I've got 2 extra 5000t spools coming, I've got a 4oz spool of 25lb mono for backing and 200m of kontour to go on each.

If I had three I'd wind the kontour on then the backing before then winding onto one of the other spools so two would ended up spooled to the rim and the third empty.

Problem is I don't have that spare third spool and don't much fancy buying one just to do this.

So is there a dark art to getting two spools loaded up to the rim?

Ta

Go a football pitch or common. Wind on the Kontour, tie on and add the backing to the lip. Walk it off, distance sticks set at about 100 yards and then tie the backing on first.

Might get some funny looks and comments, best done when it's quiet!

Buy a line counter. Wind your 200m of Kontour onto one empty spool. Fill it with backing using the line counter, note the amount it takes. Wind all of that onto the second spool. Wind the noted amount of backing onto the empty spool using the counter, fill with Kontour.

In reply to Post #3
I do this but count the reel handle turns.

Did it again last month putting backing and FTX onto Penn 7000 spools.

You can kind of work the maths out as well to give you a rough guide looking up the retrieve rate per turn but if I had 2 spools I'd wind the contour on first then count the number of turns of the handle per backing line to not quite fill the spool (its fluoro so don't overfill)....

Wind that back onto the empty spool then you have your guide for the backing for the remaining spool.

Just concentrate and don't loose count

Thanks, yeah there's a park up the road from here so as.long as I time it when the dog walkers aren't there, that could work.

Failing that, it'll be man maths 🙂.

Because it's fluoro, how under filled should I have the spools. Max cast will probably be 70-80 yards.

In reply to Post #5
Not much.... maybe a mm or 2 less on the top lip of the spool vs mono.

Just to help in any way against it springing off the top of the spool any chance it gets.

I have used both techniques but favour the open field approach

I'm not happy with any twist going from shop spool onto first spool, then off first spool to second destination spool.

Allowing the line to be ‘combed' by the grass as it's retrieved helps remove twist.

Sometimes I'll do this between sessions, rods laid at one end of my field with bailarms open, then I grab all 3 lines and mountain bike down field until line (held gently) pulls from my hand. Take a WIDE berth back up to the rods and wind them in one by one

I find slow oscillation reels can cause more twisting than normal reels

In reply to Post #1
What strength / dia of Kontour are you using? Also are you using spool reducers?

Even if you had another spare spool I would not use the reverse method especially with fluro - all you are doing is adding twist and you'll have enough 'management' to deal with once its spooled on / you've been using it a bit anyway . . .

Standard Tourney spools (without reducers) take 330M of 0.35mm line - the easiest solution is to go for Kontour in 15lb which is also 0.35 . . .so for a 200M spool of Kontour per reel you need to 'make up' 130M of backing. Get some cheap backing line ALSO in 0.35 (eg Korda Basic bulk spool of 12lb is 0.35) - this will give you the backer.

Option 1 - Tourneys retrieve 102cms per revolution - 130M is 13000 cms - 13000/102 is 127.5 rotations so round that up to 128. Wind on the backer / attach Kontour with a double blood / surgeons knot and fill spool to required level . .

Option 2 (more accurate) - Do the above but perhaps reel on 130 spool rotations just to be sure. 130M is 142yards - 142yards is 35.5 wraps - so round this up to 36 wraps. Wrap out the backer on distance sticks to 36 wraps and cut the line - discard any excess on the spool and wind on the 36 wraps. Attach the spool of Kontour as previous to the backer - job done.

I wouldn't worry about overspooling initially - have a few practice casts with a heavy lead and let the fluro bed in a bit - if its still springy you can tie to a post and stretch then review whether the spool could do with a few metres stripping etc.

If your using a heavier diameter mainline (eg 18lb Kontour at 0.37mm) you can still do the above but maybe reduce the backer to 30/32 wraps to allow for the diameter difference. If you want to be really anal there is a calculator you can use - Line Calculator

If you know the diameter of the 25lb backing line you have already bought (and the Kontour you are buying) you can work out the differentials in reverse to ascertain the backing line distance required (if that makes sense)

Good luck!

Cor, I need to go and see capacity of my current spools can hold (can't find online) and maybe I can figure it out.

Kontour I've bought is 12lb so 0.33
Backing is trakker 25lb mono so 0.43
Spools are the Weston deep version for the 5000t (got 2 for 1) i've assumed they're the same capacity as standard daiwa spools because they have no markings on them. No reducers, they're buried on my current spools.

Must admit taking it down the field might be the easiest option. Southsea common is just down the road and it must be at least 600m from one end to the other, so could literally walk the whole length out, but will almost definitely end up catching a dog 😂.

In reply to Post #9
@0nslow Dogs or mountain bikes are the most common nuisance species...

@Belch Tourneys retrieve 102cms per revolution
This question has always bugged me, now seems the ideal time to ask... surely that's not accurate. When you start loading the spool, it's diameter (circumference) is smaller than once the spool is half or almost full. Therefore, 102 cm is more likely an average than accurate?
Or, the difference is negligible, but I doubt that
I might have to do some maths in a moment and work it out

In reply to Post #9
If you've got an Android phone. There's an awesome app for this called "Calcline"

LINKY POO™ https://calcline-sea-angler.en.aptoide.com/app

I paired it with a simple Berkley line counter, and it is always spot on.

In reply to Post #9
Using that calculator, it reckons my tournies will hold 200m of 0.43 or 330m of 0.33.

So if I do 75 revolutions of 0.43 I think I'm going to be a bit over a third of the spool full which should leave space for 'around' 200m of kontour.

Or is that proper Sunday afternoon man maths 😂

In reply to Post #9
Hi Chap -

You do need to know the spool capacity based on total length and line diameter - once you have this the EASIEST thing to do is ditch your current backing spool and get a bulk spool of 0.33mm backer . . . luckily for you this is Daiwa Sensor in 12lb so dirt cheap

The calculator link will help you! Lets assume your spools are indeed 'standard' and hold 330M of 0.35mm - using the link this is the equivalent of 371M of 0.33mm (to fill the spool) however you only have 200M of Kontour so need to make up the difference = 171M of 0.33mm

171M is 187 yards / 46.75 wraps - so you need 47 wraps of 0.33mm as a backer

Alternatively using the same logic on the link - if you put 0.33mm / 171M as the 'total' spool capacity in the top section and 0.43mm in the bottom section this is equivalent to 100.7M of 0,43mm

100.7M is 117 yards / 29 wraps - so you'll need 29 wraps of 0.43mm as a backer

Make sense? Either way you need to know your spool capacity - spk with Weston! Cheers

In reply to Post #10
Agree Karlos - I've always thought this! Hence never relying on rotation (I always lose count anyway) and using wraps to ascertain more accurate distance. The calculator link does work though and like all things its not the end of the world if you 'back' slightly over than anticipated - better to overfill slightly than underfill IMO . . .

Thinking about it and to your point maybe it is a constant - ie a single bail arm revolution on a tight line still retrieves a constant 107cms (or whatever) but at the start of spool filling rotates the current spool diameter more times - the line rotates around the spool less the more it fills . . ?

In reply to Post #12
You obvs did GCSE and not 'O' Level . . .

Your Tournies (on a standard spool) hold 330M of 0.35mm - on this basis 330M of 0.33mm will be UNDERFILLED

Type in the top box 0.35 and 330 in the bottom box - now type in whatever diameter you want in the lower top box and it will tell you the length of line required in that diameter to fill the same spool (330 / 0.35 is the 'constant')

0.33mm = 371.21M of 0.33 to fill same spool
0.43mm = 218.63M of 0.43 to fill same spool

etc

You savvy?

My days 😂😂, I'm more confused than ever!!

Think I'll revisit this loaded with caffeine with my work brain engaged, might get a more accurate result!!

Thanks for helping though bud 👍

In reply to Post #16
Post / PM me when you've ascertained the capacity / dia rating on the spools you have - once confirmed I'll do the calcs for you no probs! Cheers

In reply to Post #14
@Belch
Thinking about it and to your point maybe it is a constant - ie a single bail arm revolution on a tight line still retrieves a constant 107cms (or whatever) but at the start of spool filling rotates the current spool diameter more times - the line rotates around the spool less the more it fills . . ?

I think you've hit the nail on the head there mate. You're right
The distance travelled by the bailarm (line roller) is the distance that's relevant, not the diameter of the spool being wound onto....

I buy a roll of 100mm line in say 15lb maxima for every spool I want to fill.
Wind that on and then just wind the line I want on top.
If most spools take 300m then it's only going to take 200m of “decent” line to fill it up.
Too mAny headaches any other way.

In reply to Post #19
With mono thats fine as its relatively cheap - prob is with Fluro is its expensive - and 200M is on the cusp of too much wastage / too little spooled with your method (depending on the range plus emergency backer you are willing to fish) . . . this is made worse by bulk spools or really expensive median sized spools (eg PB Ghost Dragonfly) which is 400M / £75 so you def need to be able to split it 50/50 or worst case over 3x rods (only ever using at short range) accurately to avoid wastage / underfilling . . .as well as not having to reverse spool which is unnecessary and negates all line prep / spooling in the right direction / line twist!

In reply to Post #19
The way i done it was bought a cheap digital calipers and some cheap line the same thickness as the good line say 0.35mm.

Loaded the spool from empty to full with the cheap line.

Set up some distance sticks and removed 250m of line.

Measured the diameter of the spool with line on, wrote this down,

Loaded other spools with the same cheap line until the diameter was the same.

Then i knew all spools would have exactly 250m of line.

I then store this in notes on my iPad, so for all my reels i know the diameter i need for 250m of line for various line diameters and spools.

This may seems like a faff, but I change my line at least once a year, and i keep my reels for ages and only really change if they are getting worn out.

P.S. I used to be an aircraft engineer so get very anal about measurements etc.

In reply to Post #21
Matching backing line diameter with intended mainline diameter def helps simplify the practical element of this problem. . . however no need for timely line twist creation - just work it out from the calculator app - simples!

My question is how do you spool up with TAPERED main-line accurately without having to guess / reverse / use a spare spool . . . . . .answers on a postcard!

In reply to Post #20
It's not too much as once it's worn you can reverse it even if you are at the lake.

The easiest method by far is to use another spool.
Or buy a line counter and hook that onto the rod and wind it through until you get the measurement you want.

How I said to do it is how I did it when I spooled up with x line.
I bought 3 spools of it and only had a little left over on each spool.

This way worked for me..

How much do we as anglers waste over the course of a year
I'm certainly not going to worry about a few quid extra on one shot spools.

In reply to Post #18
You were right the first time.

The only thing constant is the distance the bailarm travels which will always be further than amount of line going onto the reel. The diameter of the spool is changing so the amount of line being loaded onto it will change as the spool fills up.

It's only a small amount but on smaller spools it can make a difference(3.14 x the difference in depth)

I have tried counting the handle rotations but it never seems to be the same for me. I always prefer the spare spool method but have also used the distance sticks too & use a couple of sets. One for the backing & one for the line. Thankfully it only needs to be done once as the backing stays on my spools forever.

Unlike Belch, I prefer to under fill my spools on my big pits as it helps prevent wind knots - especially with braid.

The MOST important thing in all of this is making sure that you load line off the manufacturers spool with a pencil through it (spinning) & any line coming off a reel spool is done with the bail arm open. This will help prevent any excessive twist.

In reply to Post #22
Fill spool with tapered line.
Fill rest of spool up with backing to preferred fill level.
Remove backing onto distance sticks.
Remove tapered line onto different set of distance sticks
Load backing from distance sticks.
Load tapered line from distance sticks.

I have got 9 spools I need to redo before the spring & am dreading it. Loads of new braid with a different diameter to my usual stuff as well as reversing some braid on existing spools. One of the most boring tasks ever...

The Weston 5000t deep spools take 460 metres of 0.35mm line, so basically wind your 200 metres of Kontour on, fill the spool with the backing line.

Then remove only the backing line leaving the Kontour on the spool and top up the spool again with a second lot of backing line attached to the Kontour and then wind all that onto your 2nd spool so the backing goes on first followed by the Kontour. If it's not right, too much or too little backing, just wind it back again and readjust the backing line with a good guesstimate.

Then put that first lot of backing you had and removed back onto the empty spool and then add your other spool of 200 metres of Kontour.

For multiple spools more than 2, once you have the required amount of mainline on a spool, you then only have to keep topping up the spool with backing line and winding just that backing line onto all the spools you have, except one which you will fill by winding on the backing line with mainline that you pre measured on your first spool. Then for that spool you just emptied, add the pre measured backing line you should have done earlier then top up with mainline. You could easily do 3 spools in 15 minutes.

There is no need to go walking about on playing fields using measuring sticks etc, we are anglers, not ramblers.

The best way to remove line is, get a plastic bottle, preferably with sides that curve inwards like the 750ml coke bottles. Drill a hole in the cap that is big enough to take a long bolt. Put a big washer on the bolt and thread it through the hole from the inside of the cap, add another big washer and then a nut and tighten it up, stick the bolt in a drill with the cap screwed back onto the bottle.

Tie the line to the bottle, slowly start the drill and once the line is biting into the bottle and not slipping, go "full bore" with the drill and it takes seconds at 3000+rpm to remove the line. And when your done, keep the cap with bolt for another day, The caps are all same size and fit any plastic bottle as a rule.

In reply to Post #26
Good for two reels but still does not negate reverse spooling on the third - unless your willing to leave 200M of redundant expensive mainline on a spare (4th) spool and repeat the process . . .

In reply to Post #27
Course it works on 3 spools or as many spools as you want, by filling one spool with the correct amount of mainline, you then measure out 3 lots of backing line by topping up that spool and just removing the backing line for two of them. Put one lot of backing line on a spare spool and top up with mainline line, that is one spool done. Then transfer from the first spool to the second, backing line with mainline attached, that's two spools done and also empties that first spool. And then you just wind on the third backing line you have precut and top up with mainline and that is the third spool done.

Nothing could be simpler.

It's only line, just buy bulk spools and the heck with what's left, it's peanuts compared to the other costs and more vital than the latest rod/reel/Fairbrass endorsed stuff.

In reply to Post #1
You said you've got 2 extra on the way which implies you have others your using at present.
Wind the line off 1 your presently using onto anything giving you the spare spool you require to load your new one, then load the old line back onto your spool...sorted

In reply to Post #24
Thanks, reverted back to my original thinking

I have used line weight before when doing this, I know the weight of an empty manufacturers spool and then see how many grams it goes down by.
Then take the same amount for the next spool, but it's a faff and not mega accurate

I've also used the distance sticks method, but after getting in a mess with braid once I don't like that method anymore.

When using the playing field/grass combing technique be aware of stones/mole hills. When I loaded my CM90 a few years back one rod (retrieving the line) was tougher. I figured line had somewhere whipped around a bit of grass so just leant into the rod and pulled the line to get it through. Unfortauntelyr, the line had cut into some dirt until it was against stone. When I got the last 50 yards back to me and the line ran through my fingers onto the spool I could feel the abrasions :(

In reply to Post #30
I think the Weston spools have a much higher capacity so won't work.

So I think I'm down to two options:

1. Load one spool up with the cheap stuff counting the turns, then take half onto the other spool - so if 300 turns is a full spool, do 150 onto the other. Thing is I won't know how much space this.leavea for the fluoro, this could be more accurate with Belch's calculator/help

2. Reverse load up both spools (fluoro then cheap line) and take it down the field to 'rotate'.

Like mentioned before, once the backing is on it'll never come off and I'll always be able to respool with 200m shots in the future

This thread is hurting my head.

Not as useful and scientific as others but here's what I did and why.

Flouro casts like a bag of spanner's so perfect spool filling didn't overly concern me. I had the old line still on the spools, so I roughly worked out what I would need to remove and stripped off line onto distance sticks - then reloaded with Flouro.

I did the same with 2nd spool removing the ish wraps I needed to load up 200m.

First spool looked cock on 2nd spool could have done another 20 yards but less than half hour and more Flouro on the spool than I'd ever be able to cast.

As others have said I can't get my head round handle counts given the spool diameter is constantly changing.

Google line spool calculator and buy yourself a line counter. I've got a Berkeley one which I use. Little bit of math and a tenner no need to trek over a field or use wrap sticks putting on and then reversing hundreds of yard of line

In reply to Post #28
@Zack - totally understand the method but you're always going to have a one spool with the mainline on the bottom of the spool . . so you're either retaining this for the future / binning or reverse spooling on the last spool - which with fluro is arguably an expensive mistake and just adds twist

@55 - That is usually the method I use in reality (the last time I stripped mono for fluro on filled spools rather than spare ones) and its arguably easier if the backing line and new mainline are the same diameter . . .if its 200M of new line (of the same dia) then simply remove 200M in wraps (55 wraps) and spool on the new line . . .

However - if you want to be accurate with mixed line dias / backers / mainline (and don't want to mess around reverse spooling and twisting up line unnecessarily) then the calculator and a bit of basic maths makes it easy - I've just done it with some new 0.40 mainline on spools that take 300M of 0.35 - the 0.40 is on 250M spools but will fill the reel spools at 230M leaving an excess of 20M . . . .no probs / no backer required.

However if I wanted to be tight (the line is £30 a spool!) and only use 125M to use on two reels (which is fine as its for use on a small lake) I can work out EXACTLY how much backer I need in whatever diameter (in this instance 137M/150yds/37.5wraps of 0.35) which I can reel on directly as backer and then fill the rest of the spool with 0.40 mainline safe in the knowledge that I'm using exactly 125M . . . . .simple!

In reply to Post #36
>>>@Zack - totally understand the method but you're always going to have a one spool with the mainline on the bottom of the spool . . so you're either retaining this for the future / binning or reverse spooling on the last spool<<<<

No you are not going to end up with a spool with mainline at the bottom, it gets backing line attached and wound onto an empty spool, backing first followed by the mainline. And I have been doing this for years and I don't get line twist and is a commone practice to fill spools like that.

Twice now I have mentioned it gets wound onto an empty spool, what is so hard to understand?

In reply to Post #37
No need to get the *rse m8 - I totally understand what you are saying - however you are ignoring what I'm saying (presumably because you don't have the bandwidth) You ARE reverse spooling on the last reel spool - which whilst a legitimate method is for nods IMO (tin hat on lol )

Why anyone would want additional line twist with brand new line is beyond me . . . .not so much of an issue with braid / thinner diameter mono - but def an issue with most heavier gauge mainlines / expensive fluro specifically . . . . . . . . .if the OP / You / Terry Hearn himself wants to reverse spool I really don't care - just helping the forum understand you can negate this by understanding the spool capacity and using a simple calc app and a bit of basic maths . . . .

Tried to do the maths and gave up (thanks for the offer to help Belch).

So toddled off to a field this morning after loading them up in reverse. All sorted and twist removed as best as I could winding it back in, I got quite a bead on too 😂😂

Cheers for all the advice 👍👍