I use a freezer boilie from one of the long established Bait companies.
This bait used to turn and get white spots after about 4 days on the bank... I was never concerned because it was just as effective and reinforced my feeling that I was truly using a quality fresh bait.
That same freezer bait nowadays does not seem to turn and does not get white spots even after a week on the bank stored in a plastic bag.
It is still an effective bait .... but if it is the same as shelf life I could save myself a lot of hassle and money by buying shelf life.

In reply to Post #1
I bought a frozen bag of mainline hybrid once when i was in a pinch. Took it with me in the bag, and left half the bag in my holdall forgotten about for a few weeks. When i took it out it looked identical to when it went in. I swear they jist freeze the shelf life instead of making 2 different batches.

Well John Baker definitely thinks it goes on

In reply to Post #1
go to company and if your not happy with there story ,expose them

Saw a vid once of Gary Bayes From Nashbait adding a load of neat Preservative into a cement mixer of boilie once. Be counter productive to then freeze them,surely?

In reply to Post #1
Yes they are...

In reply to Post #6
Care to elaborate..

In reply to Post #5
Many moons ago i bought some nash freezer baits, I left some in a bucket after a trip and 2 weeks later when i found them they were still exactly the same, not a single sign of mould. I cantacted Nash regarding this and was informed by Mr Bayes that i had air dried them.
I have never bought any more bait from Nash

In reply to Post #6
Are thay

In reply to Post #8
Possible?

In reply to Post #10
Yes many do
I won't name them
Do your homework and go see the bait produced or at least ring and ask questions. There is so much going behind the doors that many of you are not aware of. There are some good companies out there doing it properly........my advice is you spend time tracking them down

In reply to Post #10
Sorry should have addeed that after i was told that i had air dried them i took the entire bag out of the freezer and left them to thaw out, and after many months they were still exactly the same, so i'm pretty sure they were shelf lfe.

In reply to Post #11
Or just make your own.

In reply to Post #12
Nash scopex squid plus the one with added tiger nut meal doke exactly this to me. It was one hell of a bait though it caught everywhere shelf life or not

Most bait manufacturers add a small amount of preservative to their freezer baits !'

In reply to Post #11
Funnily enough, the only freezer bait I've had in recent years that actually starts to turn white after a day or two (like the good old days) is your Nutriplex

In reply to Post #11
Sound advice , cheers

In reply to Post #16
Real eggs, milks, livers.......in this heat it should turn within 2/3 days. A cool bag or a splash of hydro may stretch it to 3/4
Fresh for me too

In reply to Post #1
I know that E numbers (preservatives) are being used in frozen food.

So, if DEFRA allows preservatives to be used in frozen foods sold in supermarkets for our consumption, then, the bait companies will use preservatives in frozen baits too...and they're not breaking the law.

If it means they don't have to clean the machines between each mix, they'll do it. When the term, “stabilised” started being used instead of shelf life, I knew there was no difference anymore.

“The field testers get the good bait...let's just leave it at that”. John Baker

In reply to Post #16
Both aqua bait and baitworks turn after a couple of days. Aqua bait seems to turn in less than 48, not that it bothers me one bit.

In reply to Post #19
Not all E numbers are preservatives.

In reply to Post #16
My main bait (I do tend to have a collection of baits as I can't resist trying out new stuff when on offer and also picking up overturns etc for baiting up) turns after a few days. I start to see white appearing after less than 48 hours and on a 3 day session (I only do once a year at a very special water) the bait is showing obvious signs of the sugars coming out. In hindsight writing this I really should stop buying anything on offer and just use this company for all my bait as it isn't overly expensive either, note to self, stop wasting money 💰

In reply to Post #22
white dusting on fishmeals is deadly imo, catch the bait just right and 2 days good fishing, keep the baits in rotation to get the best .

In reply to Post #22

In reply to Post #1
I would wager this is going on, seen a delivery at my local shop, looked to be haphazard wether they went on shelf or in freezer to me.

In reply to Post #21
It was just an example, mate. Jesus! 😂

I used to love active8 when it went white. But it was then a fine margin as to how long you pushed your luck before it actually turned bad.

In reply to Post #27
100% dusted , cant remember did the grange go white

In reply to Post #20
Aqua bait will be made properly with fresh ingredients. They are the baits I would be most interested in personally.

In reply to Post #16
my ABS MC Nut & 2TB turned white within 5 days a few weeks ago after i took it out for a trip that was subsequently cancelled. Good to know Geoff keeps it real

In reply to Post #28
Yes it did, and I wish the original recipe was still available. Loved that bait!

Does it really matter?

The difference between frozen and shelfies/stabilized baits from the likes of Baitworks is so small these days.

In reply to Post #32
Does it really matter? ...I guess that is the reason why I posted the question in the first place. As it stands it does matter on the grounds of cost. I never want to run out of bait... so generally I take more than I need and some gets wasted as I don't refreeze it.
If I used shelf life the bait remaining would not be wasted. I would perhaps bring back unopened bags etc.
There is talk of shelf life baits being banned on some waters due to a perception that they don't break down on the lake bed as quickly as fresh/frozen baits do... that would open up another discussion.

In reply to Post #33
Seen that , no shelfies, there are some baits that would sit there till the cows come home,

In reply to Post #33
Put them in a bucket, bit of glug no one is the wiser

In reply to Post #35
What will it take to change the masses from shelf life to freezer baits? A good friend of mine who sells bait tells me shelf life is the majority of their sales now. Whereas our baits are currently the other way round? We sell more fresh (maybe cos we push it more I don't know). Oh how times have changed

I occasionally purchase shelf life boilies to keep in the car in case I run out of my bait, when I do so I know what I have purchased.

Generally I make my own bait or have my own recipe made for me, it's absolutely important to me that these are freezer baits that will start to degrade almost as soon as they are out of the freezer, that breakdown is part of the attraction that I have planned in my bait and is so much more effective than any glug.

To me it makes perfect sense for a manufacturer to want to only make one version of a bait and that a shelf life version that is so much easier store and transport. But I do find it underhand and underlies why I cannot bring myself to consider buying freezer bait from the big manufacturers... If ever I find myself needing to buy a freezer bait it will be from a small producer who puts together there own ingredients into a basemix and rolls them in house.

In reply to Post #35
Hand on heart, I've never bought a shelf life bait. I rarely fish more than an overnighter and have a freezer so why would I?

In reply to Post #38
I normally refer to Shelfies as dead baits as there's virtually nothing going on in them!

In reply to Post #33
Only last week when at a work party post spawning did I see and smell the remains of a load of shelf life hung up in weed which was getting raked from the lake. Now bare in the mind the lake has been closed for 4 weeks, that puts the bait at a month old already and was still hard as marble as smelt like baby vomit.

The above has now started the discussion about a shelf life ban on the lake in question which I'm all for after witnessing first hand what happens when it goes uneaten.

I can't even remember the last time I purchased shelf life myself. At the moment I'm fishing with a boilie which breaks downs after 12-16 hours and seeing a massive increase in catch rate over the last few months since I started using it.

Im probably wrong, but from my failed attempt at bait making, and this is probably why it was failed, but all of the ingredients that went into the mix were shelf life. Powders, liquids, all came in little pots that stayed in the garage. The only fresh ingredient was egg. I doubt many mass produced freezer baits are much different. So why woild a freezer bait breakdown but a shelf life not?

Would a very heavily air dried freezer bait breakdown the same as a fresh freezer bait?

For the record i use a shelf life bait, one i believe is good quality, and it doesnt take long to break down at all, in my experience anyway.

In reply to Post #40
And there in lies the problem with some shelfies, the inconsistency in the preservative levels, some are obvious poor, with a waxy like texture that would take an age to break down.

I have no problem in using a shelf life bait from certain manufacturers. Take Baitworks for example, drop a shelfie in a tank alongside a freezer bait and the breakdown times are not far apart...........now that could mean, (as suggested in the OP) that Baitworks are selling the same bait as both freezer and shelflife. The fact that my last order of freezer bait from them was dispatched on a Friday and arrived on the Monday in perfect condition could lend weight to that. Their defence when I questioned the freshness after being sat in a couriers warehouse for the weekend was that they vacuum seal their bait for freshness.....well only 2 of the 4 5KG bags were actually vacuum sealed.....

I would be surprised but you never know! Either way I have zero problem in using them.

In reply to Post #37
A number of manufacturers use exactly the same recipe for shelf lifes and frozen. It is down to the treatment after boiling and drying that differentiates them.

Frozen baits will be dried and frozen, bit obvious that, but basically just a 'surface dry'.
Shelf life baits may be totally air dried out to remove all water, (making them lighter) or after drying, then given a glycerol/sugar syrup bath before a dry and bagging up.

Frozen bait vs shelf life is a big question.
For years I liked the baits that after thawing on day 2/3 started to 'turn', got a white dusting, basically the sugars and enzymes coming to the surface of the bait, that is pre-mould, before they go mouldy.

Then I discovered that some shelf life baits were the same as the frozen, and could be more attractive instantly than frozen baits because of this glycerol syrup treatment, so I started fishing both together. The shelfie version on the hair, because they stayed hard longer, and baiting up with both together.
Solars Seafood Takeaway was one such bait, I caught on both versions.

Then for some reason I switched to Rod Hutchinson KMG, shelf life, and caught. I have not changed bait since. I caught from Nazeing South and Central and Alton Water, giving me the confidence to carry on using the bait in shelf life version.

In reply to Post #18
If you have incorporated high levels of Vecon, Belachan and or other salts and sugars then those baits as I am well versed in will last from 3 weeks to one month without ANY added chemicals preservatives. Not forgetting that fish meals and almost any other ingredient will have their own preservatives during manufacture . Citric acid seems to be in many products.

In reply to Post #44
so they dont add any preservatives pre the boiling stage

In reply to Post #46
thought thay did, many like sticky krill have a long shelf life

Flame suite on but I welcome a tad of preservative if I bought Freezers.
1) It helps if you get them delivered (slight defrosting)
2) I like to re-use them after a session, stick some back in the freezer and ready to go again for a few sessions.

Better than a shelf bait with preservatives, but overly so.
Lets face it we get through a kilo in short periods.
Makes sense, and the way forward.
I sense a market for such baits. (fishing abroad, short term etc. )
What I'm trying to say is I think it would be a popular option out of three\ four.
One being Fresh bait, Two, nearly fresh bait, three\four, stabilised\shelf life.

Please give me a list of fresh baits with a *tad* of preservative in them.
I'd rather buy these than one with none in, or tonnes in.
Horses for courses I guess, how you are able to fish, juggle, buy bait \ work.

In reply to Post #48
ABS make “stabilised” versions of their baits.

In reply to Post #49
A.B.S short life stabilised baits will stay usable for up to 3 months if kept in a cool dark place. Then they go mouldy. It's obvious when they turn.

In reply to Post #49
Isn't that the same thing

So other than egg, what ingredients in a shop bought freezer bait is it that needs preserving?

Like i posted below, you can generally buy all the ingredients to roll your own from the same company. And all the ingredients are shelf life?

In reply to Post #52
The dry powders aren't shelf life, they are just dry! Like flour. Add a bit of water to them and see how long they last....

In reply to Post #51
Not used them, but the wat Geoff explains it is the at they are “short term” preserved. As noted below, they do still turn, just takes longer.

In reply to Post #7
Nothing to elaborate... It is as it is...

In reply to Post #46
Thats right.
Or correctly, nothing called a preservative like potassium sorbate, maybe ingredients like thaumatin, which is not only a sweetener and taste enhancer, but may be a preservative, and other ingredients that can be taste enhancers as well as preservative.

In reply to Post #45
. I used to use the Pete B mix that would keep for ages due to the salty ingredients, especially if glugged in fish sauce

In reply to Post #57
I've moved to very small scale home rolling - main mix is BAF's Tropamino but I also create my own too. Lots of reasons for doing this, mainly the satisfaction of making my own bait and catching on it.

For me, nearly all my bait is a freezer bait but my hookbaits and popups (same basemix) are longer life. Simply by drying them for a few days and then with a home made glug (lots of fish sauce plus hydros) with more air drying they become harder and long life baits.

I could quite easily do the same for anything up to a few kilos at a time but like the fresh feed bait. Only preservative is probably the salt in the fish sauce.

Easy for me - perhaps not so much for bait companies turning over huge quantities. I'd always use freezer bait now but that's simply preference and it works with my fishing.

In reply to Post #1
I wrote about this nearly 20 years ago on the old RMC forum.

It's been happening forever, and clearly still is. You only need to think about it from a business perspective. Electricity to keep freezers running en masse is expensive... Problems with deliveries going bad if delivery to shops or homes is delayed for any reason... Problems with novice anglers not knowing how to keep fresh bait in a good condition for a long weekend in the summer...

They are all solved, and there is lots of money to be saved by storing tonnes of readymades in a big container.... And throwing them into a freezer for a few hours before sending out.

On Fen Drayton I saw 25kg of freezer bait sit in bags in the back of someones hot van for a week... They were fresh as a daisy. In fact he still had them weeks later in the bags and those freezer baits never went off. Big company, still going today.

A friend came to the Thames with me around the same time, he was bringing the bait. He brought four 5kg bags of freezer baits with him. He chucked them in the sun and left them...I was used to using fresh bait, and started crying it would all be ruined... He laughed and said to me, that shizzle will never go off. Gawd knows what is done to it but it never goes off. It was clearly heavily preserved bait that had been frozen.
It's not just these two different firms, I know of at least three of them that were up to this same game around the same time, and still are going by this thread!

This has NOTHING to do with salty liquids etc... It's heavily preserved, as in a bag of readymades that can sit on a tackle shop shelf for three years. The answer, use someone for your bait who cares about the fresh bait which he sells, like Geoff or one of the smaller firms.

Ask yourself honestly, if you think that a large bait firm which will happily falsely advertise to you on a consistent, almost daily basis, with fish that they know 100% are not even caught on their bait. Big companies that will literally bribe carp anglers with free gear en masse to do this... You think these people have any morals towards you? You are very sadly mistaken. It's all part of the game for them, all that matters is the profits... Nothing else.

In reply to Post #58
Doing very similar myself.

Roll a kilo a week of trop, takes 20 minutes and comes in at 5 quid a kilo made.

Don't trust the majority of bait companies

In reply to Post #60
"Roll a kilo a week of trop, takes 20 minutes and comes in at 5 quid a kilo made.
Don't trust the majority of bait companies"

It's the way forwards. You will get some angler down the pond laugh at you because you're making your own...When in reality the bait you are making yourself, is actually ten times better than the tosh he's getting at hashtag £1 off per kilo. He's just been swayed by some glossy adverts, and often down right lies. Who's the foolish one really?

There's loads of great bait companies though mate. You just have to understand what ones are what. Nothing better than making it yourself though. You know exactly what goes into it.

I am sure if everyone here who has any experience of big brand popular mainstream freezer baits really thinks about it... They will soon understand.... Some baits have always been better when they are going a bit sweaty going back donkeys years... They have zero preservatives in them. Other massive companies based in the same neck of the woods... You will never even hear of their freezer baits going sweaty, let alone that they are better that way... You certainly don't need to be a rocket scientist to work out why.

As I stated in my last post... If you can roll tonnes of bait during the winter, then store it in giant metal containers all summer, and also knock out any losses due to freezer bait going off in transit... Just think about the rough mathematic savings that can be made over doing it the right way. They are vast.

In reply to Post #61
joined a new water this year and did 3 short days on the sticky krill soaked in hemp oil which i have had loads of fish on over recent years to mid 40's.

Had loads of confidence in it but blanked every day on the 3 short days.

Spoke to a regular who told me its a rock hard venue which holds some truth, and he did his first 40 nights for no fish.

Knocked up some BAF Trop' very simple attractor package from the local supermarkets one evening. Did not freeze, just fridge until i went for a short session the next day.

10 minutes into the day session mid 20 common.

Maybe a coincidence but i will rolling my own now for a very long time.

In reply to Post #57
Yep. I completely concur with that. Those additives in that mix have a high level of salt and it took ages to go off and caught very well.!

In reply to Post #43
The company I'm using at the moment (Royal Baits) refuses point blank to make anything shelf life apart from hookbaits. I asked for a friend who wanted to use the bait but due to her having no freezer space needed shelf life. In the end I purchased another 20kg for her to go in my freezer

In reply to Post #61
Thing is though, just because you know what goes in it, doesn't necessarily translate to it being a better bait.