (ensure you measure exactly the same length of braid every time before you double it over) with overhand knot at boilie stop end - this does not have to that accurate at this stage as once you've ascertained hair length just adjust the number of knotless knot wraps you make on the shank (more or less wraps) before pushing the braid back through the hook eye - job done.
Only limitation is hook size - the bigger the hook / shorter the supple section is, the harder it is to 'loop' onto the boom end as its restricted by the overall length of the hook. . .tbf with practice I reckon you could also get pretty short using standard Albright knot (giving you more hook end bait attachment options) but this takes patience and practice!
Loop and boom rig probably the easiest in terms of small braided hooklink length 'consistency' . . .crimped boom end loop or tie to oval / circular rig ring, doubled up braid (ensure you measure exactly the same length of braid every time before you double it over) with overhand knot at boilie stop end - this does not have to that accurate at this stage as once you've ascertained hair length just adjust the number of knotless knot wraps you make on the shank (more or less wraps) before pushing the braid back through the hook eye - job done.
Only limitation is hook size - the bigger the hook / shorter the supple section is, the harder it is to 'loop' onto the boom end as its restricted by the overall length of the hook. . .tbf with practice I reckon you could also get pretty short using standard Albright knot (giving you more hook end bait attachment options) but this takes patience and practice!
In reply to Post #4
I use the Albright knot for combi rigs (pretty much all I use these days).
With some patience, less than 1cm is easily attainable.
A little tip - Put something over the point of the hook, it makes things easier (and less bloody
I use the Albright knot for combi rigs (pretty much all I use these days).
With some patience, less than 1cm is easily attainable.
A little tip - Put something over the point of the hook, it makes things easier (and less bloody
I use an Albright knot and can get them super short, the trick is to have the eye of the hook just through your loop of fluoro as you whip down with the braid, then before you pull the knot tight slide the knot right down to the hook keeping the Fluoro and braid tag end tight, then pull the knot tight, takes a little practice but that's the best way I've found.
In reply to Post #10
I'm doing like you described. But when I tighten the knot supple part extend by few mm. I guess need more practice.
I'm doing like you described. But when I tighten the knot supple part extend by few mm. I guess need more practice.
In reply to Post #11
I use an albright too and can get them pretty short - but the way the knot works you will always create some slack at the hook end.
One ‘cheat' is to add a line aligner afterwards to close the ‘gap' from the end of the nylon. Obviously different length line aligners are available.
I use an albright too and can get them pretty short - but the way the knot works you will always create some slack at the hook end.
One ‘cheat' is to add a line aligner afterwards to close the ‘gap' from the end of the nylon. Obviously different length line aligners are available.
I found the easiest way to get a really short section is to join the 2 materials first. Then pull the braided section through the hook until the knot is butted up against the eye and then tie a whipping knot.
In reply to Post #13
That is indeed the easiest and most repeatable manner
That is indeed the easiest and most repeatable manner
In reply to Post #13
I use that approach to make a combo multi rig
I use that approach to make a combo multi rig
My take was I used to be manic about getting the braid as short as possible, and about 10mm was about the most consistent I got, however and I have used this extensively over the last few years, I now look for at least an inch. The short ones are essentially a Ronnie but longer ones with a proper aligner I have found so much better. Enough pivot to allow a bottom feeding fish to take the bait in (a wafter for me) with a friggin great lump of putty on the knot. I don't want the stiff boom in the mouth, I am now purely using as it allows very soft braid to be tangle proof.
The other thing that winds me up, and I have done it ! Is tying loops and Jonnie Mac style hook threading - for me this renders the best bits of the rig useless, even it 15lb braid you are using. 30lb hook section.
25lb boom with figure of 8 loop, Albright knot to Korda supernatural, size 10 barbless wide gape and short shrink tube aligner threaded with needle the proper way. Traditional braid hair with loop and putty over the knot to drop the hook.
I hand sharpen and ‘touch-up' hooks and due to the size of the hooks on easier waters you usually get a couple of fish without the need to change rigs.
I am so against compromise as I get older, and the ability to change hooks (to me) compromises the efficiency of many rigs. I can easily tie 10 up in an hour at home, properly test them and sharpen them and given the low cost of hooks the short lengths of braid used and I am not over fussy on the boom section (trakker, fox, Korda) it's a cheap rig to use all things considered.
Another hing I have learnt is shrink the tube before you sharpen the hook (as steam will rust sharpened hooks) dry thoroughly, coat tip in beeswax lip balm (I find this the cheapest best) pull tight to straighten on a rig board and job done. The Albright is a gift from the baby Jesus and it's not just practice it's about batch tying (for me) you need to fail a couple of times per batch to be confident that those on the boards are bullet proof.
God that's a long waffling post to say don't overthink the shortest section (imo)
The other thing that winds me up, and I have done it ! Is tying loops and Jonnie Mac style hook threading - for me this renders the best bits of the rig useless, even it 15lb braid you are using. 30lb hook section.
25lb boom with figure of 8 loop, Albright knot to Korda supernatural, size 10 barbless wide gape and short shrink tube aligner threaded with needle the proper way. Traditional braid hair with loop and putty over the knot to drop the hook.
I hand sharpen and ‘touch-up' hooks and due to the size of the hooks on easier waters you usually get a couple of fish without the need to change rigs.
I am so against compromise as I get older, and the ability to change hooks (to me) compromises the efficiency of many rigs. I can easily tie 10 up in an hour at home, properly test them and sharpen them and given the low cost of hooks the short lengths of braid used and I am not over fussy on the boom section (trakker, fox, Korda) it's a cheap rig to use all things considered.
Another hing I have learnt is shrink the tube before you sharpen the hook (as steam will rust sharpened hooks) dry thoroughly, coat tip in beeswax lip balm (I find this the cheapest best) pull tight to straighten on a rig board and job done. The Albright is a gift from the baby Jesus and it's not just practice it's about batch tying (for me) you need to fail a couple of times per batch to be confident that those on the boards are bullet proof.
God that's a long waffling post to say don't overthink the shortest section (imo)
In reply to Post #16
PB Products KD Hook in size 4. Gardner Mirage 18 lb mainline used as Fluorocarbon section and random piece of braid (I believe it was from Decathlon, bought for test).
LINKY POO™ Picture
Pop up rig need to be a bit shorter, but I guess this is work in progress.
PB Products KD Hook in size 4. Gardner Mirage 18 lb mainline used as Fluorocarbon section and random piece of braid (I believe it was from Decathlon, bought for test).
LINKY POO™ Picture
Pop up rig need to be a bit shorter, but I guess this is work in progress.
In reply to Post #17
The counterbalance shot on the tag end is something I first saw in Carpworld in an old Keith Moors article.
I have used it a few times for pop ups and it works great.
The counterbalance shot on the tag end is something I first saw in Carpworld in an old Keith Moors article.
I have used it a few times for pop ups and it works great.
In reply to Post #18
I saw it for first time in old Duncan de Gruchy video for Angling Lines.
I saw it for first time in old Duncan de Gruchy video for Angling Lines.
Albright the two materials and then a Snell knot to the hook. can get a soft section that is only a few mm
In reply to Post #8
Not if you loop it from the other end. Can pretty much get away with tiny loops...as hook size is irrelevant
Not if you loop it from the other end. Can pretty much get away with tiny loops...as hook size is irrelevant
The business end, size 4 Tic wide gape, sharpened.
Albright knot with doubled over braid to form a slip D, allows easy hook changes.
Double overhand loop to form the knot using 30lb amnesia. Seems more reliable than a figure of eight knot, especially in the heavier breaking strains. Always try a few options and test.
30lb amnesia for the boom.
Albright knot with doubled over braid to form a slip D, allows easy hook changes.
Double overhand loop to form the knot using 30lb amnesia. Seems more reliable than a figure of eight knot, especially in the heavier breaking strains. Always try a few options and test.
30lb amnesia for the boom.
What length of exposed supple material would you say is optimal between the kicker and Albright knot?
Or another way of asking is; how much is too much and how much is too little?
Having recently switched to tying and using this rig I’m still experimenting. I’m using it as a slip-D multi with size4 hook.
Or another way of asking is; how much is too much and how much is too little?
Having recently switched to tying and using this rig I’m still experimenting. I’m using it as a slip-D multi with size4 hook.
In reply to Post #23
It's very personal and takes some experimenting. I prefer it somewhere between 5 and 10mm. Any longer and I'm questioning if it's going to tangle.
It's very personal and takes some experimenting. I prefer it somewhere between 5 and 10mm. Any longer and I'm questioning if it's going to tangle.
In reply to Post #23
I don't know why people bother tieing two materials together with a knot that can be very unreliable.
You can get the very same outcome (better imo) using a coated braid with a figure of 8 knot tied both ends and the coating stripped back just under the knot at one end or further down the coated braid if you need more length
If you need a stiffer boom use a stiffer coated braid, you want more supple use a softer one or even a thick leader braid works really well.
All that scaffolding and complexity does nothing to catch fish. Just lines the pockets of a few brands
I don't know why people bother tieing two materials together with a knot that can be very unreliable.
You can get the very same outcome (better imo) using a coated braid with a figure of 8 knot tied both ends and the coating stripped back just under the knot at one end or further down the coated braid if you need more length
If you need a stiffer boom use a stiffer coated braid, you want more supple use a softer one or even a thick leader braid works really well.
All that scaffolding and complexity does nothing to catch fish. Just lines the pockets of a few brands
In reply to Post #25
I find that when you go for a stiffer coated outer material you will often find that the inner braid has more memory in it so will not be as supple and can often sit up slightly.
I have never had a Albright knot go, so cant see why it would be seen as a unreliable knot. Does take some skill to get right but one of the better knots for this application imo
I find that when you go for a stiffer coated outer material you will often find that the inner braid has more memory in it so will not be as supple and can often sit up slightly.
I have never had a Albright knot go, so cant see why it would be seen as a unreliable knot. Does take some skill to get right but one of the better knots for this application imo
In reply to Post #25
If you are worried about an Albright coming undone consider either a Rizutto finish with the tag end (a simple whipped lock) and/or a tiny dab of superglue.
I’ve never had one come apart and have caught some big fish on them.
If you are worried about an Albright coming undone consider either a Rizutto finish with the tag end (a simple whipped lock) and/or a tiny dab of superglue.
I’ve never had one come apart and have caught some big fish on them.
In reply to Post #27
I have previously done a single overhand knot and blobbed the tag end, then tightened the alright down until the overhand snugs up to the back of the knot.
With two pullers and testing to destruction it makes it bulletproof.
I have previously done a single overhand knot and blobbed the tag end, then tightened the alright down until the overhand snugs up to the back of the knot.
With two pullers and testing to destruction it makes it bulletproof.
For me a black amnesia or stiff flouro boom is far more reliable than a stripped back coated braid. And you can use different braids depending on your needs. I use really supple when using pva and stiffer when casting with just the hookbait. Coated braid tangles too often when I cast distance even when hitting the clip and sooner or later the coating breaks at the knot.
In reply to Post #23
I tied some of these rigs up the other day , I followed Darrell Pecks advice to the letter using his 4 turn Albright knot with doubled over braid, it was very strong , but I didn't like the way the hook hung when picked up from the micro swivel, the doubled over braid recommended seemed too stiff to allow the hook to hang down ! No matter where I had the loop opposite the barb as recommended by Darrell or further down the shank , it just didn't seem to work very well . He catches a lot of fish on this rig but it didn't seem to have very good rig mechanics to me ? Anyone else tried or used it using the components he recommends?
I tied some of these rigs up the other day , I followed Darrell Pecks advice to the letter using his 4 turn Albright knot with doubled over braid, it was very strong , but I didn't like the way the hook hung when picked up from the micro swivel, the doubled over braid recommended seemed too stiff to allow the hook to hang down ! No matter where I had the loop opposite the barb as recommended by Darrell or further down the shank , it just didn't seem to work very well . He catches a lot of fish on this rig but it didn't seem to have very good rig mechanics to me ? Anyone else tried or used it using the components he recommends?
In reply to Post #30
Thinking out loud: Is the braid more supple when wet? So might hang better?
Thinking out loud: Is the braid more supple when wet? So might hang better?
In reply to Post #30
Dont test it by holding the swivel. Stick a boilie on it and it comes alive.
It is a rig that works really well. I use a tungsten bead at the end of the boom to help drag the hook into the right area to help prevent ejection.
Dont test it by holding the swivel. Stick a boilie on it and it comes alive.
It is a rig that works really well. I use a tungsten bead at the end of the boom to help drag the hook into the right area to help prevent ejection.
In reply to Post #23
I tied some of these rigs up the other day , I followed Darrell Pecks advice to the letter using his 4 turn Albright knot with doubled over braid, it was very strong , but I didn't like the way the hook hung when picked up from the micro swivel, the doubled over braid recommended seemed too stiff to allow the hook to hang down ! No matter where I had the loop opposite the barb as recommended by Darrell or further down the shank , it just didn't seem to work very well . He catches a lot of fish on this rig but it didn't seem to have very good rig mechanics to me ? Anyone else tried or used it using the components he recommends?
I tied some of these rigs up the other day , I followed Darrell Pecks advice to the letter using his 4 turn Albright knot with doubled over braid, it was very strong , but I didn't like the way the hook hung when picked up from the micro swivel, the doubled over braid recommended seemed too stiff to allow the hook to hang down ! No matter where I had the loop opposite the barb as recommended by Darrell or further down the shank , it just didn't seem to work very well . He catches a lot of fish on this rig but it didn't seem to have very good rig mechanics to me ? Anyone else tried or used it using the components he recommends?
In reply to Post #31
100% mate. I’ve used Armakord in 30lb for the braided section of a multi combi in the past. I’m convinced it’s the same braid as the ‘slip d braid’, just in a different colour. They both become far more supple in water.
100% mate. I’ve used Armakord in 30lb for the braided section of a multi combi in the past. I’m convinced it’s the same braid as the ‘slip d braid’, just in a different colour. They both become far more supple in water.
In reply to Post #33
Hi mate, that Slip D is pretty wirey out the packet, but you want that if you're going to use the same rig over time. Otherwise you'll end up with something too supple and prone to tangling.
Once tied, get hold of the 'braid' bit and twiddle\twist it around with your fingers.
This will initially loosen it.
Even if you don't do that, over time it will naturally loosen if you keep using the same rig. (as intended)
Personally, I don't use the same one over time and re-tie mine (I tie it different, as I don't like the 'slip' part), and as such, I use the TA Duo Fleck as it's slightly more supple.
FWIW, 'Pecky' discussed it in one of the recent CarpFix Podcasts. Can't rem. which one.
Hi mate, that Slip D is pretty wirey out the packet, but you want that if you're going to use the same rig over time. Otherwise you'll end up with something too supple and prone to tangling.
Once tied, get hold of the 'braid' bit and twiddle\twist it around with your fingers.
This will initially loosen it.
Even if you don't do that, over time it will naturally loosen if you keep using the same rig. (as intended)
Personally, I don't use the same one over time and re-tie mine (I tie it different, as I don't like the 'slip' part), and as such, I use the TA Duo Fleck as it's slightly more supple.
FWIW, 'Pecky' discussed it in one of the recent CarpFix Podcasts. Can't rem. which one.
In reply to Post #35
Thanks for the replies. I'll try it with a boilie and see if it hangs better 👍
Thanks for the replies. I'll try it with a boilie and see if it hangs better 👍
A couple i have just tied up while waiting for the rain to go off so i can get my rods back out.
Top is albright knotted to 25lb amnesia, bottom is looped onto a temu flouro boom.
Top is albright knotted to 25lb amnesia, bottom is looped onto a temu flouro boom.
In reply to Post #37
I have been using the “slip d combi multi Darrell peck wonder rig” almost exclusively for 3 years and my catch rate on my syndi has never been better. Mainly wafters or bottom baits but also the occasional pop up. I’ve had many boat battles and fishing stuck in thick weed and never had any issues with materials snapping or letting me down.
If I’m fishing somewhere slightly softer or at risk of landing in blanket weed etc, I use the ESP tungsten loaded straight through with a double loop in each end and one of them stripped back to the inner core
90% of the time I’m on clear ground or in the edge and for that I use the Korda XT snag leader tied with an albright to thinking anglers duo fleck braid. A small blob of putty about 2 inches from the lead and then a lump on the knot means it always lands how you want and the braid has just enough stiffness to stop tangles
Can’t recommend it enough
I have been using the “slip d combi multi Darrell peck wonder rig” almost exclusively for 3 years and my catch rate on my syndi has never been better. Mainly wafters or bottom baits but also the occasional pop up. I’ve had many boat battles and fishing stuck in thick weed and never had any issues with materials snapping or letting me down.
If I’m fishing somewhere slightly softer or at risk of landing in blanket weed etc, I use the ESP tungsten loaded straight through with a double loop in each end and one of them stripped back to the inner core
90% of the time I’m on clear ground or in the edge and for that I use the Korda XT snag leader tied with an albright to thinking anglers duo fleck braid. A small blob of putty about 2 inches from the lead and then a lump on the knot means it always lands how you want and the braid has just enough stiffness to stop tangles
Can’t recommend it enough
I use a coated braid but I strip back about a 1cm section roughly a cm below the hook leaving a cm of coating on below the hook which helps the hook flip, then a cm gap then the rest of the hooklink is coated if that makes sense 🤔
In reply to Post #39
Well I was about to say something similar, I agree with you 🤝
A basic Slip D rig could perform very well with coated braid stripped on last centimeters, no need more complicated
I would go for KISS approach
Keep
It
Simple
Stupid
🎣
Well I was about to say something similar, I agree with you 🤝
A basic Slip D rig could perform very well with coated braid stripped on last centimeters, no need more complicated
I would go for KISS approach
Keep
It
Simple
Stupid
🎣
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