I've decided that next year I'd like to roll my own bait for use on my syndicate, I never really rolled bait other than pop ups and don't really have much knowledge with regards to the science of it. What I'd like to do is roll a bait that contains both garlic and crayfish, is very dark and if possible contains hemp for texture. So my question is, if I took a base mix like bm1 or the tropamino is it possible to adapt it to suit my needs or do I need to construct it from scratch? Or is there any other proven and relatively inexpensive base mixes out there that would suit my idea? Thanks 🙏🏻

If it's something you'd like to get into then fair enough and some anglers love this aspect of fishing as much as the fishing itself, it is very rewarding catching on a bait you've put together yourself and caught with but it can become time consuming if using simple kit and wanting to roll a volume of bait.
I've dabbled on and off over the years and years ago it was generally beneficial on the pocket when ingredients were cheaper, not so much these days and some ingredients are no longer available, for me I would rather spend my time doing other things those few hours spent rolling bait are better served elsewhere for me now, my personal advice would be dont go down the rabbit hole pick a good company with a good track record and use the time doing other things.

In reply to Post #1
It's almost always possible to alter any mix
But it may cost a bit to get it right as you may waste a few mixes first
You could buy a base mix that has the ingredients
Like the below
https://www.carpcompany.com/bait2


or get one custom made by someone

In reply to Post #3
Be worth speaking with the guys at ABS - they would be able to tinker one of their existing basemixes and then roll it for you too

In reply to Post #1
Garlic is a proven good addition.

Crayfish meal is a bit over rated I think, 30% ash, and quite expensive for what it is, better ingredients for similar function for much cheaper, and better nutritionally.

Like carpstar, I think sometimes you are better off buying or using a ready rolled bait.
Money ok, time poor

Active bait solutions Garlic N Enzyme might be worth a look

In reply to Post #1
If you want garlic, look at Verselle Laga garlic oil. It is a birdfeed additive. 2.5ml per 4 eggs.

Crayfish meal, Shrimp meal are expensive for what they are.
You could look at Liver Meal, that is a definite attractor, AND nutritious.

In reply to Post #6
Cheers for the help, and I appreciate you other chaps suggesting I just by a decent bait rather than going down this rabbit hole, but I'm gonna have a crack at it. So specifically, how would incorporate garlic, a shellfish flavour and making the bait as dark as possible into the forums bm1 basemix. Or is it even possible??? Hemp would also be a bonus if I could get it in. Thanks again

In reply to Post #7
The BM1 comes out quite dark as it is, you can add blood powder which really darkens the bait up AND makes it harder which isn't ideal for me. You only need a very small amount of this, it's surprising how little of it makes a bait so dark.

You can use garlic powder at around 15-25g/kg I believe

Regarding a shellfish flavour. Rod Hutchinson sense appeal always gets mentioned. I've stuck with John baker flavours. His Ala Salar and/or Crab flavours would be where I was looking towards.

Regarding the hemp for texture the bait already has a healthy amount of “bits” in it from the CLO. Someone more experienced will be able to help you with how much hemp to add etc but for me it's not being anything to the mix really.

In reply to Post #8
Thanks for the help, I've been reading the approved recipe thread along with others and I've come up with this, hopefully someone will tell me where I've gone wrong/right.

30% fishmeal
15% supergold
10% CLO
10% semo
10% soya flour
8% pre digested fish meal
3% kelp meal
2% selenavite
8% vitamelo
2% garlic powder
4% blood powder
3% liver powder
(I'm aware I'm not at 100% exactly) 😂


Hemp oil
Liquid flavour ????? Suggestions?

In reply to Post #9
No doubt that mix will catch you fish. Would I change it if it was me yes I would but that's more down to personal preference than anything.

One tip I can give you is use your ingredients in 5 or 10% increments otherwise you will end up with loads of part filled bags that will end up in the bin...a big waste of money.

With the ingredients beware of blood powder at 4% you may end up with a harder bait than you want. If you are looking to darken the bait spirolina may be better. Also my experience of liver powder is that its one of the best ingredients around but only at levels of 5% and over.

Flavour wise the catchit labs salmon flavour is very good in Fishmeal baits and you only need 2ml per 6 eggs so it is also very economical.

In reply to Post #9
The way I've learnt to be older, wiser and more economical with rolling a new trial mix and not wasting too much in the way of ingredients, is to invest in some good quality digital scales accurately weighing in grams.

Divide your 1 kilo dry base mix by 7.

This will give you a mix of 142 grams, enough for a 1 egg mix and 1/7 reduced liquids.
Gives you an idea how well it rolls, or not, boils and looks.
Hope that helps, happy rolling

In reply to Post #11
That's a very useful tip. Thankyou. 👍🏻👍🏻

In reply to Post #10
Could I just drop the blood powder to 2-3 % ? Will it still have the desired effect of darkening the bait? I looked at spirulina but the blood powder is so much more cost effective.

In reply to Post #13
You are right the blood powder is less expensive. I would try it at 2.5% it might be okay. Depending on how much you plan to make you might be able to pick up a small packet of 200gm of Spiralina from Aldi or another supermarket for very little and you could experiment.

In reply to Post #13
Yes you can. Also consider the fact that blood meal helps to harden and bind the bait. So, you can get away with less eggs.

When I'm using 4% bloodpowder, I'm able to reduce the eggs by 50%.

In reply to Post #9
I don't know if anyone will disagree this but this is what I would do

You don't need so much blood powder and I don't think the kelp is bringing much to the table


I would lower the bloodworm to 2%. That will achieve what you want it to
Remove the kelp meal, the Selenavite is providing everything vitamins wise. And CLO texture wise
Add 2% to liver powder bring it to 5%


I'm using John baker flavours.
2ml ala salar
1ml plum
20ml oil
50ml fish/squid/liver hydro etc.

In reply to Post #16
This is what I'd amend your mix to. I thin it rounds it if better and makes it simpler whilst not losing anything.

30% fishmeal
15% supergold
10% CLO
10% semo
10% soya flour
8% pre digested fish meal
2% selenavite
8% vitamelo
2% blood powder
5% liver powder

20ml oil
50ml hydro
2ml Ala salar
Garlic essential oil


Maybe someone more knowledgeable can dispute/verify

In reply to Post #17
Are you adding salmon oil?

In reply to Post #18
I use salmon oil for my own baits Ken, whys that?

In reply to Post #16
This is really interesting, Thankyou mate. Regarding those liquids, what volume of dry ingredients are you basing that on? Might have to search around to find a liver powder supplier that's cheaper than I'm currently finding.

In reply to Post #20
So that's based to per kg of dry powders

What supplier are you looking at?

Beef liver is supposedly the best but the most expensive

How much are you intending on ordering for rolling how many kgs approx?

In reply to Post #21
Also bear in mind I don't really know what I'm talking about. Just from what I've learnt from others on here and the internet and a few other people over the past 2 years. I'm just regurgitating stuff I don't know much about but makes sense in my head lol

In reply to Post #19
Cause it's one of my favourite oils

In reply to Post #22
Well it's safe to say you know more than me, so the advice is welcome. I could potentially be making a fair bit, but probably buy a smaller amount of ingredients initially to run some trials and run it by a mate too. So far I've just looked at the obvious suppliers (baf, uk bait, ccmoore etc)

In reply to Post #17
Are their particular hydros/oils that you should/shouldn't use with particular mixes? I'd prefer to use hemp oil, and probably liver or squid hydro as these are why I use in my angling.

In reply to Post #25
The oils you select on their pour point. It's useless to use oils in your mix with a high pour point if you 'winter fishing'

The hydro's is all about quality. One supplier will have a killer liquid liver the other one dilutes it too much.

In reply to Post #26
I normally stop fishing around this time of year so won't be rolling for the winter. How do I find out the ‘pour point' of particular oils?

In reply to Post #27
Put them in the fridge. You will soon see what congeales and what is useable in the cold.

In reply to Post #28
Definitely good advice and worth trying.
I done it the other day with ground nut and toasted sesame oil. The sesame oil stayed relatively runny, and the nut oil went like lard.

In reply to Post #28
Ah ok, that's not really a concern as it's not a bait that will be used through winter.

In reply to Post #30
I think you can use whatever oil you want to mate. At the levels it's included, it's not really doing much. Don't think you will see a big difference from one oil to the next, unless you're talking about a winter bait, but you're not, so hemp oil is fine if that's what you want to use.

In reply to Post #31
Is it possible to overdo one flavour? For example, using liver powder and liver hydro?

In reply to Post #32
No, it's possible to overdo the amounts of course.

In reply to Post #32
Also, Is their much difference between lamlac and vitamelo?

In reply to Post #34
Fat content Google search on each will tell all.

In reply to Post #35
From what I can find, 4% more fat in lamlac.

In reply to Post #33
Even if those flavours are soluble?

In reply to Post #37
You may find it would become more difficult to roll the max amount of liquids i add to a mix are 100mil per kilo whether that be hydros, belachan, liquid yeasts, molasses etc

In reply to Post #37
Sorry, you're talking about liver powder and liver hydro. No you can't overdo them. Obviously you can put too much in that would become expensive and offer more negatives than positives.


I was just talking about flavours that can be overdone and become repellant.

In reply to Post #39
Yes mate was just talking about the liver hydro and powder. I'm aware of not overdoing it regarding the concentrated flavours, and think I've got the levels about right.

In reply to Post #40
In theory, you can't overdo but you've optimal inclusion levels. From those levels onwards you won't catch more by adding more liver powder and/or hydro.

For example, my fishmeal bait works well with 4% brewers yeast. Adding more doesn't contribute to a higher catch rate. (I've tested 6 and 10%)

In reply to Post #41
I should probably add my recipe to give context. Once I'm home I'll put it up, tbf it's almost the same as the suggestion for me that Dark Knight put up.

In reply to Post #40
remember one of the biggest edges in rolling your own is playing with boiling times and the shape of the finished bait.

before i out my rods away when me had our twins i cooked my baits at different times for my mixes. 1kg for 1min 1kg for 1:30 and a kilo at 2mins. this gives variety whilst keeping them on the same bait.
for quick sessions i made a mix, gunned them into sausages and boiled them like that. then id break off what i needed and fed that. different shapes give a massive edge in my opinion.
even better just using the paste, i rolled 16mm balls of paste and froze them, id keep them in a cool bag to keep them hard and feed those on my margin spot.

its not always the ingredients that make a bait what it is, color, texture, softness shape can give you so much more than including expensive additives.

In reply to Post #42
So this is where I'm at. Cost wise it's pretty damn good imo. Feel free to correct any cock ups

30%. lt 94
8%. pre digested fm
4%. Brocacel
14%. Supergold 60
10%. Soya flour
10%. CLO
10%. Semo
8%. Lamlac
2%. Selenavite
2%. Blood powder
4%. Liver powder

Shrimp hydro. 50ml
Garlic EO
Hemp oil. 20ml
Shellfish flavour

In reply to Post #44
Happy to fish with it.
But I would replace the shrimp hydro with liver hydro

In reply to Post #45
I actually agree, I changed it from liver at the last moment and don't really have a good reason why. 😂

In reply to Post #44
I'd personally ditch the lamlac in favour of 5% Acid and 5% Rennet , that's if cost isn't an issue , take the liver down to 2%

In reply to Post #47
Why lower the liver mate?

Scott you're now in the realms of personal preference.... Any bait maker will have a slightly different slant on the same thing. Personally I'd ditch the liver powder and replace with the caseins. If also swap the brocacel for brewers yeast. For me the yeast and liver are doing broadly similar things and I'd rather have more milk in it. I'd be aiming for about 18% soluble items as I've found less than that you're not getting the water exchange and more the bait goes too soft too quickly. But again that's personal preference based on the waters I fish.

In reply to Post #47
Trying to keep the cost down mate, would like to see the time invested be payed back with a little saving on my standard yearly bait cost

In reply to Post #48
Basically what Bob said

In reply to Post #50
If you're worried about cost. I would use brewers yeast instead of Brocacel and replace the liver powder with krill meal. Then you can also keep the liquid shrimp hydro.
This will be a lot cheaper and as effective

In reply to Post #49
More v interesting stuff. So which particular ingredients count as soluble? (Forgive my lack of knowledge) and should every recipe sit at around 18% for those? Cheers

In reply to Post #53
18% is my preference, but for lakes with high numbers of pest fish you'll need to reduce that further still....

Lamlac and yeast are virtually 100% soluble. If you're serious about learning about bait then understanding the key functions of each ingredient is part of that journey. You could take a tea spoon of each of the ingredients and stir into water to learn that but of the main ingredients you're likely to use the following are the soluble ones;

Lamlac
Yeast
Pdf

Others worth looking at that are also soluble are;
Calcium caseinate
Standard milk powder
Some liver powders
Keramine

There are others too and many ingredients have a degree of solubility as well, such as most fish meals. Often the only way to learn is to experiment. But don't get dragged into thinking more is better. It isn't. Keep your record under 10 ingredients and only change one thing at a time. I've been doing it 30+ years and I'm still learning.

In reply to Post #53
I've seen this online, doesn't list all the ingredients and only basic info but may be of interest to some

BLOOD POWDER/PLASMA (SOLUBLE BUT BECOMES INSOLUBLE WHEN COOKED) high nutritional qualities and an excellent crude protein value it makes a superb bait ingredient, ideal for binding and hardening whilst giving a dark red/brown finish to baits (great for darkening fish meal baits or use plasma if you do not want the dark reddish brown colour) also helps bind and harden baits use up to 100g per kg

BROCACEL YEAST (80-90% SOLUBLE) Brocacel is a pure yeast culture made from Saccharomyces Cerevisiae high in B vitsmins Strong natural attractant, enhances palatability of aquatic feed- Excellent natural bonding performance, increases the adhesion of feed Improves digestion, gut function and promotes beneficial bacteria growth- Contains unique yeast cell wall, improves the immunity of aquatic animals, enhances the capability of anti-stress- Contains pure yeast protein and carbohydrate, possibility to replace some fish meal / whey powder with Brocacel yeast powder use 20-30g per kg

CASEIN -ACID CASEIN 90 mesh (SEMI SOLUBLE) will enable finished boilies to maintain a semi-soft, moist centre when incorporated into a base mix. This casein has a protein content in excess of 90% and is ideal for use in H.N.V. baits where a high protein content and quality is sought. also helps with binding use up to 200g per kg depending on other ingredients

CASEIN -RENNET CASEIN 90 Mesh (SEMI SOLUBLE) excellent for use within buoyant or semi-buoyant baits. Rennet is air-dried on a fluidised base and is recommended for use in conjunction with Acid Casein as the combination delivers a more complete profile of amino acids to base mixes. Being of 90mesh grade, it will enable finished boilies to maintain a semi-soft, moist centre when incorporated into a base mix. also helps with binding use up to 200g per kg depending on other ingredirnts

CALCIUM CASEINATE (SOLUBLE) Inclusion levels require careful consideration as Calcium Caseinate is not only soluble but is also very light use up to 100g if there is little other soluble ingredients in the mix and a reasonable amount of dense ingredient. If this is not the case, lower levels should be used

CLO BIRDFOOD (INSOLUBLE )containing no less than 12 ingredients including egg biscuit vegetable proteins, superfoods, cereals and of course Cod Liver Oil, CLO does enhance nutritionally any feed formulation, not only that it also adds structure/texture and significant binding qualities to bait/feed formulation. recommended dose up to 200g of your total mix dependant on other ingredients used.
There are a lot of inferior copies around full of breadcrumbs best one go get is from British aqua feeds other egg biscuit birdfoods are available as an alternative ones I can recommend are EMP CEDE Red Factor Nectarblend Prosecto Insectiverous Readymix PTX all avaible from haiths

EGG ALBUMEN (SOLUBLE INSOLUBLE WHEN COOKED) egg white powder is essential for baits that require a skinned, firm finish. Although other bait hardeners are available, egg albumen does not compromise the digestibility and nutritional quality of baits, it actually enhances it with a protein content in excess of 78%.
Use Egg Albumen and Whey Gel at an inclusion level of 5% each to eliminate the requirement for liquid egg use up to 100g per kg

WHOLE EGG POWDER (SOLUBLE INSOLUBLE WHEN COOKED) At an inclusion level of 10%, this can be used as a direct replacement for liquid egg. Although it doesn't supply the same protein content as egg albumen, many bait buffs believe it is more attractive to carp. In terms of functionality, whole egg powder will firm baits throughout whereas egg albumen will tend to create a tougher skin whilst leaving the centre moist use up to 100g per kg

FISH MEAL - L.T.94 (MOSTLY INSOLUBLE BUT DEPENDING ON MANUFACTURER IS AROUND 30% SOLUBLE) Produced from chilled raw fish, it is treated at low drying temperatures, maintaining more of the nutritional qualities and amino acids, making it far superior to most standard fishmeals. With an oil content of around 11% and a protein content of 72%+ (of which 94% is digestible) use up to 400g per kg

FISH MEAL - PRE-DIGESTED (Enzyme Treated) (SOLUBLE) is processed under a very strict process that involves spray drying, flash pasteurisation and natural enzymatic hydrolysis. This process results in a highly attractive, nutritionally valuable meal that has a pepsin protein digestibility in excess of 97% and a water solubility of 75%+. use up to 100g per kg

FISH MEAL PROVIMI 66 (INSOLUBLE) an excellent amino acid profile and 66% crude protein content it has very few equals within the vast range of raw materials and ingredients used in modern day bait production use up to 500g per kg

KELP MEAL (INSOLUBLE) Kelp Granules is basically a supplement containing a vast array of Vitamins/Minerals & trace elements, with it containing many ‘Micro nutrients' this product does not to be used in high amounts, 10-30g per kg is sufficient depending on other ingredients used within the feed formulation.

KRILL MEAL (INSOLUBLE) Its salmon pink colour and distinctive crustacean aroma make it almost irresistible to carp. Antarctic Krill Meal also has a coarse physical appearance, which helps to add a rough texture to baits and increase the leakage properties of the finished bait if added at the correct level, is a very light ingredient and effectively reduces the density of baits, thus enabling them to fly up into the mouth of feeding carp more quickly. But beware of over-inclusion as you may end up with buoyant baits. use up to 100g per kg

LAMLAC MILK POWDER (SOLUBLE) skimmed milk powder. Creating a smooth finish to baits, Lamlac is ideal for use in base mixes wher

LAMLAC MILK POWDER (SOLUBLE) skimmed milk powder. Creating a smooth finish to baits, Lamlac is ideal for use in base mixes where effective binding properties, a creamy taste, and vitamins and trace elements are required use up to 100g per kg

LACTALBUMEN (SOLUBLE) Lactalbumen is a milk protein of the very highest quality, having a protein content in excess of 88%. It consists of two main protein forms - lactalbumin and lacto globulins. Where high nutritional value baits are sought, Lactalbumen is an ideal ingredient that can be included with, or instead of, other milk proteins such as caseins, whey protein etc use up to 100g per kg

MAIZE FLOUR/MEAL (INSOLUBLE) An inexpensive Carbohydrate source, this ingredient will add binding/bulking properties to your mix, use up to 250g of your total mix dependant on other Carbohydrate sources used

MEAT MEAL (INSOLUBLE) Its nutritional profile is complimented by a strong meaty aroma making the meal such an effective fish-attracting ingredient. Without having to add synthetic flavours which blow over a short time, Meat Meal adds a powerful, natural meaty aroma giving baits a completely different dimension. When used in base mixes, it gives a brown, slightly speckled finish to bait but lends no binding properties to the mix, and is therefore often used in conjunction with blood powder use up to 400g per kg

PEA PROTEIN (THERE ARE 2 VERSIONS AVAILABLE ONE IS SOLUBLE ONE ISN'T SO ASK YOUR INGREDIENT SUPPLIER FIRST WHICH ONE THEY HAVE) More and more Aqua/Fishing bait companies are turning to this ingredient as a suitable and more importantly sustainable protein source to replace a lot of Fishmeal in fish feed formulations, its Amino Acid profile ensures growth rates of fish are not compromised when using this as a quality alternative source to Fishmeal, whilst the bio availability is not as high as Fishmeal, trials by the major French manufacturer have concluded no loss of growth rates in fish. Use up to 250g of your total mix, dependant on other ingredients

POULTRY PROTEIN MEAL (INSOLUBLE) superb option as a fish meal replacement. It has a consistent mid-brown colour, an attractive mild cooked chicken aroma, very similar functional properties to fish meal, an excellent protein quality with a crude content of 70%, and an oil level of approximately 11% (the same as LT94 Fish Meal). Not only is it a superb protein source but it also gives baits an excellent alternative aroma and taste to that of fish meal use up to 400g per kg

ROBIN RED (INSOLUBLE) Made from peppers, oils, sugars and crushed seeds, it has a deep, 'beetroot red' colour that traces through as a red or brown tinge in finished baits. The strength of colour in finished boilies greatly depends on other ingredients included use up to 100g per kg

SHRIMP MEAL (INSOLUBLE) Being a very low-density product it is important that it is not included excessively in base mixes but is excellent for reducing the density of baits. This helps to make them 'fly up' into the mouth of fish more easily than heavier baits when fish are grubbing around, feeding in the baited area. But, as with Krill Meal, beware of over-inclusion as you may end up with buoyant baits! use up to 100g per kg

SUPERGOLD 60 (60% maize protein) (INSOLUBLE) is a fine, gritty meal, made from the high protein fraction of maize. It is a very highly digestible source of quality protein that is becoming more and more widely used within the bait and aquaculture industry as a fishmeal-replacing ingredient. With a protein content of 60%, and an energy content of around 20% higher than fish meal, Supergold 60 has a great deal of nutritional value to offer to baits as well as functional and appearance properties. As a bright golden yellow meal, it adds distinctive coloured flecks, as well as a gritty texture and an attractive maize aroma. use up to 200g per kg

VITAMEALO MILK POWDER (SOLUBLE) a source of milk proteins and oils, which adds gentle binding properties to bait, whilst adding a sweet, creamy finish use up to 100g per kg

WHEATGERM (INSOLUBLE) a very valuable component of aquaculture baits and feeds that supports the intestinal flora of fish, especially during the colder months when digestibility is essential for them to gain maximum benefit from the food they consume. This human food grade ingredient is ideal for use in 'year-round' baits, but is very buoyant so should be limited to low inclusion levels use up to 50g per kg

WHEY GEL (SOLUBLE BUT BECOMES INSOLUBLE WHEN COOKED) Whey Gel is a modified whey protein used in the human food industry to replace eggs in food items where strong gelling properties are required. With an inclusion level of up to 50g per kg baits can be boiled for reduced times (down to 60 seconds), maintaining more of their nutritional value whilst producing very hard baits that are cooked right through to the centre.

WHEY PROTEIN CONCENTRATE [ 80% ] (SOLUBLE BUT BECOMES INSOLUBLE WHEN COOKED) It has excellent qualities that aid binding, hardening and adds smoothness to bait that makes rolling very easy. Used in mixes where superior protein quality is required, WPC80 is very effective when used in conjunction with other milk proteins, but is also very effective as a functional bait hardener that adds a valuable milk protein content to fishmeal and bird food baits use up to 100g per kg

SOYA ISOLATE (INSOLUBLE) Soya Isolate is the isolated protein fraction of soya bean and has a crude protein content of around 80%. It is a very light ingredient that adds a gentle pliability to bait whilst contributing essential amino acids that increase the overall protein quality of the finished bait use up to 100g per kg

SOYA FLOUR (INSOLUBLE) is a fine-ground, enzyme inactive, full-fat soya bean meal. High in oils and fats with a protein content of around 45%, Soya Flour is a v

SOYA FLOUR (INSOLUBLE) is a fine-ground, enzyme inactive, full-fat soya bean meal. High in oils and fats with a protein content of around 45%, Soya Flour is a very popular, all round ingredient that contributes many benefits to mixes. It is an effective binder, has an attractive malt aroma, adds a smoothness that eases rolling, is reasonably inexpensive and also maintains moisture content in baits use up to 200g per kg depending on other ingredients

SEMOLINA (INSOLUBLE) Semolina is ground Durum Wheat, an inexpensive Carbohydrate source used to add bulking/binding qualities to bait/feed formulations, Semolina will aid in rolling and help with hardening of most manufactured bait/feed formulations, used in the right quantities Semolina is a very useful ingredient. Use up to 250g of your total mix dependant on other Carbohydrate sources used.

TIGERNUT FLOUR (INSOLUBLE)
This flour will give any bait a very smooth and creamy texture with a particularly sweet taste and scent, similar to cooked tiger nuts even when tasted dry is has a very sweet taste high in natural sugars, carbohydrates, fat, fibers and vitamin E use up to 200g per kg depending on other ingredients

In reply to Post #57
Thank you for posting that list, informative easily understood.

In reply to Post #53
As he said personal preference and lake dependant. I have my solubles at 30%. ****er to roll but prefer the quicker breakdown and theoretically more attractions being released. Also there's the theory of fish preferring to eat softer boilies.

In reply to Post #58
No worries mate, thankyou for thanking me

In reply to Post #55
Bob and Dark knight, cheers very much for your help. That list is brilliant. Really looking forward to getting stuck into it

Happy to help. The bait world is full of armchair experts who pass off personal opinion as facts. The only way is to never accept this stuff as fact and to question it, run it through your own personal frame of reference and then work it out for yourself. If you're on Facebook look up bait buffs group. Lots of great info on there.

In reply to Post #1
As a starting point why not roll the trop with eggs only as a starting point ?

You may well be quite surprised.

You can then tweek bit by bit if are unhappy with your results.

In reply to Post #63
Because making cookies with flour, butter, eggs, sugar and chocolate is more fun than making cookies from Betty cockers pre made cookie mix.

Also to some it's not all just about catching more, I personally love rolling bait and playing with recipes and learning. It's a whole extra hobby. And you don't learn much from rolling premixes either. I'm sure I'd have caught a few more if I'd just gone to a decent boilie firm, but not the same for me

In reply to Post #64
No disrespect intended just my opinion

In reply to Post #61
Hi Scott I see you are Norfolk based
I have some rolling tables you are welcome to try, if you'd like to collect them

In reply to Post #63
I did consider this, I also had the offer of going in with a mate who buys a basemix then tweaks it. But I'd really like to do my own thing. 👍🏻👍🏻

In reply to Post #66
Hello mate, are you looking to sell some? Cheers

In reply to Post #68
Sent you a PM

In reply to Post #64
My reply was to post 1 who made reference to two base mixes. BM1 and also the Tropmanimo which can be purchased as a complete base mix or formulated one's self with individually sourced ingredients.

In reply to Post #69
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

In reply to Post #62
Another question. Is it generally preferred to ‘balance' a shellfish/fish flavour with a sweet or cream flavour?

In reply to Post #72
Not really, homemade bait - It is what ever you want your bait to be.

Most well put together fishmeal type base mixes, will catch without any flavours added.

I think many combinations, seem weird on paper, just come from many years of being tried and tested, proven fish catchers by certain companies. The fun is in the experimenting really.

Monster crab & Shellfish sense appeal ( Hutchy )
Shellfish plum ( Essential baits )
Squid and Octopus and ester cream ( Solar )
Shellfish and Scopex ( Nash )

In reply to Post #73
Thankyou mate,

In reply to Post #74
Or don't have a flavour at all....

In reply to Post #75
Cost effective and effective.

In reply to Post #75
Ah Christ, more to consider. 😂😂😂😂 think I prob just need to shut up and get some rolled now

In reply to Post #77
Just remember less is more... less to question, easier to store fresh ingredients and manage, and cheaper.

I would just practice getting your base mix/oil/hydro to your liking, one that rolls and boils nicely, and doesn't stress you out whilst rolling it !
Because you won't like rolling your own bait otherwise.

If you feel the need for flavours and other extra liquids you can play with that, once you have caught a few on the basic mix.
Happy rolling, start with a 1 egg, or 4 egg mix and go from there.

In reply to Post #44


Any advice now is personal choice, although I would stick with Liver Powder at a minimum of 5% and I wouldn't bother mixing fishmeals.


As for flavours you can put flavours in, but I would keep levels low.

Fishmeals can have any flavour you want to add, fruits were a favourite back in the Premier and BFM era.
I did quite well adding a liver flavour to a fishmeal.

Garlic essential oils can be strong, I recall Nutrabaits years ago recommended theirs at a maximum of 1 drop per 4 eggs, and also did a mixed version, I think it was garlic and leek. (Not sure what the mix was)

In reply to Post #79
Garlic on almond or leek or almond wasn't it? Something like that...

In reply to Post #1
A lot of companies sell basemix that you could adjust to suit your needs, to be honest if using mainly fishmeal and binders with some half decent powder/liquid additives if you use it well and fish decently you should catch well enough.

It really can be addictive, I have friends who are still totally obsessed with bait, always mucking about!
Good luck with it but don't get too caught up, simple still catches loads.

In reply to Post #79
Did they do the garlic and mint combination that Tim Paisley used?

In reply to Post #82
Nutrabaits Garlic Mint, a good flavour that, although I'm not sure on the flavour base.
I think most of their flavours were Nature Identical, although the Under The Counter Specials may have been Essential Oil or natural product mixes.

Ken T would possibly know

In reply to Post #87
I thought the garlic mint was just an essential oil combination?

In reply to Post #90
I honestly don't know, but you could well be right. I think the UTCS flavours were likely to be EO or natural product based, where most others they sold were NI.

In reply to Post #91
What's NI out of curiosity?

In reply to Post #92
Nature Identical.

In reply to Post #93

In reply to Post #94
So finally, it looks like this is where I'm at. I did want to order everything form aa to save hassle and keep cost down but it appears they are out of lt94 😩

30% LT94
8% pre digested fm
14% meggagold
10% SLUIS CLO
8% Lamlac
2% blood powder
10% soya
10% semo
4% brewers yeast
2% garlic powder

10 eggs + shell
2ml boost 250
50ml liver hydro
20ml hemp oil
2ml crayfish Thermidor
2ml black pepper eo

Thoughts??

In reply to Post #95
That looks good, though garlic at 2% will overpower the mix. Unless you want that, I'd reduce to 10g max and just up fishmeal or birdfood.
2ml black pepper is too much, reduce it to 1ml max or 0.5ml (12 drops) which is my preference.
Use the Irish low temp from AA. I now prefer it to LT94.

In reply to Post #96
Thankyou mate, was unsure on the black pepper so that's helped a lot. Have you used the sardine and anchovy lt fishmeal from aa, it states it's darker which appeals to me, could maybe split it 50/50 with the Irish fm????

In reply to Post #97
74I have used the S & A yes. I don't like it. It's not the same as the old oily S & A meal. I found it bound poorly too. Stick with the Irish (Pelagia)... It is a superb product.
BTW, avoid the Tilapia hydro powder from AA. It is horrible and bitter, almost unpalatable and ruins a bait. Stick with the standard CPSP90, or blend that with the Shrimp hydro powder from AA which is lovely.

In reply to Post #97
Currently using this combo of fishmeals in a recipe, with very consistent results.

150g Pelagia LT Irish Fishmeal
100g LT Sardine & Anchovy Meal
80g Sopropeche CPSP 90

In reply to Post #98
Stick with the cpsp90 rather than the new actifish variety?

In reply to Post #100
Not seen the Acti tbh, so can't comment on it

In reply to Post #101
I've finally taken the l plunge and ordered ingredients, hopefully do a few test rolls next weekend. Can't wait

In reply to Post #99
How do you find the Irish stuff mate?

In reply to Post #102
Is there any reason why I can't mix together all my basemix ingredients (in the correct ratios) and store as one powder rather than having a dozen different bags/tubs

In reply to Post #104
that's what I do. Just bear in mind the ingredient that goes off first.

In reply to Post #105
Yeah I was thinking that, hopefully nothing will be hanging around too long as I order in general amounts needed.

In reply to Post #106
Also, is there a definite rule as to nozzle size versus table size. Cheers 👍🏻👍🏻

In reply to Post #107

Is there any reason why I can't mix together all my basemix ingredients (in the correct ratios) and store as one powder rather than having a dozen different bags/tubs



Also, is there a definite rule as to nozzle size versus table size. Cheers 👍🏻👍🏻   



Question 1, no that is not a problem. It is the easiest way to store it, just make sure you use it before the first use by date of the ingredients.

Roughly speaking, cut your nozzle around 1-2mm smaller than your rolling table. For a 18 mm table cut your nozzle at 16mm to start, you can sand it larger to 17mm if you need to.

Base mixes usually expand a bit as you gun them onto the table.

In reply to Post #108
Cheers Nick. I've rolled a test batch (2 egg mix) and it mixed and gunned out perfectly. Other than not being perfect with the gun/table size they're spot on. I may possibly lessen the blood as they are a little dense/hard, I'm going to lessen the boil time on the next test batch to see if that helps too.

In reply to Post #103
In conflict with myself tbh! Debating whether to stick with the Pelagia Irish from Target Feeds or the NOR 70 that Bacarel now stock.