Hi I saw a video on this where someone said,possibly df, the make up of it but cannot remember where i see it.. Anyone know the breakdown? 20% fishmeal rings a bell..
Thanks
Tom

In reply to Post #1
Not to sure on the makeup. But did have a quick sniff as it were at the Big One tackle show. And I would say it was defo a fishmeal bait with a Squid and octopus type label. If that helps.

Hi, mate,I don't use mainline, I order my boilies direct from the manufacturer, but it just so happens I was in a tackle shop the other day, and there was a few lads talking about the iso fish. I picked bag up and had a look, to see what the fuss was about, and read the ingredients on the back, which I have to say was an interesting read, if I remember correctly the fish meal content was stated at 10%, I hope this help's 👍👍👍

In reply to Post #3
10%. Oh dear.

In reply to Post #4
Carp love bread more...

In reply to Post #4
This EU labelling is really showing up some companies for what they really are isn't it. Calling a bait a fishmeal based bait but it only containing 10% fishmeal is a disgrace if true imo.

In reply to Post #6
This EU labelling is really showing up some companies for what they really are isn't it. Calling a bait a fishmeal based bait but it only containing 10% fishmeal is a disgrace if true imo.

I thought they also had a ruling that if labelled as fish the main ingredient had to be fish, if that's true wth is the iso bit, isomerised everything maybe

In reply to Post #6
The bait game ain't regulated. They can call it what they want..

The only reason half these company's list there ingredients is they have to if they want to sell in Europe.

In reply to Post #8
Indeed they legally can. It's whether they should or not that i was questioning

In reply to Post #7
Aren't most if not all proteins left handed on this planet. Calling it an iso, just to make it sound special is pushing the truth envelope a tad too far imho.

I'm guessing a bit but I reckon that if FM is the dominant ingredient then they can say it's predominantly a fishmeal bait. To us it's defo not a proper FM but if all the other ones are less than 10% then it is. Still bloody wrong though

In reply to Post #7
Fish is not the main ingredients though.

From the pack- full fat soya 30%, pasta flour 20%, potato protein 15%, fishmeal 10%,micronized maize meal 7.7%, soya bean meal 6.3%, heat treated crushed rape seed 6%,egg products 5%....

24.30% crude protein.

In reply to Post #12
Stroll on, that's a bit strong calling it a fishmeal bait.

In reply to Post #13
Nobody would buy if they said soy based.

In reply to Post #6
Best thing the eu has ever done, and it makes for some entertaining reading. For the price mainline ready's (haven't seen freezer packaging) are maybe the funniest of them all.

Oh wait, their freezers are in ready made now as well, not? Anybody has a bag of cell laying around?

In reply to Post #12
That was my point if you re read 👍

Iso Soya if they abide by the main ingredient rule

I used that emoji as a laugh because of what people will probably assume from Soya, personally I don't have a issue with it in bait, semo either!

In reply to Post #12
Unbelievable! I wonder what that is costing them per KG to knock out.

In reply to Post #16
Does it say soya isolate, or full fat soya, ? Soya and semo have things to add to a bait, but I thought we had moved on from that type of bait. 24% protein is not bad, if it's all biologically convertable, what we don't know, and it's crucial is what is the attractor package.

In reply to Post #12
Wow ! You don't need much more reason than that to start thinking about making up your own mixes. It's £55 for 5kg for what is little more than a carrier bait. If it works, then it's definitely a triumph of the attractors over the actual base mix ingredients !

In reply to Post #19
When I first saw it advertised, I thought that it contained Fish Protein Isolate. Silly old me 😂

ISAW Semo............in shops now 👍

So I was in AD earlier and looked at cell. Same ingredients minus the fishmeal and first 4 ingredients upped in % full fat soya 33%



And in essential Cell 39% full fat soya!!!

In reply to Post #22
Wow:P

Tbh, fished with the grange (plus milky toffee) back in the day, then with activ8, and also with some ready's, salmon and shrimp, and did really well on all. So, not knocking them, but it's just not worth it for what is in those baits, unless you believe in magically activating and fermenting and more magic which isn't listed anywhere. But i guess most will come to the same conclusion, right

(ok, maybe i shouldn't have said that about grange/activ8, i do believe they had some proper extra's in them, not what people make them out to be, but very potent nevertheless)

In reply to Post #23
Activ 8 best they did. Fish loved the boilied ham flavour

In reply to Post #24
Nope, proper Grange with strawberry ade and hookbaits soaked in Nash's strawberry oil palatant. If only I had a hot tub Time Machine.....

Probably one of the most successful bait companies over the last couple of decades. Let's face it, we are in an era where, say, 80% of anglers don't know jack **** about bait, Mainline do it for them. Like them or loathe them their baits catch fish, you could argue popularity, etc but they produce the goods

I think one thing to consider, they have never really been knocking out what you could call and HNV milk protein costly bait, Acitv 8 was not loaded with fish meal. I suppose on reflection there is some learning because “all these crap” ingredients are catching fish. Now whether it's an enzyme or whatever they use they cracked a code a long time ago for me and made a bait that is super attractive to carp. I would be thinking why is it so good because you could fish them along side any other bait and I would put my money on them to catch

How many people now think the HNV theory is a load of bollox

In reply to Post #26
I honestly think and have done for a long while now. Mainline have got their liquid attractors working as the catalyst for their success. I also think that whilst the base mixes (on paper it appears?!?) are relatively basic. They also complement the liquid food package superbly.

Around 10 or so years ago, a friend of mine had a very successful summer/autumn campaign making his own Cell boilies. His motives for making his own bait were purely financial and he was cutting the ready made base mix 50/50 with Maize meal to keep the cost down. It was around then, that I realised the power of the bait was predominantly the liquid attractor as he was using at the recommended inclusion levels.

For all the lads who say, oh it's sawdust, breadcrumbs etc, they don't know how the baits work and I certainly don't, but when you consider that with some research you can find additives that make a relatively simple mix easier to digest, make it very attractive on multiple levels and cheap. I always thought they used alpha amylase in the liquid to convert some starch to maltose making the bait softer and ineffective in shelf life format but after lots of research from my own bait ideas I wouldn't be surprised if they are using something else, a digestive aid as well as a major olfactory trigger.

In reply to Post #27
I completely concur. In my opinion, they've found a straightforward formula that is effective and likely serves as the foundation for much of their product range. Their ability to utilize cost-effective ingredients has enabled them to allocate substantial resources to marketing efforts.

Considering the health benefits of fermented foods for humans, as well as their allure, including mildly processed foods like cheese and yogurt, it becomes clear why these foods are so enjoyable to consume. It's hardly surprising that nature and wildlife have a similar affinity for them.

I don't know anything about mainline baits and commercial baits in general, apart for few pop up's pots (less than 10 pots, indeed) I bought only 1 trigga ice 5 kilos bag for my first cassien's trip l, just to have with me something the carp may already had eaten.
But, every bait maker that has began with a basic mix and then tried to add more complex ingredients inside the concoction know well that isn't to go high on protein ingredients, whether fish protein or milk protein isn't important, that makes a really good baits.

More than 1 time I had come to a good simple bird food bait (just to name one kind, may be a 50/50 or others) that catch really well, than try to improve the bait with ingredients (may be liquid or not) to get a more complex and nutrient bait just to get only a drop in carp in front of the camera. It cost me some carp that's for sure, but it's a learning curve and a part of the pleasure of the baits making, and we have to remember that we can learn always something news, it's a growing process. Now I have some base mix (no one have fish meals or high protein milk in it) that I trust.

I think the company as mainline, Nash, ccmoore (just to name a few) from a commercial point of view (they have to maximise their profits) they have to make a bait that catch carp with the cheapest ingredients. For me they have a base mix that works and makes little change, 10% fish meal or few grams of liver, shrimp, krill or whatever you want in it and work with liquids to give them a label.
I'm pretty sure that if mainline take off the 10% fish from the bait in discussion and put 5%semo/5%maize or only one of the both in its place, the bait caught the same amount of carp.

The question is, have Mainline ever made a completely $h1t bait ? They've chopped and changed but are still best-sellers, is that down to history or results ?
It'll catch.

In reply to Post #31
There's ones that didn't stay around long (CP2000, NRG, Hybrid, Fusion, etc) but I think that's partly because they were competing with Grange and the different Activ8 baits.

It's not like people that make "proper" HNV baits with "proper" ingredients ever bring out a sh*t one (cough, NB All Season Mix )

In reply to Post #28
It was posted on here that Phytase was the ingredient in the original Grange and as mentioned you can bet the same is used in all of their baits. I was interested to see a while ago that they now sell active shelf life baits, seems like they have now taken it to another level because when they brought out the first shelf life hookers I thought, makes sense to keep a pot of those in the carryall, they were utter garbage in comparison to the freezer baits so it tells you something, or it did me back then

You are onto something, what, I'm still not sure (for the hundredth time lol) but I have rolled a bit of their stuff in the past and combinations with other bases too and it does make a soft bait, up the levels of activator and it is softer still. Looking at the base ingredients I would say it reacts more with carbs than proteins.

Sugars? lol, I think they are highly digestible too

In reply to Post #31
Fusion, smelt like cat piss.

In reply to Post #33
Phytase is certainly a useful additive with iirc the absorption of minerals etc? If they do use amylase, I've experimented with it a lot and yes it does make a cereal type baits soft. Having done more research (I like doing research lol) there is a limit to the amount of simple sugars carp should consume before they end up in a diabetic like state so the dosage rate could be critical to making a successful bait. There's something else that I've dabbled with, an organic acid that vastly increases the absorption of lipids and starch and also has the ability to act as an olfactory trigger but it's very bitter, so adding a sweet liquid would counteract that and make what is a pretty ordinary feed much more palatable and nutritional. It's all very much
ifs, buts and maybe's but perhaps food for thought.

In reply to Post #35
Out of interest Lincs, with the amylase did the baits go white after a while?

The deeper you read the more you find out, I can't be arsed to be honest but it goes more down the route of making the feed highly digestible and based on a carps intestine if makes sense to give them something that they can REALLY utilise as oppose to just attract and that's what they may be providing for me

In reply to Post #36
Yeah, they turn real quick. Mostly wild yeast utilising the maltose I reckon and therefore creating a much bigger signal to back up the sweet taste. Over the years I became increasingly convinced that the movement of enzymes within a bait can actually give off a albeit faint electro signal that fish home in on....

In reply to Post #35
In relation to phytase and also other enzymes, you could also just use an active corn steep liquor as a bait soak. Lactobacillus Plantarum and various other strains can break down phytic acid ( an anti - nutrient found in grains, nuts etc ) thus releasing locked in phosphorus and other minerals. They also break down sugars and proteins too. I've never used any of the Mainline Activators. Are they an active liquid in themselves in as much as they need to be refrigerated / vented ?

In reply to Post #38
Good post. From my own experience, bacterial breakdown is a much slower process that using straight enzymes so yes you probably would get a reaction but perhaps not quick enough to make a big enough difference. Could be wrong with that though. With regard to the activators, they are shelf life with no issues which lead me towards having amylase in

In reply to Post #39
Yeah, if the activators are shelf life then they are most likely enzyme based 👍 And definitely the live bacteria will take a lot longer to work it's magic and as a soak on finished boilies would only penetrate the outer layer. I've currently got 5 litres of cracked maize soup lacto fermenting which I'm going leave for about 4 weeks. Good things to come 😁

Something else that got me onto amylase, and it's very loosely based is that everyone mentions Terry hearn chewing his tigers, has anyone ever made the link that saliva is attractive to carp yet it's make up is mostly water, apart from the inherent salivary amylase in pretty big amounts?

In reply to Post #38
I believe that was the key liquid ingredients in the Grange, part 1 and 2. CSL and Pyhtase with the latter used for activating the CSL.

The activators do not need to be in the fridge or require any venting so to add to the confusion it could be just reacting with what's in the base, carbs?

Then water. How do you activate a shelf life bait!

I believe they recommend air drying their freezer baits

Been discussed many times

Mirage baits were selling some very interesting CSL products

A simple test would be to make some ready break to a thickish consistency with warm water then add some activator and gauge any reaction once stirred in, should turn very runny is amylase is present.

In reply to Post #41
Gonna be hearing " Hawk Tuah " echoing across the carp lakes of England 😂😂

In reply to Post #45

In reply to Post #42
Maybe the shelf life bait has already undergone it's reaction with amylase or whatever and then dried to prevent further activity, then as soon as the water kicks in it's active again?? Who knows, not me but fun to speculate.

In reply to Post #47
Same as

I remember ordering Grange CSL and parts 1&2 from a local tackle shop (remember them lol).

On a couple of occasions when collecting it I was told that the base mix had arrived but the separate box of 1&2 wasn't here. In the end it transpired that they had exploded in the packaging en route and the Post Office would no longer carry it via their delivery system as it was happening frequently.

There was actually a cartoon in an early Carpworld showing a guy trying to hold shut a door with something foaming up behind it and forcing its way out with the caption “ Active enzymes be buggered, I'm not going back in there!”

In reply to Post #32
I wouldn't say Hybrid (in your list) can be categorised as “didn't stay around long.” I first used it in 2014 and im still on it now. Although this year its no longer available in shops it is direct from mainline. 11 years is a decent run for a bait.
No idea what's in it but it caught me a lot of carp home and abroad.