Did anyone manage to watch it all?

I'm truly impressed they managed to spread 40 minutes of content out over 4 hours. It's a shame everyone doing underwater videos is more obsessed with catching fish for the cameras, than they are with actually testing things.

Did anyone manage to learn anything? I'm still yet to see any fish on any of the underwater films spook away from seeing a rig. The brands like to play this off as showcasing how well camouflaged their rig bits are, but I would like to see a comparison.

I haven't seen a fish spook off a hi vi's pop up either. They often seem to claim they are in the films, whilst the fish feeds 6 inches away from It.

I've no idea about the lake they filmed at, but some of those fish had seriously battered mouths.

https://youtu.be/KNF656ckARY?si=PeTMJsUvxMzisNsS

https://youtu.be/KNF656ckARY?si=PeTMJsUvxMzisNsS

Could have been 5 hours if the showed us what they had for dinner. With a drone.

So tom maker catches everything, the others were struggling, the woman is pregnant, everything was amazing and yes, the fish were circumsized.

Maybe the fact that they just drop the camera in and start catching was the interesting bit, since with those korda video's we always got told that the fish had to get used to the camera being there for days on end.

Maybe all those movies are getting too slick, too over produced with way too much focus on the angling stars, it's all the same sameness. Best one i saw this year was luc de baets just sitting and talking, no drones, no dinners, no juvenile banter. Ahwell

I found the whole thing a snooze fest.

What absolutely does my nut in is when this phrase is used.....

"On the dancefloor".

Please god, no. Stop saying that.

The most mundane drivel I've watched.. I like mozza and his usual stuff but this was terrible.

In reply to Post #5
Did you watch the weird film with Mozza on Balaton with that weider stalker man? That was a seriously odd film, made me feel uncomfortable.

In reply to Post #5
All this wouldn't have been possible without Jon Bannister bringing the concept to Korda, who by the sounds of it, saw pound signs rather than use it to actually test multiple scenarios. Jons got a great podcast out at the moment where he explains how he brought the concept to Korda.

"They've sussed the lead" was a phrase, even back then, that I was very sceptical of. I don't think any fish will ever suss a lead, nor will a Deer come across a hide and think "humans sit in there with guns". They are wary of scenarios, and this wariness will be exacerbated or eradicated by light conditions, the food source, competition for the food source and the risk of predation.

Animals are masters of their own environment, they don't know what a lead is, and what these companies have done is got people to tie themselves in knots by filling the pockets of people who compare complex human reactions with wild creatures.

As I said in a previous thread, if you're telling people to put red 'kickers' on a teflon coated hook to stop the sun shining off it 12ft underwater, you're taking the piss out of the consumer, and the consumer are fools for swallowing it.

In reply to Post #1
Genuinely, I nodded off 45 mins in. Mrs came in woke me up..... been done to death the catch on camera stuff.. I'd much prefer a technical. How rigs behave etc type thing . Might keep me awake a bit longer 😂

In reply to Post #1
Completely agree. For the time and expense put in it seemed like a missed opportunity did we really learn anything ?

It became the Tom Maker show and too much trying to catch fish rather testing rigs, baits, spod mixes etc..

Even simple stuff such as seeing how the fish react to a spomb hitting the water etc...

Also there didn't seem to be any planning as they were making it up as they go along.

In reply to Post #1
Filmed at Horcott Lake in the Cotswolds. I fished there last March and had a lovely mirror with a terrible mouth too. Otters are an issue there too as you could see with the fins. It's a really nice lake and I enjoyed my 24hrs there.

I'm watching it and it prob doesn't need to be nearly 4hrs but I'm honestly enjoying it. Most interesting bit for me was the underfishing guys swimming out the rigs and the carp following the swimmer.

Wish they'd done lots more testing like spombing etc and at the length it is they could have easily done that.

Took several attempts to watch as I kept nodding off, don't know why I bothered, should've stayed clear purely because mozza was in it, gets on my nerves big time.

Daz

In reply to Post #3
...

I watched bits of it. Far too long and not enough work had gone into the storyboard. Quality of the filming was very high which was good, but clearly there is an otter problem on the lake and those old commons had battered mouths.

The mark Bryant and cash Farnham from the early 00's shows the markering up and spodding side and what happens to it all as it's falling through the water.

Lifting the lid was the name and nowadays it's probably on YouTube.

Actually searched for it and it's on there

https://youtu.be/gBZ0OOW1C7c?si=Gz10DLaiVQHbXGwf

I enjoyed it. Long so they should also produce a much more edited version for people who want a summary.

Maybe I know less that other members but what I learned was:
- the fish really didn't scare off line, tubing, leads or hooks. They didn't care at all even when not feeding hard
- worms and maggots are a lot less attractive to small fish than I thought once they are on the lake bed
- carp notice pink well before noticing yellow hook baits
- the neat pile of bait that you think you have after spodding accurately or a PVA bag melts will be moved all over the swim by a carp's pectorals. Made me think that a stringer of boilies would roll around the moment carp arrive and not sit in a straight line
- large PVA bags are too large and the carp has to come back a few times to east it all
- a feeding carp may tangle your rig in ways that seem impossible (wrapping hooklink under tubing) before it gets to your bait ... but that doesn't matter as the carp can still get hooked anyway
- carp love worms, but if you fill your swim in with them they don't get nearly as a excited as fishing a single worm over a handful of hemp

I didn't mind the video but it was a bit long. The one thing I hated was the divers taking rigs out as not representative of anyone's fishing.

The one thing I've learnt from most of the underwater videos are fish eat a lot longer then we think they do

Good to see how ineffective their hookbaits were when putting lots (way too much) of small bits in the feed, most often being avoided because they look so ridiculous, but I guess many of us knew that anyway. This obsession with lary pop ups may work as a single over light weed but is a big fail in their situation.

Maker also did nothing to experiment with his set up, continually banging on about how good it was, and actually came across as pretty arrogant, whereas an opportunity like that I'd have thought anyone would use the chance to really see how or where improvements could be made, and there were plenty of areas that were not working despite his bragging. Korda far more intelligent and methodical imo..

In reply to Post #14
ive got a copy of that Cash gave me ages ago, good Vid and opens your eyes when using back leads

In reply to Post #1
I didn't enjoy this at all, however John Timmermans vid was excellent viewing as always 👍👍

In reply to Post #19
The last Timmerman video I watched was just

"I'm in this swim, here's a fish I caught, here's another fish I caught, had to pack up, back in the same swim as last time, just caught this fish, haven't caught a fish for a while, there's some pike anglers getting near my rigs, here's a fish i caught, jist caught this little fish etc etc"

Haven't watched anything he has done since. Am I missing out?

There all the same now very boring and as mentioned it's about catching not learning.

They wanted to adjust things straight away if something wasn't right yet we'd never no. Wasn't impressed at all.

Much rather they set it up like a real live situation. Spod and cast then set up the camera on the spot the rig landed and see how it plays out.

In reply to Post #20
The latest JT fim has him yet again fishing in Reserve zones where fish spawn. Again.

In reply to Post #22
'Reserve Zones'

Can you explain that please? Are these areas out of bounds or just shallower areas where they are known to spawn?

In reply to Post #20
Lol, you are a funny man, and not wrong:XD

In reply to Post #23
Out of bounds areas I'm afraid. It's the same lake that the Mr Fairbrass and Peck fished a few years back... And they stayed out of that area.
The previous vid in the Alps... Annecy... Fish caught in a no fishing zone.

None of us are angels, but making a vid about it, and publicising is, isn't, in my view, the right thing to do.

In reply to Post #25
That's a shame, I watched that. I enjoyed it. I do not watch any carp videos really.

That one actually followed on from one I watched about the Baitworks boss on small Euro canals the other day. That was really good, I watched part 1 & 2 one after the other, being a river angler, it caught my attention. I would recommend those very highly to anyone who has not watched them both. I really enjoyed those.

Part 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJlniRSFG_o


Part 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNc6Y819qj0&t=53s

In reply to Post #26
All the Baitworks vids are great, but I always wonder whether Mike edits the vids to make it look as if he does all the hard work/baiting/cooking/etc, or has Mark just got some compromising photo's.....

In reply to Post #27
You completely lost me there, that's the only one I have ever watched

In reply to Post #26
Yes, also agree with both of you. Mark and Mike also manage to bring the 'fun' into it, which is all part of it on those public French trips.

In reply to Post #21
You have a point, however if the korda lads saw a rig land ineffectively they would have reeled it in straight away. I wonder if having a big arse diver in the swim is more or less off-putting to carp than a spomb.

Very disappointed
Served no value letting the camera guys and divers comment on proceedings
Found the bird rubbing her stomach constantly irritating

In reply to Post #27
Proper bromance going on there

In reply to Post #14
Thank you very much for linking that video. That was a fascinating watch! Answered all the questions i had about bait and rig behaviour underwater that other films can glance over as its not about pulling out carp after carp.

The fact they had to allow 7ft of back swing in 14ft of water blew my mind. I'm fishing similar depths and its clear im not landing anywhere near where i clipped up the marker. Also when the diver moved a 2 and 3oz lead with his finger without any problems makes you wonder if my 2.5oz leads are too light and im getting done more than i think.

Fantastic watch, thanks again.

In reply to Post #33
I'm definitely not in the Pythagoras theorem camp, but the ‘swing back” thing is interesting - maybe it's been amplified by the need to feel for a drop? Years ago, you held the tip up, and as soon as the lead hit the water dropped it, letting it fall on a slack line. Or even flicked the line out of the clip in deeper water to allow for more slack. Now people feel for the drop, you're going to make it swing towards you - you even see some people raise the tip to keep the line tight which will amplify it. Obvs the deeper the water, the more of an effect....

Pub chucks have a lot going for them.

In reply to Post #34
A number of videos have been mentioned and they all seem to contradict themselves in one way or another. Are they all right or are they all wrong?
Here's a couple more Fox videos

one

two

In reply to Post #34
it's impossible to feel the lead all the way down in 14ft of water without dragging the lead towards you because you can follow it down most of the way but the rod tip will be in the water before the lead hits the bottom, the only way is to unclip before the rod tip reaches the water, but you can't feel.ot down that way.

In reply to Post #34
Maybe it's best to unclip once the lead hits the water and let it go straight down on a slack line if you don't want swing back..

In reply to Post #34
.

In reply to Post #38
I never understand why this matters. If you've found the spot with the marker, then you already have factored in the swingback. Clip up the marker so it lands on the spot, then clip your rod to the same wraps. No need for messing about.

Yes there will be a slight variation between braid and mono, but of you're feeling for the drop you'll know if you're on the spot or not.

In reply to Post #39
Agree.
I rarely feel for the drop because much of the time it's never as clear as it seems, especially with mono. For me it's just lowering the rod to control the drop and slightly soften the landing.
If I find a clear area I will then leave the marker in and make a few casts around it and drag the old rig with a bottom bait on and feel the lake bed, like I'm leading around the marker.
The big advantage of this is the hook length will pick up any bits of low lying weed or leaf litter that may not have been so obvious with the marker and I can then identify better 'spots' on the wider area.

In reply to Post #38
If you use bags, just put a foam nugget in it. You'll see exactly where the bait is in relation to the maker.

In reply to Post #41
Back in the day I used to put some Fluoro Popups in the bag. Don't do that anymore, they cost too much

In reply to Post #41
That's exactly what I do. A nugget or two in a stick or the rare occasions
I use a solid bag.

In reply to Post #43
but do the nuggets go straight to the top in a straight line. We need another underwater video

In reply to Post #44
Try spotting a pva nugget thats got to rise through 17ft of water at 120 yrds in a 20 mph cross wind.

In reply to Post #45
Can do all of that. At night. In the rain. That's the problem with some anglers, just not observant enough.

In reply to Post #45
In those conditions I've already spodded my bait across half the lake and am fishing with 3 on a “spot” of about an acre so I don't need to worry about seeing the nugget

In reply to Post #47

In reply to Post #45
Try getting one to stay on at 120 yards

Michael

In reply to Post #1
Glad i was not the only one who felt this dragged on a tad too long. I had to break it up into 3 sections and watch over a few days.

Even though he generally grates on me... i think that made a mistake not listening to Mozza and moving the camera... he says they should try different rigs and bait presentations on the spot that they start on and Maker then hammers.

For me any underwater is worth watching... always something to learn and observe. One of the only benefits of my cypography (now successfully cancelled) subscription is the submerge series

See maker has since joined Korda

In reply to Post #51
Splitter.

In reply to Post #51
Maybe we will all be able to buy that magic bloodworm liquid now 😂😂

In reply to Post #51
He's been using Daiwa rods and reels for donkies years anyway. Allegedly.

They're all at it. Hamidi has been using Fox gear for over ten years. Penning just used whatever he liked. When it comes to personal fishing, you won't find many who 100% use their employers gear.

It's a job at the end of the day.

In reply to Post #54
Whores, followed by sheep

In reply to Post #53
The secret ingredient he has mentioned a few times..🤔🤔
He never mentioned worms either in all those years of using them,always said it was something else 🙂

In reply to Post #54
The shimano rods are used a lot as well, not in the videos though..
They are only £120

I doubt any of them used fox hooks other than filming. Awful, awful hooks.

In reply to Post #58
May I ask which hooks you use / would recommend?

In reply to Post #58
Not all of them...the super wide gapes are a great pattern and have performed very well.

In reply to Post #60
Fox Series 1 were great hooks. Shame they don't do them anymore

In reply to Post #61
The series 2 were even better. Open water hooks though.

If you liked the series 1, try some Incizors from Gardner which are available. Make sure it's the newer Covert Dark ones and not the previous guises still sold on eBay. Same pattern as good as. The Incizors are slightly thicker gauge/stronger than the series 1 were though.

In reply to Post #62
Thanks I'll take a look
Bank Tackle do a similar hook but they've been out of stock for many months now.
Fortunately I've still got a few Series 1 left

In reply to Post #55
Whores, followed by sheep/ITALIC>


Aren't we all when it comes to earning a living?

In reply to Post #64
The carp/tackle industry is the only industry that I know of that's happy to put poorly educated individules that struggle to read/write or hold a coherent conversation at the forefront of their sales and marketing campaign.

Say's a lot about their target customers.

In reply to Post #65
Individules?

The irony.....

In reply to Post #65
“ Say's”

Ummmm,

I watched it all the way through and thought it was very good, I think the thing is we have been spoilt by the Korda boys who are likeable cheeky chappies so through the quiet periods their banter keeps things interesting