So new Tier 4 restrictions for London, the East and the Southeast start tomorrow.

Just hoping that's not my Christmas fishing during my time off down the drain.

Can anyone remember how long it took for the angling trust etc to clarify if fishing still had the green light the last few times the rules were changed?

In reply to Post #1
In reply to Post #1

In reply to Post #2
Very much so, here's the blurb on the BBC...

From midnight on Sunday 20 December tier four restrictions - similar to the last national lockdown in November - will apply in all tier three areas across the south and east of England.

In south-east England, the areas affected are:

Greater London (all 32 boroughs and the City of London)
Kent
Buckinghamshire (including Milton Keynes)
Berkshire
Surrey (excluding Waverley)
Gosport, Havant, Portsmouth
Rother and Hastings
In the east of England, the areas affected are:

Bedfordshire
Hertfordshire
Essex (excluding Colchester, Uttlesford and Tendring)
Peterborough

A stay at home order is being issued to residents - although those who have to travel for education or work may continue to do so.

Social mixing will be restricted to meeting one other person from outside your household in an open public space.

All non-essential retail will have to close, along with hairdressers, nail bars and indoor entertainment venues.

Support bubbles remain unaffected, as do the exemptions for separated parents and their children.

No-one in tier four will be allowed to join Christmas Day bubbles in tiers one to three.

The measures will be formally reviewed on 30 December.

Stay at home order issued with travel for work or education would indicate travel for leisure activities is not allowed, but you can meet with one other in a public space, so just need to hope that fishing will still be allowed under that part

In reply to Post #3
Why not speak to your syndicate leader, club secretary or lake owner. They will tell you whether they are open, beyond that if they are it's down to how you feel about it.

From what we can see it's back into lockdown measures which we had in November so no change to fishing atm but this might change.

In addition to the below it's been stated in several papers that if you don't live in a tier 4 area you're not allowed to enter a tier 4 area and if you live in a tier 4 area you're not permitted to leave it except in emergency.

Secondly if you live in a tier 4 area you must return home at night. No overnight stays. If this affects fishing, pass, just reading the rules

Yeah there are lots of ifs and buts. Hence why asking how long it took to confirm last time by the angling trust etc

In reply to Post #7
I think this is clearer than before - Tier 4 residents cannot stay overnight anywhere other than their own home. So I would think that rules out overnighters for anyone in Tier 4 or planning to go into tier 4.

However, I'd love to be proved wrong...

In reply to Post #6
Sorry just duplicated your post

I've just read the rules, it specifically says that golf courses must shut, so I wonder if they will lump angling into a similar category.

It also says you must stay at home for all but essential journeys. Is going angling gonna be seen by the police if you get stopped as essential?

I'm guessing. But for now I think angling is off.

Strange how we are still in this terrible situation,China seem to be handling it far better.It could be because the Chinese are doing what they are told and sticking to restrictions unlike the idiots in this country.If people don't start listening and sticking to guidelines this will be around for years

In reply to Post #10
The Angling Trust have made a preliminary reply to the new tier 4. They believe that angling can continue within tier 4 areas, but you shouldn't leave or enter a tier 4 region to fish. They also think that night fishing can continue.

Here in scotland total lockdown for 3 weeks starting boxing day , no travelling across the border ! Christmas is effectively cancelled ! But i will be piking so dont give 2 hoots

Looks like we're going to be ok...

"Outdoor sports courts, outdoor gyms, golf courses, outdoor swimming pools, archery/driving/shooting ranges, riding centres and playgrounds can remain open for individual exercise."

In reply to Post #14
.

In reply to Post #14
You got a link to that sauce? Their 4?

In reply to Post #16
What sauce do you want HP or Heinz

In reply to Post #11
Exactly that, I've been saying that for weeks.

In reply to Post #17
BBC website:-

"Gyms and indoor swimming pools must close but outdoor pools, sports courts and golf courses can stay open"

I think we're OK.

In reply to Post #19
All the digital display road signs say stay home essential travel only, going fishing is not essential.

Not all this again. It's Christmas

In reply to Post #11


Simple enough isn't it?

In reply to Post #20
Careful mate I said going fishing isn't essential last time and got loads of people having a go at me for it 🤣

In reply to Post #12
They are wrong, the rules specifically state 'no overnight stays away from home'....ergo no night fishing!

In reply to Post #25
The AT seem to take the opinion that you are allowed to travel within your tier for unlimited outdoor excercise/activity without any time limits you can spend doing this activity. Therefore as long as you are fishing you can spend as long as you want doing it. If you wind your rods in to get some kip, you are probably acting outside the rules. Whether or not the implications of tier 4 will change this remains to be seen. On a personal level, I'm stuffed anyway, I live in tier 3 but all my fishing is in tier 2. We're strongly urged not to travel to a lower tier, which I'll stick to.

Fishing is an outdoor recreation so it's allowed.

It's back to the same lockdown that we had in November for tier 4 areas as far as I can see and from what the press are saying.

If any of this changes then clubs/syndicate etc will need to stop you fishing till it changes.

****ing hell here is why we are in a **** storm and still will be in years to come.Perhaps if people put as much effort into sticking to the guidelines as they do worrying about fishing then we would be through this by now.Thats the problem with this country too many selfish ****ers,their life and what they want to do is more important than protecting themselves and others.

In reply to Post #28
True, and AT are not a government department, fact is as said before essential travel only so even if the place you fish is open unless its local and in low teir you can't go.

Seriously starting to get pished off with it all now.

In reply to Post #28
Talk about melodramatic.

It's a virus, we're not going to get rid of it, as seen by the first lockdown. The way things are going, living like this with a fatality rate of 003 to 004% for the vast majority of us, I don't think it's a life worth living.

Literally sick to the back teeth of the "oh my god, we're all going to die" reactionaries up and down this country. Pathetic doesn't even come close.

In reply to Post #31
You are exactly what is wrong with this country,the I don't care brigade I will do as I like because my life is more important than others.You have shown everyone on here before you are a complete and utter ****.I hope you become part of the statistics with an attitude like that.I will stick to keeping my loved ones and friends safe and obeying the guidelines

In reply to Post #32
100%

In reply to Post #32
Were did I say I don't care and I'll do as I please? Go on bright lad, show me.

I said in a nutshell that all of this has been a massive over reaction for something that kills a tiny fraction of the population, and I'll add, many of those fatality numbers have been manipulated in such a way that is highly suspicious and massively receptive. But you go girl with you're 'wont somebody think of the children' mentality.

Lightweight.

In reply to Post #33
I follow the rules in everything generally even before the virus, I'm old school where you respect authorities police etc whether they are good officers or numptys, the way people deal with problems these days is shocking, mental health and all that bollox, deal with it. It's where we are now. I will say I do not know the numbers but if a thousand people get this horrible virus and only single figures need hospital treatments do we really need all this? Point made by me and not really fussed how many agree with me or disagree. Happy Xmas to all those that deserve it, the rest can go fxxk themselves.

In reply to Post #31
We probably are, because it looks like the vaccine will be just as effective on the mutated strains too. Flu is prevalent because it mutates so much it needs a new vaccine developing every year.

Smallpox is from a virus and we don't see that anymore due to immunisation.

If Corona killed someone, then that's what goes on the death certificate as the primary cause of death. It doesn't matter what other illnesses they had. My mum died a couple of months ago and her cause of death was Sepsis and haemorrhages - she was terminally ill with cancer but that didn't directly kill her hence wasn't the primary reason on her death certificate.

In reply to Post #35
The virus is one thing, but ‘mental health and all that ********'?
People take their own lives and kill others with mental health problems, probably at a higher percentage than infected people succumb to covid.
Still we could just be old school and laugh at people who aren't quite wired correctly

In reply to Post #34
Im no lightweight,I have seen first hand what it does as my father in law had it.He was fit and healthy until he caught it and is still suffering now weeks after.My father in law was a paramedic for 36 years and is as tough as old boots,seeing him struggling to breath and the look of panic on his face was enough for me.This country is still in a state because bellends don't listen

In reply to Post #32
Aptly put braders.

In reply to Post #28


Getting back to your post#11 though, I don't think it's so much the Chinese doing what they are told, over there they are not told but are forced, heavy handed if you question.

In reply to Post #40
A few over here could do with that approach

In reply to Post #38
So some rando catches the Wu-Flu and the world has to stop spinning? Get over yourself. I know a load of people that have caught it and are still alive...

I tell you what you are, you're a child that still hasn't grown up, always needing to be told what to do and are more than happy being to what to do, and then seeing, hearing or reading other people not like you questioning the authoritarian dictate start screeching reeeee at any given opportunity.

Lightweight authoritarian loving manlet.

In reply to Post #42

In reply to Post #42
Tinhead said there was some good discussion in this thread.

He clearly wasn't talking about your posts eh?

In reply to Post #44
Wasting your time Mal,once a **** always a ****

In reply to Post #44
Stop stirring Mal.

In reply to Post #42
So you know loads of people that have caught it, your words, obviously all of the same mind set as you and lucky none had underlying health problems.

In reply to Post #42
just saying

In reply to Post #48
I can do that too Austrian MP tests can of Coke for Covid, comes back positive

In reply to Post #49
A baby died.. what has this got to do with somebody losing a child?

In reply to Post #47
And what mind would that be exactly?

In reply to Post #50
Nothing. It was just as random as your post.

Did you read this part? "but the cause of death was yet to be determined.".

In reply to Post #52
A baby had covid, wether it was a direct consequence of that or a complication due to the infection, that baby died..
The lack of compassion and use of words like rando I'm guessing you don't have kids?

In reply to Post #53
And yet again, another post taken off piste by the 'it's not that dangerous gang'.

Well done for ruining it with your drivel, again. Perhaps stick to the bit in the non-angling section?

In reply to Post #53
Ah, right, the old emotive angle right? Checked.

>>know your fallacies - appeal to emotions fallacy<<

In reply to Post #55
A neighbour is a critical care nurse, she said the reason we've gone to Tier 4 is they have simply run out of beds.

She looks knackered finding this very hard as you could imagine ~ her words “I wish folk would just stick to the rules.”

Not much to ask is it ?

That Austrian MP, more fake news....all getting boring

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/dec/17/instagram-posts/austrian-politician-goofed-testing-coca-cola-sampl/

In reply to Post #54
It started off ok didn't it. As you say it's better off in Non Carp now.
shame

My two pennies for what it's worth. My wife isn't very well. If she gets covid there's a very real prospect she will die. I'd rather she didn't. So the more people that follow the rules, the less likely she'll be exposed to the virus and hopefully she will make it through to getting the vaccine without catching it.

It's just a few more weeks now until the vaccine rolls out. We've done months of this already. I wish people would just give a little more thought to those in a less fortunate position than them sometimes.

My wife might be just another disposable statistic to some, but she's not to my family and my kids. Some of us aren't in the fortunate position of being able to ignore this virus and just ‘get on with it'

So everybody thinks the vaccine 💉 is the holy grail to normal life again 🤔
As bad as it is the fact is humanity is the virus 🦠 and planet earth 🌍 is the host .

All carbon units infecting the dying planet 🌍 will be eradicated , resistance is futile .

Once the infection is removed then planet 🌎 earth will recover in 10,000 years then life can start again earthlings .

In reply to Post #59
Just remember with the vaccine, 1 dose, followed by another a month later meaning you are “protected” roughly a month after that.

And anyone that says its imaginary, low mortality rate, etc, etc clearly doesn't live with anyone that works in healthcare.

In reply to Post #60
But there again, I'm in tier 2 and off fishing tomorrow

In reply to Post #60

In reply to Post #42
Tee Cee I don't normally reply to these threads but to add some balance to your view, our good friend and neighbour didn't survive Covid 19. She had an accident, caught Covid in hospital and died a while later.

I'm interested to know how you would you feel if you had caused her to be taken to that hospital when you were on the way to your fishing.
Yes people shouldn't need to be told what to do but just look around and see how some act and it's clear that they need guidance.
Fishing may be a solitary pastime and once there obviously little risk but what happens if your car breaks down or has an accident on the journey. End of the day, is fishing really that vital that we can't miss it for the short term?

In reply to Post #63
It's pointless arguing with people like that. They're all over Facebook too, perfect examples of the Dunning-Kruger effect (ignorant people don't understand their own ignorance, so they tend to be the most vocal and confident).

I'm in Kent now tier 4 my Mum urgently needs.an operation on her leg it was described as urgent 4 weeks ago. Now all non critical ops in Kent are postponed. There is a good chance she will lose her leg.. This is causing havoc there are thousands of people in a similar dire situation.

In reply to Post #56
Could be any number of reasons why she's knackred, she might not sleep very well, she's ill, or whatever. The nurses sure were flat out with the first lockdown eh, flat out making bumbass tick-tock videos.

Haven't heard that the reason for Tier 4 is down to bed shortages, from what I gather it's this 'supposed' mutated strain that's spreading faster than version 1.0.

As for the Austrian MP, lol, so the company that makes it who has a vested interest in the test says it wasn't carried out correctly...hmm. Maybe. I wonder, I wonder if that same Facebook affiliate *fact checker trusted sauce* found zero voting fraud in the recent US elections, my betting they found that everything was all above board, nothing to see here.

In reply to Post #66
Teecee - my misses runs the operating theatre down here. Do I trust what she sees every day, or what you read on facebook?

If you actually listened to Whitty, its absolutely down to bed occupancy - its up at around 95% in Kent iirc, and in the 90's in most areas. The “new strain” will only make that worse if people ignore the restrictions.

But the tinfoil hat you're wearing means that you'll come back with some lame conspiracy theory ( like the safety needle one doing the rounds a at the mo), so crack on, infect your friends. They'll be fine.

I know this might be hard for some of you that have an overwhelming propensity to listen to that internal voice of yours and accuse me of not caring and basically doing as I please regardless of others, but that internal voice that you've listened to and vocalised here is wrong. Check it, I wear a mask, I give people the required room, pick up an item from a shelf and not place it back, and all that jazz. Burst that little bubble for you...pop!

As for being ignorant: how can I be anything but well informed when I'm bombarded at work or on the radio, the news 24/7 about this super duper mass killer that we've all got to be practically s-hitting a brick about that has a survival rate of 99.7-99.6 for the vast majority of the population, seriously kids?

It's mental how some people react to others that question things, but then again, I shouldn't be surprised and pretty much expect it seeing the research on how easy it is to get large numbers to mass conform.

In reply to Post #67
I ain't on Facebook.

Get a grip some of you ladies.
Going fishing on your own and keeping out the way of people, is NOT going to affect the virus \ hospital beds etc.
Most of the virus has been spreading in the shops, outside the shops on the high street, and the factories, work places that have been open.
The Shops have been rammed the last few weeks. Think about it.
Lock down after lock down won't stop the spread of the virus, particularly if this new strain is what has been said.
Unless you do a proper lock down. Which means you can't get food.

In reply to Post #69
So - do I listen to my missus (for the first time) who works on the frontline, or wherever you get your information from?

Going fishing isn't a problem, providing you wear a mask if talking to people, wash hands, etc, etc,

In reply to Post #70
Going fishing? You do know you're actually killing people right?

Enough of that sitting on your own minding your own business...NOW!!! Literally Hitler.

In reply to Post #71
Me 😁

In reply to Post #73
Ok Donald!

In reply to Post #72
Sitting on your own, minding your own business isn't a problem, but look at the rail stations yesterday jammed with people trying to flee London, despite bring told not to 🤷🏻‍♀️

I had to chuckle when someone said something along the lines of “if I break the rules and catch COVID, or give it to someone, its the govt's fault for not stopping me”. Can't fault the logic

In reply to Post #63
Cornish, first off, let me commend yourself on putting over a commendable, and intelligible argument as apposed to most...not just on here, but social media in general just shouting with no real substance to their argument

This is my view......its the view from a guy that is far more comfortable financially than he deserves to be, by a long shot and totally secure in life....the epitome of happiness.....

Im a father of 3, happily married and have suffered massively, mental health wise this past year. I did not see this coming, and had zero, ZERO warning of it affecting me.I have no idea why it has, and have actively seeked help regarding this. I had the perfect life.

So when you ask, " End of the day, is fishing really that vital that we can't miss it for the short term" For me, and my immediate family, it is.

It doesn't mean i'll take the piss and and stop at every stop or shop en route, but for me my fishing on a 90+ acre pit with none...or very few public interactions on the way is worth the risk.

In reply to Post #75
You're always going to get c..ts. The same type of c..nt that pulls up on the side of the road and tips out a load of asbestos for some other unfortunate to get rid of. People kill, steal and murder, all against accepted norms and all illegal, but people still do these things.

There's two choices, either carry on with this nonsense the way we are, or just let it rip through the globe and take out who it's going to take out, and if that means I kark it because of option No:2, so be it, the greater good and all that.

In reply to Post #72

In reply to Post #77
That's the thing tho, you might be happy karking it, but is (potentially) everyone you pass it on to?

It's not like crabs......

In reply to Post #79
Good point.

Where does all this end? Seems like the gift that keeps giving. Thing is, none of these constant lockdowns/tier systems/rasing and lowering are working, and I'll posit will work. The only logical conclusion that springs to mind is let it rip. There are those that might point to China and say 'look, look at the wonderful job they're doing with the China Virus™' I honestly don't believe anything that comes from the Communists in China - as dodgy as you like. I have heard it said that there's satellite imagery that indicates their incinerators where the bodies are sent are going 24/7, how true that claim is I don't know, could well be a load of old balls for all I know.

In reply to Post #80
Find a way to protect the 1% or whatever it is that are proper vulnerable to this virus and let the rest of us get on with it.
There is so much disproportion with this Covid...
There are people who are going into hospital with covid symptoms that don't need the hospital.
People that really need hospital that aren't allowed, and people are losing their jobs and are going to be kicked out onto the streets.
There are also the idiots that don't wear face masks and disrespect social distancing.

In reply to Post #80
The thing is the lock downs have worked. Everyone that's needed hospital care for covid in this country has received it. Our hospitals did not get over run. We didn't run out of ICU beds. Following your logic, yes eventually survival of the fittest would eventually win out and the virus would die out. But many many thousands of people who would have received hospital treatment and most likely would have survived would now die from their being no nhs to treat them.

Not once has the government said we are locking down and the virus will go away. They said lock down to protect the nhs and by any measure. That worked.

In reply to Post #80
All because they left the fridge door open.

In reply to Post #82
Well they obviously haven't worked if you take the last few weeks.
The cases in tier 3 have risen.
And now we have a variant that is "up to 70% more transmissible than the other one"
Not that I would trust any of them Scientists.
We also have a p*ss poor media \ press saying all the wrong things and asking all the wrong questions.

In reply to Post #84
Of course the infections have risen. The point isn't to stop all infections is it. The point is to stop the peak level of infections swamping the available care.

So your saying that they number of infections now is exactly the same as it would have been if we'd not had any lockdowns?

In reply to Post #68
Depending on how you approach the data with time lapse modelling, the actual mortality rate in the UK is around 1.5 to 2% of reported cases. So the 99.7% figure is incorrect... Where did you get that from, Facebook?

In reply to Post #85
The lockdowns that have been in place have suppressed the virus .... to an extent.
But not enough... just look at the carnage we are in now.
If it carries on we will have so many on the streets without a job and home.
Disproportion.
We can't just keep killing businesses and making people unemployed.
We need a new strategy.
More temp. hospitals that they are actually going to USE, and target the vulnerable.

In reply to Post #87
What do we mean by vulnerable ??

Are we saying shield them and let everyone get on with it ?

But isn't that what will eventually happen as those over 50, the extremely vulnerable and those with underlying health conditions - so a total of @ 1/3 of the population.

With no vaccine for the rest - I think that's where we will be come summer.

In reply to Post #87
In every model done, it's been proved beyond any doubt, that with a population density like ours, there isn't any way to shield the vulnerable whilst letting everyone else get on with it. Who exactly is going to care for all these people you are locking up? Who's going to shop for all these prisoners you want to create? Where's these magically doctors surgeries and dentists all staffed only by other vulnerable people? There is no feasible way to lock up a massive part of the population and keep them away from the virus. It's a myth.

I'm sorry that people are losing their jobs, I've been made unemployed in the past myself with a mortgage and kids and I know how unpleasant it is. But I'd sooner every one of your family lose their job than one member of your family lose their life. I've lost jobs, they come and go, they can be replaced, family members can't.

In reply to Post #89
Disagree with your first paragaraph. It could be done , they just don't give a sh*t and can't be bothered.
And we are all being locked up in these lock downs.
When you have a virus which doesn't effect 99.9% of people and we are all being thrown to the wolves, something is definitely wrong.
Disproportion.
I suppose you think people going fishing tomorrow, without coming into contact with anyone, is totally wrong? Which after all is what this thread is all about.

In reply to Post #90
I agree mate.

I'm in tier 4 now the cases are 167 per 100,000 in my area and has a population of 167,000, so looking at just over 300 cases for an entire borough. Talk about over reaction.

Only way we can move on is to let the virus run its course, you can't continue to suppress it forever.

Everyone sitting waiting on this vaccine, they should vaccinate the elderly and high risk people then just carry out strict testing so we can resume normality IMO

fck knows why colchester has been left in tier 2,the place is over run with students and turks on dodgy visas...

In reply to Post #91
Agree otherwise we will have this for the foreseeable future .
But looking at it will we have a working population when it's finally over or just a bankrupt country with no future for years ahead .
Have the decisions made destroyed our children's future in a bankrupt Britain 🇬🇧

In reply to Post #90
Disagree with your first paragaraph. It could be done , they just don't give a sh*t and can't be bothered.

How? So if you were in charge tomorrow. How are you going to achieve that? Enlighten us. Exactly who Is it that's in charge that can't be bothered? The government? The scientists? The military? The lizard people?

you have a virus which doesn't effect 99.9%

That's simply not true either. The mortality rate alone of the virus is 1.5-2% of those infected. And that's just people dying. Then of course there's all the people who require long stay hospital admissions but survive. Then all the people who are suffering with long covid. Plus those who get it but make a recovery at home.

You do realise that the rolling infection rate is currently running at something like 580,000 people a week don't you? I'm not sure where you get your facts from but 580,000 is a damn sight more than 0.1% of the population as you suggest. In fact the current ons study estimates around 1 in 95 people in the population to be currently infected.

In reply to Post #86
I was wrong. I was referring back to older data sets.

Funnily.enough, looking at Wiki (crap source I know) currently the death rate is at 3.5%. Although, bearing in mind, it would be very prudent to be sceptical of these death rate figures.

In reply to Post #84
‘Not that I would trust any of them scientists'

That's the trouble today isn't it, people would rather believe a post on Facebook from someone with 1 GSCE than medical experts with half the alphabet after their names.

In reply to Post #93
We better hope the vaccine strategy will work, and quicker.
Constantly having a lockdowns every other month, p*ssing on the young and poor is not a good long range strategy.

In reply to Post #95
These figures don't tell the whole story though
The knock on effect is the problem and the healthcare system we enjoy is in jeopardy. Let's say for arguments sake you got hit by a bus, or a relative was diagnosed with cancer.. while laying there dying without medical assistance you won't find any comfort with smart arse “check it.. some rando has wu-flu” comments.
My partner had a horrific pregnancy and birth during all this, lots of it alone and frightened.
Me, I was at work while some people sat at home reading/posting **** on the internet and moaning about going fishing.
It's never been just about the 1.5-2%. It's about the mums, dads, sons, daughters etc. who rely on a free and semi functioning nhs.
I'm amazed more people care about Terry's new book arriving late with a dog ear or two or going to the pub than an inability to screen every child who may need it for cancer

In reply to Post #98
Yes, the NHS is f*cked due to massive underfunding before this pandemic started.
You said it.... now there is a mass disproportion towards Covid (1-2% of the population) (f*ck the rest, cancer and everything else) .
Smelly.

In reply to Post #99
But that's the point. All the other things could be done if people would just stay at home. The reason operations are being cancelled is because ventilator beds are being taken up with people who have COVID. Once ITU is full, the only other dept that have ventilators is theatres, so if their ventilators are being used for COVID patients, they have to cancel ops.

“So open a nightingale” - so where exactly do you get he trained staff to staff it from? The hospital that's full of COVID patients?

When people say “it's only 167 people in my area” how many ventilator beds do you think your hospital has?

Anyway, off fishing in a bit - tier 2 and will stay away from people.......

In reply to Post #98
I'll agree that the NHS is in a terrible state, from swathes of people flooding these shores from around the globe putting massive strain on it, to the worst of it being this shinning turd >The Great PFI Swindle<

I hope everything turns out for the best for your wife, your newborn and yourself 👍

In reply to Post #101
Ah! That would be the people who keep the health service running, many on low pay in a service that has been degraded by 10 years of austerity.

In reply to Post #102
No, I'm talking about bogus refugees and economic migrants flooding in.

If you wanna talk about low tier NHS staff, read the link, suss out that the NHS has been and is being rinsed via PFI/PPP, top heavy middle to upper tier management rinsing it = look abroad for already trained staff and insert them into the NHS...rinse and repeat.

I live in Hereford "Tier 1" I'm alright Jack, Merry Christmas all

Now why are we at such a low infection rate that we can be placed in a lower Tier? my mind boggles as I see the same **** going on in my City as I do the country over, is it possible that the people of Hereford are so mutated by hundreds of years of inbreeding that Wu-Flu cannot take grip here Ummm NO, is it that possibly false statistics have put the City into a lower Tier? more than likely as lets be honest since this **** storm started in March who really knows whats going on, I certainly don't profess too, how do they make these decisions when the rate of infection is basically changing daily, we should of all been Tier 6.0 for a month in March and by that I mean absolutely no movement at all, then possibly we would not be in the mess we are now.

Why did we build Nightingale hospitals at a cost if millions if were not using them? if the reason is as previously stated we do not have the resources to staff them then why build them in the first place adding God knows how much extra to the bill to be paid when this **** storms eases, run by clowns being watched by idiots.

Just for some perspective

Let's round up the total population to 70,000,000 (more like 80,000,000 if there was a census)
Let's round up current infections of Covid to 2,000,000
Let's round up the current deaths due to Covid to 70,000
That equates to 0.1% of the population has died from Covid

I know it's cold to put people down as simple statistics and numbers, obviously any death is horrendous.

In reply to Post #105
And yet you keep doing it... Maybe when you know someone who dies or is badly affected by it youll see sense, I'm guessing it's not likely you will though..

In reply to Post #105
Finally. Someone who understands the numbers. So with all the restrictions, the pain in the arse lockdowns, the cancelling of Christmas etc etc we've managed to keep the death toll at (only) 70,000, or as you say 0.1% of the population. This is from a disease that we know with good solid numbers kills at worse about 2% of those infected. So if we'd done nothing, just carried on like everyone under 30 seems to think we should, then we would currently be looking at a death toll of about 700,000-1.4 million.

The lockdown is painfull. My business took a big hit in the summer and without the government help it wouldn't exist now, that would be seventeen years of hard work gone, and probably my house as well.

But believe me, if we hadn't had the restrictions we've just been through, then you really would know what being thrown to the wolves is really like.

In reply to Post #100
On the point of 167 people have it in the area - how many ICU beds are needed. From a quick google search roughly 2.3% of people who get it are admitted to ICU. So that's about 4 people....

I'm sceptical about a lot of it, although not enough to be stupid and irresponsible. I am "doing the right thing" but I think the Government have dropped a massive clanger over the last few weeks.

The "new mutant strain" has been around since September, there's nothing new about it at all but they have laid it on with a trowel to cover up the fact that they should have put London into T3 weeks ago......only thing is that it has massively backfired as Europe closes it's borders to the UK.....fascinated to see what they come up with this week as the damage limitation plan kicks in.

The numbers are clearly manipulated to suit the particular rhetoric at the time....hospital capacity is lower at the moment than it was at this time last year, the Nightingales are sat empty gathering dust and it was only a month or so ago that it was claimed fewer people needed ICU care due to the steriod Dexamethasone that we evidently have an "endless supply" of...

In reply to Post #107
You could also add in the fact that if we just let it run then the health service would be overwhelmed so the percentage death rate would no doubt be higher.

The Xenophobia is strong in this thread! Oh I forgot its full of carp anglers, why should I be surprised. Fair play to the guys who clearly still have their head screwed on and appreciate not going fishing for a bit is the lesser of two evils when compared to drowning in your own lung secretions.

In reply to Post #109
Surely cant be just me thinking that this new strain and restrictions/ban to travel abroad has got something to do with brexit deal negotiations coming to an end?

In reply to Post #112
Now the nutters are coming out the wood work, surely this thread needs to go to non carp?!

In reply to Post #111
"The Xenophobia is strong in this thread"

Nice flag👌 You do know what a phobia is don't you? Just incase you don't, it's an irrational fear of something/someone. There's nothing irrational about pointing out what is a well know and we'll documented truth as the Home Secretary has pointed out many times recently.

In reply to Post #114
I suggest you look up the meaning of the word xenophobia - People referring to it as the 'Wu-flu' and blaming migrants for the state of the NHS are both xenophobic statements but yeah, you carry on spouting your made up numbers and treating people as statistics. Doesn't affect my life one jot

In reply to Post #109
Good post 👍

We'll find out in due course what the effects of this new strain is on those affected by it.

As for leaving Europe: I think this plays right into the hands of those running things in the European Union. I'm guessing they'll give Boris's negotiating team a nod and a wink and say...'checkmate, your move wiseguy.'

In reply to Post #115
So designating where something comes from or where its first reported is somehow an irrational fear

Spanish Flu
Hong Kong Flu

Pointing out that vast numbers will and does have an adverse affect on an already strained resource is purely logical, not irrational. If there was a massive boom in the population within these borders irrespective of who those people might be, the same logical argument would apply.

In reply to Post #117
Your ignorance is staggering. I won't waste anymore of my time.

In reply to Post #109
Perfect Troll behaviour

Just google what a troll is for an explanation and look at what you wrote.

In reply to Post #118
Don't go. Explain my ignorance. I'm intrigued.

In reply to Post #119
Really? How am I trolling then mate, do explain?

In reply to Post #120
I would, as I'm all for opinionated discussion, but I've just read through the thread and you do in fact appear to be a bellend so I won't bother.

In reply to Post #122
May i suggest that its probably time to calm down a tad

We are all frustrated with the whole COVID situation, lockdowns, the effects on people livelihoods, the worry about our families, money, health, schooling, restrictions, Blame culture blah blah blah..

everyone has their own views and opinions on the subject and so they should do, but come on, if all we got to moan about is going fishing, we haven't got to much to moan about really! having a pop at people for their opinions, right or wrong isnt the way to go in my book.

happy Xmas everyone, takecare of yourselves and more importantly your families

A positive turn of events is around the corner. France is setting up a protocol to enable movement from the UK. That's good news.

Because of this new strain, things are looking very dicey as other countries around the globe are effectively walling us in.

In reply to Post #122
Finally, a concrete fact on this thread

In reply to Post #124
I think they call it 'taking control of their borders' - something like that...

And most people who bother to find out the truth know that Spanish flu was actually US flu....

In reply to Post #126
I think it was called Spanish Flu as unlike a lot of governments who tried to cover up the seriousness of the outbreak to avoid panic, the Spanish put their hands up as to how bad it was. So it unfairly became known as Spanish Flu. Obviously in those times they didn't have the DNA sequencing techniques that we now have. So diseases were often named after the area of the initial outbreak. Whereas now days we tend to refer to the actual strain like H1-N1. SarsCov-19 etc etc.

Personally I think it would be a lot more fun if every country got to name a disease like they do with storms.
“The Uk have decided to call this latest Pandemic Colin”

In reply to Post #124
Wall us in they maybe but fact is this new strain is present in those countries as well as Spain and Italy have confirmed.

In reply to Post #128
I did chuckle when I saw that they were banning all incoming flights from the uk to their countries, but not banning flights from their country to the uk. Unless they intend on keeping all their aircraft here when they arrive. I'm guessing the crews will be returning back with whatever infection they picked up whilst here, especially if they have a lay over.

In reply to Post #128
Really, confirmed? Got any links?

I would have thought that seeing as it's been around a while and how easily transmittable it is, sure it's going global like the initial outbreak did.

Maybe we'll get the Brit-Flu designation 😁

In reply to Post #126
Yup, fair enough for them to react that way.

Yeah, you're right about the Spanish Flu, wasn't it something to do with the way it transmogrified as to the reason for the naming?

Are the shelves empty yet?

In reply to Post #126
Yep It got called Spanish Flu with Spain being neutral in WWI and not having media blackouts, Spain was the only one who reported it, so that's how it got called Spanish Flu.

In reply to Post #132


i see the French have just announced lorry movement so we will all be able to buy copious amounts of food to throw away when the use by date/s run out

In reply to Post #132
I'm not gonna start panicking until I can't find a new rod bag. Then this S**t gets real.

In reply to Post #135

In reply to Post #132
TeeCee
Assuming you are still advocating a let it rip policy would you care to answer my question to you back in post 63?

I have heard that if you have relatives round on Christmas day the Police can force entry and make them go home !!
do you think this is a free service or do you have to book ?

In reply to Post #137
It's a difficult question to answer other than saying that of course I'd be empathetic towards the whole imaginary scenario, bearing in mind, in such an imagined situation, you could replace Covid for Flu.

As a young kid, I caught a severe Flu that was suspected to be meningitis, turned out to be just a very severe flu, so severe in fact that I spent 3 months on a ward in a tent. I could have picked that up from you for all we know unsuspecting and unintentionally.

Unless someone does something specific like knowingly infecting another, and given there's many a thing that we can all pass on to one another that could end up being fatal, I'm not sure how best to answer your question.

In reply to Post #138


They'd be rushed off their feet offering that service. Can you imagine the demand for arresting the mother in law?

In reply to Post #140
"Can you imagine the demand for arresting the mother in law?"



Whispers in cops ear 'can you Taz her?"

In reply to Post #139
As you say it's a difficult one, even if the accident didn't occur on or because of someones fishing journey, the trip to hospital wasn't imagined and the consequences to my friend and neighbour were ultimately fatal.
Perhaps it might cause you and hopefully a few others to think about the risks however small.
Remember a very small risk (that could often be avoided) taken by many becomes a much bigger risk in total.

I certainly wouldn't go out in public and knowingly spread an infection and expect the same from others.
I also have decided to minimise my journeys as far as possible to reduce the risk to myself and others, which is especially important now the NHS is at breaking point, unfortunately some do not think the same way.

In reply to Post #108
4 EXTRA people. How many ITU beds do you think hospitals have?

In reply to Post #134
People panic buying already, I've just been asked to supply Asda with shop replen and 3.5T drivers as they cant cope with the volumes being bought.

In reply to Post #144
No doubt the same ****s that cleared the shelves before leaving the old with zero until the government stepped in and got the shops to prioritize the old and NHS workers. Man that pissed me off biggly.

Distinctly remember walking into Sainsbury's at the height of the madness and there was practically nothing left

In reply to Post #105
Its what could happen in addition to what has you ****

Good thread this with lots of constructive posts.......

Just ignore Spanker the ****er if he turns up with his drivel from the Non carp thread.......

In the past week alone the hospitalisations in the SE doubled from 27% to 54%(that's bed capacity)..... this is the gravity of the situation..

This is serious sh*t. Please follow the rules and if your not do everyone a favour and stop being a **nt.

Thanks.

In reply to Post #108
This is true.
Once again disproportion towards Covid.
Alot of the people going into Hospital with Covid don't actually need a bed!
Also, how many of the Covid death statistics actually die of Covid.
They have it on the certificate but they don't die because of Covid.

In reply to Post #119
Yeah righto I think your comments in #148 fit the definition of a Troll more accurately...

In reply to Post #148
.

In reply to Post #148
And those numbers look like a big leap. From what I understand, currently, bed occupation in the South East is at normal levels for this time of year. Also worth keeping in mind is the fact that there are less people in hospital this time around than there was with the first outbreak.

It would be helpful if they put X amount of positives from X amount of test taken. For a bit of clarity they did 433k tests yesterday, 100k more than last Sunday. Puts abit of perspective on the headline grabbing 36k new cases

In reply to Post #153
But that's it, there are not 36k "new" cases at all, it is 36K positive tests....... and a high percentage of those will have tested positive previously, probably numerous times....

In reply to Post #152
“ Also worth keeping in mind is the fact that there are less people in hospital this time around than there was with the first outbreak.”

Erm, totally untrue. There are actually many more people in hospital (down here, at least) than first time round, but less in intensive care. Whether it's because it seems to be the younger ones getting it now, better understanding of how to treat it, or most of the old ones got killed off in may, dunno.

Glad I went fishing, bit wet but had a 30m and a 20c so far. Didn't ring any food as was going to get takeaway delivered but they won't. C***s. Starving now, don't they know my missus is a key worker?

In reply to Post #155
I suppose it's where you are. The highest recorded peaked at 14, 712 on April 12th, as of the Dec 17 were now are at 15, 465.

Pissed off I can't go fishing. Had big plans to sit freezing my nuts off and fish all the way through until my place froze over or keep going and get a headstart of the fairweather *spring anglers*. There's worse going on in the world, I could be on a ventilator struggling to breathe, gasping for air. Still rather be angling chasing large Cyps.

Didn't have a holiday this year, was saving my time up for now as I knew my place would be empty and not get my head filled with nonsense from other anglers. Oh well.

In reply to Post #156
I'd rather be on a ventilator struggling to breathe than sitting here eyeing up a kilo of HydraK as I'm so hungry......

In reply to Post #157
Like eating cum lol.

Is it cold out there? Was freezing earlier. Had to put the heating on it was so brass monkeys.

In reply to Post #158
Ah no, cums fine but not very filling.

Really, really mild. Sitting here in a T-shirt. Just very wet!

In reply to Post #159
unironically well jelly. Was soooo looking forward to these next few days. My place is like a mud bath, totally swamp like, how's the mud?

Last train leaving St Pancras , pre lockdown , we are fu**ed

link.

In reply to Post #152
ITU is already full in some Kent Hospitals; non COVID ITU patients are being moved out to parts of Hampshire that are still in Tier 2

In reply to Post #160
Brown and, um, muddy?

In reply to Post #162
Moving patients from teir 4 to lower teir now most of the country in teir 4.

In reply to Post #162
The question is how many of these CV19 patients actually need IC, let alone a hospital.
Disproportion.

In reply to Post #165
The ones that are in the beds that would die without IC. Pretty simple.