As per the title, what does make peanuts so addictive for carp? I've been fishing a local club water using 2 rods, 1 on nuts and the other on my own boilies (decent birdfood) and the nut rod is doing probably 80% of my fish. I always thought lipids but the boilie has a good fat profile, can it be purely down to the taste?
In reply to Post #1
I'd rather have people not talking about this:D
Nah, got some peanut stories as well, also in the winter, but no idea why.
I'd rather have people not talking about this:D
Nah, got some peanut stories as well, also in the winter, but no idea why.
In reply to Post #1
I always think when they first are used on waters where they are hardly used they always do brilliantly but not forever, the fish must realise in the end they have no benefit to them.
I always think when they first are used on waters where they are hardly used they always do brilliantly but not forever, the fish must realise in the end they have no benefit to them.
In reply to Post #3
The lack of nutrition is a myth, cultivated by those in the angling press who had business interests in a fledgling HNV ingredient and boilie company.
The lack of nutrition is a myth, cultivated by those in the angling press who had business interests in a fledgling HNV ingredient and boilie company.
In reply to Post #4
I don't agree. A peanut is never going to compete with a specialist feed pellet or high protein boilie.
If you just fed fish peanuts they certainly wouldn't grow very big or live very long possibly.
I don't agree. A peanut is never going to compete with a specialist feed pellet or high protein boilie.
If you just fed fish peanuts they certainly wouldn't grow very big or live very long possibly.
In reply to Post #5
Your post says eating peanuts has no benefit to them. That is not true. There is nutritional value in a peanut.
Whether or not a pellet or boilie is better is a different point.
Your post says eating peanuts has no benefit to them. That is not true. There is nutritional value in a peanut.
Whether or not a pellet or boilie is better is a different point.
In reply to Post #6
The only nutrition they can use is that that is on the surface of the peanut, whether whole or crushed.
Peanuts are not digested, they do not get broken down in the stomach (or system as carp have no stomach), they pass almost directly through the intestine and straight out.
They also contain enzyme inhibitors and are actually anti-nutritional.
Sadly peanuts can actually be addictive, in fish, and humans.
The only nutrition they can use is that that is on the surface of the peanut, whether whole or crushed.
Peanuts are not digested, they do not get broken down in the stomach (or system as carp have no stomach), they pass almost directly through the intestine and straight out.
They also contain enzyme inhibitors and are actually anti-nutritional.
Sadly peanuts can actually be addictive, in fish, and humans.
In reply to Post #7
Let me guess, you used Nutrabaits in the early days?!
Let me guess, you used Nutrabaits in the early days?!
I'm under no illusion that peanuts aren't great for the carp but you can't deny the effectiveness.
In reply to Post #3
This is the exact case. I'm the 1st to use them on the lake and yes they are very very effective
This is the exact case. I'm the 1st to use them on the lake and yes they are very very effective
In reply to Post #8
Are you saying Tim Paisley lied to us all...
Carp love peanuts, and if we didn't give a toss about their welfare then we'd all be using them.
Trouble is, there is documented evidence of fish losing condition and becoming malnourished on them.
Enter the peanut ban and the fish recovered their condition.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trypsin_inhibitor
Are you saying Tim Paisley lied to us all...
Carp love peanuts, and if we didn't give a toss about their welfare then we'd all be using them.
Trouble is, there is documented evidence of fish losing condition and becoming malnourished on them.
Enter the peanut ban and the fish recovered their condition.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trypsin_inhibitor
In reply to Post #11
Never...
It's not as simple as peanuts inhibit trypsin, peanuts are therefore ‘anti-nutritional' and harmful to carp.
Eggs, soya beans, chick peas, some seeds and cereals contain trypsin inhibitors. Does that make every boiled bait bound with eggs or containing soya flour or pigeon conditioner and Vitalin anti nutritional?
Trypsin is one of several digestive enzymes produced by the carp. It acts on proteins, but peanuts are only 30% protein.. Do we believe that the carbohydrate, lipids, vitamins, minerals etc in a peanut are then of no benefit?
I'm not saying that a peanut is a fully rounded nutritional meal for a carp. But the ‘anti-nutritional' stuff based on trypsin inhibitors is very questionable.
Never...
It's not as simple as peanuts inhibit trypsin, peanuts are therefore ‘anti-nutritional' and harmful to carp.
Eggs, soya beans, chick peas, some seeds and cereals contain trypsin inhibitors. Does that make every boiled bait bound with eggs or containing soya flour or pigeon conditioner and Vitalin anti nutritional?
Trypsin is one of several digestive enzymes produced by the carp. It acts on proteins, but peanuts are only 30% protein.. Do we believe that the carbohydrate, lipids, vitamins, minerals etc in a peanut are then of no benefit?
I'm not saying that a peanut is a fully rounded nutritional meal for a carp. But the ‘anti-nutritional' stuff based on trypsin inhibitors is very questionable.
In reply to Post #11
When they were eating solely peanuts and no other bait was being used. I find it very hard to believe that you'd find any venue nowadays where only peanuts were used by anglers in large quantities.
Also find it hard to believe that peanuts are less nutritional than some of the cheap boilies being sold nowadays too.
Some people live in the dark ages they really do. The documented evidence was on lakes where anglers were only using peanuts and piling in loads of them, sacks at a time even. Trying to say that means peanuts are bad for carp is ridiculous. It's like saying all fats are bad for humans, which isn't true, because people are obese when they eat bad fats constantly and don't exercise.
When they were eating solely peanuts and no other bait was being used. I find it very hard to believe that you'd find any venue nowadays where only peanuts were used by anglers in large quantities.
Also find it hard to believe that peanuts are less nutritional than some of the cheap boilies being sold nowadays too.
Some people live in the dark ages they really do. The documented evidence was on lakes where anglers were only using peanuts and piling in loads of them, sacks at a time even. Trying to say that means peanuts are bad for carp is ridiculous. It's like saying all fats are bad for humans, which isn't true, because people are obese when they eat bad fats constantly and don't exercise.
In reply to Post #12
Boilies don't come out as they went in, and in the ingredients you mentioned, because of the heat treatment, the grinding of the ingredients, and/or conversion into flour, the trypsin inhibitors are made inactive, the boilie can be broken down, it can be digested.
The lack of nutrition provided to carp by peanuts is not questionable, it happened, the trypsin inhibitors are fact. A study proved that in peanuts heat treatment did not reduce the effects of the inhibitors, in fact it actually enhanced it, whereas in soya these TI's can be reduced to levels low enough for the bean to be digested.
Quite definitely waters which became 'peanut dependant', the carp suffered losses and health issues.
I did have a scientific study paper on the health issues caused by peanuts, where carp were eating them in preference over the (limited) natural food.
Boilies don't come out as they went in, and in the ingredients you mentioned, because of the heat treatment, the grinding of the ingredients, and/or conversion into flour, the trypsin inhibitors are made inactive, the boilie can be broken down, it can be digested.
The lack of nutrition provided to carp by peanuts is not questionable, it happened, the trypsin inhibitors are fact. A study proved that in peanuts heat treatment did not reduce the effects of the inhibitors, in fact it actually enhanced it, whereas in soya these TI's can be reduced to levels low enough for the bean to be digested.
Quite definitely waters which became 'peanut dependant', the carp suffered losses and health issues.
I did have a scientific study paper on the health issues caused by peanuts, where carp were eating them in preference over the (limited) natural food.
In reply to Post #14
You're missing the point Nick. Trypsin acts on protein. There is more to a peanut than protein. What about lipase and amylase?
You're missing the point Nick. Trypsin acts on protein. There is more to a peanut than protein. What about lipase and amylase?
With regards the trypsin inhibitor, wouldn't that be stopped during boiling of the nuts? I'm guessing here a bit but surely the fish would get some lipids from nuts as the lipase would act on the surface oils as it passes through the digestive tract?
So does anyone have an answer to the question?!!
Nuts are full of good fats and protein, all be it some more than others.
Carp crunch up crayfish easily and so I don't think peanuts come out whole with no nutrition taken onboard.
Long term perhaps theres detriment but i think thats debatable, but I think if its your edge on a water then go for it.
Carp crunch up crayfish easily and so I don't think peanuts come out whole with no nutrition taken onboard.
Long term perhaps theres detriment but i think thats debatable, but I think if its your edge on a water then go for it.
In reply to Post #17
They just like them!
My explanation would be that the peanuts contain fats and natural sugars. Most, if not all living creatures will feed heavily on food containing fats and natural sugars if they are available.
They just like them!
My explanation would be that the peanuts contain fats and natural sugars. Most, if not all living creatures will feed heavily on food containing fats and natural sugars if they are available.
In reply to Post #15
With regards the trypsin inhibitor, wouldn't that be stopped during boiling of the nuts? I'm guessing here a bit but surely the fish would get some lipids from nuts as the lipase would act on the surface oils as it passes through the digestive tract?
Nuts are full of good fats and protein, all be it some more than others.
Carp crunch up crayfish easily and so I don't think peanuts come out whole with no nutrition taken onboard.
Long term perhaps theres detriment but i think thats debatable, but I think if its your edge on a water then go for it.
You're missing the point Nick. Trypsin acts on protein. There is more to a peanut than protein. What about lipase and amylase?
I'll quote all the posts as it's not that simple, and im not missing any points:
For some reason, the trypsin inhibitor is not denatured by boiling, you would need to boil for over 90minutes at 100⁰C to reduce it to negligible levels.
When it comes to the crunch, only nutrients on the surface of the nuts are utilised, the actual physical nut is not broken down in either the gut of humans, or the simplified gut of fish. It passes through the system, as it was swallowed, either chewed or whole.
The 'inner' nutrients do not get digested as they can't be reached. The fibre prevents them being digested, in carp, and many humans.
Crayfish are actually an animal protein, and provide best nutrition, whereas vegetable based diets do not (in carp and dietary studies). Those fed on just a vegetable diet showed reduced growth and weight gain.
With regards the trypsin inhibitor, wouldn't that be stopped during boiling of the nuts? I'm guessing here a bit but surely the fish would get some lipids from nuts as the lipase would act on the surface oils as it passes through the digestive tract?
Nuts are full of good fats and protein, all be it some more than others.
Carp crunch up crayfish easily and so I don't think peanuts come out whole with no nutrition taken onboard.
Long term perhaps theres detriment but i think thats debatable, but I think if its your edge on a water then go for it.
You're missing the point Nick. Trypsin acts on protein. There is more to a peanut than protein. What about lipase and amylase?
I'll quote all the posts as it's not that simple, and im not missing any points:
For some reason, the trypsin inhibitor is not denatured by boiling, you would need to boil for over 90minutes at 100⁰C to reduce it to negligible levels.
When it comes to the crunch, only nutrients on the surface of the nuts are utilised, the actual physical nut is not broken down in either the gut of humans, or the simplified gut of fish. It passes through the system, as it was swallowed, either chewed or whole.
The 'inner' nutrients do not get digested as they can't be reached. The fibre prevents them being digested, in carp, and many humans.
Crayfish are actually an animal protein, and provide best nutrition, whereas vegetable based diets do not (in carp and dietary studies). Those fed on just a vegetable diet showed reduced growth and weight gain.
In reply to Post #20
Honestly I think this is all abit deep, OP didnt mention he was gonna fill the place in with peanuts so therefore why we we on about growth rates etc, protein levels and inhibitors?
Most if not all humans who eat peanuts, do so because they like the taste and texture, carp do the same. No one is advocating knocking boilie fishing on the head and going to peanuts.
Peanuts on the hair with some freebies is fine.
I mean at what point as carp anglers do we just let go of science? Afterall we all hoy lead, metal and chemicals of some nature into the water.
Honestly I think this is all abit deep, OP didnt mention he was gonna fill the place in with peanuts so therefore why we we on about growth rates etc, protein levels and inhibitors?
Most if not all humans who eat peanuts, do so because they like the taste and texture, carp do the same. No one is advocating knocking boilie fishing on the head and going to peanuts.
Peanuts on the hair with some freebies is fine.
I mean at what point as carp anglers do we just let go of science? Afterall we all hoy lead, metal and chemicals of some nature into the water.
In reply to Post #21
Sorry, did you actually read the first post?
As per the title, what does make peanuts so addictive for carp? I've been fishing a local club water using 2 rods, 1 on nuts and the other on my own boilies (decent birdfood) and the nut rod is doing probably 80% of my fish. I always thought lipids but the boilie has a good fat profile, can it be purely down to the taste?
To me that is asking about the nutritional value, the addiction that they can create, which I gave.
Sorry, did you actually read the first post?
As per the title, what does make peanuts so addictive for carp? I've been fishing a local club water using 2 rods, 1 on nuts and the other on my own boilies (decent birdfood) and the nut rod is doing probably 80% of my fish. I always thought lipids but the boilie has a good fat profile, can it be purely down to the taste?
To me that is asking about the nutritional value, the addiction that they can create, which I gave.
If a carp has eaten peanuts and it's ability to absorb proteins are then limited due to the trypin inhibitors, then if it goes on to eat other for it is still unable to absorb the nutrition from a proper food bait.
Slowly, slowly, the fish spirals down the rabbit hole of malnutrition.
And not so slowly if peanuts are overfed...
Slowly, slowly, the fish spirals down the rabbit hole of malnutrition.
And not so slowly if peanuts are overfed...
Not getting involved. Not got the time. Will just leave this here, and do the off.
Mother nature... "Here mankind, look at these nuts and berries, these are good for you".
Mankind... "But we need to sell processed food, no money in nuts or berries old girl". "We will have studies done, telling them that nuts and berries are bad, this will soon become the gospel".
I suppose that you could transfer that above, to so many different things in life really.
Haribos are not bad for carp. But, have 50 geeeeezers throwing 10kg of Haribo Gold Bears into the pond every other day... Haribos are soon not that much kop for their health anymore. A bit like a Mars bar is lush. You try living for the next six months on Mars bars alone. You'll soon be ****ed.
Mother nature... "Here mankind, look at these nuts and berries, these are good for you".
Mankind... "But we need to sell processed food, no money in nuts or berries old girl". "We will have studies done, telling them that nuts and berries are bad, this will soon become the gospel".
I suppose that you could transfer that above, to so many different things in life really.
Haribos are not bad for carp. But, have 50 geeeeezers throwing 10kg of Haribo Gold Bears into the pond every other day... Haribos are soon not that much kop for their health anymore. A bit like a Mars bar is lush. You try living for the next six months on Mars bars alone. You'll soon be ****ed.
In reply to Post #11
I stopped taking anything Tim Paisley said seriously after he, amongst others, tried to convince us that carp could naturally tell what was a nutritionally beneficial diet, but then said that peanuts shouldn't be used because of their negative effects on the carps health and that basically the carp needed saving from themselves. All about the money IMO.
I stopped taking anything Tim Paisley said seriously after he, amongst others, tried to convince us that carp could naturally tell what was a nutritionally beneficial diet, but then said that peanuts shouldn't be used because of their negative effects on the carps health and that basically the carp needed saving from themselves. All about the money IMO.
If peanuts are so bad, why are peanut meal boilies so acceptable? And peanut based liquids? After all Nick says the trypsin inhibitor isn't affected unless boiled for over 90mins. And if any amount of that is bad for carp and slowly starves them then surely even 1g of peanut anything in a bait is bad for the carp. Is someone going to tell Sticky that they should take Manilla off the shelves then because it's slowly killing carp?
Answer is simply they are only bad for the carp if over fed in vast quantities. Just like anything apart from pellet and boilies (the good ones) because they are designed to provide all aspects of nutrition for carp. Feed carp only sweetcorn, maggots, hemp, etc. and you'll see a decline in health too. Even some of the shoddy boilies that are out there.
Peanuts can be an incredible bait, fish that are unfished/rarely fished for seem to respond to them well. But I've found they can be a very hit and miss bait. Some waters they work, others they just don't.
Answer is simply they are only bad for the carp if over fed in vast quantities. Just like anything apart from pellet and boilies (the good ones) because they are designed to provide all aspects of nutrition for carp. Feed carp only sweetcorn, maggots, hemp, etc. and you'll see a decline in health too. Even some of the shoddy boilies that are out there.
Peanuts can be an incredible bait, fish that are unfished/rarely fished for seem to respond to them well. But I've found they can be a very hit and miss bait. Some waters they work, others they just don't.
In reply to Post #26
There are other ways to remove the trypsin inhibitor, and with one of the products you mentioned, you'd take the temperature to 120⁰C, as standard. I think that is how peanut oil is removed through condensation.
Peanut meal pressed, raised to 120⁰, to pasteurise it, to prevent it going off.
I know what you are saying about overfeeding, and yes, I mostly agree, but anglers are their own worst enemies.
A bait works on a water, any bait, Mainline Cell, peanuts, Halibut pellets, from the start, if that bait works, other anglers switch onto that bait, more goes in, the fish eat more, it becomes used more, more is introduced.
We also have types of water; a water that is rich in natural food, a water that can support the fish it holds with natural food, the carp are less likely to be bait reliant.
However go to a water that is bait reliant, it contains more fish than the natural food can support, the fish need bait to survive. If that bait is one product, as you point out, then fish lose condition. We go back to the 'anglers their own enemy', the working bait.
There are other ways to remove the trypsin inhibitor, and with one of the products you mentioned, you'd take the temperature to 120⁰C, as standard. I think that is how peanut oil is removed through condensation.
Peanut meal pressed, raised to 120⁰, to pasteurise it, to prevent it going off.
I know what you are saying about overfeeding, and yes, I mostly agree, but anglers are their own worst enemies.
A bait works on a water, any bait, Mainline Cell, peanuts, Halibut pellets, from the start, if that bait works, other anglers switch onto that bait, more goes in, the fish eat more, it becomes used more, more is introduced.
We also have types of water; a water that is rich in natural food, a water that can support the fish it holds with natural food, the carp are less likely to be bait reliant.
However go to a water that is bait reliant, it contains more fish than the natural food can support, the fish need bait to survive. If that bait is one product, as you point out, then fish lose condition. We go back to the 'anglers their own enemy', the working bait.
In reply to Post #22
Yes I did and it didnt warrant all the jargon and presumptions that had followed imho.
OP didnt ask about the 'addiction' nor the detrimental effects of mass baiting using peanuts.
He simply said, 'Can it be purely down to taste?'
But this is one of those posts that some people push their powers of google upon others so I shall no longer reply.
Keep up the good work on the peanuts mate, clearly its your edge on the water and as has been mentioned, view them like a Mars bar.
Yes I did and it didnt warrant all the jargon and presumptions that had followed imho.
OP didnt ask about the 'addiction' nor the detrimental effects of mass baiting using peanuts.
He simply said, 'Can it be purely down to taste?'
But this is one of those posts that some people push their powers of google upon others so I shall no longer reply.
Keep up the good work on the peanuts mate, clearly its your edge on the water and as has been mentioned, view them like a Mars bar.
In reply to Post #28
Tbh mate, I don't mind a bit of science type chat, sometimes it inadvertently puts a bit of meat on the bone so to speak. Having done more research to back up my own thoughts I think there may be a link with a dopamine/addiction type reaction from peanuts but as ever that is very much a theory (that no doubt someone will correct me on). I do see peanuts very much as a treat type food for the carp, not one I'd bait en mass
Tbh mate, I don't mind a bit of science type chat, sometimes it inadvertently puts a bit of meat on the bone so to speak. Having done more research to back up my own thoughts I think there may be a link with a dopamine/addiction type reaction from peanuts but as ever that is very much a theory (that no doubt someone will correct me on). I do see peanuts very much as a treat type food for the carp, not one I'd bait en mass
In reply to Post #1
Out of interest how are you preparing the nuts?
If it's a secret, fair play
Out of interest how are you preparing the nuts?
If it's a secret, fair play
In reply to Post #30
Nothing special mate, just a soak and boil and use them fresh as a daisy. I played around with adding a few bits but in all honesty plain seems to be scoring well
Nothing special mate, just a soak and boil and use them fresh as a daisy. I played around with adding a few bits but in all honesty plain seems to be scoring well
In reply to Post #28
Sorry, I don't believe you, I'm positive you didn't read it, especially as this line says:
As per the title, what does make peanuts so addictive for carp?
There are none so ignorant as those, who it appears, like yourself, have no wish to learn.
The scientific bumpf explains some of it, and I didn't need Google for that, I knew the risks, the trypsin inhibitor, and how peanut flour, peanut oil and meal is extracted, and about the high temperatures used.
I've given valid reasons why peanuts became so dangerous for carp on various waters, and why some waters have banned them ( and sometimes tiger nuts).
The complicated fibre cells prevent or slow digestion, compared to the simple cell of lake weed. The lack of digestion means they are limited nutritionally.
Sorry, I don't believe you, I'm positive you didn't read it, especially as this line says:
As per the title, what does make peanuts so addictive for carp?
There are none so ignorant as those, who it appears, like yourself, have no wish to learn.
The scientific bumpf explains some of it, and I didn't need Google for that, I knew the risks, the trypsin inhibitor, and how peanut flour, peanut oil and meal is extracted, and about the high temperatures used.
I've given valid reasons why peanuts became so dangerous for carp on various waters, and why some waters have banned them ( and sometimes tiger nuts).
The complicated fibre cells prevent or slow digestion, compared to the simple cell of lake weed. The lack of digestion means they are limited nutritionally.
In reply to Post #31
It's interesting reading your results. Can't say I have spent a lot of time on them but I did not rate them, quite the opposite. I prepared them as said, put the needle through them and they were weeping the white juice, couldn't buy a bit fishing them over particle, persistent as I am I kept it going in and then went to one rod over it and after near on 3 month caught one of the smallest fish in the lake. Binned, boilie was out fishing them consistently for me
Wonder if it's a bit more fish or water specific, something they can't get from elsewhere or it's just something new, could also argue the spot I was fishing but it had produced for me before 
It's interesting reading your results. Can't say I have spent a lot of time on them but I did not rate them, quite the opposite. I prepared them as said, put the needle through them and they were weeping the white juice, couldn't buy a bit fishing them over particle, persistent as I am I kept it going in and then went to one rod over it and after near on 3 month caught one of the smallest fish in the lake. Binned, boilie was out fishing them consistently for me
Wonder if it's a bit more fish or water specific, something they can't get from elsewhere or it's just something new, could also argue the spot I was fishing but it had produced for me before
This is peak internet - arguing about a peanut.
In reply to Post #20
All, I've been following this thread with great interest. I come from a time pre- boily, pre- particle and pre- commercial carping.
Like many of you I was told that peanuts are bad for the carp, probably in the early 80s when we started fishing tigers ( baiting in moderation of course)... and had never used them, at all.
I was reminded about the power of peanuts by a well know independent UK bait maker, and used them last spring on a 200 acre US lake which I nearly have to myself. It has a low ish stock of big fish ( most unusual for here). Strangely last season gave me my 4 biggest US carp (36+ - 41+) by sparingly adding peanuts (soak and boil) and fishing tigers ( as usual) over hemp, groats etc.
Hmmmmmm.......
All, I've been following this thread with great interest. I come from a time pre- boily, pre- particle and pre- commercial carping.
Like many of you I was told that peanuts are bad for the carp, probably in the early 80s when we started fishing tigers ( baiting in moderation of course)... and had never used them, at all.
I was reminded about the power of peanuts by a well know independent UK bait maker, and used them last spring on a 200 acre US lake which I nearly have to myself. It has a low ish stock of big fish ( most unusual for here). Strangely last season gave me my 4 biggest US carp (36+ - 41+) by sparingly adding peanuts (soak and boil) and fishing tigers ( as usual) over hemp, groats etc.
Hmmmmmm.......
In reply to Post #32
So based on a couple of replies you have done a full character assessment of me?
Go touch grass and stop being all high and mighty over a peanut.
I have no wish to learn from someone as cocksure as yourself, that's the difference.
So based on a couple of replies you have done a full character assessment of me?
Go touch grass and stop being all high and mighty over a peanut.
I have no wish to learn from someone as cocksure as yourself, that's the difference.
In reply to Post #36
Best to ignore him m8.
He's so boring that his own carp forum has hardly any posters.
He's actually banned on here (Salokcinnodrog) but keeps coming back !
Best to ignore him m8.
He's so boring that his own carp forum has hardly any posters.
He's actually banned on here (Salokcinnodrog) but keeps coming back !
In reply to Post #35
Nice one
Maybe we are creatures of habit
I must admit I enjoy reading TC stuff because he likes to throw the unwritten rules out of the window. Said it for a long time we are where we are with bait and the HNV principle has a lot to answer for, good and bad. Looking back it has cost me a lot of fish over the years but it has caught me a few too, styles and all
Nice one
Maybe we are creatures of habit
I must admit I enjoy reading TC stuff because he likes to throw the unwritten rules out of the window. Said it for a long time we are where we are with bait and the HNV principle has a lot to answer for, good and bad. Looking back it has cost me a lot of fish over the years but it has caught me a few too, styles and all
In reply to Post #38
I quite like tc's style. A guy who obviously knows his stuff but also able to keep things on the level and speak sense when sense is needed.
I quite like tc's style. A guy who obviously knows his stuff but also able to keep things on the level and speak sense when sense is needed.
Has anyone ever considered that apart from fats, sugar protein etc, that the humble peanut has a wonderful taste. Could it therefore be that taste that the carp like regardless of nutrition?
In reply to Post #40
I would go further and say that the taste is probably the main reason they continue to eat peanuts.
I would go further and say that the taste is probably the main reason they continue to eat peanuts.
In reply to Post #41
Possibly the same reason carp love toasted sesame oil?
Possibly the same reason carp love toasted sesame oil?
In reply to Post #42
Now you are getting somewhere...
Now you are getting somewhere...
In reply to Post #43
Hope so mate
Hope so mate
In reply to Post #44
Tell you what mate, by what we have just discussed if your are right mate, I'm packing in, where's that over the head simple lol
Tell you what mate, by what we have just discussed if your are right mate, I'm packing in, where's that over the head simple lol
In reply to Post #45
It's all interesting stuff mate. The holy grail, it's out there somewhere
It's all interesting stuff mate. The holy grail, it's out there somewhere
In reply to Post #46
The holy grail is a live bloodworm bed. You just can't put it on a hook!
The holy grail is a live bloodworm bed. You just can't put it on a hook!
In reply to Post #47
Ah, but what if you could replicate the signal that tells mr carp "there's a live bloodworm bed here".
Ah, but what if you could replicate the signal that tells mr carp "there's a live bloodworm bed here".
In reply to Post #47
I have used liquidised bloodworm over the years and put it into my boiled baits, it catches like most things do but it ain't invincible in my experiences otherwise it would be in every bait I used. Still have a couple of tubs in my freezer, one with liquidised mussel too, done best with it in pastes
I have used liquidised bloodworm over the years and put it into my boiled baits, it catches like most things do but it ain't invincible in my experiences otherwise it would be in every bait I used. Still have a couple of tubs in my freezer, one with liquidised mussel too, done best with it in pastes
What if you could get a peanut infused with hormones.
I'll get my coat
I'll get my coat
In reply to Post #34
About right!
About right!
Cashew nuts are much more tasty. Anyone had a dabble for the carp.
In reply to Post #49
I'm not sure that bloodworm whizzed up and dead have anything like the same attraction as a bed of live bloodworm for the carp. My understanding is it's the excretions that they home in on.
I'm not sure that bloodworm whizzed up and dead have anything like the same attraction as a bed of live bloodworm for the carp. My understanding is it's the excretions that they home in on.
In reply to Post #53
They are full of hemoglobin and when use them or liquidise them that's what the stink off and does it stink along with the crap they have been feeding on
They are full of hemoglobin and when use them or liquidise them that's what the stink off and does it stink along with the crap they have been feeding on
In reply to Post #49
I've liquidised maggots and casters and used them in a mix with semolina and maize meal.
It worked, but no better than other boilie mixes.
I've also got some boilies in the freezer made with chapatti flour, liquidised liver and liquidised mackeral and herring. Excellent bait for chub and carp.
They do absolutely stink after day 3 out of the freezer though.
I've liquidised maggots and casters and used them in a mix with semolina and maize meal.
It worked, but no better than other boilie mixes.
I've also got some boilies in the freezer made with chapatti flour, liquidised liver and liquidised mackeral and herring. Excellent bait for chub and carp.
They do absolutely stink after day 3 out of the freezer though.
In reply to Post #53
Very few carp anglers have ever used live bloodworm to compare it to frozen or blitzed ones. The difference is night and day.
I tried the frozen bloodworm for a while, but was so disappointed with the carps reactions, compared to live ones, that I gave up on them.
Very few carp anglers have ever used live bloodworm to compare it to frozen or blitzed ones. The difference is night and day.
I tried the frozen bloodworm for a while, but was so disappointed with the carps reactions, compared to live ones, that I gave up on them.
In reply to Post #56
Is it therefore possible that the actual signal that carp use to find bloodworm isn't just the worm but the specific signal given off by the detritus, ph, scfa etc that the bloodworm call home
Is it therefore possible that the actual signal that carp use to find bloodworm isn't just the worm but the specific signal given off by the detritus, ph, scfa etc that the bloodworm call home
Palatability.... I think plays are greater part in what makes a good bait than what people think. A well prepared peanut should easily squash between thumb and forefinger. Compared to say tiger nuts there hardly any effort in consuming them. That's why I think there better. Yes there not the most nutrious bait out there. But used in small quantities there should be a problem. And if your using them and doing well keep it to yourself.
In reply to Post #57
Is it therefore possible that the actual signal that carp use to find bloodworm isn't just the worm but the specific signal given off by the detritus, ph, scfa etc that the bloodworm call home
And what about movement?
I know bloodworm are in the silt, but there must be some movement as the chironimid larvae move around, pupate, and rise.
Is it therefore possible that the actual signal that carp use to find bloodworm isn't just the worm but the specific signal given off by the detritus, ph, scfa etc that the bloodworm call home
And what about movement?
I know bloodworm are in the silt, but there must be some movement as the chironimid larvae move around, pupate, and rise.
In reply to Post #59
That's the thing mate, so much going on as a complete picture that's probably impossible to replicate in an artificial baiting scenario
That's the thing mate, so much going on as a complete picture that's probably impossible to replicate in an artificial baiting scenario
In reply to Post #57
I believe that's exactly how the carp find the bloodworm beds.
I believe that's exactly how the carp find the bloodworm beds.
In reply to Post #57
That's an interesting point for me. I have been lucky enough to get hold of live worm and joker over the years and used to get old match packs on the cheap following the weekend. Trouble it is predominantly the cooler months when match anglers are using it for scratching etc. a bloke once showed me how to scrape it and I have done a bit of that too with a mate years ago, as for bloodworm beds, that makes me laugh, some areas are more productive than others but I wouldn't say they were dropping off the scraper
Going back to what you mention, I believe a lot of the frozen stuff comes from abroad and got only knows what they are getting it out of, I can only imagine
Again, back to what you mention though other than the hemoglobin they are probably also full of the silt they have been feeding in and that raises a question as to whether they are readily accepted or seen as “foreign” to said water, or maybe we are digging to deep as usual
Or is it the mixing them with other ingredients?
From a carp perspective, they will eat virtually anything, and a lot of their diet is dependent on what is readily available in said water, and now topped up by anglers baits
I have found that tench go nuts for bloodworm and that tells me what is eating the majority of the bloodworm in lakes with a decent tench population, all water dependant of course
As for peanuts?
That's an interesting point for me. I have been lucky enough to get hold of live worm and joker over the years and used to get old match packs on the cheap following the weekend. Trouble it is predominantly the cooler months when match anglers are using it for scratching etc. a bloke once showed me how to scrape it and I have done a bit of that too with a mate years ago, as for bloodworm beds, that makes me laugh, some areas are more productive than others but I wouldn't say they were dropping off the scraper
Going back to what you mention, I believe a lot of the frozen stuff comes from abroad and got only knows what they are getting it out of, I can only imagine
Again, back to what you mention though other than the hemoglobin they are probably also full of the silt they have been feeding in and that raises a question as to whether they are readily accepted or seen as “foreign” to said water, or maybe we are digging to deep as usual
Or is it the mixing them with other ingredients?
From a carp perspective, they will eat virtually anything, and a lot of their diet is dependent on what is readily available in said water, and now topped up by anglers baits
I have found that tench go nuts for bloodworm and that tells me what is eating the majority of the bloodworm in lakes with a decent tench population, all water dependant of course
As for peanuts?
In reply to Post #62
I think we did peanuts to exhaustion lol, nothing else to explore
. I said on a bait group some time ago that imo the lake bed itself gives off feed signals and got royally lynched by the hnv boys, but on reflection I don't think I was too far off , especially when it comes to natural lakes that don't see much bait. The carp know what area to visit but don't feed all the time or even dip down until something happens, that can only imo be a chemical change in the surroundings not just from a potential handful of bloodworm. Anyway, carp eat loads of green stuff, new shoots etc as a readily available energy source, stands to reason with elevated levels of amylase being secreted into the digestive tract?. And the reason why some fish just don't get caught.... Who knows, certainly not me but it's fun to speculate
I think we did peanuts to exhaustion lol, nothing else to explore
. I said on a bait group some time ago that imo the lake bed itself gives off feed signals and got royally lynched by the hnv boys, but on reflection I don't think I was too far off , especially when it comes to natural lakes that don't see much bait. The carp know what area to visit but don't feed all the time or even dip down until something happens, that can only imo be a chemical change in the surroundings not just from a potential handful of bloodworm. Anyway, carp eat loads of green stuff, new shoots etc as a readily available energy source, stands to reason with elevated levels of amylase being secreted into the digestive tract?. And the reason why some fish just don't get caught.... Who knows, certainly not me but it's fun to speculate
In reply to Post #60
Your next post is also relevant, in that some fish simply don't seem to switch on to particles, or boilies, yet get caught on maggots, worms or other 'natural' baits.
The last capture of the Queen in our lake was on maggots by a tench angler, around 3 weeks after being caught on boilies. One or 2 fish don't seem to eat anglers baits at all, yet have been seen.
There is so much natural food, snails, bloodworm, mussels that these fish may be totally natural food feeders.
Is the attraction of maggots the movement, or the amino acids?
I was ankle deep in the silt last week, even that close in, a handful produced loads of bloodworm. Out to waist deep and turning the rake over after clearing the weed, I was getting snails and bloodworm.
Scozza makes the point about what is available, the numbers of mussels seem lower ( on our lake) at the moment, but maybe that is just me.
Areas that were productive in the past you can see the feeding holes, and are currently not being fed on, maybe not enough food in at the moment?
Your next post is also relevant, in that some fish simply don't seem to switch on to particles, or boilies, yet get caught on maggots, worms or other 'natural' baits.
The last capture of the Queen in our lake was on maggots by a tench angler, around 3 weeks after being caught on boilies. One or 2 fish don't seem to eat anglers baits at all, yet have been seen.
There is so much natural food, snails, bloodworm, mussels that these fish may be totally natural food feeders.
Is the attraction of maggots the movement, or the amino acids?
I was ankle deep in the silt last week, even that close in, a handful produced loads of bloodworm. Out to waist deep and turning the rake over after clearing the weed, I was getting snails and bloodworm.
Scozza makes the point about what is available, the numbers of mussels seem lower ( on our lake) at the moment, but maybe that is just me.
Areas that were productive in the past you can see the feeding holes, and are currently not being fed on, maybe not enough food in at the moment?
In reply to Post #64
Good stuff nick and thought provoking. There's no doubt that tiny electrical current caused by movement plays a part in the attraction, surely the carp are adept at utilising every sensory organ they have. Regards to maggots etc, I tend to look at how they feed and the soup of enzymes that they secrete onto whatever they are consuming must create one hell of a signal of bacteria, ffaa, that is of course if there's enough of em in an area, or other critters that feed the same way? I'm a big believer in natural harvesting especially on natural lakes. One lake I fished, 200acre was amazing. The carp would turn up in one margin in September and absolutely smash it to bits as it was covered in zebras, yet all year you wouldn't see a carp there. They are very adept at knowing where to feed and what time to be there, maximising food availablity Vs energy spent looking for it. On that lake the only way to catch if you couldn't find the seasonal feeding spot was to use "lures" , bright smelly popups that they had to explore!! No amount of food type boilie had an impact , ever. Imo this is where something like marks baits come into play, a carp sweet if you will ...tempting and interesting, enough to get a bite
Good stuff nick and thought provoking. There's no doubt that tiny electrical current caused by movement plays a part in the attraction, surely the carp are adept at utilising every sensory organ they have. Regards to maggots etc, I tend to look at how they feed and the soup of enzymes that they secrete onto whatever they are consuming must create one hell of a signal of bacteria, ffaa, that is of course if there's enough of em in an area, or other critters that feed the same way? I'm a big believer in natural harvesting especially on natural lakes. One lake I fished, 200acre was amazing. The carp would turn up in one margin in September and absolutely smash it to bits as it was covered in zebras, yet all year you wouldn't see a carp there. They are very adept at knowing where to feed and what time to be there, maximising food availablity Vs energy spent looking for it. On that lake the only way to catch if you couldn't find the seasonal feeding spot was to use "lures" , bright smelly popups that they had to explore!! No amount of food type boilie had an impact , ever. Imo this is where something like marks baits come into play, a carp sweet if you will ...tempting and interesting, enough to get a bite
In reply to Post #65
Love it, you know
Rich waters, au natural, for me it's spot fishing of the highest level
Love it, you know
Rich waters, au natural, for me it's spot fishing of the highest level
Although this diversion away from peanuts seems off topic it actually might not be. Chatting about feed spots, natural larders etc has taken me back to the humble peanut. I think we're all fairly agreed that nuts have little nutrition so when looking for something else to get bites there is potential to establish an addictive element to those wary fish away from nutritional signals by tapping into a different response, an addictive response that over rides everything else, is it possible, who knows, but I'm convinced the peanut triggers some neurological response. Why else would carp eat them with such gusto?
In reply to Post #69
I'd love to try maggot infused silt, as in the maggots being in the silt like bloodworm, giving off the excretion enzymes etc, but it's an impossibility as if you wet maggots before use they float, so that means having them sitting in a bucket of lake (or river) silt overnight can't be done. Come to that I'm not sure how long before they drown...
You are relying on the attraction created by them being introduced at the time, which could be movement, or the enzymes or amino's.
There are some anomalies though, you rarely fish a single maggot with no freebies around it, it doesn't catch, yet a single lobworm on float tackle can and does, especially after summer rain.
Mot baits work best in some quantity, for most species, although a single boilie, a single tiger nut or peanut (there are others) can and does catch.
I'd love to try maggot infused silt, as in the maggots being in the silt like bloodworm, giving off the excretion enzymes etc, but it's an impossibility as if you wet maggots before use they float, so that means having them sitting in a bucket of lake (or river) silt overnight can't be done. Come to that I'm not sure how long before they drown...
You are relying on the attraction created by them being introduced at the time, which could be movement, or the enzymes or amino's.
There are some anomalies though, you rarely fish a single maggot with no freebies around it, it doesn't catch, yet a single lobworm on float tackle can and does, especially after summer rain.
Mot baits work best in some quantity, for most species, although a single boilie, a single tiger nut or peanut (there are others) can and does catch.
I'm sure I recently watched something where they baited with maggots and they were still alive after 24hr.It might of been a cyp film.
In reply to Post #70
Here's a good one for you and yes I did do this. Fishing a sandpit with little silt or anything really I decided similar to your silt idea. I picked up a big bag of ericaceous compost which has a pH of around 5 iirc and loaded it with hemp, maggot, and partiblend. This was duly balled in to the margin where I'd seen fish patrol but never stop for the freebies. The very next fish that approached stopped pretty much instantly done a few circles and started rooting around. This only works close in and pretty shallow as the compost is pretty light and it takes bloody loads to create something on the bottom yet it worked a treat. That's got to be the localised pH shift with the added bonus of a natural cloud being stirred up.
Here's a good one for you and yes I did do this. Fishing a sandpit with little silt or anything really I decided similar to your silt idea. I picked up a big bag of ericaceous compost which has a pH of around 5 iirc and loaded it with hemp, maggot, and partiblend. This was duly balled in to the margin where I'd seen fish patrol but never stop for the freebies. The very next fish that approached stopped pretty much instantly done a few circles and started rooting around. This only works close in and pretty shallow as the compost is pretty light and it takes bloody loads to create something on the bottom yet it worked a treat. That's got to be the localised pH shift with the added bonus of a natural cloud being stirred up.
In reply to Post #72
Maggots in molehill soil...
Now there's a thought.
Maggots in molehill soil...
Now there's a thought.
In reply to Post #73
Used to use molehill soil with pinkys and bag of live bloodworm in when match fishing (got them from a local fish shop) many years ago.
Great tactic for the silvers in autumn from memory - just saved it for matches as could be pricey
Used to use molehill soil with pinkys and bag of live bloodworm in when match fishing (got them from a local fish shop) many years ago.
Great tactic for the silvers in autumn from memory - just saved it for matches as could be pricey
In reply to Post #73
Or dodge the molehill soil and go completely different. Normal topsoil with added em1 culture, molasses and brewers yeast to feed the bacteria. The resulting enzyme and bacterial activity will be mega and with pellet, boilie, particles in there makes a natural spot.
Or dodge the molehill soil and go completely different. Normal topsoil with added em1 culture, molasses and brewers yeast to feed the bacteria. The resulting enzyme and bacterial activity will be mega and with pellet, boilie, particles in there makes a natural spot.
In reply to Post #75
Love something different, really gets me thinking lol
Somebody out there....
Love something different, really gets me thinking lol
Somebody out there....
In reply to Post #73
I have been known to go one step further and collect worm casts.
This is another level, please don't tell anyone else though.
I have been known to go one step further and collect worm casts.
This is another level, please don't tell anyone else though.
In reply to Post #70
Well I kind of did it.
I put some silt from the margins that had bloodworm, snails and whatever in the bait bucket, added 1 pint of maggots and some Vitalin just to soak up the water.
First fish over it was one that hadn't been caught before from the lake, and was over the big 30.
Admittedly the Vitalin may have been part of the attraction but it wasn't caught on a standard boilie...
Well I kind of did it.
I put some silt from the margins that had bloodworm, snails and whatever in the bait bucket, added 1 pint of maggots and some Vitalin just to soak up the water.
First fish over it was one that hadn't been caught before from the lake, and was over the big 30.
Admittedly the Vitalin may have been part of the attraction but it wasn't caught on a standard boilie...
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