Are there any pop ups out there that resemble the old richworth double strength ones ? My UB baits tutti supply have ran out and I need to get some more from somewhere. Any that you guys can recommend ? Cheers

The hinders stabilised tutti-frutti smells pretty close to me,

Not used them myself, but if I looking for a classic fruity bait - it would be my first choice

In reply to Post #4
proper job or A2 baits both good

In reply to Post #2
Didn't hinders buy the richworth tutti recipe?

In reply to Post #6
I believe they did yes - the hinders ones do smell very much like the Richworth originals to be honest, how close their recipe is to the original I have no idea.

However, smelling them gives me a big hit of nostalgia, from being a 14 year old trying to catch my first double :D

I've taken delivery of the hinders pop ups and they smell exactly like the ones I got from UB baits, now obviously I doubt they will be exactly the same but they look good enough to me, I also got a bottle of their neat tutti flavour and that is very potent, just like the original.

In reply to Post #8
I used the Hinders glug on some Mainline Tutti pop ups and the baits went absolutely rock hard. Not a problem of course just more of a heads up. I use them between now and April and they've caught me loads of fish.

In reply to Post #9
Cheers pal ? Did you use the glug or the bait spray ? I got a bottle of the neat flavour, that being said they pop ups come with a little pot of flavour to boost them so that will be enough for the tub I have.

In reply to Post #1
Ive used Asylum baits Tutti butti, tutti with N-buytiric very successfully. Im told its the original tutti with added organic acid. The carp certainly liked them

In reply to Post #9
exactly what i have done, mainline tutti pop ups but glugged in original richworth tutti boilie dip

In reply to Post #10
I used the glug.

In reply to Post #1
The forgotten flavours ones are apparently made with the original Richworth.

Very old bottles of the original.....

Why does everyone seem to think the Tutti flavour has changed. Everyone seems to want old dead stock flavours. I have a tub of Richworth tutti pops I bought recently and they smell exactly as I remember them as a kid. Why would Campbells who I believe make it for Richworth change it??

I don't think Campbells are in business anymore are they?

In reply to Post #17
Frutarom flavour house compound a really nice tutti

In reply to Post #17
Cambells are no longer in business, but the flavours are still available through the flavour house that purchased all the recipes from his children (The name escapes me but Google will know). 5kg (approx 5L) minimum orders now and the prices nigh on doubled over night.

Personally when Bob passed away, to me so did Cambell's. The bait industry is rife with folks who have their products made for them by somebody else behind the scenes. Something I personally always steer well clear of. The fact that in most cases that information is always kept a secret should speak volumes in itself. The flavours were Bobs pride and joy, his life's work. Trusting someone else to follow the same quality control is trust I am not willing to make.

The more fingers in the pie, the lower the quality is often the way it goes IMO.

Another point worth making.....

All this clamor for ancient flavors is a massive blind. When these flavors were all the rage and successful.... Flavors were a very new thing in carp bait. ANYTHING would have worked, any old investigation trigger because it was all brand new to the fish 🤣

People wanting 30 year old flavors and paying a fortune for them, are literally crazy. 30 years ago they were good yes. Because it was all new... Are they any good now? Of course not, there are many things that are far superior nowadays, the fish have been fished for, for 30+ years now with basic investigative triggers like Tutti Fruiti.

Anyone paying big money for a 30 year old oxidised RH flavor wants their head tested and they clearly understand zero about carp bait. Rod himself would be pissing his pants with laughter.

In reply to Post #20
Agree about the old flavours. The old ones I had kept through my teens bait making are in pretty poor shape.
The company that took Campbell's over is called plantex, and nothing is the same from what I have seen.
There are a few exceptions going back to old flavours. There were two that were leagues above anything I have seen in modern times, although one of the modern versions now available have shown to be very effective.
The animal regs that took out some of the ingredients in flavours certainly ruined one or two flavours.
But let's be honest here, flavours aren't the be all and end all of what makes a carp suck something up!

In reply to Post #21
Flavors were a very new thing in carp bait. ANYTHING would have worked

I think that is unfortunately the truth

I purposely try to use a bait with the least amount of chemical flavour possible. As TC says, we've gone a long way past needing them now.

In reply to Post #18
Frutarom got bought out by IFF, and that arm of the business is now called Tastepoint.

In reply to Post #24
i didnt know they'd been bought out, the plant in northants, the last time i drove past still has the fruitarom sign above its doors

Carp anglers can be funny sometimes. Often looking back through rose tinted spectacles. Over flavored semo balls made with very harsh chemical flavors were very successful for a period of time in the late 80's\early 90's.

But they became redundant, when we as carp anglers discovered that food baits applied properly, were a vastly superior bait for catching carp. This is the bit that anglers seem to forget when looking back through rose tinted spectacles. They just remember back to when tutti fruiti or nouvelle fizz caught more than anything else. But they don't remember WHY we stopped using them.

I've made my living by understanding the very simple fact, that taste is FAR FAR more important than smell, for a creature that lives under water. Smell does not work under water. Smell works in the tackle shop.

Take any oxidised 30 year old flavor and TASTE IT. It will taste like rank battery acid.

Anyone pushing this type of attraction is absolutely clueless. That is not progressing, that is regressing in a massive way. The clamor to make quick cash is all that matters nowadays for so many starting up. I get messaged all of the time by younger carpers who are desperate to make their living in carp fishing\bait.

I always give them the same advice. Think for yourself, be original and actually go fishing. Don't listen to all the ******** you are fed about carp bait previously in mags and now on YouTube etc... Because 99% of it is absolute ******** in reality. Those people just shouted louder than anyone else. Confirmation bias is a massive thing in the evolution of carp bait. Everyone copying some old formula. We understand so much more nowadays than they did 30 years ago... But we still look back through rose tinted specs thinking that what worked so well back then, will work now. It's taken as gospel that the way to do things regarding carp bait... Is the way we were shown 30 years ago. Not much has changed. Because everyone just copies everyone else.... Some famous angler caught some fish from Yateley 25 years ago on a red fish meal.... For 25 years every new bait company starts up with a red fish meal. He would have caught them on tigers or numerous other things, he was a good angler. But for 25 years, red fish meal, red fish meal.... Think about that in depth for a minute.

It's all a load of rubbish in reality. Once you can see that for yourself, the sky is the limit. Don't follow, you will only get the same results as everyone else. That applies to fishing, and it also applies even more so to carp bait.

In reply to Post #26
TCarper, question for you:
When the Tutti's were being fished on Harefield originally, how rich a water was Harefield in terms of natural food?
Wasn't it still being dug?
I do remember it was mentioned in Hutchy's The Carp Strikes Back though

I'm sure after the Tutti-Frutti revolution on there Premier Fishmeals came on to rule the roost, in a number of waters.
I never did that well on the original Tutti-Frutti, I had better results on Salmon Supreme and Honey Yucatan shelfies, possibly because I was only baiting up with a few baits at a time.

In reply to Post #27
the mainline link
That is so much like honey yukatan of old
As soon as I opened it that came to my mind I didn't even need to go that smells like whatsit... as you do.

In reply to Post #27
Any newly dug pit is super rich. New ground is super fertile in terms of a lake. During a lakes first ten years after being dug is when a lake is at its richest in terms of nutrients. If you have an existing pit that is being dug/added too... The fish will have a weight explosion.

The biggest carp I've ever seen lived in a poaching pit. The pit had been recently partly re dug and added too, but was strictly no fishing at the time. That particular carp had only been caught once ever at just over 30lb. When I saw it with another fish I had just caught at over 40lb from the boat, it was closer to 70lb. The carp in the lake absolutely thrived on the lack of pressure and richness of the newly dug pit. They grew so much bigger on that neglect and the nutrients from the new ground. I caught a 12lb plus male tench from there too. An absolutely monstrous male tinca. We were under no illusions that there were likely a few British records in that pit of various species at the time. Otters got to them before the pits secrets were ever truly revealed.

There is a big difference between a hook bait and a food bait. Investigation triggers may work extremely well in a hook bait... But in a bait consumed en masse like a freezer bait the same investigation triggers become a repellent once they eat to many. Carp anglers and bait manufacturers don't seem to understand this simple fact most of the time.

Investigation triggers are not needed in food baits at all. They are actually a hinderence. The food is attraction enough. It's no good if the carp are attracted to a bait... But once they eat a load they end up with a bellyache. The flavors are only there for the anglers benefit in food baits. That's how much we have been ‘programmed' to think a certain way by previous carp fishing media that was controlled totally by bait companies money. It's still going on today, but via the internet now and free media. Back in the day before mags anglers HAD to think for themselves. Today they are preprogrammed from the very start into a certain way of thinking, by people who need to sell a ton of product. That has completely stifled innovation and free thinking. That has actually stopped our progression regarding carp bait IMO.

When the people making the media are actually clueless about carp bait, what chance do the people who take what they say as gospel have? Block it all out and think for yourself is the best advice you could ever be given by anyone.

In reply to Post #26
Cracking post. So true

I would also bet my bottom dollar it's was the sweet element that attracted them to the Tutti more than the flavour and the colour. When I used the freezer version I purposely put my hookbaits on a radiator in plastic bags, nice and sticky with the sweet stuff drawn to the outside

In reply to Post #29
Are you saying food baits are over engineered and cheaper basic bollies would catch as much as long as the hookbait has the right trigger?

In reply to Post #31
Quite possibly.

You could make a bait from maize meal, calcium caseinate, semolina, soya flour, wheat gluten, some liver powder, and a dose of liver flavour. There you go, you probably have Protavit Liver there! 
It was one of the most basic simple baits, yet very effective.
Your hookbait can be your food bait, or maybe a pop-up over the top if fishing a bit silty.
Stick liquid liver hydrolysate as your liquid and that can be a very could fish Catcher.

Try liquidised liver, liquidised squid, and semolina, another very effective bait.

In reply to Post #32
I was doing all of the things in your post back in the 80's

In reply to Post #33
Like you I was playing with bait back then, and the HNV or food source bait was the way we learnt to fish.

I don't think anglers now fish as we did, they are relying on attraction more than food.

In reply to Post #35
If you're fishing a water that sees regular helpings of decent bait and you can only go twice a month for 48 hours i dont think it matters what you chuck in as long as you have something tip top on the hook and in the right place.

Spot on for me. Quite a simple art fishing, the only thing you have to do is get a carp to take your hookbait in its mouth, that's it. Confusion created by thousands trying to be famous and telling folk how to do it and total confusion for probably a few hundred thousand sheep who have not got a clue

Nowadays the crafty carp is a lot smarter than the angler

In reply to Post #31
Quote... Are you saying food baits are over engineered and cheaper basic bollies would catch as much as long as the hookbait has the right trigger?

My opinion?

In the vast majority of cases, anglers use expensive boilies when they have absolutely no need too. There's a simple reason that anywhere I have fished for absolutely donkeys years, I have always been the top rod. Some of the toughest lakes around. No one, even the supposedly best anglers out fish me while I am there in terms of numbers. That's not a brag. That's fact. Where I fished, I caught more than anyone else. It's not because I'm some superman of an angler. I think it's been because I had a better understanding about what carp actually prefer to eat at certain times of the year... And that there are other things to feed/attract them with, that will always out fish boilies when the chips are down. That's not PC to say, in an industry where in its formative years, media was controlled virtually on bait companies money. Anglers all want to be sponsored by bait companies, who sell boilies. Add on to that, that I have always had the hook baits, even when no one else did. Imagine that, rocking up to a lake with the S2... When no one else had them. Unfair.

I very rarely actually use boilies on lakes when competing with other anglers. When I do, I tend to fill them up with water first to make them soluble, similar to any nut or particle which is already filled with water. (Think about this hard). In the form in which they come in a bag, they can always be made more soluble faster, and far more effective. I tend to use boilies for a very short period of the year. During the summer, particles will always be a better option as carpet feed. Fish are stupid. Get them preoccupied and nailed to a spot, they become very very easy to catch. Fill them up with high protein balls, they actually become harder to catch. Which kinda defeats the whole object. Anglers have been fed a perception, that they need to care for the fish (which they do). To look after them (which they do). But to feed them fillet steak? To lay them on a mat that costs 10 x more than the mat that you use for your own baby? All extremes. But it funds an entire industry now. The mags that anglers learned from, were controlled by the advertising. During carp fishings formative years, we as anglers were fed a perception. Perception is a massive thing in carp fishing. The reality is often very different. If you can see past all of that. It will give you a massive advantage over everyone else. ESPECIALLY when it comes to carp bait.

All my opinion of course.

In reply to Post #37
Totaly agree, i'd be surprised if i get through 20kg of boilies this year, normally couple of hundred in a year.

Carp are underwater pigs. They have an incredible ability to consume vast amounts of food in very short time frames. Nature made them this way, to be able to take advantage of natural food larders, which are time specific. When a carp starts eating bloodworm, it has the ability to continue eating, until the very last worm is consumed. 1kg of bloodworm, or 10kg of bloodworm, it matters not. It can only do this, as it can simply pooh the worms out as fast as it can eat and process them. Similar to a cow eating grass... It can do it all day long. Because the food is able to pass through the animal, literally as quickly as it is being eaten.

Carp are exactly the same as a pig or a cow. Pretty simple animals, that we elevate to a higher plane, simply because we pursue them as our hobby.

Nature made these animals able to consume incredible amounts of food, in a short period of time. (Not fillet steak). When trying to catch a carp... Why would you want to fill it up with high protein, stodgy, rubbery, dry balls? Made for convenience, so that they can be easily stored in a human environment, that is enveloped in air, and not water. Great for convenience for us as humans, as they are easily stored and to a certain extent deter smaller fish... Not the greatest in a feeding situation for a carp, where you as the angler are trying your very best to keep that fish feeding, until you receive the bite though, is it? Why would you want to feed them things that actually inhibit them from continuing to feed? When they stop feeding, you are not going to get a bite. Full stop. We have all experienced lakes these days being heavily pre baited with boilies by all and sundry.... And then the lake does not do a bite for weeks on end. It is one of the most frustrating parts of modern carping.

By adding water to your boilies and pre soaking them for lets say 12 hours first... The first thing is, you are making them easier for the carp to quickly pass through its system and thus continue eating... Not to go sit in the snags for the rest of the day to process a couple of kg of your stodgy dry in the centre balls in its belly. Ever seen a carp crapping out 20mm boilies? No you have not, because it does not happen. You are filling them with water before putting them into the lake, which is also making them far easier for the carp to even sense in the first place. The carp lives under water. Its food needs to be slightly water borne, to be able to even sense it properly. The current craze for liquids on boilies is heading in the right direction. It makes them much more attractive to the fish, because until they actually fill with a touch of water, the added liquids can actually be sensed properly by the carp and are attractive IMO. Crumbing baits? By doing this you are opening up the boilie and allowing the much smaller bits to fill with water quickly. Super attractive to the fish. The crumb, is more attractive than a round 20mm boilie that you crumbed it from. Why, it's the same thing? Because the crumb fills with water faster, that is why.

Think about it. Because it's all pretty simple really, if you have not been preprogrammed to think in a different way. RESULTS... ARE... EVERYTHING. If you want convenience in a bag fair enough, but don't follow the crowd like everyone else and do what they do. If you want to take your angling to an entirely different place... Start thinking for yourself.

In reply to Post #32
Probably the best bait I've ever used for catching carp and passed through them very quickly, wish you could still buy it I'd use it without a doubt. I tried Jim Rawcliffes equivalent at more takes baits but baits evolved over the years and it's not the same as the original Protavit livers.

In reply to Post #39
Nailed it... but please remove this post lol.

My biggest edge for years ..lol

In reply to Post #41
Take two 20mm fishmeal boilies made from identical base mix ingredients. One is made with all the artificial flavours we associate with traditional boilies. Let's say for arguments sake the flavour is Squid & Octopus.

So you have two fishmeal baits bound with eggs. Identical, except one smells to the human nose of S&O. This investigation trigger is a strong chemical smell/taste, that helps draw/attract the carp to the boilie. It lets the carp know, that it is food. That is traditional thinking, right?

The other identical non chemical smelling fish meal bait, instead of the flavour, it has half a tea spoon of water added to it twelve hours before.

So you have a dry, traditional S&O 20mm boilie straight from a bag, and you have a pre soaked with simple water version of exactly the same boilie that never had any flavour added.

Throw them both in front of a 50lb+ UK carp that's been constantly fished for over the past 20 years, every single day of its life. I know that the fish can simply detect the wet one without the flavour in FAR EASIER as food, immediately, instant... Because it is WET with water and pumping out food signals. But then also add on to that.... One of those two boilies you threw in is also viewed as completely safe to that fish. It never gets caught on those fully swollen wet ones, where all the silly human chemical added tastes/smells have long since washed away. You don't need the chemical to attract them to your food baits which they are going to eat en masse at all... You just need a bit of water, to literally activate them for simple underwater attraction from the food itself.

Solubility should be given FAR more credence in carp food baits for a target that lives under water, than poxy man made chemical flavours. Man cannot out think nature. We always think that we can, but we simply cannot.

Carp fishing is a fairly new thing, it's only been a 'thing' for the past 50 or 60 so years. We are all learning as we go along as a consequence. So much of what is taken as absolute gospel regarding carp bait, is absolute bullcrap in my own findings from actually going fishing.

I am not, and have never been a scientist, so I may not be describing every term or phrase perfectly. I am and always have been a highly obsessive carp angler.

I'll give it 4-5 weeks max until we see an article from the celebrities (cough, full timing bank tramps) detailing the below saying that's how they fish and thought processes.

Cast your mind back to garlic hemp and cured salted carp drugs.

Watch this space.



Great info Mark.

In reply to Post #43

In reply to Post #44
A2 baits

In reply to Post #45
There is an old bottle of Tutti on TT for £80