So Mr Peck catches seven forties in a session from Grenville on isofish and cell from a
Water that attracts people who can afford to use the best bait available to human beings.
What really is the criteria here?
The Quantity put in?
The distance he can cast to?
Feeding the fish from a boat?
Or the quality of the bait, also no one can say cell has any novelty value to attract the fish.
Do we overestimate the importance of bait quality?
I am not insinuating that mainline is a cheap crap bait.Just that it's far from the best bait available
Water that attracts people who can afford to use the best bait available to human beings.
What really is the criteria here?
The Quantity put in?
The distance he can cast to?
Feeding the fish from a boat?
Or the quality of the bait, also no one can say cell has any novelty value to attract the fish.
Do we overestimate the importance of bait quality?
I am not insinuating that mainline is a cheap crap bait.Just that it's far from the best bait available
In reply to Post #1
Good post Mark
I believe so long as you use a decent bait that the fish like to eat, then it's more important where you put it, how much you put in and how often then how you present the hookbait.
I've been thinking for years, that many bait orientated anglers go too far with the desire to get as high a protein content as possible, using expensive high protein ingredients that the carp just can't digest.
Cell is a good example, I don't think it's high in protein, and it certainly doesn't cost a lot to produce but the fish certainly like to eat it.
Good post Mark
I believe so long as you use a decent bait that the fish like to eat, then it's more important where you put it, how much you put in and how often then how you present the hookbait.
I've been thinking for years, that many bait orientated anglers go too far with the desire to get as high a protein content as possible, using expensive high protein ingredients that the carp just can't digest.
Cell is a good example, I don't think it's high in protein, and it certainly doesn't cost a lot to produce but the fish certainly like to eat it.
In reply to Post #1
I guess there are the many different definitions of what "a good bait" is... and what different people think it should be.
On one end it could simply be the bait that catches the most and biggest fish.... consistently.... and on the other end there's the bait buff amateur biologist, white paper quoting, tank testing, FLAA smoothing, ph and ion balancing definiton but also there's real world experienced natural olfactory acumen gifted folk's definitions in the middle
Mainline baits always seem to get pasted (no pun intended) online but they also seem to be responsible for the most catches of the biggest carp, are the most widely used and eaten (I assume), and most carp seem in great condition and at record weight gain as a result.
I'm not advocating mainline, its been a long time since I used any (not for any particular reason - just don't find the baits exciting/inspiring) - just thinking out loud at the general "evidence".
More generally.... Darrel Peck seems to be a great angler - his record over the years is up there..... and he could probably use 90% of the baits available in the land and probably do the same.
I watched that video... I read in the comments from some observant accountant that the bait including liquids would have cost over £800 for the session. He obviously put it to effective use but that's also not a scenario that is in the reach of most people fishing so its hard to relate.
Good on him though - enjoyed the watch.
I guess there are the many different definitions of what "a good bait" is... and what different people think it should be.
On one end it could simply be the bait that catches the most and biggest fish.... consistently.... and on the other end there's the bait buff amateur biologist, white paper quoting, tank testing, FLAA smoothing, ph and ion balancing definiton but also there's real world experienced natural olfactory acumen gifted folk's definitions in the middle
Mainline baits always seem to get pasted (no pun intended) online but they also seem to be responsible for the most catches of the biggest carp, are the most widely used and eaten (I assume), and most carp seem in great condition and at record weight gain as a result.
I'm not advocating mainline, its been a long time since I used any (not for any particular reason - just don't find the baits exciting/inspiring) - just thinking out loud at the general "evidence".
More generally.... Darrel Peck seems to be a great angler - his record over the years is up there..... and he could probably use 90% of the baits available in the land and probably do the same.
I watched that video... I read in the comments from some observant accountant that the bait including liquids would have cost over £800 for the session. He obviously put it to effective use but that's also not a scenario that is in the reach of most people fishing so its hard to relate.
Good on him though - enjoyed the watch.
In reply to Post #1
Isn't the criteria, that there more than 2000 fish in that lake who need to eat...
Isn't the criteria, that there more than 2000 fish in that lake who need to eat...
In reply to Post #2
Yes, the overall cost of the amount he used is partly what prompted me to ask the question. To be fair to him, he says himself the quantity used is dependent on the stock of fish. However, it's still a rich man's game. Considering the cost of the ticket alone.
I would even be prepared to say that if it was really necessary he is one of the people who would have stood there and spodded the bait out for hours.
Yes, the overall cost of the amount he used is partly what prompted me to ask the question. To be fair to him, he says himself the quantity used is dependent on the stock of fish. However, it's still a rich man's game. Considering the cost of the ticket alone.
I would even be prepared to say that if it was really necessary he is one of the people who would have stood there and spodded the bait out for hours.
In reply to Post #1
So many variables..... I think a good bait has a good attraction package, digestible, fish like to eat it and most importantly, has good nutritional value for the fish. If we catch them, then the bait should feed them, not just attract them.
Other opinions are available....
So many variables..... I think a good bait has a good attraction package, digestible, fish like to eat it and most importantly, has good nutritional value for the fish. If we catch them, then the bait should feed them, not just attract them.
Other opinions are available....
In reply to Post #1
Tbf Peck is just one of those anglers that is head and shoulders above most. You could give him almost any bait and he'd succeed. For us mortals, a decent bait is important for confidence and without that, most struggle.
Tbf Peck is just one of those anglers that is head and shoulders above most. You could give him almost any bait and he'd succeed. For us mortals, a decent bait is important for confidence and without that, most struggle.
In reply to Post #1
Best thing to is to watch it for light entertainment purposes, as background noise, to knacker your eyeballs out before bed, as it isn't the reality of 99% of angler's fishing. Films on Grenville/Rainbow etc are just for entertainment purposes. It will teach you nothing unless you fish Grenville or Rainbow.
Each to their own, but I get zero enrichment watching people (albeit without doubt one of the best anglers out there) banging out fish after fish for lb's and oz's without any substance or atmosphere.
The vids are adverts, and the aim is to get you to buy the products. Lets take Mr Bowler for example, who was once one of the best film makers out there, made some superb atmospheric videos, yet is now wearing a snapback talking about how great Nash hooks are.
Money Money Money...
Best thing to is to watch it for light entertainment purposes, as background noise, to knacker your eyeballs out before bed, as it isn't the reality of 99% of angler's fishing. Films on Grenville/Rainbow etc are just for entertainment purposes. It will teach you nothing unless you fish Grenville or Rainbow.
Each to their own, but I get zero enrichment watching people (albeit without doubt one of the best anglers out there) banging out fish after fish for lb's and oz's without any substance or atmosphere.
The vids are adverts, and the aim is to get you to buy the products. Lets take Mr Bowler for example, who was once one of the best film makers out there, made some superb atmospheric videos, yet is now wearing a snapback talking about how great Nash hooks are.
Money Money Money...
In reply to Post #1
He put the right amount of bait in the right place at the right time, on the right rig
People like him can read a situation well, he can fish effectively at distance as well which matters in that situation
Bait quality matters more in certain situations, but it's far from the most important part.
I catch more on bits of black foam and plastic corn than I've ever caught on bait
He put the right amount of bait in the right place at the right time, on the right rig
People like him can read a situation well, he can fish effectively at distance as well which matters in that situation
Bait quality matters more in certain situations, but it's far from the most important part.
I catch more on bits of black foam and plastic corn than I've ever caught on bait
In reply to Post #4
Yeah he's also one of the few who can spod and cast accurately at 150 yards
Certainly agree re the cost, £800 worth of bait in 3 days
Yeah he's also one of the few who can spod and cast accurately at 150 yards
Certainly agree re the cost, £800 worth of bait in 3 days
lots of great comments so far & just have to echo what others have said around adverts & being sucked in to what these films are telling you as they all have an agenda & that is to buy more of their products.
I think there are so many different factors around what goes in baits & factors that can affect it & nobody will give you the same answer - it's all subjective as there is no way a carp can communicate with us to tell us what it is thinking. I think it's always worth remembering that some very good bait minds are happy to use a commercial bait rather then their own because they don't want to think about it any more.
there isn't a super bait that does everything - just like there isn't a single food that we eat that does everything for us - it depends on conditions & circumstances. some days they want a tiger nut, another day they'll want a pink one, another da it will be something straight out of the bag - then is comes down to the angler being able to work out what the patterns are that helps to identify when that will be.
I think there are so many different factors around what goes in baits & factors that can affect it & nobody will give you the same answer - it's all subjective as there is no way a carp can communicate with us to tell us what it is thinking. I think it's always worth remembering that some very good bait minds are happy to use a commercial bait rather then their own because they don't want to think about it any more.
there isn't a super bait that does everything - just like there isn't a single food that we eat that does everything for us - it depends on conditions & circumstances. some days they want a tiger nut, another day they'll want a pink one, another da it will be something straight out of the bag - then is comes down to the angler being able to work out what the patterns are that helps to identify when that will be.
In reply to Post #1
I thought Grenville was a no publicity water?
Or is that ban just for regular members ?
I thought Grenville was a no publicity water?
Or is that ban just for regular members ?
In reply to Post #12
Well there's been plenty of publicity with guests and camera crews so yeah I would imagine Paul will only allow certain publicity, just like a particular water in Suffolk where members can't publicise but Angling direct have done plenty of filming.
Well there's been plenty of publicity with guests and camera crews so yeah I would imagine Paul will only allow certain publicity, just like a particular water in Suffolk where members can't publicise but Angling direct have done plenty of filming.
To me bait quality matters a lot. I like to use high quality baits to offset the shortfall in my water craft!
In reply to Post #1
If you're saying Mainline is rubbish bait, you're an idiot( not accussing anyone). It catches fish, so it can't be bad. Is it the ultimate, super high-nutrition, complete carp food? Probably not.
As for the original question—nah, it's not that important in the grand scheme of things. Location, location, location is what really matters, in my opinion.
If you're saying Mainline is rubbish bait, you're an idiot( not accussing anyone). It catches fish, so it can't be bad. Is it the ultimate, super high-nutrition, complete carp food? Probably not.
As for the original question—nah, it's not that important in the grand scheme of things. Location, location, location is what really matters, in my opinion.
Imo availability of free food is paramount regardless of quality. Anything that can be eaten without getting caught on is going to be more successful as long as the carp like to eat it. The only difference between a standard food and a super food will be that the fish grow faster. In this day and age of so many baits going into a lake it's impossible for the fish to become bait selective so availability is imo absolutely everything, obviously putting said food in the right place is a great help
In reply to Post #15
I thought i had tried to make it clear that mainline, is not crap. Just not the best available.
As someone else has said, I'm of the opinion that in most lakes, so many different baits are going in that it's impossible for the fish to tell which one is giving them the most benefit.( belief in hnv theory is a whole argument in itself, one which I believed was gospel, but now think is largely irrelevant. ) so we are left with location and food supply as the relevant factors. Obviously some people are better at finding the fish in the first place. Then have the dedication to keep getting there first. Also not everyone can cast 150 yards accurately and bait accurately too. Bait boats are a real leveler here.
I thought i had tried to make it clear that mainline, is not crap. Just not the best available.
As someone else has said, I'm of the opinion that in most lakes, so many different baits are going in that it's impossible for the fish to tell which one is giving them the most benefit.( belief in hnv theory is a whole argument in itself, one which I believed was gospel, but now think is largely irrelevant. ) so we are left with location and food supply as the relevant factors. Obviously some people are better at finding the fish in the first place. Then have the dedication to keep getting there first. Also not everyone can cast 150 yards accurately and bait accurately too. Bait boats are a real leveler here.
In reply to Post #17
Hence my "If you're saying Mainline is rubbish bait, you're an idiot( not accussing anyone)" - that was more a genralisation I read on here and in general about Mainline bait and not aimed at you in person.
Hence my "If you're saying Mainline is rubbish bait, you're an idiot( not accussing anyone)" - that was more a genralisation I read on here and in general about Mainline bait and not aimed at you in person.
In reply to Post #4
Quote.... Isn't the criteria, that there more than 2000 fish in that lake who need to eat...
Someone who see's past the headlines. When he was fishing on the car park, catching a brace of 40's, there were circa ten carp in there. 20%. Far wiser, far longer fished for carp too.
On that basis, to equal those kind of feats, I'd be looking for him to bank more than 400 x 40's from that place. It's not really carp fishing as we knew it anymore, not with those sorts of stock.
So many of the 'elite' waters these days have a joke amount of carp in them. Even the revered ones. It's all being dumbed down constantly.
Quote.... Isn't the criteria, that there more than 2000 fish in that lake who need to eat...
Someone who see's past the headlines. When he was fishing on the car park, catching a brace of 40's, there were circa ten carp in there. 20%. Far wiser, far longer fished for carp too.
On that basis, to equal those kind of feats, I'd be looking for him to bank more than 400 x 40's from that place. It's not really carp fishing as we knew it anymore, not with those sorts of stock.
So many of the 'elite' waters these days have a joke amount of carp in them. Even the revered ones. It's all being dumbed down constantly.
'
I dont no how these full time anglers get some much credit. Fishing over stocked lakes for sponsors.
Look at Tom stockes, fishing some of the best waters to Norton Disney.
Id much prefer to watch a video on a hard lake where they had to work for it then have a Bayliff drop you 30 kilo on a spot so you can brag
Look at Tom stockes, fishing some of the best waters to Norton Disney.
Id much prefer to watch a video on a hard lake where they had to work for it then have a Bayliff drop you 30 kilo on a spot so you can brag
In reply to Post #21
How long will the enthusiasm last if you can catch 40's to order?
How long will the enthusiasm last if you can catch 40's to order?
In reply to Post #22
When people stop recognising them as top anglers. There full time, give anyone half decent that Time most would produce the same.
When people stop recognising them as top anglers. There full time, give anyone half decent that Time most would produce the same.
In reply to Post #21
Oz holness comes to mind.
Oz holness comes to mind.
In reply to Post #23
My mate always says that time in fishing makes up for lack of talent. For me I always wonder if the bait that the sponsored anglers get is the same bait as everyone else.
My mate always says that time in fishing makes up for lack of talent. For me I always wonder if the bait that the sponsored anglers get is the same bait as everyone else.
In reply to Post #22
Totally agree,
Years ago I was in awe of someone who'd had a twenty pounder,now you can start off fishing ,catch a 30 pounder ,instant access and results in some cases, especially if you have money .
It's not progress,it's soulless...
Love my angling ,love my carping ,but can see a time when myself and many others go proper angling again ,for roach and rudd ,leaving a few carping diehards paying tremendous money to shoot fish in a barrel,with silly names and swims ..carrying oversized kit on motorised barrows fuelling ego driven mindsets...it will happen ,its coming and the biggest laugh of all is the search for a mega bait, a bait that makes dreams , such a bait does not and never will.exist ..
Hence ,location ,presentation and bait in that order,taught to me by one of Kents finest Original anglers ,it has to be in that order because ,bait ...is ...only a ,very small part of the equation..
Totally agree,
Years ago I was in awe of someone who'd had a twenty pounder,now you can start off fishing ,catch a 30 pounder ,instant access and results in some cases, especially if you have money .
It's not progress,it's soulless...
Love my angling ,love my carping ,but can see a time when myself and many others go proper angling again ,for roach and rudd ,leaving a few carping diehards paying tremendous money to shoot fish in a barrel,with silly names and swims ..carrying oversized kit on motorised barrows fuelling ego driven mindsets...it will happen ,its coming and the biggest laugh of all is the search for a mega bait, a bait that makes dreams , such a bait does not and never will.exist ..
Hence ,location ,presentation and bait in that order,taught to me by one of Kents finest Original anglers ,it has to be in that order because ,bait ...is ...only a ,very small part of the equation..
In reply to Post #26
"Love my angling ,love my carping ,but can see a time when myself and many others go proper angling again ,for roach and rudd ,leaving a few carping diehards paying tremendous money to shoot fish in a barrel,with silly names and swims ..carrying oversized kit on motorised barrows fuelling ego driven mindsets...it"
This. Especially the urge to give fish names, like they give a ****.
"Love my angling ,love my carping ,but can see a time when myself and many others go proper angling again ,for roach and rudd ,leaving a few carping diehards paying tremendous money to shoot fish in a barrel,with silly names and swims ..carrying oversized kit on motorised barrows fuelling ego driven mindsets...it"
This. Especially the urge to give fish names, like they give a ****.
the reason that these guys get the free bait & paid to fish is because of the results they had when they didn't get free bait & had limited time to fish.
I've fished plenty of places where full timers never got anywhere near the results of guys who fished properly & made the most of their limited time. time can be a leveller in some ways but it's not as important as some people are making out. good anglers are still good anglers & will catch loads wherever they go. tom stokes fishes norton because he is paid to - it's his job - to catch fish from the lakes & post them on social media to advertise them. same as darrel did in the mainline video.
that catch from Grenville isn;t that different to what others have done before on film - using different baits & tackle from different manufacturers. darrel mentioned on his recent podcast that it wasn't even his best trip on there last year.
certainly not something that was groundbreaking & have people changing their opinions on what makes a decent bait.
I've fished plenty of places where full timers never got anywhere near the results of guys who fished properly & made the most of their limited time. time can be a leveller in some ways but it's not as important as some people are making out. good anglers are still good anglers & will catch loads wherever they go. tom stokes fishes norton because he is paid to - it's his job - to catch fish from the lakes & post them on social media to advertise them. same as darrel did in the mainline video.
that catch from Grenville isn;t that different to what others have done before on film - using different baits & tackle from different manufacturers. darrel mentioned on his recent podcast that it wasn't even his best trip on there last year.
certainly not something that was groundbreaking & have people changing their opinions on what makes a decent bait.
Time and effort are 2 different things when fishing
Put enough time in and you will eventually catch a fish
Put a lot of effort in and you will catch more
These sponsorships are rewarding the effort of a few and I'm not talking about 20% of bait you could phone most companies up and they would give you that and call you sponsored I'm talking totally free bait free tackle even in some cases getting paid to fish
Then you get the anglers that put in the effort catch the fish and say nothing and go back to there day jobs because fishing is and will always be there enjoyment and hobby
I know a very good angler who catches a lot of fish and goes to work every day
Is he sponsored yes he is does he scream it from the roof tops most would walk past him in the carp shows and wouldn't turn a hair
Mickey grey is another
Fish for you nobody else
Put enough time in and you will eventually catch a fish
Put a lot of effort in and you will catch more
These sponsorships are rewarding the effort of a few and I'm not talking about 20% of bait you could phone most companies up and they would give you that and call you sponsored I'm talking totally free bait free tackle even in some cases getting paid to fish
Then you get the anglers that put in the effort catch the fish and say nothing and go back to there day jobs because fishing is and will always be there enjoyment and hobby
I know a very good angler who catches a lot of fish and goes to work every day
Is he sponsored yes he is does he scream it from the roof tops most would walk past him in the carp shows and wouldn't turn a hair
Mickey grey is another
Fish for you nobody else
I think it's a really good original question, and one that I spend an awful lot of time on.
Anything that is put in a decent spot in that quantity that is a decent bait would probably have had the same result. Free food, very competitive situation with hungry fish and bait placement sprayed from a boat (I assume). Most of us will have done similar on week trips, let's not pretend that a decision was made to maximise a particular session, it was probably hatched weeks before a bait and wait film that showed how to build a swim and maximise catches.
Where I think bait is super important and quality matters is on the more normal type situations, where fewer mouths have a choice. Especially in winter, fish that don't really need to feed have to be tempted (or annoyed) enough to take a bait. In these situations I would much rather have the very best possible than bag fulls of ‘good' bait.
A bait that is absolutely the best it can be, whilst you probably won't get anything better than naturals, I enjoy trying. I love pitting my wits against not just the fish but other anglers who buy 5kg of sawdust shelf life baits off eBay.
We all know that sometimes you will get your arse kicked by a worse bait, a worse rig, or lazy location - but I'd prefer to struggle doing my best that sit behind bait, rigs and spots and take my turn doing exactly the same as the other 90%.
So does bait matter - probably not as much as we think it does.
Does confidence matter and doing the very best - I think so. I also have very lazy sessions when I just want to go fishing and sit there for a few hours not really expecting to catch - often trying to learn a new lake but in the days of all the gadgets the only edges left and out of reach of the herd is bait science, rig science and 6th sense location.
Anything that is put in a decent spot in that quantity that is a decent bait would probably have had the same result. Free food, very competitive situation with hungry fish and bait placement sprayed from a boat (I assume). Most of us will have done similar on week trips, let's not pretend that a decision was made to maximise a particular session, it was probably hatched weeks before a bait and wait film that showed how to build a swim and maximise catches.
Where I think bait is super important and quality matters is on the more normal type situations, where fewer mouths have a choice. Especially in winter, fish that don't really need to feed have to be tempted (or annoyed) enough to take a bait. In these situations I would much rather have the very best possible than bag fulls of ‘good' bait.
A bait that is absolutely the best it can be, whilst you probably won't get anything better than naturals, I enjoy trying. I love pitting my wits against not just the fish but other anglers who buy 5kg of sawdust shelf life baits off eBay.
We all know that sometimes you will get your arse kicked by a worse bait, a worse rig, or lazy location - but I'd prefer to struggle doing my best that sit behind bait, rigs and spots and take my turn doing exactly the same as the other 90%.
So does bait matter - probably not as much as we think it does.
Does confidence matter and doing the very best - I think so. I also have very lazy sessions when I just want to go fishing and sit there for a few hours not really expecting to catch - often trying to learn a new lake but in the days of all the gadgets the only edges left and out of reach of the herd is bait science, rig science and 6th sense location.
In reply to Post #21
Quote... Look at Tom stockes, fishing some of the best waters to Norton Disney.
But you are looking at that part the slightly wrong way mate. You are looking at it through a pure carp anglers eyes. Someone who I imagine watched Toms fishing before he was fishing for work orientated reasons and respected what he done. When he would be carp fishing for himself, his owns goals or achievements.
He gave that up clearly to work for Korda. I will bet large amounts of cash that those places he now fishes you refer too, coincide with the needs of his employer to promote their new fisheries to you. And other people who like to follow his angling. Clearly does not work for you. But it will be working for Embryo with other more impressionable, maybe younger anglers to put bums on seats at the new lakes. That's his job now.
Tom is clearly happy with the situation and gets to fish everyday. Good luck to him. Always comes across as a nice young bloke.
Quote... Look at Tom stockes, fishing some of the best waters to Norton Disney.
But you are looking at that part the slightly wrong way mate. You are looking at it through a pure carp anglers eyes. Someone who I imagine watched Toms fishing before he was fishing for work orientated reasons and respected what he done. When he would be carp fishing for himself, his owns goals or achievements.
He gave that up clearly to work for Korda. I will bet large amounts of cash that those places he now fishes you refer too, coincide with the needs of his employer to promote their new fisheries to you. And other people who like to follow his angling. Clearly does not work for you. But it will be working for Embryo with other more impressionable, maybe younger anglers to put bums on seats at the new lakes. That's his job now.
Tom is clearly happy with the situation and gets to fish everyday. Good luck to him. Always comes across as a nice young bloke.
In reply to Post #25
Quote.... For me I always wonder if the bait that the sponsored anglers get is the same bait as everyone else.
Of course it is mate. That's just a common misconception a lot of carpers can gossip about whilst blanking once to often in my opinion. It's always someone or something else's fault. We all can do it. It just don't happen though in reality. No one's got no time for that shizzle whatsoever. If they have the time to do stuff like that, they are not doing so well.
Sponsored anglers or blokes that get sorted out for helping with photos etc always get sorted out AFTER the paying customers. No ifs, no buts, no maybes. And if that's not happening at the bait firm you use, you should change them for someone else. You're spoilt for choice.
Quote.... For me I always wonder if the bait that the sponsored anglers get is the same bait as everyone else.
Of course it is mate. That's just a common misconception a lot of carpers can gossip about whilst blanking once to often in my opinion. It's always someone or something else's fault. We all can do it. It just don't happen though in reality. No one's got no time for that shizzle whatsoever. If they have the time to do stuff like that, they are not doing so well.
Sponsored anglers or blokes that get sorted out for helping with photos etc always get sorted out AFTER the paying customers. No ifs, no buts, no maybes. And if that's not happening at the bait firm you use, you should change them for someone else. You're spoilt for choice.
I agree with you mark the bait for sponsors is the same as Joe Public
One of my old friends was sponsored by mainline still is i think and he never pays a penny for bait
We was having a conversation years ago and always remember saying you must use this super duper wonder bait no one else gets and he started laughing and said your kidding im using straight out the bag cell I wasn't having it I said he must have a special prototype being sponsored and what he said next made the penny drop for me he said
Why would I fish a bait the fish have never seen when evey lake up and down the country is getting prebated for me week in week out with cell in wouldn't make any sense to fish on anything else
At the time cell was in its heyday and he was doing a lot of carp matches it was a staple diet for most day ticket fisheries
Opened my eyes
One of my old friends was sponsored by mainline still is i think and he never pays a penny for bait
We was having a conversation years ago and always remember saying you must use this super duper wonder bait no one else gets and he started laughing and said your kidding im using straight out the bag cell I wasn't having it I said he must have a special prototype being sponsored and what he said next made the penny drop for me he said
Why would I fish a bait the fish have never seen when evey lake up and down the country is getting prebated for me week in week out with cell in wouldn't make any sense to fish on anything else
At the time cell was in its heyday and he was doing a lot of carp matches it was a staple diet for most day ticket fisheries
Opened my eyes
In reply to Post #1
First thing I would want to know. How long was he on for?
What's the stock of “40s”
Also, he may have a trial bait or something with a twist?
Was he doing something different to the norm. And don't forget, he will have some good info on the place from the people he knows, a massive, if not, the edge!
To be fair, very successful angler
First thing I would want to know. How long was he on for?
What's the stock of “40s”
Also, he may have a trial bait or something with a twist?
Was he doing something different to the norm. And don't forget, he will have some good info on the place from the people he knows, a massive, if not, the edge!
To be fair, very successful angler
In reply to Post #31
I fully agree mate great angler and a nice chap. But there's no way on earth he'd fish Norton Disney if it wasn't for work.
I personally wouldn't give up the way I like to fish just to be able to fish full time, it would ruin the passion. He likely still fishes some top waters but he won't get the same time and results.
Nice to have free kit and bait but it's got to be worth it, look at Terry Hearn he's never had to fish commercial puddles to do so.
Each to their own and I wish him all the best. He's fished a few lakes very local to me, very difficult lakes and hard to get on and by all accounts had some great results.
I fully agree mate great angler and a nice chap. But there's no way on earth he'd fish Norton Disney if it wasn't for work.
I personally wouldn't give up the way I like to fish just to be able to fish full time, it would ruin the passion. He likely still fishes some top waters but he won't get the same time and results.
Nice to have free kit and bait but it's got to be worth it, look at Terry Hearn he's never had to fish commercial puddles to do so.
Each to their own and I wish him all the best. He's fished a few lakes very local to me, very difficult lakes and hard to get on and by all accounts had some great results.
In reply to Post #33
He was never lying to you. The thought that Mainline, or anyone else similar are going to make some extra special bait for sponsored anglers is a farcical one in so many ways. Bait companies are holding back extra special baits from the public? Think about that really hard. It makes no sense apart from as an excuse when someone blanked. Like your mate pointed out to you, no one is going to sit on the toughest pits in the land wasting their valuable time fishing for the fish of dreams using stuff they don't have 100% confidence in. So it always has to be the same, unless you're playing at the game. That just is never happening. Only during gossip around carp lakes. But it's something that gets said a lot.
Micky Gray is a member of this forum. Thicky. It was the old gits 60th birthday a few days ago. Happy birthday Mick. Up until just after he caught SOTR from Dinton White Swan, Nigh on every carp that he caught over a number of years was on an S2. You might not have seen them apart from in his books because of publicity bans. For many years, he along with Ricci and Cash were the only three anglers to receive free hook baits from me whenever they asked. That has changed now. But that's how it was for a long time.
Thicky can come tell you for himself if he ever received anything different or special from me. He never. Sure things need to be tested and trailed. But in terms of the S2 that Micky always got from me for free, they would be the EXACT same ones that anyone would buy from us. Just like your friend with his Cell from Mainline.
He was never lying to you. The thought that Mainline, or anyone else similar are going to make some extra special bait for sponsored anglers is a farcical one in so many ways. Bait companies are holding back extra special baits from the public? Think about that really hard. It makes no sense apart from as an excuse when someone blanked. Like your mate pointed out to you, no one is going to sit on the toughest pits in the land wasting their valuable time fishing for the fish of dreams using stuff they don't have 100% confidence in. So it always has to be the same, unless you're playing at the game. That just is never happening. Only during gossip around carp lakes. But it's something that gets said a lot.
Micky Gray is a member of this forum. Thicky. It was the old gits 60th birthday a few days ago. Happy birthday Mick. Up until just after he caught SOTR from Dinton White Swan, Nigh on every carp that he caught over a number of years was on an S2. You might not have seen them apart from in his books because of publicity bans. For many years, he along with Ricci and Cash were the only three anglers to receive free hook baits from me whenever they asked. That has changed now. But that's how it was for a long time.
Thicky can come tell you for himself if he ever received anything different or special from me. He never. Sure things need to be tested and trailed. But in terms of the S2 that Micky always got from me for free, they would be the EXACT same ones that anyone would buy from us. Just like your friend with his Cell from Mainline.
In reply to Post #36
You might not have seen them apart from in his books because of publicity bans
I know you don't use SM so wanted to mention that Micky has one of my favourite Instagram accounts in all of carp fishing - lots of beautiful fish
Well worth a look - https://www.instagram.com/mickygray741/
You might not have seen them apart from in his books because of publicity bans
I know you don't use SM so wanted to mention that Micky has one of my favourite Instagram accounts in all of carp fishing - lots of beautiful fish
Well worth a look - https://www.instagram.com/mickygray741/
In reply to Post #37
I see it Jamie. That's how I knew it was his birthday the other day. Not swallowing that he's only 60 either 🤡
He's not as shy now as he was a few years ago. See them all over. I hope he's getting punished with PM's 😂
I see it Jamie. That's how I knew it was his birthday the other day. Not swallowing that he's only 60 either 🤡
He's not as shy now as he was a few years ago. See them all over. I hope he's getting punished with PM's 😂
In reply to Post #1
Bait rules on venues play a huge part as well. Grenville is a boilie only water, that's all they see so they don't get preoccupied on particles/pellet/naturals and there is so much going in there of different brands/shapes/sizes/colours that for me bait, (as in type of boilie) matters not one jot on Grenvilles, put it in the right place, in vast quantities and they will eat it.
Most of Darrells fish came in short bursts straight after the bait had been put out by boat, once they had moved in and hoovered it up the bites dried up until the next boat drop....rinse and repeat...
Darrells main edge on there, (apart from an infinite supply of bait) is that he can accurately put a baited rig 150 yards plus.
So yes, to answer your question, success on Greville is down to a large quantity of bait which is being dropped from a boat onto a spot that Darrell hits with consummate ease and accuracy. He's not getting any special treatment down there, any member could get a bait drop, the majority though probably wont be able to afford the quantity of bait or be able to fish in the same manner.
Bait rules on venues play a huge part as well. Grenville is a boilie only water, that's all they see so they don't get preoccupied on particles/pellet/naturals and there is so much going in there of different brands/shapes/sizes/colours that for me bait, (as in type of boilie) matters not one jot on Grenvilles, put it in the right place, in vast quantities and they will eat it.
Most of Darrells fish came in short bursts straight after the bait had been put out by boat, once they had moved in and hoovered it up the bites dried up until the next boat drop....rinse and repeat...
Darrells main edge on there, (apart from an infinite supply of bait) is that he can accurately put a baited rig 150 yards plus.
So yes, to answer your question, success on Greville is down to a large quantity of bait which is being dropped from a boat onto a spot that Darrell hits with consummate ease and accuracy. He's not getting any special treatment down there, any member could get a bait drop, the majority though probably wont be able to afford the quantity of bait or be able to fish in the same manner.
In reply to Post #36
Is it not well documented that Dave Lane as an example has used baits that the public don't have there hands on yet, field testers, same as most field testers.I always thought activ 8 was a great bait seeing what it had caught at the time, and one bailiff once said to me, these fish have been brought up on activ 8 until on lad from a bait company came along and took over 20 fish one weekend whilst most others were caning the activ 8 in for nothing. And for the record, I still believe activ 8 is a good bait.
It's an interesting thought thought because, just imagine if only one bait could be used by all on a lake. then it would be spot fishing or would people still believe it's all down to rigs when others are catching and some are not
Is it not well documented that Dave Lane as an example has used baits that the public don't have there hands on yet, field testers, same as most field testers.I always thought activ 8 was a great bait seeing what it had caught at the time, and one bailiff once said to me, these fish have been brought up on activ 8 until on lad from a bait company came along and took over 20 fish one weekend whilst most others were caning the activ 8 in for nothing. And for the record, I still believe activ 8 is a good bait.
It's an interesting thought thought because, just imagine if only one bait could be used by all on a lake. then it would be spot fishing or would people still believe it's all down to rigs when others are catching and some are not
when I used to get bait from mainline it would either be a named released bait or just called 'new' which was something being field tested.
if I asked for 10kg cell then I got a tube with cell written on it, containing the same bait that I could buy in my local tackle shop. I can't think of a single time where it was different to what I expected (they are all pretty unique & easily identifiable)
if I got a new bait, I had no idea what it would be & the tube just had new written on it. it was very rare that I got the same bait more than once - I think it was the new grange which was being trialed at the time & it varied in color, taste & smell - I don't think I had anything that was the same as the released bait. when reporting on captures in the press, this would usually be shown as "on a new bait from mainline" or "on a test bait from mainline"
Wrt to only a single bait being used on a water - Simon Pomery insists that only his boilies are used on his lakes & I think RH fisheries encourage it as well? I have no idea what goes in Pom's baits but from what I have been told the RH baits are balanced & very good for the fish.
if I asked for 10kg cell then I got a tube with cell written on it, containing the same bait that I could buy in my local tackle shop. I can't think of a single time where it was different to what I expected (they are all pretty unique & easily identifiable)
if I got a new bait, I had no idea what it would be & the tube just had new written on it. it was very rare that I got the same bait more than once - I think it was the new grange which was being trialed at the time & it varied in color, taste & smell - I don't think I had anything that was the same as the released bait. when reporting on captures in the press, this would usually be shown as "on a new bait from mainline" or "on a test bait from mainline"
Wrt to only a single bait being used on a water - Simon Pomery insists that only his boilies are used on his lakes & I think RH fisheries encourage it as well? I have no idea what goes in Pom's baits but from what I have been told the RH baits are balanced & very good for the fish.
In reply to Post #41
It's interesting, because that takes away an edge from everyone, kind of levels it off. Then you could look at glugs and soaks etc for a twist. Imagine coming along on there with something they have not seen before
I bet some people do
It's interesting, because that takes away an edge from everyone, kind of levels it off. Then you could look at glugs and soaks etc for a twist. Imagine coming along on there with something they have not seen before
I bet some people do
In reply to Post #42
It's just marketing and cornering that market to the exclusion of all competition under the guise of 'fish welfare.
It's just marketing and cornering that market to the exclusion of all competition under the guise of 'fish welfare.
In reply to Post #40
Quote....Is it not well documented that Dave Lane as an example has used baits that the public don't have there hands on yet, field testers, same as most field testers.
Of course, as I said in my post things need testing. You only give stuff that needs testing to people who A) go fishing a lot, and B) who you will get the required feedback from.
But that is not what is being alluded too whatsoever. What was being alluded to is that he would be getting some souped up better version of the baits than what are available to the public. Getting better bait than the paying customers.
That's just bad anglers, making excuses as to why good anglers catch, and they do not.
Bait companies can't afford to hold back special baits, they will go out of business. Rapidly. Why would a bait company want to make for example DL look special? They are in the business of making money, not making sponsored anglers look better. DL catches what he catches because he is a top of the tree angler, not because he gets some special bait that other paying members of the public do not get.
It's standard carp fishing. Anglers always need an excuse for inside their own heads as to why someone else catches more than them. An intelligent person accepts it's just because they are far better at the game than they themselves are. Improves themself off the back of it. A unintelligent person will always look for excuses. "They are only better than me as they have an unfair advantage".
If it makes them feel better about themselves, triffic. It does not stop the fact that DL gets the exact same Cell that they do. Yes he might get newer stuff to trail.... But there's far more chance that is terrible and does not work, than some unfair advantage over others.
Quote....Is it not well documented that Dave Lane as an example has used baits that the public don't have there hands on yet, field testers, same as most field testers.
Of course, as I said in my post things need testing. You only give stuff that needs testing to people who A) go fishing a lot, and B) who you will get the required feedback from.
But that is not what is being alluded too whatsoever. What was being alluded to is that he would be getting some souped up better version of the baits than what are available to the public. Getting better bait than the paying customers.
That's just bad anglers, making excuses as to why good anglers catch, and they do not.
Bait companies can't afford to hold back special baits, they will go out of business. Rapidly. Why would a bait company want to make for example DL look special? They are in the business of making money, not making sponsored anglers look better. DL catches what he catches because he is a top of the tree angler, not because he gets some special bait that other paying members of the public do not get.
It's standard carp fishing. Anglers always need an excuse for inside their own heads as to why someone else catches more than them. An intelligent person accepts it's just because they are far better at the game than they themselves are. Improves themself off the back of it. A unintelligent person will always look for excuses. "They are only better than me as they have an unfair advantage".
If it makes them feel better about themselves, triffic. It does not stop the fact that DL gets the exact same Cell that they do. Yes he might get newer stuff to trail.... But there's far more chance that is terrible and does not work, than some unfair advantage over others.
In reply to Post #44
Thinking sponsored anglers don't get special treatment is incredibly naive. It's funny you mention Dave Lane because I had a walk round a syndicate last summer and the owner who was showing me round just happened to mention DL had done some filming there recently.
The owner also mentioned, for 2 weeks prior a swim had been cordoned off for Dave and prebaited every day.
I suspect this kind of thing happens a lot for celebrity anglers and it makes sense from a commercial perspective. Now I'm not saying celebrity anglers do or don't get better bait than the public but they do get preferable treatment in other areas of their angling, treatment is mere mortals could only dream of
Thinking sponsored anglers don't get special treatment is incredibly naive. It's funny you mention Dave Lane because I had a walk round a syndicate last summer and the owner who was showing me round just happened to mention DL had done some filming there recently.
The owner also mentioned, for 2 weeks prior a swim had been cordoned off for Dave and prebaited every day.
I suspect this kind of thing happens a lot for celebrity anglers and it makes sense from a commercial perspective. Now I'm not saying celebrity anglers do or don't get better bait than the public but they do get preferable treatment in other areas of their angling, treatment is mere mortals could only dream of
In reply to Post #45
That's for filming purposes though. Do you think he gets that treatment when he's fishing on his own time? He is just the same as everyone else.
That's for filming purposes though. Do you think he gets that treatment when he's fishing on his own time? He is just the same as everyone else.
In reply to Post #45
Quote.... Thinking sponsored anglers don't get special treatment is incredibly naive. It's funny you mention Dave Lane.
Firstly, I did not bring up Dave Lane, others did.
We are talking about specific things regarding bait. Not what you are now talking about, regarding what's happening down your syndicate. The bait sponsored anglers get is what the conversation was about. I have no clue what goes on down your noddy syndicate to upset you. Don't really want to know either. I'd say all that makes you a bit naive for fishing places like that. When DL was fishing Wraysbury, or the Mere for example, none of what you are talking about would of happened. That's stuff that happens on day tickets and noddy syndicates. If they allow stuff like that, it's a noddy syndicate. You have taken the conversation somewhere else now based on your own personal grievances. Roping off swims for pre baiting has zero to do with what was being spoken about.
I do have experience of both sides of getting, and giving out free bait though. No one gets souped up special versions of anything. It would be totally counterproductive to any bait company. They will release the very best baits that they have to the public. All sponsored anglers will want to use that exact bait. Not testing anything at all while doing their own serious fishing on the proper pits. They will test stuff that needs trailing on easier venues 99% of the time.
It's a business for the bait companies, certainly not the business of making sponsored anglers look better.
That's all.
Quote.... Thinking sponsored anglers don't get special treatment is incredibly naive. It's funny you mention Dave Lane.
Firstly, I did not bring up Dave Lane, others did.
We are talking about specific things regarding bait. Not what you are now talking about, regarding what's happening down your syndicate. The bait sponsored anglers get is what the conversation was about. I have no clue what goes on down your noddy syndicate to upset you. Don't really want to know either. I'd say all that makes you a bit naive for fishing places like that. When DL was fishing Wraysbury, or the Mere for example, none of what you are talking about would of happened. That's stuff that happens on day tickets and noddy syndicates. If they allow stuff like that, it's a noddy syndicate. You have taken the conversation somewhere else now based on your own personal grievances. Roping off swims for pre baiting has zero to do with what was being spoken about.
I do have experience of both sides of getting, and giving out free bait though. No one gets souped up special versions of anything. It would be totally counterproductive to any bait company. They will release the very best baits that they have to the public. All sponsored anglers will want to use that exact bait. Not testing anything at all while doing their own serious fishing on the proper pits. They will test stuff that needs trailing on easier venues 99% of the time.
It's a business for the bait companies, certainly not the business of making sponsored anglers look better.
That's all.
In reply to Post #47
But you did mention DL, so..
The crux of your argument is that sponsored anglers don't get preferential treatment, which I proved to be incorrect. If someone like DL gets a swim cordoned off and prebaited what says he's not getting a better bait than what is sold to the public.
It's also not my syndicate, if you had taken the time to read my post you would have known it was a syndicate i walked around last year. I chose not to join so I have no idea where you got the notion I am upset, again I'm simply pointing out that celebrity anglers get preferential treatment, this isn't a hard concept to grasp but you appear to be struggling for some odd reason.
Also calling an unnamed water you know absolutely nothing about a “noddy syndicate” is extremely big headed of you.
Just because you have not given out “souped up” baits doesn't mean it doesn't happen elsewhere.
Sponsored anglers are salesmen so it's in the companies best interest to show them catching lots of big fish, just look at darrel pecks recent video for mainline, 7 40's in one session is probably the best advertising mainline could ever have. They don't give a crap if you or I blank on their bait. As long as social media is full of their sponsored anglers bagging up they'll sell tons of bait.
Again talking of mainline, when iso fish came out spooner did a film on one of the embryo lakes and of course he bagged up and yet this very forum has proved the bait is actually pretty bang average. So have mainline released the “best” bait they can with ISO fish or are they relying on their sponsored anglers to promote an average bait to their gullible fan base.
But you did mention DL, so..
The crux of your argument is that sponsored anglers don't get preferential treatment, which I proved to be incorrect. If someone like DL gets a swim cordoned off and prebaited what says he's not getting a better bait than what is sold to the public.
It's also not my syndicate, if you had taken the time to read my post you would have known it was a syndicate i walked around last year. I chose not to join so I have no idea where you got the notion I am upset, again I'm simply pointing out that celebrity anglers get preferential treatment, this isn't a hard concept to grasp but you appear to be struggling for some odd reason.
Also calling an unnamed water you know absolutely nothing about a “noddy syndicate” is extremely big headed of you.
Just because you have not given out “souped up” baits doesn't mean it doesn't happen elsewhere.
Sponsored anglers are salesmen so it's in the companies best interest to show them catching lots of big fish, just look at darrel pecks recent video for mainline, 7 40's in one session is probably the best advertising mainline could ever have. They don't give a crap if you or I blank on their bait. As long as social media is full of their sponsored anglers bagging up they'll sell tons of bait.
Again talking of mainline, when iso fish came out spooner did a film on one of the embryo lakes and of course he bagged up and yet this very forum has proved the bait is actually pretty bang average. So have mainline released the “best” bait they can with ISO fish or are they relying on their sponsored anglers to promote an average bait to their gullible fan base.
And here's the other side to the same stories that get portrayed by anglers not catching them. When I fished on Roach Pit and was smashing them.... Locals would be telling anyone and everyone that I was receiving some kind of special treatment. NOTHING could have been further from the truth.
The day I caught The linear and Barbs as a brace of 40's, I was made to leave a day early, despite having carp all over me. There was a three day rule. We were required to do a mandatory work party for a day. I had gone down to the lake a day earlier than usual to do my work party. Even asked if that would be okay. I did that so I would not lose fishing time. I had landed a brace of 40's just two weeks previous. I worked like a dog for the owner, for filled my obligation to do a work party. Now I had my three days to fish, so I thought.
After I banked the Linear I had been fishing for 48 hours, the linear which everyone including the owner was desperate to catch.... I was made to leave. Told I had been on the lake for three nights (I'd only fished for two). This was only because of what I had just caught. I was physically stopped from catching anymore. This was not the only time similar happened. Another episode, which would ultimately lead to contributing to the death of those fish in my opinion.
If you listened to any of the blanking locals, you would be told I was being favoured and that's why I was catching so many while they were blanking. The actual reality could never have been any more different. When the owner fishes the lake and wants to catch them too, that's never going to be the case. Whoever is catching them all will become the enemy in that moment of jealousy.
The above was apologised to me at at a later date. They knew what they done was bang out of order, they just did not want me to speak about it in Carpworld is all.
The day I caught The linear and Barbs as a brace of 40's, I was made to leave a day early, despite having carp all over me. There was a three day rule. We were required to do a mandatory work party for a day. I had gone down to the lake a day earlier than usual to do my work party. Even asked if that would be okay. I did that so I would not lose fishing time. I had landed a brace of 40's just two weeks previous. I worked like a dog for the owner, for filled my obligation to do a work party. Now I had my three days to fish, so I thought.
After I banked the Linear I had been fishing for 48 hours, the linear which everyone including the owner was desperate to catch.... I was made to leave. Told I had been on the lake for three nights (I'd only fished for two). This was only because of what I had just caught. I was physically stopped from catching anymore. This was not the only time similar happened. Another episode, which would ultimately lead to contributing to the death of those fish in my opinion.
If you listened to any of the blanking locals, you would be told I was being favoured and that's why I was catching so many while they were blanking. The actual reality could never have been any more different. When the owner fishes the lake and wants to catch them too, that's never going to be the case. Whoever is catching them all will become the enemy in that moment of jealousy.
The above was apologised to me at at a later date. They knew what they done was bang out of order, they just did not want me to speak about it in Carpworld is all.
In reply to Post #48
Quote... But you did mention DL, so... The crux of your argument is that sponsored anglers don't get preferential treatment, which I proved to be incorrect
What are you going on about fella?
You changed the subject matter to suit yourself, whilst calling me naive.
We were talking about sponsored anglers receiving extra special bait, which you seem convinced goes on. You carry on fella believing whatever you want. The reality is not what you think. The idea that some bait company is going to produce special stuff for some sponsored angler is a completely stupid one. No ones got no time for that.
I have people offering me completely stupid amounts of money to do special stuff of their choice for them. I have always refused, because it's just not worth the aggro. It shows a level of ignorance about the aggro involved to do things like this for a bait firm, that you simply do not understand.
You proved nothing. Only silly things inside your head. If it makes you feel better about yourself to believe this stuff, more power to your elbow I say. But it does not make it the truth.
Quote... But you did mention DL, so... The crux of your argument is that sponsored anglers don't get preferential treatment, which I proved to be incorrect
What are you going on about fella?
You changed the subject matter to suit yourself, whilst calling me naive.
We were talking about sponsored anglers receiving extra special bait, which you seem convinced goes on. You carry on fella believing whatever you want. The reality is not what you think. The idea that some bait company is going to produce special stuff for some sponsored angler is a completely stupid one. No ones got no time for that.
I have people offering me completely stupid amounts of money to do special stuff of their choice for them. I have always refused, because it's just not worth the aggro. It shows a level of ignorance about the aggro involved to do things like this for a bait firm, that you simply do not understand.
You proved nothing. Only silly things inside your head. If it makes you feel better about yourself to believe this stuff, more power to your elbow I say. But it does not make it the truth.
In reply to Post #50
TBF he didn't call you naive, you did however, write:
" I'd say all that makes you a bit naive for fishing places like that."
Opinions are just that, some may think otherwise, that's their opinion.
TBF he didn't call you naive, you did however, write:
" I'd say all that makes you a bit naive for fishing places like that."
Opinions are just that, some may think otherwise, that's their opinion.
If anyone whatsoever wants to know or understand why I do not post in any other threads apart from the SHB one regarding bait.... Look at the Garlic hemp thread.
https://www.carpforum.co.uk/Shared/Messages.asp?TopicID=428451&ReadAll=1
What you will see from the posts that remain, is literally all fake profiles. Fake profiles now banned. MrMoo was Dean. You will see him sucking up to me. He had already puclicly declared on here he was going to bring down our business within a year. Various others posting in that thread, the whole enzyme crew on fake profiles. They come back time after time after time. They always swarm around me. They all support each other, and are only ever interested in causing a row. The exact same was happening when Mozzi was here. He was from the same little crowd of misfits. He had all his imaginary friends agreeing with him constantly. They do not just have fake profiles on here. They do the same on faceache in the groups. The poor lad who sent me a friend request just before committing suicide. I did not accept it. I can't anymore with people I do not know personally. That's because these blokes got fake profiles onto my personal social media previously.
Makes me very wary these days. Last year they had fake profiles that were here for more than a year. Making out they were disgruntled customers for a whole year in the shadows/background. Imagine having the time to do stuff like this out of pure spite. Imagine the mental state of people capable of such crap.
Makes me remember instantly to just steer clear of talking about anything bait related whatsoever.
I was stupid to post here in this thread. I was stupid to try to alleviate anglers fears that sponsored anglers are getting stuff they can't have. Banging your head against a brick wall and expecting a different result every time is insanity.
Let's just leave it there. You believe whatever you want. Some of you seem to have agendas about what people are up too. It always revolves around bait.
https://www.carpforum.co.uk/Shared/Messages.asp?TopicID=428451&ReadAll=1
What you will see from the posts that remain, is literally all fake profiles. Fake profiles now banned. MrMoo was Dean. You will see him sucking up to me. He had already puclicly declared on here he was going to bring down our business within a year. Various others posting in that thread, the whole enzyme crew on fake profiles. They come back time after time after time. They always swarm around me. They all support each other, and are only ever interested in causing a row. The exact same was happening when Mozzi was here. He was from the same little crowd of misfits. He had all his imaginary friends agreeing with him constantly. They do not just have fake profiles on here. They do the same on faceache in the groups. The poor lad who sent me a friend request just before committing suicide. I did not accept it. I can't anymore with people I do not know personally. That's because these blokes got fake profiles onto my personal social media previously.
Makes me very wary these days. Last year they had fake profiles that were here for more than a year. Making out they were disgruntled customers for a whole year in the shadows/background. Imagine having the time to do stuff like this out of pure spite. Imagine the mental state of people capable of such crap.
Makes me remember instantly to just steer clear of talking about anything bait related whatsoever.
I was stupid to post here in this thread. I was stupid to try to alleviate anglers fears that sponsored anglers are getting stuff they can't have. Banging your head against a brick wall and expecting a different result every time is insanity.
Let's just leave it there. You believe whatever you want. Some of you seem to have agendas about what people are up too. It always revolves around bait.
In reply to Post #48
Quote.... Also calling an unnamed water you know absolutely nothing about a “noddy syndicate” is extremely big headed of you.
Go on then, I will have a little nibble on your much later post edit.
What else would you call it? If an owner is taking large sums of money off of paying members into a syndicate, yet setting up situations for sponsored anglers like you are describing? I'd call it a nod pond, yes.
I've been on both sides of the sponsored angler receiving AND giving bait. So unlike you, I am not guessing, or using other unrelated instances to try to prove a point. I've had free bait from different bait companies. I've never been given or offered anything different to what any paying customer would get. I've given out more free stuff than you could EVER purchase in five lifetimes. No one has ever had anything like what you are referring too from me.
Just because you saw (or heard) of some swim get roped off for DL. It does not make you an expert on all things regarding what sponsored anglers get or don't get. I have no association with Mainline, I certainly have no reason whatsoever to defend them. I just know what you are alluding to is absolute crap.
As for DP catching 7 x 40's. There are over 2000 carp in that place. You speak of it like it is something special what he has done. Stop sucking down the media. It will likely stop you coming up with all these conspiracy theories inside your own head about what's happening. You are by your own admissions guessing. Yet at the same time this forum has proved that Mainline sell crap bait, and you have proved in your own head that sponsored anglers are getting super bait that you can't have.
It's all fantasy laa laa land stuff. But do not let that stop you. After all you were told a swim was roped off for DL. You now know it all apparently.
Quote.... Also calling an unnamed water you know absolutely nothing about a “noddy syndicate” is extremely big headed of you.
Go on then, I will have a little nibble on your much later post edit.
What else would you call it? If an owner is taking large sums of money off of paying members into a syndicate, yet setting up situations for sponsored anglers like you are describing? I'd call it a nod pond, yes.
I've been on both sides of the sponsored angler receiving AND giving bait. So unlike you, I am not guessing, or using other unrelated instances to try to prove a point. I've had free bait from different bait companies. I've never been given or offered anything different to what any paying customer would get. I've given out more free stuff than you could EVER purchase in five lifetimes. No one has ever had anything like what you are referring too from me.
Just because you saw (or heard) of some swim get roped off for DL. It does not make you an expert on all things regarding what sponsored anglers get or don't get. I have no association with Mainline, I certainly have no reason whatsoever to defend them. I just know what you are alluding to is absolute crap.
As for DP catching 7 x 40's. There are over 2000 carp in that place. You speak of it like it is something special what he has done. Stop sucking down the media. It will likely stop you coming up with all these conspiracy theories inside your own head about what's happening. You are by your own admissions guessing. Yet at the same time this forum has proved that Mainline sell crap bait, and you have proved in your own head that sponsored anglers are getting super bait that you can't have.
It's all fantasy laa laa land stuff. But do not let that stop you. After all you were told a swim was roped off for DL. You now know it all apparently.
I have never seen proof anywhere that mainline produce crap bait.
The ingredients listed don't look great but they are quite clearly labelled that way to stop people knowing what's in them.ive seen opinions that they're crap but that's not proof.
Just because they don't list loads of fancy ingredients doesn't make them crap. It just means they don't align with a 50 year old theory on what makes a good carp bait that everyone seems to think is gospel.
By that thinking, tiger nut, peanuts, sweetcorn & hemp are crap baits &we all know how good they are.
Mainline baits catch from most waters without any prebaiting & will continue to catch fish for many years after they were first used.Theres a reason they are the biggest bait company that has stood the test of time and yit's not because they're crap.
The ingredients listed don't look great but they are quite clearly labelled that way to stop people knowing what's in them.ive seen opinions that they're crap but that's not proof.
Just because they don't list loads of fancy ingredients doesn't make them crap. It just means they don't align with a 50 year old theory on what makes a good carp bait that everyone seems to think is gospel.
By that thinking, tiger nut, peanuts, sweetcorn & hemp are crap baits &we all know how good they are.
Mainline baits catch from most waters without any prebaiting & will continue to catch fish for many years after they were first used.Theres a reason they are the biggest bait company that has stood the test of time and yit's not because they're crap.
In reply to Post #54
Absolute nail on the head Jamie. All completely factual too.
The only people you will ever see saying that Mainline bait is crap, are anglers connected to other bait firms. Or people who have a vested interest in doing similar. Because they want what Mainline have for themselves. Dreamers.
It's the same as you will only ever hear my hook baits referred to as 'magic', by people connected to other bait firms and it always precedes some kind of attack. No one here is calling anything magic. Only idiots who wish they had our reach or customer base.
Do you now see why I reacted very badly when a group of you that had products and services to sell turned up at the same time? I hope you do. Because that always spells big trouble for me personally regarding this forum. At the same time people were trying to get the SHB threads removed. At the same time as numerous other fake profiles are bad mouthing my business on the sly.
You have to take the bad with the good. There will come a point when the bad far outweighs the good. Then they get what they want, they win. They already stopped me speaking to this forum about bait for the past five years. I stay out of anything now. Why bother? The people who will swarm around me, first trying to gain information, later on an all out attack. It will always be connected to other (failing/failed) bait firms.
It really upset me that I did not accept that young mans friend request. He comes from Gravesend. Same place as Enzyme Dean. It's their fake profiles and weird internet games that stopped me accepting that young mans friend request. I hate them mugs even more for that. I am lost how people can become so obsessed about someone. PeteB sent me a very strange message on the RMC forum 25 years ago. It was to inform me that all the fish I had just banked from Sutton as a new member were not that big in the greater scheme of things. It was a truly strange PM to send to a complete stranger. Long before SHB. But it kinda showed the strangeness of everything. I knew it was really about me posting those threads about bait. The hemp one, the cured boilies one. And more importantly people saying nice things to me. That is what kills these people more than anything. Put your head above the parapet on the internet, strange bait folks appear. It's a shame that they are so obsessed with this forum. It's not just them though. The same was going on very recently with Wayne & Bradders. Making their little plans of what to do next via PM. Creates really bad situations. Strange men on the internet with far to much time on their hands.
Absolute nail on the head Jamie. All completely factual too.
The only people you will ever see saying that Mainline bait is crap, are anglers connected to other bait firms. Or people who have a vested interest in doing similar. Because they want what Mainline have for themselves. Dreamers.
It's the same as you will only ever hear my hook baits referred to as 'magic', by people connected to other bait firms and it always precedes some kind of attack. No one here is calling anything magic. Only idiots who wish they had our reach or customer base.
Do you now see why I reacted very badly when a group of you that had products and services to sell turned up at the same time? I hope you do. Because that always spells big trouble for me personally regarding this forum. At the same time people were trying to get the SHB threads removed. At the same time as numerous other fake profiles are bad mouthing my business on the sly.
You have to take the bad with the good. There will come a point when the bad far outweighs the good. Then they get what they want, they win. They already stopped me speaking to this forum about bait for the past five years. I stay out of anything now. Why bother? The people who will swarm around me, first trying to gain information, later on an all out attack. It will always be connected to other (failing/failed) bait firms.
It really upset me that I did not accept that young mans friend request. He comes from Gravesend. Same place as Enzyme Dean. It's their fake profiles and weird internet games that stopped me accepting that young mans friend request. I hate them mugs even more for that. I am lost how people can become so obsessed about someone. PeteB sent me a very strange message on the RMC forum 25 years ago. It was to inform me that all the fish I had just banked from Sutton as a new member were not that big in the greater scheme of things. It was a truly strange PM to send to a complete stranger. Long before SHB. But it kinda showed the strangeness of everything. I knew it was really about me posting those threads about bait. The hemp one, the cured boilies one. And more importantly people saying nice things to me. That is what kills these people more than anything. Put your head above the parapet on the internet, strange bait folks appear. It's a shame that they are so obsessed with this forum. It's not just them though. The same was going on very recently with Wayne & Bradders. Making their little plans of what to do next via PM. Creates really bad situations. Strange men on the internet with far to much time on their hands.
In reply to Post #55
The good old cemex forum! I use to post on there as well as Chilli iirc, - I remember your posts some crackers on there and they certainly put a few fish on the bank for me. I use to enjoy reading them, one thing I alway thought about you was you are a great angler, not bad picking the horses but to top it all of you are an even better salesman. You missed you calling you should be doing that instead of stinking like a whores draws.
The good old cemex forum! I use to post on there as well as Chilli iirc, - I remember your posts some crackers on there and they certainly put a few fish on the bank for me. I use to enjoy reading them, one thing I alway thought about you was you are a great angler, not bad picking the horses but to top it all of you are an even better salesman. You missed you calling you should be doing that instead of stinking like a whores draws.
In reply to Post #54
I said ISO fish is “bang average” not crap. And considering what mainline charge for it, it is certainly nothing special.
I said ISO fish is “bang average” not crap. And considering what mainline charge for it, it is certainly nothing special.
In reply to Post #55
Your inability to read and comprehend what is being written is quite frankly astounding. I'm not going to bother answering every single one of your rambling points as in all honesty I can't be bothered and you will only twist them into something I didn't say in the first place.
Also, interesting tactic calling Dave lane a noddy.
Your inability to read and comprehend what is being written is quite frankly astounding. I'm not going to bother answering every single one of your rambling points as in all honesty I can't be bothered and you will only twist them into something I didn't say in the first place.
Also, interesting tactic calling Dave lane a noddy.
Keep making it up as you go along.
In reply to Post #59
I took a leaf out of your book
I took a leaf out of your book
In reply to Post #60
The only person making stuff up inside their head is you. It's quite scary really. All from what some syndicate boss told you about a swim being roped off.
It's made you an expert on how bang average Mainline bait is (another way of saying crap), and also how sponsored anglers get special bait that you cannot have.
I've given you real life experience about how and why you are wrong. You're not interested. You are convinced that you are correct. That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. Does not make any of it factual. Try living in the real world. The opinions that you carry will be factual. Not stuff that you are imagining.
The only person making stuff up inside their head is you. It's quite scary really. All from what some syndicate boss told you about a swim being roped off.
It's made you an expert on how bang average Mainline bait is (another way of saying crap), and also how sponsored anglers get special bait that you cannot have.
I've given you real life experience about how and why you are wrong. You're not interested. You are convinced that you are correct. That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. Does not make any of it factual. Try living in the real world. The opinions that you carry will be factual. Not stuff that you are imagining.
In reply to Post #61
I know how much you love a quote so here's the evidence of you making stuff up to fit your narrative.
Firstly I didn't say mainline is crap or bang average, what I actually wrote is “yet this very forum has proved the bait is actually pretty bang average”
As you will see. It's not me making a claim about mainline ISO fish but other members of the forum.
Secondly I didn't say sponsored anglers get special bait, what I actually wrote is
“Now I'm not saying celebrity anglers do or don't get better bait than the public”
Another example of you not comprehending what has been written and I quiote
“As for DP catching 7 x 40's. There are over 2000 carp in that place. You speak of it like it is something special what he has done. Stop sucking down the media. It will likely stop you coming up with all these conspiracy theories inside your own head about what's happening.”
What I actually said
“look at darrel pecks recent video for mainline, 7 40's in one session is probably the best advertising mainline could ever have. They don't give a crap if you or I blank on their bait. As long as social media is full of their sponsored anglers bagging up they'll sell tons of bait“
Your reply had absolutely nothing to do with the point i am making.
So like I said either you don't bother reading what is being written to you or you wilfully misinterpret it so you can go off on your long winded, I'm better than you, multi post rambling replies.
I know how much you love a quote so here's the evidence of you making stuff up to fit your narrative.
Firstly I didn't say mainline is crap or bang average, what I actually wrote is “yet this very forum has proved the bait is actually pretty bang average”
As you will see. It's not me making a claim about mainline ISO fish but other members of the forum.
Secondly I didn't say sponsored anglers get special bait, what I actually wrote is
“Now I'm not saying celebrity anglers do or don't get better bait than the public”
Another example of you not comprehending what has been written and I quiote
“As for DP catching 7 x 40's. There are over 2000 carp in that place. You speak of it like it is something special what he has done. Stop sucking down the media. It will likely stop you coming up with all these conspiracy theories inside your own head about what's happening.”
What I actually said
“look at darrel pecks recent video for mainline, 7 40's in one session is probably the best advertising mainline could ever have. They don't give a crap if you or I blank on their bait. As long as social media is full of their sponsored anglers bagging up they'll sell tons of bait“
Your reply had absolutely nothing to do with the point i am making.
So like I said either you don't bother reading what is being written to you or you wilfully misinterpret it so you can go off on your long winded, I'm better than you, multi post rambling replies.
Sometimes I wish I didn't bother posting or even reading this forum. I posted what I thought was a reasonable line of enquiry. Why do all bait threads have to be ruined by knobheads. If you want to act like a brat stay in the childrens playground. I'm glad I'm not T carper, nobody deserves such crap aimed at them.
In reply to Post #63
Right, let's all bow down to TC carper even when the guy wilfully misinterprets what is written so he can post his “I'm better than you BS”
Right, let's all bow down to TC carper even when the guy wilfully misinterprets what is written so he can post his “I'm better than you BS”
Quote.... They don't give a crap if you or I blank on their bait. As long as social media is full of their sponsored anglers bagging up they'll sell tons of bait.
Again talking of mainline, when iso fish came out spooner did a film on one of the embryo lakes and of course he bagged up and yet this very forum has proved the bait is actually pretty bang average. So have mainline released the “best” bait they can with ISO fish or are they relying on their sponsored anglers to promote an average bait to their gullible fan base.
They don't give a crap? This forum proved that their bait is bang average? Their customers are all gullible fans?
Go and have a lay down you silly mug. You came here making stupid childish statements. No one else.
Again talking of mainline, when iso fish came out spooner did a film on one of the embryo lakes and of course he bagged up and yet this very forum has proved the bait is actually pretty bang average. So have mainline released the “best” bait they can with ISO fish or are they relying on their sponsored anglers to promote an average bait to their gullible fan base.
They don't give a crap? This forum proved that their bait is bang average? Their customers are all gullible fans?
Go and have a lay down you silly mug. You came here making stupid childish statements. No one else.
In reply to Post #65
Still wilfully misinterpreting what I've written, and your second quote literally proves my point that I didn't say mainline are crap, talk about shooting yourself in the foot. The only mug here is you and you've even proven the point for me.
Still wilfully misinterpreting what I've written, and your second quote literally proves my point that I didn't say mainline are crap, talk about shooting yourself in the foot. The only mug here is you and you've even proven the point for me.
In reply to Post #65
And just for you, proof It wasn't me saying ISO fish is average https://www.carpforum.co.uk/Shared/Messages.asp?TopicID=442140&ReadAll=1
And just for you, proof It wasn't me saying ISO fish is average https://www.carpforum.co.uk/Shared/Messages.asp?TopicID=442140&ReadAll=1
Of course you are completely correct. You and the bait experts on CarpForum read what was written on the side of a bag of bait and you now know the minds of the biggest bait firm the UK has ever known. You even know their intentions.
Why am I arguing with you?
You're kinda special.
That below is a direct copy and paste quote of your post. You have a lovely evening.
Why am I arguing with you?
You're kinda special.
That below is a direct copy and paste quote of your post. You have a lovely evening.
In reply to Post #68
Speechless, just speechless.
Speechless, just speechless.
I just corrected a post from earlier and added a link, it was the garlic hemp thread, not the maize as I wrongly put earlier. Link here. MrMoo is Dean Cowell. He'd just been banned not long before with his friends for terrorising me on here for ages. Swearing to bring my business down. Here he is under a fake profile asking me lots of questions with his pals about the garlic just weeks later.
I can't talk about bait on here. I cannot help the genuine ones among you. Because there are so many un genuine ones. It's so hard to tell the difference with new members for me these days. I've mentioned it the past few days. Look what happens today.
https://www.carpforum.co.uk/Shared/Messages.asp?TopicID=428451&ReadAll=1
I can't talk about bait on here. I cannot help the genuine ones among you. Because there are so many un genuine ones. It's so hard to tell the difference with new members for me these days. I've mentioned it the past few days. Look what happens today.
https://www.carpforum.co.uk/Shared/Messages.asp?TopicID=428451&ReadAll=1
Funny how Uncle Jim has been with pretty much every bait firm in existence but still catches them...
In terms of certain folk mentioned in this thread, many years ago I received an unsolicited PM threat of “we will meet” via FB, based upon the fact that luncheon meat is not a good bait...
I know Mark personally and whilst he may ruffle a few feathers here and there, two things are always absolutely clear... One is that he doesn't talk rubbish and two is that results back up what he says...
Results are ALWAYS unquestionable. Fish on the bank. Any bait that fails to achieve that, consistently, isn't worth it's salt... BUT... Now go back and read the first sentence... 🤣
A good angler will catch more with a poor bait than an awful angler with a good bait but, combine the two, it's deadly... 👍
In terms of certain folk mentioned in this thread, many years ago I received an unsolicited PM threat of “we will meet” via FB, based upon the fact that luncheon meat is not a good bait...
I know Mark personally and whilst he may ruffle a few feathers here and there, two things are always absolutely clear... One is that he doesn't talk rubbish and two is that results back up what he says...
Results are ALWAYS unquestionable. Fish on the bank. Any bait that fails to achieve that, consistently, isn't worth it's salt... BUT... Now go back and read the first sentence... 🤣
A good angler will catch more with a poor bait than an awful angler with a good bait but, combine the two, it's deadly... 👍
In reply to Post #64
The guy puts his results on the line for all to see. Put up or shut up. I'm sick of all this trash talk. Go boil your head.
The guy puts his results on the line for all to see. Put up or shut up. I'm sick of all this trash talk. Go boil your head.
In reply to Post #69
Funny you didn't acknowledge me asking you if you really believe DL has a swim cordoned off for him at all times, or just for filming, where pressure is on to catch fish for camera?
You proved nothing about “sponsored” anglers getting preferential treatment, you just highlighted how marketing and content works in angling. The fact you think you proved something means you are incredibly naive, to the point daily life must be hard.
Knowing people that fished alongside Dave over at the RK complex I can tell you he blanks with the rest of them, doesn't have a swim cordoned off 24/7, and moves swim regularly during a session to get on fish, like any good angler does.
Funny you didn't acknowledge me asking you if you really believe DL has a swim cordoned off for him at all times, or just for filming, where pressure is on to catch fish for camera?
You proved nothing about “sponsored” anglers getting preferential treatment, you just highlighted how marketing and content works in angling. The fact you think you proved something means you are incredibly naive, to the point daily life must be hard.
Knowing people that fished alongside Dave over at the RK complex I can tell you he blanks with the rest of them, doesn't have a swim cordoned off 24/7, and moves swim regularly during a session to get on fish, like any good angler does.
In reply to Post #73
It's still fake. Imagine I'm advertising washing up liquid but rather than wash genuinely dirty plates I just buy new ones because the pressure is on to sell product.
The way folks suck up to someone who goes pleasure fishing for a few quid is amazing,
BTW, nice marketing TC, you've got a captive audience.
It's still fake. Imagine I'm advertising washing up liquid but rather than wash genuinely dirty plates I just buy new ones because the pressure is on to sell product.
The way folks suck up to someone who goes pleasure fishing for a few quid is amazing,
BTW, nice marketing TC, you've got a captive audience.
In reply to Post #73
Where did I say he had a swim cordoned off 24/7?
Where did I say he had a swim cordoned off 24/7?
In reply to Post #70
And again, you appear to be the aggressor in that thread. It's funny how the common denominator in threads that deteriorate is you!
And again, you appear to be the aggressor in that thread. It's funny how the common denominator in threads that deteriorate is you!
In reply to Post #74
No one said it isn't fake but it's not a representation of his or any other employed angler's actual fishing. It's an engineered situation to try and ensure content is created instead of a business paying 2/3 people and not generating content.
My point is, the guy said sponsored anglers get preferential treatment and gave this specific example but it isn't what happens to them all the time in their angling.
No one said it isn't fake but it's not a representation of his or any other employed angler's actual fishing. It's an engineered situation to try and ensure content is created instead of a business paying 2/3 people and not generating content.
My point is, the guy said sponsored anglers get preferential treatment and gave this specific example but it isn't what happens to them all the time in their angling.
In reply to Post #75
You gave the example that on this syndi a swim had been closed off and baited for a fortnight for him for filming. Then said you proved sponsored anglers get preferential treatment like your example is how he fishes all the time, which simply isn't true in the slightest. You proved nothing apart from what everyone already knows when it comes to most angling content creation.
My point being you tried to use an example of something that doesn't represent his normal angling, to say that “famous” anglers get preferential treatment all the time.
You should have used the example of actually getting tickets to lakes, that's where they bypass waiting lists a lot of the time because of their “fame”.
You gave the example that on this syndi a swim had been closed off and baited for a fortnight for him for filming. Then said you proved sponsored anglers get preferential treatment like your example is how he fishes all the time, which simply isn't true in the slightest. You proved nothing apart from what everyone already knows when it comes to most angling content creation.
My point being you tried to use an example of something that doesn't represent his normal angling, to say that “famous” anglers get preferential treatment all the time.
You should have used the example of actually getting tickets to lakes, that's where they bypass waiting lists a lot of the time because of their “fame”.
In reply to Post #78
Again, nowhere did I say “all the time” that is something you have inferred yourself.
Again, nowhere did I say “all the time” that is something you have inferred yourself.
In reply to Post #79
You also didn't say it wasn't all the time and inferred that is how “famous” anglers fish, without relating to the context of actually why it was happening, which was for filming and is specifically for that purpose. And claimed to have proved something, which you didn't.
It's like talking to a sheet of plasterboard, it really is.
You also didn't say it wasn't all the time and inferred that is how “famous” anglers fish, without relating to the context of actually why it was happening, which was for filming and is specifically for that purpose. And claimed to have proved something, which you didn't.
It's like talking to a sheet of plasterboard, it really is.
In reply to Post #80
“It's funny you mention Dave Lane because I had a walk round a syndicate last summer and the owner who was showing me round just happened to mention DL had done some filming there recently.
The owner also mentioned, for 2 weeks prior a swim had been cordoned off for Dave and prebaited every day.”
What more context do you want?
“It's funny you mention Dave Lane because I had a walk round a syndicate last summer and the owner who was showing me round just happened to mention DL had done some filming there recently.
The owner also mentioned, for 2 weeks prior a swim had been cordoned off for Dave and prebaited every day.”
What more context do you want?
In reply to Post #81
Let's quote it fully though yeah?
Thinking sponsored anglers don't get special treatment is incredibly naive. It's funny you mention Dave Lane because I had a walk round a syndicate last summer and the owner who was showing me round just happened to mention DL had done some filming there recently.
The owner also mentioned, for 2 weeks prior a swim had been cordoned off for Dave and prebaited every day.
I suspect this kind of thing happens a lot for celebrity anglers and it makes sense from a commercial perspective. Now I'm not saying celebrity anglers do or don't get better bait than the public but they do get preferable treatment in other areas of their angling, treatment is mere mortals could only dream of
You are saying it's naive of people to think they don't get special treatment, and used this example to try to prove it, backed up by your last sentence. But your example is nothing to do with everyday angling by sponsored anglers. It's to do with a business creating content and doesn't represent how Dave lane actually operates for his personal angling.
You use your example as proof sponsored anglers get preferential treatment that only we can dream of, this is what implies you believe it happens for them constantly, having a swim baited for them.
Time to stop the avoidance tactics now kiddo.
Let's quote it fully though yeah?
Thinking sponsored anglers don't get special treatment is incredibly naive. It's funny you mention Dave Lane because I had a walk round a syndicate last summer and the owner who was showing me round just happened to mention DL had done some filming there recently.
The owner also mentioned, for 2 weeks prior a swim had been cordoned off for Dave and prebaited every day.
I suspect this kind of thing happens a lot for celebrity anglers and it makes sense from a commercial perspective. Now I'm not saying celebrity anglers do or don't get better bait than the public but they do get preferable treatment in other areas of their angling, treatment is mere mortals could only dream of
You are saying it's naive of people to think they don't get special treatment, and used this example to try to prove it, backed up by your last sentence. But your example is nothing to do with everyday angling by sponsored anglers. It's to do with a business creating content and doesn't represent how Dave lane actually operates for his personal angling.
You use your example as proof sponsored anglers get preferential treatment that only we can dream of, this is what implies you believe it happens for them constantly, having a swim baited for them.
Time to stop the avoidance tactics now kiddo.
In reply to Post #82
You are reading things that haven't been written, I gave a specific example of a celebrity angler getting preferential treatment for filming, nowhere and I mean absolutely no where other than your imagination did I say it was constant. It isn't my fault you can't read or comprehend simple sentences and feel the need to invent words that haven't been written
You are reading things that haven't been written, I gave a specific example of a celebrity angler getting preferential treatment for filming, nowhere and I mean absolutely no where other than your imagination did I say it was constant. It isn't my fault you can't read or comprehend simple sentences and feel the need to invent words that haven't been written
In reply to Post #83
You told tcarper you “proved” sponsored anglers get special treatment and as I quoted you, it's something we mere mortals dream of. I'm pretty sure we don't all dream of having a swim cordoned off and baited for us so we can potentially catch a fish of a camera. If that's your dream then fair play but it isn't mine! Does that mean I'm not just a mere mortal though?
What did you “prove” though? You can't answer it.
Like I said, it's implied that you mean that in the way it reads. And again, it's a poor example of it, because for all you know the bait company organised/demanded it to ensure the best chance content is created. It's hardly preferential in the context of what was being spoken about, getting a better version of publicly available bait because they are sponsored.
And again, as I said it's a poor example to use. Others make more sense. Terry Hearn using the dynamite red fish with fresh fish he took to the factory himself maybe? But he was open about that. Skipping waiting lists like I mentioned, happens all the time.
You told tcarper you “proved” sponsored anglers get special treatment and as I quoted you, it's something we mere mortals dream of. I'm pretty sure we don't all dream of having a swim cordoned off and baited for us so we can potentially catch a fish of a camera. If that's your dream then fair play but it isn't mine! Does that mean I'm not just a mere mortal though?
What did you “prove” though? You can't answer it.
Like I said, it's implied that you mean that in the way it reads. And again, it's a poor example of it, because for all you know the bait company organised/demanded it to ensure the best chance content is created. It's hardly preferential in the context of what was being spoken about, getting a better version of publicly available bait because they are sponsored.
And again, as I said it's a poor example to use. Others make more sense. Terry Hearn using the dynamite red fish with fresh fish he took to the factory himself maybe? But he was open about that. Skipping waiting lists like I mentioned, happens all the time.
In reply to Post #84
So you agree sponsored anglers get preferential treatment, glad we finally cleared that up.
So you agree sponsored anglers get preferential treatment, glad we finally cleared that up.
In reply to Post #85
I never said I disagreed with it, just that your example doesn't go to show they do because it's a business transaction not related to everyday angling that sponsored anglers do away from filming for content.
Not sure you really quite get that using a bait constantly is different to a one time thing such as your example are not related. So either what you said is totally irrelevant or you were implying it happens like that for them all the time.
You didn't prove anything with what you said in regard to them benefitting in their regular fishing that others can't get their hands on and is secretive. But you tried to claim you did and I merely said you have no point as it's a bad example.
I never said I disagreed with it, just that your example doesn't go to show they do because it's a business transaction not related to everyday angling that sponsored anglers do away from filming for content.
Not sure you really quite get that using a bait constantly is different to a one time thing such as your example are not related. So either what you said is totally irrelevant or you were implying it happens like that for them all the time.
You didn't prove anything with what you said in regard to them benefitting in their regular fishing that others can't get their hands on and is secretive. But you tried to claim you did and I merely said you have no point as it's a bad example.
This argument
In reply to Post #86
I have to say, your ability to read what you want rather than what is written is quite frankly something special. Anyway this discussion has become rather boring and circular so I'm going to leave you too and and find something better to do, like watching paint dry.
I have to say, your ability to read what you want rather than what is written is quite frankly something special. Anyway this discussion has become rather boring and circular so I'm going to leave you too and and find something better to do, like watching paint dry.
In reply to Post #87
When you read the second half of this thread having got no emotional investment into the topic.... lads!....
When you read the second half of this thread having got no emotional investment into the topic.... lads!....
In reply to Post #88
You can't even read what you said yourself. Let alone what I'm saying
At least it's distracted you from trying to dig out Mark.
End of the day, if your dream is to be famous in the carp world and get the perks like you said, well more fool you! No one should care what others are doing and have access too. Focus on your own fishing, the resource you have and improve, not sit idle and moan about others are doing or have. “Famous” anglers weren't famous once. They got to where they are by being better than others at something, noticeably go the detriment of other aspects of life.
IMO the best anglers about are the ones that do their thing quietly whilst holding down a full time job and family at home, yet still out fish everyone, including the sponsored mob.
You can't even read what you said yourself. Let alone what I'm saying
At least it's distracted you from trying to dig out Mark.
End of the day, if your dream is to be famous in the carp world and get the perks like you said, well more fool you! No one should care what others are doing and have access too. Focus on your own fishing, the resource you have and improve, not sit idle and moan about others are doing or have. “Famous” anglers weren't famous once. They got to where they are by being better than others at something, noticeably go the detriment of other aspects of life.
IMO the best anglers about are the ones that do their thing quietly whilst holding down a full time job and family at home, yet still out fish everyone, including the sponsored mob.
Why not argue via PM so the people that are genuinely interested in the topic can converse?
In reply to Post #91
Totally agree
Totally agree
In reply to Post #91
Because what fun would that be?
Because what fun would that be?
In reply to Post #91
Are you saying you want preferential treatment by not having to read all this?
Are you saying you want preferential treatment by not having to read all this?
In reply to Post #94
I do.
I do.
Here's my point of view for what it's worth. I fish lakes with loads of “named” anglers. They don't get any special treatment. They have to fish the same as all us mere mortals. They catch more than their fair share. Trust me. Good anglers are just good anglers, regardless of what logo is stitched on to their beany hat. I think it's important to separate what these guys do for a job and what they do for their own personal fishing. They are often very removed from each other.
Now on to bait. It's important to not confuse test baits with sale baits. I can use mainline cos I've seen it with my own eyes. For a few years essential Opel was tested on one of my waters. It was a completely different colour to what ended up being sold to the general public. But I'd expect that cos it was on test and stuff changes. The other side of the coin is that on that same water, those same anglers would get a transit full of bait direct from the factory and as far as I can tell it was exactly the same as you'd buy from a shop. Same guys, same manufacturer, not special treatment from what I could see.
One thing I would say is that I know of at least two baits, not mainline, that when released were substantially different to the test versions. Were they “better” or “special”. Who knows? Who cares. But you can see if how someone was to catch when using these baits, that someone else might put 2 and 2 together and make 5.
Obviously named anglers get preferential treatment in some circumstances, free tackle, tickets paid for, free bait etc. but I can't honestly see a bait manufacturer poncing around making bespoke batches of bait for a handful of guys. Just washing up the machines to run a small batch of specials would be more aggro than it's worth.
I'd have said it's far more likely that a named angler would publicise a fish being caught on xyz bait, when in actual fact it was caught on someone else's hookbait altogether or tigers or maggots etc. I'm sure that goes on. So I'd always take any of the advertisement videos with a pinch of salt.
Now on to bait. It's important to not confuse test baits with sale baits. I can use mainline cos I've seen it with my own eyes. For a few years essential Opel was tested on one of my waters. It was a completely different colour to what ended up being sold to the general public. But I'd expect that cos it was on test and stuff changes. The other side of the coin is that on that same water, those same anglers would get a transit full of bait direct from the factory and as far as I can tell it was exactly the same as you'd buy from a shop. Same guys, same manufacturer, not special treatment from what I could see.
One thing I would say is that I know of at least two baits, not mainline, that when released were substantially different to the test versions. Were they “better” or “special”. Who knows? Who cares. But you can see if how someone was to catch when using these baits, that someone else might put 2 and 2 together and make 5.
Obviously named anglers get preferential treatment in some circumstances, free tackle, tickets paid for, free bait etc. but I can't honestly see a bait manufacturer poncing around making bespoke batches of bait for a handful of guys. Just washing up the machines to run a small batch of specials would be more aggro than it's worth.
I'd have said it's far more likely that a named angler would publicise a fish being caught on xyz bait, when in actual fact it was caught on someone else's hookbait altogether or tigers or maggots etc. I'm sure that goes on. So I'd always take any of the advertisement videos with a pinch of salt.
In reply to Post #25
It's 100% not the same bait off the shelf
It's 100% not the same bait off the shelf
I have never used mainline, not because I don't think it's a very good bait, but because personally the waters I have fished have been dominated by it and given my limited time it just seems a bit futile doing the same as everyone else who has more time and resources. It may sound stupid and rarely works but in my head I like to change the odds - it sometimes works and often fails but I prefer catching rather than taking my turn in the going swim on the going bait.
Regards quality, I would say that all standard baits are the best they can be at £2 a kilo (ish).they are absolutely fish catching good baits, could they be 50% better in my opinion yes but nobody is paying £30 a kilo at shop prices.
It leaves the original post question at a few answers (my opinion)
Make the very best bait you can, you don't need a science degree and you probably don't need half as much quality bait as you think you do.
Buy a decent bait like cell it catches, everywhere and you will always be confident - pimp it if you want some personalisation or edge.
Buy cheap and go for the they are just fish attitude and try and prove that quantity makes up for quality.
I am sure all have their place alongside particles, naturals etc. it I was doing a week abroad, I go decent bait firm good bait, for my fishing at home I would get the very best and use smaller quantities but that suits my style and fishing hours, I simply don't have or want to fish for 3 days with 10 kilo of bait on a dance floor hoping for a 3 on the spot tactic to suddenly give me the bait deal of my dreams.
Regards quality, I would say that all standard baits are the best they can be at £2 a kilo (ish).they are absolutely fish catching good baits, could they be 50% better in my opinion yes but nobody is paying £30 a kilo at shop prices.
It leaves the original post question at a few answers (my opinion)
Make the very best bait you can, you don't need a science degree and you probably don't need half as much quality bait as you think you do.
Buy a decent bait like cell it catches, everywhere and you will always be confident - pimp it if you want some personalisation or edge.
Buy cheap and go for the they are just fish attitude and try and prove that quantity makes up for quality.
I am sure all have their place alongside particles, naturals etc. it I was doing a week abroad, I go decent bait firm good bait, for my fishing at home I would get the very best and use smaller quantities but that suits my style and fishing hours, I simply don't have or want to fish for 3 days with 10 kilo of bait on a dance floor hoping for a 3 on the spot tactic to suddenly give me the bait deal of my dreams.
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