Has anyone on here gone to a tackle company with a product development idea... Any insight into how you went about this and how companies worked with you regarding NDA etc...
Thanks in advance
D
Thanks in advance
D
In reply to Post #1
I emailed JAG an idea and got sent a set of the safeliners for free.They said it was a great idea but not something that could be done
I emailed JAG an idea and got sent a set of the safeliners for free.They said it was a great idea but not something that could be done
In reply to Post #1
It's near impossible if I'm honest, or at least very expensive.
Firstly there aren't many new patentable products that haven't existed in some form or another, so protection is very difficult. You then have the thieves and the Far East that would be all over it within weeks if there was a pound note in it.
My opinion would be to get a really good working prototype sorted, test it and plan to side hustle it yourself. Margins are murder especially retail, so if you can personally make bait / permit money then it may be the best route. Launching it yourself will also give you a bit of cult value and if successful then I'm sure companies would approach you to do the sanctioned version.
All of the products myself and friends have designed have been copied and that is part of life, the only one that really irritated us was the pop-impress that was not only copied but the offender wrote a three page article on its development - when a year before we sold him one at launch.
Look at the people that have been around a while like MPS they get ripped off by everyone, but there will always be a core of people that actually want the original and that accept that true innovation will only happen if you support it.
The other option maybe a Gardner type company who used to take on products within thier umbrella.
Good luck, and you'd be amazed the power of things like this forum and social media - if it's good you'll get a period or time to build up reputation and quality and be ‘the first'.
Good luck
It's near impossible if I'm honest, or at least very expensive.
Firstly there aren't many new patentable products that haven't existed in some form or another, so protection is very difficult. You then have the thieves and the Far East that would be all over it within weeks if there was a pound note in it.
My opinion would be to get a really good working prototype sorted, test it and plan to side hustle it yourself. Margins are murder especially retail, so if you can personally make bait / permit money then it may be the best route. Launching it yourself will also give you a bit of cult value and if successful then I'm sure companies would approach you to do the sanctioned version.
All of the products myself and friends have designed have been copied and that is part of life, the only one that really irritated us was the pop-impress that was not only copied but the offender wrote a three page article on its development - when a year before we sold him one at launch.
Look at the people that have been around a while like MPS they get ripped off by everyone, but there will always be a core of people that actually want the original and that accept that true innovation will only happen if you support it.
The other option maybe a Gardner type company who used to take on products within thier umbrella.
Good luck, and you'd be amazed the power of things like this forum and social media - if it's good you'll get a period or time to build up reputation and quality and be ‘the first'.
Good luck
In reply to Post #1
OMC seems to take on new ideas whether they are rubbish or not ...
But
I think Korda could be worth a shout
I believer Jason Hayward is doing something similar with them
OMC seems to take on new ideas whether they are rubbish or not ...
But
I think Korda could be worth a shout
I believer Jason Hayward is doing something similar with them
A guy I knew years ago went to Nash with a idea and was told it would work
Months later said product was launched by Nash
Don't trust them
Months later said product was launched by Nash
Don't trust them
In reply to Post #5
Yes i was going to say be very careful.
Yes i was going to say be very careful.
In reply to Post #5
I remember there was a lad who used to make smart little chod rig holders you clipped on your eyes that kept the curve in the chod.
Then Trakker released the same identical thing just not made out of kinder egg casing - Cash (on that old forum) got hammered because we'd all bought some off the forum member.
Anyways, think the lad got a few quid from Trakker and they weren't on the shelves for very long so maybe who you go to maybe fair with you too.
I remember there was a lad who used to make smart little chod rig holders you clipped on your eyes that kept the curve in the chod.
Then Trakker released the same identical thing just not made out of kinder egg casing - Cash (on that old forum) got hammered because we'd all bought some off the forum member.
Anyways, think the lad got a few quid from Trakker and they weren't on the shelves for very long so maybe who you go to maybe fair with you too.
In reply to Post #5
Sounds familiar.
Sounds familiar.
In reply to Post #7
marketed by every company now, i remember the cemex versions, black kinder egg bodied things and huge swivel clips etc
marketed by every company now, i remember the cemex versions, black kinder egg bodied things and huge swivel clips etc
I think they dont really give a toss
MANY MANY years ago when bedchairs did not go anything like flat I emailed all the tackle big boys
and said its only about 1 in a hundred that actually drags the freeking bedchair out of the bivvy to use as a chair ? and we all sleep at home on a flat bed ? why the F**k do you think we want to try and sleep propped up when we go fishing ?
do away with the wheel so the bed can go FLAT and fit a elongated hinge`s ? we can all use a big pillow like we do at home if we want too
and as we sweat our gonads off in the summer fit a rear mesh panel at the back for thru flow of air ?
well
IT TOOK about 10 years for that to happen !!
and now with the advent of flexible roll up solar panels its easily possible to have lightweight roll up solar panels that could velcro on the roof of bivvies that could power fans chargers etc
on my Caravan I have a set of blocks that clip on the legs for uneven ground
I emailed
all of them said for Anglers fishing uneven sloping banks we need a set of clip on blocks for the bechairs when they dont have enough adjustment to get level I could go on and on but pointless really
MANY MANY years ago when bedchairs did not go anything like flat I emailed all the tackle big boys
and said its only about 1 in a hundred that actually drags the freeking bedchair out of the bivvy to use as a chair ? and we all sleep at home on a flat bed ? why the F**k do you think we want to try and sleep propped up when we go fishing ?
do away with the wheel so the bed can go FLAT and fit a elongated hinge`s ? we can all use a big pillow like we do at home if we want too
and as we sweat our gonads off in the summer fit a rear mesh panel at the back for thru flow of air ?
well
IT TOOK about 10 years for that to happen !!
and now with the advent of flexible roll up solar panels its easily possible to have lightweight roll up solar panels that could velcro on the roof of bivvies that could power fans chargers etc
on my Caravan I have a set of blocks that clip on the legs for uneven ground
I emailed
all of them said for Anglers fishing uneven sloping banks we need a set of clip on blocks for the bechairs when they dont have enough adjustment to get level I could go on and on but pointless really
In reply to Post #7
Thanks for the advice all
I still use the hook ups sold on cemex...much better than the trakker one!
Thanks for the advice all
I still use the hook ups sold on cemex...much better than the trakker one!
In reply to Post #1
Same as Phil - I have a friend who took an idea to a company & was turned down & told it was rubbish, only to witness them bring it out the following year so you deffo need to be careful.
Years ago I heard of people writing down the idea with pictures & context & then posting it to themselves & keeping the letter unopened with a date postage mark to prove that they had the idea before they took it to a company. Not sure on the legalities around that now & I assume an email trail would be adequate as they are often used in court cases for criminal proceedings.
Deffo room for new ideas in carp fishing - far too much regurgitated rubbish out there - ideas, designs that aren't challenged because "they've always been that way".
Same as Phil - I have a friend who took an idea to a company & was turned down & told it was rubbish, only to witness them bring it out the following year so you deffo need to be careful.
Years ago I heard of people writing down the idea with pictures & context & then posting it to themselves & keeping the letter unopened with a date postage mark to prove that they had the idea before they took it to a company. Not sure on the legalities around that now & I assume an email trail would be adequate as they are often used in court cases for criminal proceedings.
Deffo room for new ideas in carp fishing - far too much regurgitated rubbish out there - ideas, designs that aren't challenged because "they've always been that way".
In reply to Post #1
Like others I wouldn't trust any of the big boys . . .the market is saturated and if your idea is cost effective to produce and genuinely innovative then they're most likely going to nick it or at best change / polish it 'just enough' to make it effectively their own IPR. That and the fact that they will also have much more £ in the bank and therefore more lawyers which means you will be screwed with little or no recompense . . . def try to develop / patent it independently first then perhaps go to market (much easier these days) and / or then start the conversation with Damo/whoever . .
Like others I wouldn't trust any of the big boys . . .the market is saturated and if your idea is cost effective to produce and genuinely innovative then they're most likely going to nick it or at best change / polish it 'just enough' to make it effectively their own IPR. That and the fact that they will also have much more £ in the bank and therefore more lawyers which means you will be screwed with little or no recompense . . . def try to develop / patent it independently first then perhaps go to market (much easier these days) and / or then start the conversation with Damo/whoever . .
Quite a few years ago I came up with an idea for a tackle item which was not in circulation at the time. Like most of these ideas it stemmed from using an established object to do something which it wasn't designed to do but did it very well indeed.
Well anyway I ummed and ahhhed too long and a tackle company ( Fox I think) released something similar along the same lines. However, my idea was commercially better as it was a modular design, and you could buy upgrades and options after buying the initial item to customise it and enhance ease of use. Most really good products from a manufacturing and sales point is when additional modules make as much as the initial item ( this was in the era of the Nokia 6110 phone when everyone who had one then bought customised cases for them plus accessories and every phone shop, corner shop, and market stall sold them). A lost opportunity maybe by being too cautious.
Well anyway I ummed and ahhhed too long and a tackle company ( Fox I think) released something similar along the same lines. However, my idea was commercially better as it was a modular design, and you could buy upgrades and options after buying the initial item to customise it and enhance ease of use. Most really good products from a manufacturing and sales point is when additional modules make as much as the initial item ( this was in the era of the Nokia 6110 phone when everyone who had one then bought customised cases for them plus accessories and every phone shop, corner shop, and market stall sold them). A lost opportunity maybe by being too cautious.
Personally I'd go to Korda. I genuinely don't think they'd turn you over. They obviously came to some agreement with Frank Warwick for the ezi stick and Carl for the Elstow bobbins, plus probably other ones that I don't know about.
I would love to see all these inventions people here are saying they came up with. In my experience, everytime someone has told me that had a great new idea that would revolutionise the world, its been a load of old toilet. But I'd love to be proved wrong. Come on, don't be shy, share your inventions
In reply to Post #16
Problem is, even with the passage of time (nearly 30 years) the professional company version sold but not in any huge quantities that I'm aware of, and is not as well thought through as mine. This leads to a reticence to reveal as I suppose deep at heart you think....one day Rodder's, maybe, just maybe 
Edit: No, my name is not BlanketKnob 😂😂😂😂😂
Problem is, even with the passage of time (nearly 30 years) the professional company version sold but not in any huge quantities that I'm aware of, and is not as well thought through as mine. This leads to a reticence to reveal as I suppose deep at heart you think....one day Rodder's, maybe, just maybe
Edit: No, my name is not BlanketKnob 😂😂😂😂😂
I had this idea about tackle companies making stuff that was fit for purpose, stuff that didnt fall apart after a few months or needed a MK2 or MK3 after the punters had field tested the ***** that came out the first container from China.
They all laughed in my face.
Good luck 👍
They all laughed in my face.
Good luck 👍
In reply to Post #16
I would love to see all these inventions people here are saying they came up with.
ok LONG STORY!
this is about WAY WAY back in the day when the norm was to sack fish in open weave GPO hessian sacks ! (( see hessian gpo sack in picture below ))
at that time I was driving a Tanker mainly delivering heating oil I had a delivery to a giant freezer store and noticed the forklift drivers going in and out had these brilliant one piece padded suits on
when I finished I had to get my ticket signed and stamped at the office I got chatting saying thats just what I could do with fishing all night the big boss was listening and said come in my office he said I can help you the company that makes us these suits is owned by a mate of mine I will ring him now they are not far in wandsworth
well he did and said I could come and see him as it was on my way back I went there and then got on like a house on fire he said I can make em any way you like ! I said well how about instead of one piece could you do a 2 piece so if it got warm could just wear the jacket
no problem do you want it in the dark blue or I have a roll or 2 of green but cant change the red lining though it was all cash no bills so he was happy
I had 2 made one for my fishing partner Brian Mckeown taken too soon
later my pal Malcolm Winkworth (RIP) and his mate Clive Dietrich asked if I could get them some you may have seen them wearing them in their video`s ? pic below is the only one I have of me wearing the jacket
ANYWAY !!
About that time I was having some mega captures and driving home with these wet GPO sacks were so frigging heavy
I suddenly thought wait a min why not get some of this heavy duty industrial nylon from my friendly boss and make up some sacks chatted my idea to Brian and he said great idea no problem I have some really sharp hole punches at work and so the first lightweight heavy duty carp sacks were born I/we did not give a flying fook about making any money we were happy to just share my ideas
free high res photos
I would love to see all these inventions people here are saying they came up with.
ok LONG STORY!
this is about WAY WAY back in the day when the norm was to sack fish in open weave GPO hessian sacks ! (( see hessian gpo sack in picture below ))
at that time I was driving a Tanker mainly delivering heating oil I had a delivery to a giant freezer store and noticed the forklift drivers going in and out had these brilliant one piece padded suits on
when I finished I had to get my ticket signed and stamped at the office I got chatting saying thats just what I could do with fishing all night the big boss was listening and said come in my office he said I can help you the company that makes us these suits is owned by a mate of mine I will ring him now they are not far in wandsworth
well he did and said I could come and see him as it was on my way back I went there and then got on like a house on fire he said I can make em any way you like ! I said well how about instead of one piece could you do a 2 piece so if it got warm could just wear the jacket
no problem do you want it in the dark blue or I have a roll or 2 of green but cant change the red lining though it was all cash no bills so he was happy
I had 2 made one for my fishing partner Brian Mckeown taken too soon
later my pal Malcolm Winkworth (RIP) and his mate Clive Dietrich asked if I could get them some you may have seen them wearing them in their video`s ? pic below is the only one I have of me wearing the jacket
ANYWAY !!
About that time I was having some mega captures and driving home with these wet GPO sacks were so frigging heavy
I suddenly thought wait a min why not get some of this heavy duty industrial nylon from my friendly boss and make up some sacks chatted my idea to Brian and he said great idea no problem I have some really sharp hole punches at work and so the first lightweight heavy duty carp sacks were born I/we did not give a flying fook about making any money we were happy to just share my ideas
free high res photos
In reply to Post #19
Today's generation of anglers don't no how lucky they are. Can just walk into a tacklshop and buy everything they need. Though I don't go as far back as you Gerry.
Even when I started carp fishing in the mid to late 80s. There was still stuff you had to make yourself or adapt for your use.
No wonder you could aford to get stuff made bespoke driving them fuel trucks Gerry...
Today's generation of anglers don't no how lucky they are. Can just walk into a tacklshop and buy everything they need. Though I don't go as far back as you Gerry.
Even when I started carp fishing in the mid to late 80s. There was still stuff you had to make yourself or adapt for your use.No wonder you could aford to get stuff made bespoke driving them fuel trucks Gerry...
In reply to Post #8
Yep I suggested something to someone who worked for one of the big companies. All I asked for was one freebie if they went with it.
Sure enough it has become one of the most popular pieces of tackle in recent years and no I didn't get my freebie. They must have made a small fortune from it.
Sure enough it has become one of the most popular pieces of tackle in recent years and no I didn't get my freebie. They must have made a small fortune from it.
In reply to Post #22
Those Nash paths are excellent though Andy.
Those Nash paths are excellent though Andy.
In reply to Post #19
Great pics them mate 👍
Great pics them mate 👍
In reply to Post #23
In reply to Post #19
Efgeeco box there mate?
Efgeeco box there mate?
In reply to Post #22
The Magic Twig?
The Magic Twig?
In reply to Post #15
funnily enough i've have emailed Korda today before seeing this thread regarding not a tackle item but the whole process of reducing plastics in the POS arena, this came from getting a Tackle safe and being shocked at the amount of clear plastic packets i had piled up to throw away.
They came back to me straight away with a no nonsense honest answer which i thought was really good to be honest. They acknowledge the idea i put to them and indicated it would be good to explore even if it didn't go anywhere. Generally with the response and email exchange i would be happy to say if it was a goer i believe they would acknowledge the person who came up with the idea.
They did it with the Stows so would say that if it is something that a tackle company had appetite for and recognised the value they could take it on and run with it, add to the you have email proof that the idea was put to them by yourself and any company would struggle to defend IP rights.
funnily enough i've have emailed Korda today before seeing this thread regarding not a tackle item but the whole process of reducing plastics in the POS arena, this came from getting a Tackle safe and being shocked at the amount of clear plastic packets i had piled up to throw away.
They came back to me straight away with a no nonsense honest answer which i thought was really good to be honest. They acknowledge the idea i put to them and indicated it would be good to explore even if it didn't go anywhere. Generally with the response and email exchange i would be happy to say if it was a goer i believe they would acknowledge the person who came up with the idea.
They did it with the Stows so would say that if it is something that a tackle company had appetite for and recognised the value they could take it on and run with it, add to the you have email proof that the idea was put to them by yourself and any company would struggle to defend IP rights.
In reply to Post #23
In reply to Post #28
The packaging that small items of tackle are encased in is ridiculous.
The packaging that small items of tackle are encased in is ridiculous.
In reply to Post #28
Might be talking absolute tosh but wasn't DF on Elstow for some time (think he still rates it as his fav lake?) so at a guess probably had a camaraderie / respect for the original inventor and presumably wouldn't want to rock the boat in terms of his syndicate status by blatantly nicking the idea and taking it to market whilst continuing to fish the lake . . . . . .
Re products from memory you only have to change them by 20% (and this can include a colour change / non critical design detail) for the product to be technically different . .
Might be talking absolute tosh but wasn't DF on Elstow for some time (think he still rates it as his fav lake?) so at a guess probably had a camaraderie / respect for the original inventor and presumably wouldn't want to rock the boat in terms of his syndicate status by blatantly nicking the idea and taking it to market whilst continuing to fish the lake . . . . . .
Re products from memory you only have to change them by 20% (and this can include a colour change / non critical design detail) for the product to be technically different . .
In reply to Post #26
Efgeeco box there mate?
yes and a Lafuma bed with a homemade mattress
AJ Bull modified bivvy over a Nu Brolly that I modded shortened the stub where the brolly spokes just finished so no banging your head on anything made it centre pole less then crossed bamboo canes on the end of all the ribs supported every thing
Efgeeco box there mate?
yes and a Lafuma bed with a homemade mattress
AJ Bull modified bivvy over a Nu Brolly that I modded shortened the stub where the brolly spokes just finished so no banging your head on anything made it centre pole less then crossed bamboo canes on the end of all the ribs supported every thing
In reply to Post #23
Right company, wrong product.
Right company, wrong product.
In reply to Post #33
Thing with things like this, you certainly weren't the first person to come up with a baiting pole (what I assume you are talking about) most of us made one from an old whip or pole before.
Unless your design you drew up was like for like identical? There's a massive difference between having an idea for a product, and having a design.
Thing with things like this, you certainly weren't the first person to come up with a baiting pole (what I assume you are talking about) most of us made one from an old whip or pole before.
Unless your design you drew up was like for like identical? There's a massive difference between having an idea for a product, and having a design.
In reply to Post #33
Beanie butt bag?
Beanie butt bag?
In reply to Post #34
Of course I didn't invent the baiting pole, I'm sure that other people were doing the same in the late 70's.I did however suggest to them that they already produced something (prodding stick) that could be adapted to produce a better, more user friendly baiting pole. I'd definitely never seen anyone else who had turned their baiting spoon into a catamaran before (I grew up around boats). Anyway the very first video of Alan Blair using a baiting pole, he was using exactly what I'd suggested.
Of course I didn't invent the baiting pole, I'm sure that other people were doing the same in the late 70's.I did however suggest to them that they already produced something (prodding stick) that could be adapted to produce a better, more user friendly baiting pole. I'd definitely never seen anyone else who had turned their baiting spoon into a catamaran before (I grew up around boats). Anyway the very first video of Alan Blair using a baiting pole, he was using exactly what I'd suggested.
In reply to Post #36
Fecking things, id rather see a baitboat tbh.
Fecking things, id rather see a baitboat tbh.
In reply to Post #1
file a patent before you do mate, i certainly wouldn't trust a tackle company
file a patent before you do mate, i certainly wouldn't trust a tackle company
Even if you had a solid patent it would take 2 years to get to court.
I'd still say hobby / side hustle it as a single product commission would be peanuts. If you're successful then someone will ask to ‘buy' the rights or it will get stolen regardless.
On a slight tangent but a demonstration of margins there is a JRC ez-winder bivvy at Total Tackle was £700 now £200. So you'd assume that they (tt) want around 70% margin so they are buying at a little over £125. JRC must have purchased landed in the UK for under £100. They will have spent on development, testing (I know) staff, advertising and now want rid and onto the next thing. It is super rare in fishing for a company to make money from ‘ideas alone'. The trick is to have a good reputation, not keep discounting etc. Korda, Fox, Freespirit and Delkim are a few that rarely slash costs as they seem to have a longer term strategy.
https://www.total-fishing-tackle.com/jrc-stealth-ez-winder-bivvy
On a slight tangent but a demonstration of margins there is a JRC ez-winder bivvy at Total Tackle was £700 now £200. So you'd assume that they (tt) want around 70% margin so they are buying at a little over £125. JRC must have purchased landed in the UK for under £100. They will have spent on development, testing (I know) staff, advertising and now want rid and onto the next thing. It is super rare in fishing for a company to make money from ‘ideas alone'. The trick is to have a good reputation, not keep discounting etc. Korda, Fox, Freespirit and Delkim are a few that rarely slash costs as they seem to have a longer term strategy.
https://www.total-fishing-tackle.com/jrc-stealth-ez-winder-bivvy
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