Good evening.
I've been thinking a lot recently about protein levels and the fact carp can only utilise a certain amount.
Yet a lot of the old and excellent baits, would be coming out very high in protein 60%+.
Which made me question, even though a carp can only utilise a certain amount would it still rather select a higher protein bait than it requires?
I've been thinking a lot recently about protein levels and the fact carp can only utilise a certain amount.
Yet a lot of the old and excellent baits, would be coming out very high in protein 60%+.
Which made me question, even though a carp can only utilise a certain amount would it still rather select a higher protein bait than it requires?
In reply to Post #1
I guess you would have to ask Fred Wilton on his theory for high protein baits.
For me, proteins are made up of amino acids, In simple terms I think this is why carp find them so “attractive”
As for digestion, if you cannot absorb it it will just pass through you. I think a human is around 33 grams, anything over this per meal is a waste, can't remember, it's been a long time? it makes sense to overload it though to ensure that all the amino acid requirements are met when broken down
Proteins in the human diet can fill you up quickly. A carp has no stomach as such so will just take out all the nutrients from a bait as it passes through it. The question is, when is a carp full
I guess you would have to ask Fred Wilton on his theory for high protein baits.
For me, proteins are made up of amino acids, In simple terms I think this is why carp find them so “attractive”
As for digestion, if you cannot absorb it it will just pass through you. I think a human is around 33 grams, anything over this per meal is a waste, can't remember, it's been a long time? it makes sense to overload it though to ensure that all the amino acid requirements are met when broken down
Proteins in the human diet can fill you up quickly. A carp has no stomach as such so will just take out all the nutrients from a bait as it passes through it. The question is, when is a carp full
In reply to Post #1
A carp doesn't swim round with a nutritional calculator.
But depending on time of year, and Mother Nature carp requirements, they may well over a period of regular eating, prefer one higher protein type of boilie over another low protein one to intake extra nutrients.
The more longer term carpers amongst us, Would have all caught on what was classed as old School high protein milk protein boilies, and everything between this, mid and then low protein baits.
Protein baits were the fashion back then, like the cell and krill nowadays
Fred Wilton proved there is something in the whole HNV recognition, too much so, mega results, not to be coincidental.
Anything surplus to a carps requirements will just pass through.
A carp doesn't swim round with a nutritional calculator.
But depending on time of year, and Mother Nature carp requirements, they may well over a period of regular eating, prefer one higher protein type of boilie over another low protein one to intake extra nutrients.
The more longer term carpers amongst us, Would have all caught on what was classed as old School high protein milk protein boilies, and everything between this, mid and then low protein baits.
Protein baits were the fashion back then, like the cell and krill nowadays
Fred Wilton proved there is something in the whole HNV recognition, too much so, mega results, not to be coincidental.
Anything surplus to a carps requirements will just pass through.
In reply to Post #3
Thanks gentlemen.
I see a lot of posts regarding lower protein content and just trying to understand the thinking behind it,
when you would be using a bait that is inherently less attractive.
I realise it might be so you could still bait in quantity, as the carps metabolism slows down.
But you could achieve this with different baits.
Just playing devils advocate really.
Regards Tom.
Thanks gentlemen.
I see a lot of posts regarding lower protein content and just trying to understand the thinking behind it,
when you would be using a bait that is inherently less attractive.
I realise it might be so you could still bait in quantity, as the carps metabolism slows down.
But you could achieve this with different baits.
Just playing devils advocate really.
Regards Tom.
In reply to Post #1
There was also the fact that with these high protein baits generally only small amounts were being used, they were and still are very effective.
There was also the fact that with these high protein baits generally only small amounts were being used, they were and still are very effective.
In reply to Post #1
A lot of the older high protein baits do not have a very good digestible content. Some of the ingredients are also used in the glue industry
So take you >60% bait and maybe only 25% of it is digestible. Now make a decent fishmeal with a 35%-40% protein level and you will have 30% of the bait as digestible. The lower protein level bait is better for the fish
A lot of the older high protein baits do not have a very good digestible content. Some of the ingredients are also used in the glue industry
So take you >60% bait and maybe only 25% of it is digestible. Now make a decent fishmeal with a 35%-40% protein level and you will have 30% of the bait as digestible. The lower protein level bait is better for the fish
In reply to Post #6
The protein of any boilie is not the be all and end all, but those who actually use very good fishmeals, milks and liquids generally produce much more attractive baits with naturally higher protein levels. These are the baits that generally survive the test of time and regularly produce big carp. If you cut all these things out and use your soy maize and bulkers then your baits tend to be much lower in protein. I know which one I want to use and what returns the most catch reports which in reality is the ultimate answer to how good a bait is
The protein of any boilie is not the be all and end all, but those who actually use very good fishmeals, milks and liquids generally produce much more attractive baits with naturally higher protein levels. These are the baits that generally survive the test of time and regularly produce big carp. If you cut all these things out and use your soy maize and bulkers then your baits tend to be much lower in protein. I know which one I want to use and what returns the most catch reports which in reality is the ultimate answer to how good a bait is
In reply to Post #7
And I have been told my whole life what carp can detect or what they can't detect and what they can absorb and what they can't and I'm not really sure I believe any of it. I fed carp the best diet I could afford for years and every year they grew really well and looked immaculate. I'm sure they prosper from better food hence why carp fed on particles struggle to gain weight
And I have been told my whole life what carp can detect or what they can't detect and what they can absorb and what they can't and I'm not really sure I believe any of it. I fed carp the best diet I could afford for years and every year they grew really well and looked immaculate. I'm sure they prosper from better food hence why carp fed on particles struggle to gain weight
In reply to Post #8
So true. Quality. You get what you pay for. Budget permitting. Sometimes less is more. Quality over quantity. You cannot take out what you have already fired in.
Koi owners and breeders, are like us anglers, very passionate about their hobby and they wouldn't feed anything that could do upset to koi costing hundreds or thousands of pounds.
The beauty of koi owners is that you can see and gauge how said food is being eaten / not eaten and the condition of your fish regularly.
Where as us anglers could go months or even years between captures.
So true. Quality. You get what you pay for. Budget permitting. Sometimes less is more. Quality over quantity. You cannot take out what you have already fired in.
Koi owners and breeders, are like us anglers, very passionate about their hobby and they wouldn't feed anything that could do upset to koi costing hundreds or thousands of pounds.
The beauty of koi owners is that you can see and gauge how said food is being eaten / not eaten and the condition of your fish regularly.
Where as us anglers could go months or even years between captures.
In reply to Post #9
I've got koi and they eat anything I drop in. Not sure I learn much from feeding them bait. Lots of 'facts' around koi are hearsay with little or no evidence it's possible worse than the hearsay around carp baits IMHO 
I've got koi and they eat anything I drop in. Not sure I learn much from feeding them bait. Lots of 'facts' around koi are hearsay with little or no evidence
it's possible worse than the hearsay around carp baits IMHO
In reply to Post #10
I think the point he's making is koi owners don't just drop any old food in......
I think the point he's making is koi owners don't just drop any old food in......
In reply to Post #11
I used to think that but after several years I believe 95% of koi are feed what the local shop sells. The koi forums are nearly all about filter setup and how many thousands you can spend on them not food. If it's in a nice bag or tub it must be good for them 😉
I've been adding a digestive aid (from the aquaculture industry) to my shop koi pellets, the fish now eat more and the water quality has improved..... Will the koi forums listen to me? Nope because that's not what they do in Japan
I used to think that but after several years I believe 95% of koi are feed what the local shop sells. The koi forums are nearly all about filter setup and how many thousands you can spend on them not food. If it's in a nice bag or tub it must be good for them 😉
I've been adding a digestive aid (from the aquaculture industry) to my shop koi pellets, the fish now eat more and the water quality has improved..... Will the koi forums listen to me? Nope because that's not what they do in Japan
In reply to Post #11
Yes that is one point I was trying to make.
The other point also was that some carp/koi can, or will show a preference to certain types or tastes of food fed, over other feeds.
Yes that is one point I was trying to make.
The other point also was that some carp/koi can, or will show a preference to certain types or tastes of food fed, over other feeds.
In reply to Post #12
Smurf you could always do a Geoff Kemp, and make big inroads into the koi industry with your 'unconventional findings on improving koi feeds with digestive aids'
Smurf you could always do a Geoff Kemp, and make big inroads into the koi industry with your 'unconventional findings on improving koi feeds with digestive aids'
In reply to Post #13
I completely agree that some carp prefer certain tastes. I find this one sentence completely contradictory to all we think we know about carp food attraction, the more I think about that the more my head hurts I think it even comes down to some carp have certain feeding styles. Maybe the two are linked. Maybe it's the difference between instinct and learnt behavior.
Didn't Duncan Kay pack in carp bait for Koi? Unless it comes from the land of the rising sun most Koi owners are not interested. Here is another example of Koi mythology. Buying a bigger variable speed pump and running it slowly will save a few watts of electricity over a smaller fixed speed pump, assuming both have the same output. A bigger motor and impeller require more energy to turn the larger mass, but not according to Koi folklore. Now having supposedly saved a few watts on a pump that cost twice as much they turn on there £800 3kw heater for the next 4-5 months
it's all bonkers to me 
I completely agree that some carp prefer certain tastes. I find this one sentence completely contradictory to all we think we know about carp food attraction, the more I think about that the more my head hurts
I think it even comes down to some carp have certain feeding styles. Maybe the two are linked. Maybe it's the difference between instinct and learnt behavior. Didn't Duncan Kay pack in carp bait for Koi? Unless it comes from the land of the rising sun most Koi owners are not interested. Here is another example of Koi mythology. Buying a bigger variable speed pump and running it slowly will save a few watts of electricity over a smaller fixed speed pump, assuming both have the same output. A bigger motor and impeller require more energy to turn the larger mass, but not according to Koi folklore. Now having supposedly saved a few watts on a pump that cost twice as much they turn on there £800 3kw heater for the next 4-5 months
it's all bonkers to me
In reply to Post #15
Maybe it's the difference between instinct and learnt behavior.
Pete that is a brilliant description of individual carp preferences.👍
Makes me look at things a bit more
Maybe it's the difference between instinct and learnt behavior.
Pete that is a brilliant description of individual carp preferences.👍
Makes me look at things a bit more
In reply to Post #16
Another one that makes my head hurt came from an old friend who has spent his life teaching fisheries managment. I am sure it's all linked. He said 'in any lake 1/3rd of the fish come out regularly, 1/3rd come out every year or two and a 1/3rd never get caught'. This is not true on commercial puddles but seems to apply to most waters
Another one that makes my head hurt came from an old friend who has spent his life teaching fisheries managment. I am sure it's all linked. He said 'in any lake 1/3rd of the fish come out regularly, 1/3rd come out every year or two and a 1/3rd never get caught'. This is not true on commercial puddles but seems to apply to most waters
In reply to Post #17
Those figures regards captures probably sound nuts to most, but having stocked my own place I have witnessed pretty close to it.
Original fish seen but never caught and fish from each of three stockings that just go missing.
One stocking of ten commons has only seen three or four of them ever banked over the five years they've been in there.
I'm sure that bait has to be the answer to banking these fish.
Those figures regards captures probably sound nuts to most, but having stocked my own place I have witnessed pretty close to it.
Original fish seen but never caught and fish from each of three stockings that just go missing.
One stocking of ten commons has only seen three or four of them ever banked over the five years they've been in there.
I'm sure that bait has to be the answer to banking these fish.
In reply to Post #18
Yes. A very realistic figure that. Even the same stocking year fish go like this. Over time they fall into that 1/3 regular captures, 1/3 odd captures and 1/3 seen but never caught. Nature woks in strange ways.
They all need to eat ‘something' to survive
Yes. A very realistic figure that. Even the same stocking year fish go like this. Over time they fall into that 1/3 regular captures, 1/3 odd captures and 1/3 seen but never caught. Nature woks in strange ways.
They all need to eat ‘something' to survive
In reply to Post #19
>They all need to eat ‘something' to survive
I am sure some fish just feed in a certain why i.e. sifting silt. The chance of getting them on a boilie is almost zero. We are way OT here but some fish do come out more on pop-ups and some more on bottom baits..again its not the bait as such its the way we present it that catches the fish that feed in different ways
>They all need to eat ‘something' to survive
I am sure some fish just feed in a certain why i.e. sifting silt. The chance of getting them on a boilie is almost zero. We are way OT here but some fish do come out more on pop-ups and some more on bottom baits..again its not the bait as such its the way we present it that catches the fish that feed in different ways
In reply to Post #20
I agree, it's the mechanics of their feeding that makes the tricky ones tricky imo.
I agree, it's the mechanics of their feeding that makes the tricky ones tricky imo.
In reply to Post #21
Definitely mate, although as we said the other week some are down to certain fish not being boilie eaters too
Definitely mate, although as we said the other week some are down to certain fish not being boilie eaters too
In reply to Post #20
Perhaps then if people are fishing for fish on the missing list, they should fish in unfancied swims , with unorthodox baits , and be prepared for extensive blanks. I'd also put money on the fact that some fish take advantage of seasonal naturals rather than eating boilies all year round. A fish that is a nomad as opposed to a fish with a known territory is. more likely to fall in to this category.
Perhaps then if people are fishing for fish on the missing list, they should fish in unfancied swims , with unorthodox baits , and be prepared for extensive blanks. I'd also put money on the fact that some fish take advantage of seasonal naturals rather than eating boilies all year round. A fish that is a nomad as opposed to a fish with a known territory is. more likely to fall in to this category.
In reply to Post #17
Those figures definitely ring true on the lesser stocked venues, there's no doubt about it.
Certainly in my experience different carp have different taste preferences even when we are just talking about boilie.
I remember Shaun Harrison (I think) talking about age being an important factor and I have experienced the same.
The rarest fish would have a combination of eating mainly naturals no matter the time of year including fry.
The ability to get away with it, and/or feed more cautiously than others.
But also the rare ones know exactly where they can and cannot be caught from.
The Burghfield common being a perfect example, 4 of the last 5 captures from areas that have either been out of bounds (previously) or relatively unfished,
Coincidence?
Those figures definitely ring true on the lesser stocked venues, there's no doubt about it.
Certainly in my experience different carp have different taste preferences even when we are just talking about boilie.
I remember Shaun Harrison (I think) talking about age being an important factor and I have experienced the same.
The rarest fish would have a combination of eating mainly naturals no matter the time of year including fry.
The ability to get away with it, and/or feed more cautiously than others.
But also the rare ones know exactly where they can and cannot be caught from.
The Burghfield common being a perfect example, 4 of the last 5 captures from areas that have either been out of bounds (previously) or relatively unfished,
Coincidence?
In reply to Post #24
I think this is my favourite subject in the whole of my fishing life. Absolutely fascinates me.
I'm probably going to be having my place electro fished this winter, it'll be interesting to see how some on the missing list are fairing.
If the cormorants keep going as they are maggots might be a viable bait before long which would be interesting.
I think this is my favourite subject in the whole of my fishing life. Absolutely fascinates me.
I'm probably going to be having my place electro fished this winter, it'll be interesting to see how some on the missing list are fairing.
If the cormorants keep going as they are maggots might be a viable bait before long which would be interesting.
In reply to Post #25
Agree Andy, it's interesting.
If there's one thing better than an abundance of food to get them growing big, it's a low or none existent rate of capture. It stands to reason that those fish that avoid capture are pretty much doing as well as they can possibly do in terms of growth/weight.
Be interesting to see how your rare'n's are doing
Agree Andy, it's interesting.
If there's one thing better than an abundance of food to get them growing big, it's a low or none existent rate of capture. It stands to reason that those fish that avoid capture are pretty much doing as well as they can possibly do in terms of growth/weight.
Be interesting to see how your rare'n's are doing
In reply to Post #26
I think that maybe they get hooked & lost in certain areas as well and we never know that they have slipped up but not brought to the bank.
I once watched a fish believed to be missing glide into an area with another regular visitor to the bank, it took two mouthfuls of silt from five feet out before laying up under a raft of weed.
I've thought about it many times over the years and without seeing it I would never have placed a bait there, it was a nothing piece of bottom and I never ever saw another fish feed on it.
Adam Penning's chapter in the Wraysbury Chronicles touches on this with regards the Pug.
Sorry to the OP it's gone way off thread!
I think that maybe they get hooked & lost in certain areas as well and we never know that they have slipped up but not brought to the bank.
I once watched a fish believed to be missing glide into an area with another regular visitor to the bank, it took two mouthfuls of silt from five feet out before laying up under a raft of weed.
I've thought about it many times over the years and without seeing it I would never have placed a bait there, it was a nothing piece of bottom and I never ever saw another fish feed on it.
Adam Penning's chapter in the Wraysbury Chronicles touches on this with regards the Pug.
Sorry to the OP it's gone way off thread!
In reply to Post #20
I have seen some big fish that only ever get caught over groundbait, and heavy beds of bait yet others in the same lake that avoid those same beds of bait, coming out only over boilies.
In my syndicate lake we have seen some original fish, yet no-one has banked them. Some originals are still uncaught, while others have been.
Bloodworm, mussels, snails all provide protein, good growing food, our boilies hopefully more so, but some carp no matter what, just won't eat them. Try to compete with natural food with particles, they don't necessarily provide great proteins that can be utilised, but are fish eating particles for energy (fats) rather than for growth?
Are There fish that avoid eating particles as well?
I have seen some big fish that only ever get caught over groundbait, and heavy beds of bait yet others in the same lake that avoid those same beds of bait, coming out only over boilies.
In my syndicate lake we have seen some original fish, yet no-one has banked them. Some originals are still uncaught, while others have been.
Bloodworm, mussels, snails all provide protein, good growing food, our boilies hopefully more so, but some carp no matter what, just won't eat them. Try to compete with natural food with particles, they don't necessarily provide great proteins that can be utilised, but are fish eating particles for energy (fats) rather than for growth?
Are There fish that avoid eating particles as well?
In reply to Post #28
I predict winkles could be the next must have super bait. I've patented it. So just send me the money. Lol.
I predict winkles could be the next must have super bait. I've patented it. So just send me the money. Lol.
In reply to Post #29
I tried Cockles once, caught a Pike
I tried Cockles once, caught a Pike
In reply to Post #28
My experience suggests that fish that were either spawned in the lake or stocked as small fish just do not have the same enthusiasm for fishmeal based boilies than those reared on pellets seem to.
In fact I don't think they are as turned on by proteins as much as they are by sugars, which I cannot explain at all.
My experience suggests that fish that were either spawned in the lake or stocked as small fish just do not have the same enthusiasm for fishmeal based boilies than those reared on pellets seem to.
In fact I don't think they are as turned on by proteins as much as they are by sugars, which I cannot explain at all.
In reply to Post #31
Tell that to all the fish in the 80's.......
Tell that to all the fish in the 80's.......
In reply to Post #28
I'm also absolutely convinced that some fish are way more predatory than most realise. And I'm not talking about eating fry, but eating silvers and perch of five inches or bigger.
I'm also absolutely convinced that some fish are way more predatory than most realise. And I'm not talking about eating fry, but eating silvers and perch of five inches or bigger.
In reply to Post #33
I've seen a typical roach scatter, when some jump out, some skim the surface and all going in different directions as if a pike has struck and watched a double figure common come out the water feet from the bank, in the winter.
It's a natural resource that will be exploited when the easier larders are at there least.
I've seen a typical roach scatter, when some jump out, some skim the surface and all going in different directions as if a pike has struck and watched a double figure common come out the water feet from the bank, in the winter.
It's a natural resource that will be exploited when the easier larders are at there least.
In reply to Post #33
Absolutely.
People don't believe how some carp are predators.
Freshly laid carp eggs,various fry, dead fish, daphnia, snails. Weed.
Absolutely.
People don't believe how some carp are predators.
Freshly laid carp eggs,various fry, dead fish, daphnia, snails. Weed.
In reply to Post #35
Lol weed? Predatory?
Lol weed? Predatory?
In reply to Post #31
How many years experience?
I can give you numbers of lakes that the fish respond to fishmeal even though they were spawned in the lake, where small fish were stocked, captured as fry in one lake and moved to another.
Taverham Mills, the fish were stocked from various sources, some Redmire fish, in the 1990's the fish loved fishmeal boilies, had a distinct preference over birdfoods, even when the boilies were fished over hemp.
Earith, original fish, fishmeal boilies scored heavily, particles rarely worked.
I honestly think that the 'fashion' for fishmeal switched off because the cost rose to bait manufacturers, as a result of the price rise, bait manufacturers had to switch to other ingredients like nut meals and the anglers were 'conned' into thinking fishmeals were no longer the best.
How many years experience?
I can give you numbers of lakes that the fish respond to fishmeal even though they were spawned in the lake, where small fish were stocked, captured as fry in one lake and moved to another.
Taverham Mills, the fish were stocked from various sources, some Redmire fish, in the 1990's the fish loved fishmeal boilies, had a distinct preference over birdfoods, even when the boilies were fished over hemp.
Earith, original fish, fishmeal boilies scored heavily, particles rarely worked.
I honestly think that the 'fashion' for fishmeal switched off because the cost rose to bait manufacturers, as a result of the price rise, bait manufacturers had to switch to other ingredients like nut meals and the anglers were 'conned' into thinking fishmeals were no longer the best.
In reply to Post #37
I have still never found anything that compares with fishmeal but I still say the ultimate blend contains Milks and bird foods to make them work
I have still never found anything that compares with fishmeal but I still say the ultimate blend contains Milks and bird foods to make them work
In reply to Post #37
I honestly think that the 'fashion' for fishmeal switched off because the cost rose to bait manufacturers, as a result of the price rise, bait manufacturers had to switch to other ingredients like nut meals and the anglers were 'conned' into thinking fishmeals were no longer the best.
Could be a lot of truth in that, pea protein meal!
It's any interesting one the protein content, what was once an obsession seems to have tailored off £ or different thinking?
Fishmeal man myself, not tried many nut baits but they certainly do work. The question has to be asked, what does a carp really want or should it be need? Ferrety who used to post on here wrote an interesting post once, lots of controversy. Carp love them, it's that simple, there's also a reason why!
Interesting?
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Matthew_Aremu2/publication/316595924/figure/tbl1/AS:613925817184292@1523382729787/Amino-acid-profiles-of-tiger-nut-g-100g-crude-protein.png
I honestly think that the 'fashion' for fishmeal switched off because the cost rose to bait manufacturers, as a result of the price rise, bait manufacturers had to switch to other ingredients like nut meals and the anglers were 'conned' into thinking fishmeals were no longer the best.
Could be a lot of truth in that, pea protein meal!
It's any interesting one the protein content, what was once an obsession seems to have tailored off £ or different thinking?
Fishmeal man myself, not tried many nut baits but they certainly do work. The question has to be asked, what does a carp really want or should it be need? Ferrety who used to post on here wrote an interesting post once, lots of controversy. Carp love them, it's that simple, there's also a reason why!
Interesting?
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Matthew_Aremu2/publication/316595924/figure/tbl1/AS:613925817184292@1523382729787/Amino-acid-profiles-of-tiger-nut-g-100g-crude-protein.png
In reply to Post #37
Too many years I'm afraid, but not that many waters but then I know them well. I have fished a couple of low stocked waters where accidental (floods) stocking have bought new fish into the lakes, fish fed on pellets. Even years later these fish come out on fishmeals more than other baits and the original fish seem to avoid capture or fall to particles. The offspring of the new fish behave like the originals.
These are only my experiences of course but I am convinced that in these waters these distinctions apply.
Every water is different of course and I fish other waters where I have not noticed these patterns at all.
Too many years I'm afraid, but not that many waters but then I know them well. I have fished a couple of low stocked waters where accidental (floods) stocking have bought new fish into the lakes, fish fed on pellets. Even years later these fish come out on fishmeals more than other baits and the original fish seem to avoid capture or fall to particles. The offspring of the new fish behave like the originals.
These are only my experiences of course but I am convinced that in these waters these distinctions apply.
Every water is different of course and I fish other waters where I have not noticed these patterns at all.
In reply to Post #33
Double Post
Double Post
In reply to Post #33
I was guested at Langly Park in the 90's probably December time when a guy spinning for pike with a six inch plug complete with two treble hooks hooked and landed the biggest carp in the lake fairly in the bottom lip!! I guess when naturals are scarce in winter everything including silvers are looked upon as food!
I was that dumbfounded I took a picture of plug in place before the chap unhooked it.
Michael
I was guested at Langly Park in the 90's probably December time when a guy spinning for pike with a six inch plug complete with two treble hooks hooked and landed the biggest carp in the lake fairly in the bottom lip!! I guess when naturals are scarce in winter everything including silvers are looked upon as food!
I was that dumbfounded I took a picture of plug in place before the chap unhooked it.
Michael
In reply to Post #42
I put some crucian carp fry in the tank with my fingerling carp and they all got eaten.
They was 25-30% the length of the carp.
I saw one carp with one half sticking out its mouth pushing the tail of the crucian against the wall, seemingly trying to force it down its mouth.
I put some crucian carp fry in the tank with my fingerling carp and they all got eaten.
They was 25-30% the length of the carp.
I saw one carp with one half sticking out its mouth pushing the tail of the crucian against the wall, seemingly trying to force it down its mouth.
In reply to Post #43
My carp cleared a lake of sticklebacks within a season! They love fry!
I still think that to catch a really hard to catch carp, you need either a very good bait or a lure (bright pop up etc)
My carp cleared a lake of sticklebacks within a season! They love fry!
I still think that to catch a really hard to catch carp, you need either a very good bait or a lure (bright pop up etc)
In reply to Post #44
I have seen the speewing up sticklebacks on the mat. They are obviously competent predators at times.
I have seen the speewing up sticklebacks on the mat. They are obviously competent predators at times.
In reply to Post #44
This obviously depends on how rare or pressured we are talking.
A good bait or a bright pop up is as conventional as it comes over a long period of time.
Some fish get to an obscene weight, but go uncaught because everyone fishes the same and loses confidence without catching anything on an unusual method within a couple of weeks.
Modern carp angling and the approach to, it is as uniform as it gets.
If you avoided eating anything over 10mm in size you would never get caught.
This obviously depends on how rare or pressured we are talking.
A good bait or a bright pop up is as conventional as it comes over a long period of time.
Some fish get to an obscene weight, but go uncaught because everyone fishes the same and loses confidence without catching anything on an unusual method within a couple of weeks.
Modern carp angling and the approach to, it is as uniform as it gets.
If you avoided eating anything over 10mm in size you would never get caught.
In reply to Post #46
People fish maggots
Still the fish don't get caught
I don't even think size is the factor all the time
The hardest carp I have ever fished for and caught came on an orange pop up and that was it's only capture for several years. We tried everything to catch that carp and it fell for an orange pop up! Why? Because it's got no hands and samples things with its mouth!! I do agree that those odd carp that always avoid capture definitely either eat fish or get away with our poor rigs or get lost during the fight.
People fish maggots
Still the fish don't get caught
I don't even think size is the factor all the time
The hardest carp I have ever fished for and caught came on an orange pop up and that was it's only capture for several years. We tried everything to catch that carp and it fell for an orange pop up! Why? Because it's got no hands and samples things with its mouth!! I do agree that those odd carp that always avoid capture definitely either eat fish or get away with our poor rigs or get lost during the fight.
In reply to Post #47
The size reference was just to point out how conventional 99% of the scenarios a fish that completely avoids capture, faces.
It's surprising zigs don't account for more of these.
Just as interesting though, are relatively friendly fish (once sometimes twice a year fish) that then go on the missing list and get seen but not caught.
That dumbfounds me.
The size reference was just to point out how conventional 99% of the scenarios a fish that completely avoids capture, faces.
It's surprising zigs don't account for more of these.
Just as interesting though, are relatively friendly fish (once sometimes twice a year fish) that then go on the missing list and get seen but not caught.
That dumbfounds me.
In reply to Post #47
There was a mirror carp in my local park lake that was only ever caught on sweetcorn over breadcrumb. Carp anglers saw it, and fished for it. It was usually caught by float anglers fishing for roach.
I personally saw it, it was always with two 8lb commons, one lean and long, one short and chubby. I fished for it, with boilies, where it regularly showed.
I caught both the commons, but not the big mirror. Eventually I fished sweetcorn over breadcrumb, and had it within two trips. The big mirror was the first to the bait, the commons did not even get a look-in.
There was a mirror carp in my local park lake that was only ever caught on sweetcorn over breadcrumb. Carp anglers saw it, and fished for it. It was usually caught by float anglers fishing for roach.
I personally saw it, it was always with two 8lb commons, one lean and long, one short and chubby. I fished for it, with boilies, where it regularly showed.
I caught both the commons, but not the big mirror. Eventually I fished sweetcorn over breadcrumb, and had it within two trips. The big mirror was the first to the bait, the commons did not even get a look-in.
In reply to Post #49
Certain fish just like certain things and feed in certain ways. Even if their carp mates or ‘bodyguards' don't.
Quote often unexplainable. But fascinating.
Love these odd Uns that tie us all in knots trying to catch them
Certain fish just like certain things and feed in certain ways. Even if their carp mates or ‘bodyguards' don't.
Quote often unexplainable. But fascinating.
Love these odd Uns that tie us all in knots trying to catch them
In reply to Post #50
I have a fat common that has not been out for over 3 years
I can hand feed the bugger from the boat most days
I have a fat common that has not been out for over 3 years
I can hand feed the bugger from the boat most days
In reply to Post #51
After watching how carp deal with rigs I'm amazed we catch anything!
Hutchy once said for every carp you catch you've been done by ten, once again the legend was bang on!
After watching how carp deal with rigs I'm amazed we catch anything!
Hutchy once said for every carp you catch you've been done by ten, once again the legend was bang on!
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