In reply to Post #45
Anyone leasing a water then has to make the same decisions as someone leasing a shop, warehouse, factory unit etc.
Anyone leasing a water then has to make the same decisions as someone leasing a shop, warehouse, factory unit etc.
Remember the uproar when Leisure sports sold the Darenth complex in the mid 90s. It went from £90 to £250 a season. 
It was the beginning of the end for that historic complex of lakes. And the beginning of when greed started to creep into carp fishing. Sad really...
It was the beginning of the end for that historic complex of lakes. And the beginning of when greed started to creep into carp fishing. Sad really...
In reply to Post #47
That is actually a very good point.
The existence of RMC and the other gravel company fishing arms effectively depressed the whole "market" with their (it has to be said) incredibly cheap tickets, even for the time.
Same for cheap clubs with "general" waters with a few carp (and crucially only a few carp anglers - not filling all the swims so low-paying pleasure anglers were still happy),
RMC/Boyers etc. were not actually in it for profit as such, as any profit they could have made from the angling branches would have been peanuts compared to their core business. I dare say as long as they more or less broke even their gravel extractor bosses stayed fairly happy.
I'm not sure if this is the case but I dare say their very existence was due to some kind of socio-environmental compensation deal for having extracted the gravel : certain % of usage as nature reserves, fishing and watersports.
Once those deals ran out and/or the companies were bought out by multinationals (legitimately I guess) only interested in the core business, the fishing arms were sold off and the market became competitive, hence the price rises.
That is actually a very good point.
The existence of RMC and the other gravel company fishing arms effectively depressed the whole "market" with their (it has to be said) incredibly cheap tickets, even for the time.
Same for cheap clubs with "general" waters with a few carp (and crucially only a few carp anglers - not filling all the swims so low-paying pleasure anglers were still happy),
RMC/Boyers etc. were not actually in it for profit as such, as any profit they could have made from the angling branches would have been peanuts compared to their core business. I dare say as long as they more or less broke even their gravel extractor bosses stayed fairly happy.
I'm not sure if this is the case but I dare say their very existence was due to some kind of socio-environmental compensation deal for having extracted the gravel : certain % of usage as nature reserves, fishing and watersports.
Once those deals ran out and/or the companies were bought out by multinationals (legitimately I guess) only interested in the core business, the fishing arms were sold off and the market became competitive, hence the price rises.
In reply to Post #47
I think the new stocking policy caused the most uproar to be fair...
I think the new stocking policy caused the most uproar to be fair...
In reply to Post #48
The CEMEX Silver ticket which I had for a few seasons had various lakes at Yateley, Wraysbury, Sutton, some in Essex too - all over the place really - that are all sewn up and costing a fortune now.
That ticket cost peanuts, most definitely less than any of the syndicate/club takeovers charge for any individual lake or venue now.
The CEMEX Silver ticket which I had for a few seasons had various lakes at Yateley, Wraysbury, Sutton, some in Essex too - all over the place really - that are all sewn up and costing a fortune now.
That ticket cost peanuts, most definitely less than any of the syndicate/club takeovers charge for any individual lake or venue now.
In reply to Post #48
Amey Roadstone Company had an immense ticket, Great Linford was fantastic, Dorchester lakes etc. That was about £45 when I joined. Glory days indeed.
Amey Roadstone Company had an immense ticket, Great Linford was fantastic, Dorchester lakes etc. That was about £45 when I joined. Glory days indeed.
In reply to Post #48
I have also always thought the same about this type of ticket back in the day. Most gravel extraction companies usually had to re-constitute the land after extraction had closed and are then responsible for the upkeep. Hence someone thought that creating a fisheries or water sports venues would offset the cost. Once they hit the required amount of year they are required to do the up keep, it becomes a asset with not much value in comparison to the core business so they just sell up
I have also always thought the same about this type of ticket back in the day. Most gravel extraction companies usually had to re-constitute the land after extraction had closed and are then responsible for the upkeep. Hence someone thought that creating a fisheries or water sports venues would offset the cost. Once they hit the required amount of year they are required to do the up keep, it becomes a asset with not much value in comparison to the core business so they just sell up
In reply to Post #49
Didn't it Just...
I think these Gravel company's had a remit probably as far up as government level to return these great scars on the land back into a usable state. And turning them into fisheries and watersport centres was one of them. As you mentioned these were done not for profit. Probably as a way of encouraging the working masses out of the big smoke into the countryside for a few hours for a bit of fresh air.
This all changed when having an Angling arm in your company. As well as trying to streamline Didn't quite fit in with your green agender you were trying to promote.
Sold on for maximum profit. Which got passed onto the end user us Anglers.
Some would say we had it to good for to long. But what was wrong in that..
Didn't it Just...
I think these Gravel company's had a remit probably as far up as government level to return these great scars on the land back into a usable state. And turning them into fisheries and watersport centres was one of them. As you mentioned these were done not for profit. Probably as a way of encouraging the working masses out of the big smoke into the countryside for a few hours for a bit of fresh air.
This all changed when having an Angling arm in your company. As well as trying to streamline Didn't quite fit in with your green agender you were trying to promote.
Sold on for maximum profit. Which got passed onto the end user us Anglers.
Some would say we had it to good for to long. But what was wrong in that..
had my ticket for near on 10 years now (Non publicity water) it was circa £400 when I joined now over £1000 but I still think its worth every penny, security in that its fully gated and otter fenced, I can leave my car open or go to shops and nothing gets touched, like minded anglers, not over crowded and I can get a swim at a weekend if theres 7 anglers on its busy, 20 minutes from home, good head of 40s
I doubt I would get any of the boxes ticked that I need for my fishing if I looked elsewhere - I cringe going to day ticket waters nowdays as there always rammed and your on top of each other in the main also if I do 20 nights a year its £50 a session which I think is fair for what I get
Ultimately like anything in life - value is defined as a fair return or equivalent in goods, services, or money for something exchanged - If there wasnt demand syndicates wouldnt sell so its pretty obvious to me why they are so popular esp the good ones
I doubt I would get any of the boxes ticked that I need for my fishing if I looked elsewhere - I cringe going to day ticket waters nowdays as there always rammed and your on top of each other in the main also if I do 20 nights a year its £50 a session which I think is fair for what I get
Ultimately like anything in life - value is defined as a fair return or equivalent in goods, services, or money for something exchanged - If there wasnt demand syndicates wouldnt sell so its pretty obvious to me why they are so popular esp the good ones
In reply to Post #54
That cost comparison is a good point, 20 nights a year isn't loads and I'd agree per night reasonable value for that type of venue. I'd certainly pay it.
That cost comparison is a good point, 20 nights a year isn't loads and I'd agree per night reasonable value for that type of venue. I'd certainly pay it.
In reply to Post #55
Its dead mans shoes and there is a waiting list as long as youd care to imagine which tells you all you need to know - most excl syndicates are exactly the same
Its dead mans shoes and there is a waiting list as long as youd care to imagine which tells you all you need to know - most excl syndicates are exactly the same
In reply to Post #1
You are so rich though. Got about 14 tickets
You are so rich though. Got about 14 tickets
Heading back to carp fishing this year, I've considered two waters that i used to fish.
The first a relaively easy 4.5 acre water with fish to mid-20s, as far as I am aware the old stock really hasn't grown on over the last 10-12 years.
Was £175 with 20 members now £325 with 40 members.
The second a water I really felt that if I never fished anywhere else I wouldn't mind.
Mixed feelings, doubled. A lot for a nostalgic summer's fishing, risk of carp fever and another 8 years chasing ghosts
The first a relaively easy 4.5 acre water with fish to mid-20s, as far as I am aware the old stock really hasn't grown on over the last 10-12 years.
Was £175 with 20 members now £325 with 40 members.
The second a water I really felt that if I never fished anywhere else I wouldn't mind.
Mixed feelings, doubled. A lot for a nostalgic summer's fishing, risk of carp fever and another 8 years chasing ghosts
In reply to Post #1
Prices are getting silly - especially in the West Mids where decent 'syndicates / members waters' are the exception and not the norm; I've ditched my relative 'value' ticket which has stayed the same price for the last 3yrs (£580) as although the water is otter fenced / secure / has decent bailiffs and members, it suffers from flooding and they've lost some decent stock making it currently a bit hit and miss . . .on this basis I've returned to a previous water that was originally a similar price but is now slightly over an eyewatering £1k which I never thought I'd end up spending. . .
However - it still ticks my boxes - decent stock / experienced anglers only / otter fenced / very secure. The owner is running it as a business which is fair enough; he has to make a living and knows he can sell tickets to plenty in this area so can pretty much dictate the price. I view the value much like carpstar40; most premium day tickets (eg Linear/Bluebell) are charging £35-40 for 24hrs; I only usually do 48hrs each session so on that basis only need to do 14x sessions a season for it to be 'perceived value' . . . .
Appreciate this prices some anglers out of the game - but would argue that there are still some value options if you dont have the same set of parameters . . . .I also have a BAA ticket which is silly value at £40 pa!
Prices are getting silly - especially in the West Mids where decent 'syndicates / members waters' are the exception and not the norm; I've ditched my relative 'value' ticket which has stayed the same price for the last 3yrs (£580) as although the water is otter fenced / secure / has decent bailiffs and members, it suffers from flooding and they've lost some decent stock making it currently a bit hit and miss . . .on this basis I've returned to a previous water that was originally a similar price but is now slightly over an eyewatering £1k which I never thought I'd end up spending. . .
However - it still ticks my boxes - decent stock / experienced anglers only / otter fenced / very secure. The owner is running it as a business which is fair enough; he has to make a living and knows he can sell tickets to plenty in this area so can pretty much dictate the price. I view the value much like carpstar40; most premium day tickets (eg Linear/Bluebell) are charging £35-40 for 24hrs; I only usually do 48hrs each session so on that basis only need to do 14x sessions a season for it to be 'perceived value' . . . .
Appreciate this prices some anglers out of the game - but would argue that there are still some value options if you dont have the same set of parameters . . . .I also have a BAA ticket which is silly value at £40 pa!
In reply to Post #58
"The first a relaively easy 4.5 acre water with fish to mid-20s, as far as I am aware the old stock really hasn't grown on over the last 10-12 years.
Was £175 with 20 members now £325 with 40 members."
I bet the lease has skyrocketed over the last 10-12 years?
I would hazard a guess that even 40 members at the original £175 wouldn't cover the lease on a 4.5 acre lake.
Have they also had to pay out for otter fencing? Trust me, that isn't cheap to install and requires ongoing maintenance.
"The first a relaively easy 4.5 acre water with fish to mid-20s, as far as I am aware the old stock really hasn't grown on over the last 10-12 years.
Was £175 with 20 members now £325 with 40 members."
I bet the lease has skyrocketed over the last 10-12 years?
I would hazard a guess that even 40 members at the original £175 wouldn't cover the lease on a 4.5 acre lake.
Have they also had to pay out for otter fencing? Trust me, that isn't cheap to install and requires ongoing maintenance.