If your line snaps and a carp is left trailing a barbed hook in its mouth how easy can it discard it? Is it basically stuck until it is next caught or can carp get rid of them after some time?
Just curious as I am thinking of switching to micro barbs, but the only thing putting me off is carp being unable to get rid of them in the event of the line snapping.
Just curious as I am thinking of switching to micro barbs, but the only thing putting me off is carp being unable to get rid of them in the event of the line snapping.
In reply to Post #1
they can get rid of micro barbs very easy and has now been proven and people are realising micro barbs cause less mouth damage to
they can get rid of micro barbs very easy and has now been proven and people are realising micro barbs cause less mouth damage to
In reply to Post #1
A couple of years ago I got snapped off floater fishing in weed using a Super Specialist to 12lb mono. The fish was caught a few months later with my hook and 6" of hooklength still attached.
Whilst I think they can often get rid of them, it's not always the case.
A couple of years ago I got snapped off floater fishing in weed using a Super Specialist to 12lb mono. The fish was caught a few months later with my hook and 6" of hooklength still attached.
Whilst I think they can often get rid of them, it's not always the case.
In reply to Post #3
I hope you claimed the catch as your own.
I hope you claimed the catch as your own.
In reply to Post #2
Disagree Gerry, the amount of dead fish removed from snags whare I live with rigs and leaders still attached suggests they are not the easy to get rid of. Also from this evidence an even bigger problem is lead clips not dropping the lead as the tail rubbers are being pushed on to hard. People seem to think it's acceptable to do this and even tie them on to prevent the lead dropping on the cast when they use a pva bag/ stick . Also the very large club lake complex over the road from me went barbless only a few years ago and now sees less snagged fish and less mouth damage. Sadly carp angling is now full of inexperienced people that haven't got a clue about fish care and many seem to resort to pulling for a break as soon as they snag a fish rather than report it so the bailiffs can get the boat out to free the fish.
Disagree Gerry, the amount of dead fish removed from snags whare I live with rigs and leaders still attached suggests they are not the easy to get rid of. Also from this evidence an even bigger problem is lead clips not dropping the lead as the tail rubbers are being pushed on to hard. People seem to think it's acceptable to do this and even tie them on to prevent the lead dropping on the cast when they use a pva bag/ stick . Also the very large club lake complex over the road from me went barbless only a few years ago and now sees less snagged fish and less mouth damage. Sadly carp angling is now full of inexperienced people that haven't got a clue about fish care and many seem to resort to pulling for a break as soon as they snag a fish rather than report it so the bailiffs can get the boat out to free the fish.
In reply to Post #5
I think the damage question is something that will go on forever and for me its more about the rig and how hard you bully the fish. However a barbless hook is always going to be more likely to come out (I don't mean in an actually landing a fish scenario, I've never noticed any difference to landing rates). I know what id prefer to get hooked in my finger as well
I think the damage question is something that will go on forever and for me its more about the rig and how hard you bully the fish. However a barbless hook is always going to be more likely to come out (I don't mean in an actually landing a fish scenario, I've never noticed any difference to landing rates). I know what id prefer to get hooked in my finger as well
In reply to Post #6
Agree , sadly carp angling is made easy for the lazy barbed hook bolt rig pub chuck angler ,sit back with a few tins .
Agree , sadly carp angling is made easy for the lazy barbed hook bolt rig pub chuck angler ,sit back with a few tins .
In reply to Post #7
All about sense. Fish responsibly and barbed hooks aren't an issue. Barbless cause more mouth damage during the fight imo with them slipping and moving. When it comes to unhooking then barbed is harder and more potential for mouth damage but when you know how to unhook them properly they don't cause any more than a barbless would.
I've seen more mouth damage on runs waters with barbless rules than waters with barbed hooks allowed.
All about sense. Fish responsibly and barbed hooks aren't an issue. Barbless cause more mouth damage during the fight imo with them slipping and moving. When it comes to unhooking then barbed is harder and more potential for mouth damage but when you know how to unhook them properly they don't cause any more than a barbless would.
I've seen more mouth damage on runs waters with barbless rules than waters with barbed hooks allowed.
In reply to Post #8
Quote "Barbless cause more mouth damage during the fight imo with them slipping and moving" not the case with the large club over the road from me, this is a very large club and the decision to go barbless wasn't taken on a whim but is proving successful. They also carry out regular rig checks and offer tutorials.
Quote "Barbless cause more mouth damage during the fight imo with them slipping and moving" not the case with the large club over the road from me, this is a very large club and the decision to go barbless wasn't taken on a whim but is proving successful. They also carry out regular rig checks and offer tutorials.
What prevents hooks being ejected is the weight or tension on them, the lead still on the lead clip, the feeder still attached to the line, what was termed a fixed lead or fixed rig.
Although fixed rigs are banned, the 'new' fixed rig is those badly used items of tackle and ignorance.
If the Mainline breaks, if the lead attachment can slide off the line, then as long as there is no other weight on it the hook can be ejected; however a metre of leadcore is enough weight to stop it being ejected.
If the fish gets snagged, there is tension on the line, preventing the hook being ejected. With 15 or 18lb Line being able to take roughly 4 times its breaking strain in water, a fish is going to have to exert 60lb of thrust to break it.
If you fish with those items of tackle, then a barbless hook may be better, but as pointed out barbless slip and cut causing more damage.
Personally I'd rather fish safely, WITHOUT leadclips, using a run ring and lead that can slide off any broken line, and a micro barb hook
Although fixed rigs are banned, the 'new' fixed rig is those badly used items of tackle and ignorance.
If the Mainline breaks, if the lead attachment can slide off the line, then as long as there is no other weight on it the hook can be ejected; however a metre of leadcore is enough weight to stop it being ejected.
If the fish gets snagged, there is tension on the line, preventing the hook being ejected. With 15 or 18lb Line being able to take roughly 4 times its breaking strain in water, a fish is going to have to exert 60lb of thrust to break it.
If you fish with those items of tackle, then a barbless hook may be better, but as pointed out barbless slip and cut causing more damage.
Personally I'd rather fish safely, WITHOUT leadclips, using a run ring and lead that can slide off any broken line, and a micro barb hook
In reply to Post #10
I've not fished lead clips for many years, always use running rigs now. Barbless hooks slipping and cutting is debatable and I believe long shank hooks do more damage. The majority of mouth damage I believe is caused by poor hook hold and poorly constructed rigs and poor angling while playing a fish.as I've said few anglers today actually test and understand the mechanic's of the rigs they use and I'm convince the majority just copy what they see on the net rig wise. The lakes surrounding me are solid with weed now but plenty still fish chods with barbed hooks and cast out to stress they have no chance of playing and landing the fish from.
I've not fished lead clips for many years, always use running rigs now. Barbless hooks slipping and cutting is debatable and I believe long shank hooks do more damage. The majority of mouth damage I believe is caused by poor hook hold and poorly constructed rigs and poor angling while playing a fish.as I've said few anglers today actually test and understand the mechanic's of the rigs they use and I'm convince the majority just copy what they see on the net rig wise. The lakes surrounding me are solid with weed now but plenty still fish chods with barbed hooks and cast out to stress they have no chance of playing and landing the fish from.
In reply to Post #5
Do those members of that lake normally snog their fish
Do those members of that lake normally snog their fish
In reply to Post #11
Goose,
I know we don't always agree on everything, but I'm with you on this.
Years ago, back in the 1990's I played with helicopter setups (with the original leadcore fly line and naked) in weed and had a massive loss rate compared to inline and pendant setups. Hookpulls, line breaks, lack of indication all convinced me to avoid helicopter setups if possible.
When I started fishing Earith I switched almost exclusively to run rings, either as a bolt rig with tight lines or running leads with slack lines.
Barbless hooks were the rule, so I made sure my rigs were efficient, line aligners on Carp-R-Us Nailers. I lost one or two fish, to hookpulls, one at the net, one after a few minutes as it hit the reeds. The same rig caught minutes later.
These same rigs with barbed hooks worked on Nazeing, Alton, Ardleigh and others effectively.
I did try on a small water with curved hooks and no shrink tubing, and lost fish, yet go back to the line aligner and hooked and landed fish.
Rigs have become fashionable, media, magazines, internet, forum etc.
Goose,
I know we don't always agree on everything, but I'm with you on this.
Years ago, back in the 1990's I played with helicopter setups (with the original leadcore fly line and naked) in weed and had a massive loss rate compared to inline and pendant setups. Hookpulls, line breaks, lack of indication all convinced me to avoid helicopter setups if possible.
When I started fishing Earith I switched almost exclusively to run rings, either as a bolt rig with tight lines or running leads with slack lines.
Barbless hooks were the rule, so I made sure my rigs were efficient, line aligners on Carp-R-Us Nailers. I lost one or two fish, to hookpulls, one at the net, one after a few minutes as it hit the reeds. The same rig caught minutes later.
These same rigs with barbed hooks worked on Nazeing, Alton, Ardleigh and others effectively.
I did try on a small water with curved hooks and no shrink tubing, and lost fish, yet go back to the line aligner and hooked and landed fish.
Rigs have become fashionable, media, magazines, internet, forum etc.
In reply to Post #1
Perhaps we should also consider the resident wildlife as well as the carp.
I recently rescued a moorhen that had a hook through the skin above its beak ( front shield) and the barb was preventing it coming out. They can be a pest but I don't think any of us would want to see one have a lingering death hung up in a tree.
Perhaps we should also consider the resident wildlife as well as the carp.
I recently rescued a moorhen that had a hook through the skin above its beak ( front shield) and the barb was preventing it coming out. They can be a pest but I don't think any of us would want to see one have a lingering death hung up in a tree.
In reply to Post #14
Comes back to being responsible though doesn't it. You get stuck in a tree you either get it out or contact a bailiff to report it. Last thing you do is pull for a break. Barbed or barbless, leaving hanging rigs or snagged up rigs is irresponsible and you should do your utmost to retrieve what you've lost instead of leaving it.
Comes back to being responsible though doesn't it. You get stuck in a tree you either get it out or contact a bailiff to report it. Last thing you do is pull for a break. Barbed or barbless, leaving hanging rigs or snagged up rigs is irresponsible and you should do your utmost to retrieve what you've lost instead of leaving it.
In reply to Post #15
I agree with you about calling the bailiff about a rig in the tree, that may have a problem of its own.
Take Nazeing as an example, I let the bailiff know I put a rig into a tree on the island. LVF probably won't bring a boat over for 1 rig. There may be a specific date for water maintenance.
That responsibility is missing, I retrieved a lot of rigs from trees above and below water at Nazeing, I've retrieved a few from my current syndicate, in fact I can't think of a water where I haven't and some have had a dead creature attached from birds to fish.
I also know about the joys of birdlife picking up and getting hooked or tangled, swans, ducks, coots, even a grebe, and my concern, despite my annoyance at the bird, is always getting it back safely.
Barbed or barbless in this case make little difference, as we go back to my point about tension on the line, the bird is pulling against the line, and holding the hook in place.
I agree with you about calling the bailiff about a rig in the tree, that may have a problem of its own.
Take Nazeing as an example, I let the bailiff know I put a rig into a tree on the island. LVF probably won't bring a boat over for 1 rig. There may be a specific date for water maintenance.
That responsibility is missing, I retrieved a lot of rigs from trees above and below water at Nazeing, I've retrieved a few from my current syndicate, in fact I can't think of a water where I haven't and some have had a dead creature attached from birds to fish.
I also know about the joys of birdlife picking up and getting hooked or tangled, swans, ducks, coots, even a grebe, and my concern, despite my annoyance at the bird, is always getting it back safely.
Barbed or barbless in this case make little difference, as we go back to my point about tension on the line, the bird is pulling against the line, and holding the hook in place.
In reply to Post #1
Ive found carp somehow get rid of micro barbed hooks whilst they have been resting in the net for a few minutes. Not sure how they do it, but ive been unable to remove the rig whilst in the net so left it till it was out on the mat and by then he had somehow managed to unhook himself.
Perhaps its the waters i fish but in 30 years i could count on one hand the amount of times i've found another rig in the carp i've caught.
Ive found carp somehow get rid of micro barbed hooks whilst they have been resting in the net for a few minutes. Not sure how they do it, but ive been unable to remove the rig whilst in the net so left it till it was out on the mat and by then he had somehow managed to unhook himself.
Perhaps its the waters i fish but in 30 years i could count on one hand the amount of times i've found another rig in the carp i've caught.
In reply to Post #17
I was thinking of asking this as a separate thread, I've noticed the nearly all my fish drop the hook in the net after I've got everything sorted prior to lifting from the water, I m using a hinge stiff with Korda choddy's size 4 barbed hand sharpened and everyone seems to drop the hook in the net. Heli on leadcore and even after a hard fight... strange
I was thinking of asking this as a separate thread, I've noticed the nearly all my fish drop the hook in the net after I've got everything sorted prior to lifting from the water, I m using a hinge stiff with Korda choddy's size 4 barbed hand sharpened and everyone seems to drop the hook in the net. Heli on leadcore and even after a hard fight... strange
In reply to Post #17
I was thinking of asking this as a separate thread, I've noticed the nearly all my fish drop the hook in the net after I've got everything sorted prior to lifting from the water, I m using a hinge stiff with Korda choddy's size 4 barbed hand sharpened and everyone seems to drop the hook in the net. Heli on leadcore and even after a hard fight... strange
I was thinking of asking this as a separate thread, I've noticed the nearly all my fish drop the hook in the net after I've got everything sorted prior to lifting from the water, I m using a hinge stiff with Korda choddy's size 4 barbed hand sharpened and everyone seems to drop the hook in the net. Heli on leadcore and even after a hard fight... strange
Last year in France i was using size 4 kranks on a ronnie and 2 of the fish i caught spat the hook in the net. This year i was using size 4 muggas on a ronnie and had no problems at all.
When I first bought my place there were only two of us fishing it and we both suffered from indications from fish trailing tackle.
As time went on and there were more anglers several of us suffered from having our mainline bitten through by pike, this resulted in more trailing tackle. I introduced a barbless hook rule and although the incidence of mainlines being bitten through continued, there were never any prolonged periods of trailers. Proof enough for me that barbless hooks are ultimately safer for the carp should the worst happen.
I'll also add that although barbless hooks have now been used exclusively for seven plus years, the mouths of my fish are immaculate.
No tears or ripped mouths.
A couple of my members are on the forum and could confirm this.
As time went on and there were more anglers several of us suffered from having our mainline bitten through by pike, this resulted in more trailing tackle. I introduced a barbless hook rule and although the incidence of mainlines being bitten through continued, there were never any prolonged periods of trailers. Proof enough for me that barbless hooks are ultimately safer for the carp should the worst happen.
I'll also add that although barbless hooks have now been used exclusively for seven plus years, the mouths of my fish are immaculate.
No tears or ripped mouths.
A couple of my members are on the forum and could confirm this.
In reply to Post #21
One of them being me, and Andy is spot on - I haven't seen any mouth damage on any fish that I have caught, or on any fish that someone else has caught. My hooked to landed ratio is the same using barbless hooks at Andy's place as it is on another water I fish that insists on micro barbed hooks only; no difference whatsoever.
One of them being me, and Andy is spot on - I haven't seen any mouth damage on any fish that I have caught, or on any fish that someone else has caught. My hooked to landed ratio is the same using barbless hooks at Andy's place as it is on another water I fish that insists on micro barbed hooks only; no difference whatsoever.
In reply to Post #22
I was fishing Rainbow back in 2004 when I caught a fish at night. I went out in the boat with a head torch on. Just as I thought the fish was nearly ready for netting I watched it swim head first into a sunken bush to shed the hook and swim off. As a follow up to that, on a club lake I fish that suffers from cut offs due to mussels, they discovered that fish were using a certain bush to shed the rigs possibly in the way I have explained. They left the bush in the water so the fish could continue to use it. Over the years I've also had numerous fish shed the hook once in the net that were hooked using barbed or micro barbed hooks..
I was fishing Rainbow back in 2004 when I caught a fish at night. I went out in the boat with a head torch on. Just as I thought the fish was nearly ready for netting I watched it swim head first into a sunken bush to shed the hook and swim off. As a follow up to that, on a club lake I fish that suffers from cut offs due to mussels, they discovered that fish were using a certain bush to shed the rigs possibly in the way I have explained. They left the bush in the water so the fish could continue to use it. Over the years I've also had numerous fish shed the hook once in the net that were hooked using barbed or micro barbed hooks..
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