Im after your opinion whether you believe or not that if we all used less bait and/or baited up less we would all probably catch more / catch more consistently on heavily pressured waters?
Im under the opinion that so much bait is used by the majority of anglers that the fish dont need to feed very often and when they do they can eat their.full in a short time leaving less opportunity to be caught. All the uneaten baits then just lessen the next group of anglers chances.
Im under the opinion that so much bait is used by the majority of anglers that the fish dont need to feed very often and when they do they can eat their.full in a short time leaving less opportunity to be caught. All the uneaten baits then just lessen the next group of anglers chances.
In reply to Post #1
This is something you will find out once the lockdown is done
This is something you will find out once the lockdown is done
In reply to Post #1
Don't know, but as most carp waters are very overstocked there condition on some could suffer, we have shoved so many fish in so many holes its not natural ,
Don't know, but as most carp waters are very overstocked there condition on some could suffer, we have shoved so many fish in so many holes its not natural ,
In reply to Post #1
What about the impact on the environment and worlds resources too, 100,000's of thousand of tons going into our waters each year
Bit like boxing, styles make fights and i can relate this to fishing, everybody has their own tactics and ideas built up from their experiences. The BEST tactics will vary from water to water due to angling pressure, fish stocks, competition for food and natural food resources etc, etc.
You can either be calculated or a bait waster
For me when fishing a new venue you need to try and understand what the fish have been coming out on, who's catching them, where from and what tactics are they using, this can save you a lot of trial and error but if your a seasoned angler with a decent bait your never far from a capture. For me though you need to be aiming to catch more than everybody else and this will drive you to fish harder and harder for me
In regards to baits, some waters singles and little traps are most effective, some will want some bait and some you cannot put enough in. I think ultimately you need to ask yourself the question, do I want to catch a carp, do I want to catch a few carp, or all the carp where you intend to put some time in. In the latter fishing singles is not the tactic in my experiences, you will pick fish up and maybe the fish but your playing second place to somebody who has got them eating their bait
Fishing over the last say 10 or 15 years has changed massively, loads of anglers and loads of baits. In simple terms for me you either need something a bit special, different from the normal or a good quantity of a very good bait that they like
Saying that, I got told of one bait, one venue and a bloke was putting in up to 35kg hits of quality boilies and he was not catching the fish as such!
There a loads of waters about with uneaten bait too, be seen them rotting covered In whispery blanket weed, horrible stuff. Fish were alive and swimming before anglers came along with bait
Also look at patterns on day tickets like you mention or pressured waters, bloke comes along and puts a few kilos out and catches nothing, same again and again and again, and everybody is doing it, the fish will then have a feed, a few come out at once then it's back to the odd ones, I've seen this a lot of times too
What about the impact on the environment and worlds resources too, 100,000's of thousand of tons going into our waters each year
Bit like boxing, styles make fights and i can relate this to fishing, everybody has their own tactics and ideas built up from their experiences. The BEST tactics will vary from water to water due to angling pressure, fish stocks, competition for food and natural food resources etc, etc.
You can either be calculated or a bait waster
For me when fishing a new venue you need to try and understand what the fish have been coming out on, who's catching them, where from and what tactics are they using, this can save you a lot of trial and error but if your a seasoned angler with a decent bait your never far from a capture. For me though you need to be aiming to catch more than everybody else and this will drive you to fish harder and harder for me
In regards to baits, some waters singles and little traps are most effective, some will want some bait and some you cannot put enough in. I think ultimately you need to ask yourself the question, do I want to catch a carp, do I want to catch a few carp, or all the carp where you intend to put some time in. In the latter fishing singles is not the tactic in my experiences, you will pick fish up and maybe the fish but your playing second place to somebody who has got them eating their bait
Fishing over the last say 10 or 15 years has changed massively, loads of anglers and loads of baits. In simple terms for me you either need something a bit special, different from the normal or a good quantity of a very good bait that they like
Saying that, I got told of one bait, one venue and a bloke was putting in up to 35kg hits of quality boilies and he was not catching the fish as such!
There a loads of waters about with uneaten bait too, be seen them rotting covered In whispery blanket weed, horrible stuff. Fish were alive and swimming before anglers came along with bait
Also look at patterns on day tickets like you mention or pressured waters, bloke comes along and puts a few kilos out and catches nothing, same again and again and again, and everybody is doing it, the fish will then have a feed, a few come out at once then it's back to the odd ones, I've seen this a lot of times too
In reply to Post #1
I think your probs right. On busier waters anyway.
There is a time for heavy baiting and there is a time for light baiting. Unfortunately some anglers don't understand when the time is right for each scenario and go with the former as their standard baiting strategy.
Carp cannot become full as they have no stomachs but that doesn't mean there isn't periods where consumption of bait will reduce. As certain natural food sources appear throughout the yearly cycle the carp will eat less bait, and when you have 30 guys spodding out 10 kg every day like you get on some day tickets you just end up with rotting, sour spots. Once the spots are sour they can take weeks to recover imo.
Don't get me wrong, there is a time for filling it in, and all my biggest hits have come over loads of bait, but that should not be the go-to strategy like it seems to be for many.
I think your probs right. On busier waters anyway.
There is a time for heavy baiting and there is a time for light baiting. Unfortunately some anglers don't understand when the time is right for each scenario and go with the former as their standard baiting strategy.
Carp cannot become full as they have no stomachs but that doesn't mean there isn't periods where consumption of bait will reduce. As certain natural food sources appear throughout the yearly cycle the carp will eat less bait, and when you have 30 guys spodding out 10 kg every day like you get on some day tickets you just end up with rotting, sour spots. Once the spots are sour they can take weeks to recover imo.
Don't get me wrong, there is a time for filling it in, and all my biggest hits have come over loads of bait, but that should not be the go-to strategy like it seems to be for many.
In reply to Post #1
Id have thought it must promote weed growth, We feed plants bonemeal.
Years ago some of the lakes that I still fish, weed beds were more in segregated clumps. Now it seems there's weed all over the lake bed. Probably just global warming though.
Id have thought it must promote weed growth, We feed plants bonemeal.
Years ago some of the lakes that I still fish, weed beds were more in segregated clumps. Now it seems there's weed all over the lake bed. Probably just global warming though.
In reply to Post #1
I agree with you. It's a conversation I've had with my uncle a few times, he's an old school Colne Valley angler and he's convinced of the same.
It can be tested when doing lake exclusive trips, often in France. If everyone in your group goes easy on the bait then the catches tend to be better. Obviously it depends quite a bit on whats happened the week before. There will always be people that want to put more in than everyone else and then the spiral starts.
I agree with you. It's a conversation I've had with my uncle a few times, he's an old school Colne Valley angler and he's convinced of the same.
It can be tested when doing lake exclusive trips, often in France. If everyone in your group goes easy on the bait then the catches tend to be better. Obviously it depends quite a bit on whats happened the week before. There will always be people that want to put more in than everyone else and then the spiral starts.
In reply to Post #2
The moment this lockdown ends, lakes will be getting stoved in.
The moment this lockdown ends, lakes will be getting stoved in.
In reply to Post #8
Yep, they sure will... The results will depend on when they spawn methinks but there will surely be some big hits across the country.
Yep, they sure will... The results will depend on when they spawn methinks but there will surely be some big hits across the country.
Someone fills a spot but fails to catch, the next bloke does the same. You come along and unknown to you there's tons of food, all washed out and probably more attractive to anything in your bucket. How are you going to approach it?
Start by feeding light,if they come in there's enough there to keep them around so just too up with a light scattering of tourist after each fish.
If you happen to be fishing over an unbaited spot the same system usually works. Fish for a bite not a bucket load.
It's a general approach and there's always horses for courses but it makes sense. You will never get a sack full every time you fish and there's always people that catch more or less than you. Why be so competative? If you want to win every time then go match fishing.
Start by feeding light,if they come in there's enough there to keep them around so just too up with a light scattering of tourist after each fish.
If you happen to be fishing over an unbaited spot the same system usually works. Fish for a bite not a bucket load.
It's a general approach and there's always horses for courses but it makes sense. You will never get a sack full every time you fish and there's always people that catch more or less than you. Why be so competative? If you want to win every time then go match fishing.
In reply to Post #10
I agree mate.
It's about working the swim. If you fish for a bite you'll soon know when you should be filling it in.
I agree mate.
It's about working the swim. If you fish for a bite you'll soon know when you should be filling it in.
In reply to Post #11
Exactly right Yonny. There's an old saying in the match fishing world. "Those that don't understand it fill it in". It's true.
Exactly right Yonny. There's an old saying in the match fishing world. "Those that don't understand it fill it in". It's true.
In reply to Post #12
On an old match venue that I fish now and again the catch results have plummeted across the board since the matchmen stopped fishing it. There's probably still the same amount of bait going in but its big hits of boilies generally, rather than a little bit in each swim.
On an old match venue that I fish now and again the catch results have plummeted across the board since the matchmen stopped fishing it. There's probably still the same amount of bait going in but its big hits of boilies generally, rather than a little bit in each swim.
In reply to Post #12
experience plays a part though,if I'm sat on flyer known to have a good head of bream in the lake,without bream your not going to frame then at the all in there is 10 balls of groundbait laced with caster, pellet,corn and chopped worm in,because if them bream turn up in numbers you can guarantee if you try and put any bait in over their heads they will be gone. I dont think there is one rule fits all in bait application and Ive taken that with me from my match fishing days into carping.its about reading a swim,past experience,water craft and good slice of lady luck.
experience plays a part though,if I'm sat on flyer known to have a good head of bream in the lake,without bream your not going to frame then at the all in there is 10 balls of groundbait laced with caster, pellet,corn and chopped worm in,because if them bream turn up in numbers you can guarantee if you try and put any bait in over their heads they will be gone. I dont think there is one rule fits all in bait application and Ive taken that with me from my match fishing days into carping.its about reading a swim,past experience,water craft and good slice of lady luck.
In reply to Post #14
Experience, watercraft, weather, time of year, watching what others are doing, how the fish are reacting to the bait levels your putting in etc all play a part. First rule of match fishing is beat the guys either side. Or you won't frame. If you're considering those factors and others then you understand why, when filling it in
Experience, watercraft, weather, time of year, watching what others are doing, how the fish are reacting to the bait levels your putting in etc all play a part. First rule of match fishing is beat the guys either side. Or you won't frame. If you're considering those factors and others then you understand why, when filling it in
Lots of variables, some places don't see enough others to much, like a lot of things it's the better anglers who get it right more often then not.
There's definitely a good logic in it
less bait means more competition for food, means the fish are more likely to pick up your hookbait.
but then they guy on the next peg thinks 'i'll just put a bit extra in' and then the next guy, and the next and so on until you're back to everyone keeping the bait company profits high and the lake full of rotting boilies....
I've never done the whole bucketfull of boilies thing. I'll seek out what look like the likelier spots for a bite, watch the water, try different baits etc. maybe a pva bag or stringer but that's me.
maybe i'd have caught more with a skip full of bait but who knows?
less bait means more competition for food, means the fish are more likely to pick up your hookbait.
but then they guy on the next peg thinks 'i'll just put a bit extra in' and then the next guy, and the next and so on until you're back to everyone keeping the bait company profits high and the lake full of rotting boilies....
I've never done the whole bucketfull of boilies thing. I'll seek out what look like the likelier spots for a bite, watch the water, try different baits etc. maybe a pva bag or stringer but that's me.
maybe i'd have caught more with a skip full of bait but who knows?
In reply to Post #17
I agree thats its not a feasible suggestion as it pretty much impossible to implement, short of rules dictating bait limits which would also be impossible to uphold. It was more of a thought experiment. And something ive believed should be true for years. Ive regularly seen people spod for 2-3 hours straight then question why they didnt catch on their overnighter well there is about a million reasons scattered around your hookbaits as to why you didnt. And probably why the next guy won't either.
I agree thats its not a feasible suggestion as it pretty much impossible to implement, short of rules dictating bait limits which would also be impossible to uphold. It was more of a thought experiment. And something ive believed should be true for years. Ive regularly seen people spod for 2-3 hours straight then question why they didnt catch on their overnighter well there is about a million reasons scattered around your hookbaits as to why you didnt. And probably why the next guy won't either.
its why a decent fresh bait should be used, if its not eaten by the fish it will pop up and the birds can have it..
In reply to Post #18
It would be an interesting one Dave, say they limited anglers to say 1kg of bait per day?
I reckon most people would have a better chance, show how good certain baits are and stop all these idiots
Spodding the granny art of it with crap bait polluting the water
Wouldn't grow the owners fish on so quick though unless it was a rich water
It would be an interesting one Dave, say they limited anglers to say 1kg of bait per day?
I reckon most people would have a better chance, show how good certain baits are and stop all these idiots
Spodding the granny art of it with crap bait polluting the water
Wouldn't grow the owners fish on so quick though unless it was a rich water
Many years ago when French fishing really exploded in popularity I was talking to a French lake owner out there and as in a hell of a lot of French lakes the law is you have to do a drain down every so often
he did one and had to remove a complete truck load of cheap rock hard boilies that had littered the bottom of the lake admittedly the cheap and nasty baits are not so available now thank god
on the plus side with the better quality baits now growth rates and general well being of fish has improved
to prove that point in the very early days I was fishing Cut Mill pond Farnham and was lucky enough to be in the inner circle at the time fishing with Fred Wiltons bait and my catches were at that time nothing short of amazing
this was pre hair days of course when people like lovely Vic Gillings was fishing with black eyed peas anyway the fish had lots of sores on the bodies after showing photos to Fred he said maybe inadequate nutrition can make the infection worse so he did some research and gave me a bag of something to add to the mix at 2 ozs a time
2 things that could of course be coincidence and cant be proved one way or the other happened
within a week or so of baiting and fishing with the new added ingredient my catch rate went up and the fish sores started to heal !! about 6 weeks or so later there were no fish with sores being caught and you could see were some of the old sores had been sort of a grey mark
he did one and had to remove a complete truck load of cheap rock hard boilies that had littered the bottom of the lake admittedly the cheap and nasty baits are not so available now thank god
on the plus side with the better quality baits now growth rates and general well being of fish has improved
to prove that point in the very early days I was fishing Cut Mill pond Farnham and was lucky enough to be in the inner circle at the time fishing with Fred Wiltons bait and my catches were at that time nothing short of amazing
this was pre hair days of course when people like lovely Vic Gillings was fishing with black eyed peas anyway the fish had lots of sores on the bodies after showing photos to Fred he said maybe inadequate nutrition can make the infection worse so he did some research and gave me a bag of something to add to the mix at 2 ozs a time
2 things that could of course be coincidence and cant be proved one way or the other happened
within a week or so of baiting and fishing with the new added ingredient my catch rate went up and the fish sores started to heal !! about 6 weeks or so later there were no fish with sores being caught and you could see were some of the old sores had been sort of a grey mark
In reply to Post #20
I have seen sensible limits imposed on a couple of smallish lakes with limited stock but they probably are the exception.
I have seen sensible limits imposed on a couple of smallish lakes with limited stock but they probably are the exception.
In reply to Post #1
Hold my hands up I've not read the whole thread but one thing is for sure, if we used less bait there wouldn't be so many problems with weed on so many waters.
Hold my hands up I've not read the whole thread but one thing is for sure, if we used less bait there wouldn't be so many problems with weed on so many waters.
Absolutely agree that far too much bait goes in alot of waters and can kill the fishing for us.
I fished a lake in france a couple of years ago and as everyone does when they go to france most of us took a fair bit of bait/boilies.
Most of us went through 10-20kg each and had a a couple of fish each (it wasnt an easy water). One guy who came with us literally just brought a few tubs of pop ups, no loose feed at all. He had 4 or 5 fish just fishing singles.
Deffo a time and a place to put in the bait but its not always required to have a good hit of fish! Totally depends on the water and fish stocks
I fished a lake in france a couple of years ago and as everyone does when they go to france most of us took a fair bit of bait/boilies.
Most of us went through 10-20kg each and had a a couple of fish each (it wasnt an easy water). One guy who came with us literally just brought a few tubs of pop ups, no loose feed at all. He had 4 or 5 fish just fishing singles.
Deffo a time and a place to put in the bait but its not always required to have a good hit of fish! Totally depends on the water and fish stocks
In reply to Post #1
On some waters catches could well improve, although...
Years ago when I joined Nazeing Meads I started on Brackens; one of the rules on Brackens was no bait to be introduced unless by PVA, so only mesh or stringers. The regulars at the time were only fishing singles or a small bag or stringer, so I decided to go opposite and fish massive stringers, and cast a number in before fishing. 30 casts with 30 boilie stringers was more bait than most were fishing. In that first year I cleaned up, plenty of fish.
I think almost everyone has said that most anglers get to a swim, pile it in, then cast onto it, sit, wait, blank and go home. The fish can pick and choose what they want, they don't settle, there is plenty around.
I have also seen halibut pellets put in in so large a quantity they soured the lakebed. Fish wouldn't come into the area for ages. The pellets (or the oil in them) killed the weed in the spot, and didn't breakdown completely for months.
Sometimes though, especially with small bait items, (particles usually, but mini boilies can work) unless you put enough in you don't get a degree of pre-occupation.
On heavily pressured waters, I do think work your way into the session, don't pile it in, you can always add more gradually but you can't take it out.
On some waters catches could well improve, although...
Years ago when I joined Nazeing Meads I started on Brackens; one of the rules on Brackens was no bait to be introduced unless by PVA, so only mesh or stringers. The regulars at the time were only fishing singles or a small bag or stringer, so I decided to go opposite and fish massive stringers, and cast a number in before fishing. 30 casts with 30 boilie stringers was more bait than most were fishing. In that first year I cleaned up, plenty of fish.
I think almost everyone has said that most anglers get to a swim, pile it in, then cast onto it, sit, wait, blank and go home. The fish can pick and choose what they want, they don't settle, there is plenty around.
I have also seen halibut pellets put in in so large a quantity they soured the lakebed. Fish wouldn't come into the area for ages. The pellets (or the oil in them) killed the weed in the spot, and didn't breakdown completely for months.
Sometimes though, especially with small bait items, (particles usually, but mini boilies can work) unless you put enough in you don't get a degree of pre-occupation.
On heavily pressured waters, I do think work your way into the session, don't pile it in, you can always add more gradually but you can't take it out.
In reply to Post #25
I've just listened to the latest DNA baits podcast where they interview 'Roger Bacon' he talks about using 45k (yes forty five kilo) of bait in a session 😮. That really made me stop and think about what it must be like to use that much bait !
I've just listened to the latest DNA baits podcast where they interview 'Roger Bacon' he talks about using 45k (yes forty five kilo) of bait in a session 😮. That really made me stop and think about what it must be like to use that much bait !
In reply to Post #26
You should read Jim Shelley's books!
One example, everyone was fishing for Two Tone using singles etc, 2nd session he rocks up piles in 45k of pigeon mix and has it 2nd take!
You should read Jim Shelley's books!
One example, everyone was fishing for Two Tone using singles etc, 2nd session he rocks up piles in 45k of pigeon mix and has it 2nd take!
In reply to Post #27
That's his style
I have often sat back and analysed it and when you think about it he probably putting a few years worth of bait in compared to most other anglers in a matter of weeks and months, fishing it hard and hammering them out
Most will be doing their routines, putting a few KG in and sitting it out and catching a few fish over a few years
There's more to it than meets the eye for me, think about it...
That's his style
I have often sat back and analysed it and when you think about it he probably putting a few years worth of bait in compared to most other anglers in a matter of weeks and months, fishing it hard and hammering them out
Most will be doing their routines, putting a few KG in and sitting it out and catching a few fish over a few years
There's more to it than meets the eye for me, think about it...
In reply to Post #27
I take it he used a boat to put that out ? Surely be didn't spod 45k of pidgeon mix 💪💪
I take it he used a boat to put that out ? Surely be didn't spod 45k of pidgeon mix 💪💪
In reply to Post #29
Lol, reminds me when I was young, brave & stupid of attempting to do just that in a kids dingy, no life jacket, paddle and 2 dustbin sacks full of conditioner. It wasn't far from the bank but was over 15ft depth, I manhandled the first sack onto the edge of the dingy and it made the side cave so water was entering quite rapidly, when it released over the side it almost took me with it! Had to do it all over again with the second sack, all the while my mate was crying with laughter. Never done it again like that, scared the crap out of me.
Lol, reminds me when I was young, brave & stupid of attempting to do just that in a kids dingy, no life jacket, paddle and 2 dustbin sacks full of conditioner. It wasn't far from the bank but was over 15ft depth, I manhandled the first sack onto the edge of the dingy and it made the side cave so water was entering quite rapidly, when it released over the side it almost took me with it! Had to do it all over again with the second sack, all the while my mate was crying with laughter. Never done it again like that, scared the crap out of me.
In reply to Post #29
Apparently spodded
In reply to Post #30
Apparently spodded
In reply to Post #30
In reply to Post #21
Sound very interesting, care to share Old Geezer in the name of fish welfare?
Sound very interesting, care to share Old Geezer in the name of fish welfare?
In reply to Post #32
sorry mate its a very long time ago I dont know think it was some vitamin they were short of ? cant even remember all the ingredients lol
Lactalbumin , Casein ,egg Albumin are 3
sorry mate its a very long time ago I dont know think it was some vitamin they were short of ? cant even remember all the ingredients lol
Lactalbumin , Casein ,egg Albumin are 3
In reply to Post #33
Fair enough mate, catching the fish and seeing an improvement in their condition and welfare must have been a great feeling.
Fair enough mate, catching the fish and seeing an improvement in their condition and welfare must have been a great feeling.
In reply to Post #21
Vic Gillings, that's a name from the past! I used to love his articles in David Hall's coarse Angling magazine, he had such a self-deprecating sense of humour.
Vic Gillings, that's a name from the past! I used to love his articles in David Hall's coarse Angling magazine, he had such a self-deprecating sense of humour.
In reply to Post #35
he was a lovely bloke we used to laugh and yap most of the night they were great fun filled days and nights
he was a lovely bloke we used to laugh and yap most of the night they were great fun filled days and nights
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