We all know a good flavour can make a bait better.
But do you think the opposite is possible ? (A flavour render a good boilies useless)
I have experienced interesting reaction from the fish recently, and would want to know your experience on that.
But do you think the opposite is possible ? (A flavour render a good boilies useless)
I have experienced interesting reaction from the fish recently, and would want to know your experience on that.
Essential oils sat around on a tackleshop shelf spring to mind. 
In reply to Post #1
A proven, good flavour can become unattractive at the wrong or higher levels.
Also the chemical make up can also alter the taste of the bait, making it less palatable for the carp.
A proven, good flavour can become unattractive at the wrong or higher levels.
Also the chemical make up can also alter the taste of the bait, making it less palatable for the carp.
In reply to Post #1
It's a good thought, and a “hot topic” of late
I think as a single you can get away with a lot. As a food bait, pending on the bait make up and said flavours it makes sense to make them more palatable than offensive, the big question, define offensive, there are a hell of a lot of variables in carp fishing and that's what causes the confusion for me
Pending on the variables bait is a pretty simple thing when you think about it, just massively over complicated by carp anglers
As a bloke once said to me years ago, you will see how good something is when you take it out
It's a good thought, and a “hot topic” of late
I think as a single you can get away with a lot. As a food bait, pending on the bait make up and said flavours it makes sense to make them more palatable than offensive, the big question, define offensive, there are a hell of a lot of variables in carp fishing and that's what causes the confusion for me
Pending on the variables bait is a pretty simple thing when you think about it, just massively over complicated by carp anglers
As a bloke once said to me years ago, you will see how good something is when you take it out
In reply to Post #3
I know a water were if you use a squid flavour (the old Solar one, or others, as they generally have a thing in common: they are on the alkaline side of the ph scale)
You can stay for a long (long!!!!) time behind your rods without any action, were the exactly same bait without this flavour produce run after run.
Even playing with the level don't solve the problem.
I have in mind the old dynamite bait fluoro pop-up: the pink one the squid) produced nothing, were the yellow ones (pineapple) was a killer bait, and on a water 600m farer, the pink was a very good bait....
What cause this great difference between waters, after all a carp is a carp and they have the same taste preference or can detect the same signals to find his food ?
I know a water were if you use a squid flavour (the old Solar one, or others, as they generally have a thing in common: they are on the alkaline side of the ph scale)
You can stay for a long (long!!!!) time behind your rods without any action, were the exactly same bait without this flavour produce run after run.
Even playing with the level don't solve the problem.
I have in mind the old dynamite bait fluoro pop-up: the pink one the squid) produced nothing, were the yellow ones (pineapple) was a killer bait, and on a water 600m farer, the pink was a very good bait....
What cause this great difference between waters, after all a carp is a carp and they have the same taste preference or can detect the same signals to find his food ?
In reply to Post #4
KISS keep it simple stupid, apply this to rigs.
KISS kepp it subtle stupid, apply this to bait.
This was said to me a very long time ago buy a very old but successful angler, but it's all to easy to get sucked in by the hype around rigs and even more so bait but fact is bread with virtually no smell and sweat corn with little smell both catch a huge amount of fish.
KISS keep it simple stupid, apply this to rigs.
KISS kepp it subtle stupid, apply this to bait.
This was said to me a very long time ago buy a very old but successful angler, but it's all to easy to get sucked in by the hype around rigs and even more so bait but fact is bread with virtually no smell and sweat corn with little smell both catch a huge amount of fish.
In reply to Post #5
That's interesting
A while ago now, I knew a lad who had over 30 captures in a year on a very tricky deep water using those Dynamite squid and octopus pink pop ups, weird smell at the time those
That is very Interesting about the same basemix and a different flavour works. Could have been hammered on the squid?
Put some citric acid in it and see what happens would be my first starting point if you think it is PH related. I would try squid hook-baits with a high level of citric for example
Might just be a preference of the fish but then that opens up a whole new can of worms lol. Stupid question, what is the lakes Ph if you think it is Ph related
I guess this could be under the banner of why we change baits, you find a world beater, take it elsewhere and it's a slow burner!
That's interesting
A while ago now, I knew a lad who had over 30 captures in a year on a very tricky deep water using those Dynamite squid and octopus pink pop ups, weird smell at the time those
That is very Interesting about the same basemix and a different flavour works. Could have been hammered on the squid?
Put some citric acid in it and see what happens would be my first starting point if you think it is PH related. I would try squid hook-baits with a high level of citric for example
Might just be a preference of the fish but then that opens up a whole new can of worms lol. Stupid question, what is the lakes Ph if you think it is Ph related
I guess this could be under the banner of why we change baits, you find a world beater, take it elsewhere and it's a slow burner!
In reply to Post #7
The water haven't been hammered on squid to my knowledge.
This water is really alkaline, ph around 8,5.
Acidic flavours or ingrediants work really well.
Methink that flavour are just a thing that create an investigation , and have nothing to do with palatability.
The water haven't been hammered on squid to my knowledge.
This water is really alkaline, ph around 8,5.
Acidic flavours or ingrediants work really well.
Methink that flavour are just a thing that create an investigation , and have nothing to do with palatability.
In reply to Post #8
Ph difference is the key here. Can't remember where I read it but a difference of 3 seems to be effective.
Ph difference is the key here. Can't remember where I read it but a difference of 3 seems to be effective.
In reply to Post #8
Step back a few decades when Ph was everything then
On the basis of chemo reception, I agree about flavours, I was thinking stupidly high levels in bait
Sounds like a ph experiment to me then, I would be very interested to hear your results if you do, we could learn a lot
Step back a few decades when Ph was everything then
On the basis of chemo reception, I agree about flavours, I was thinking stupidly high levels in bait
Sounds like a ph experiment to me then, I would be very interested to hear your results if you do, we could learn a lot
"We all know a good flavour can make a bait better."
Do we??? A good bait doesn't need a flavour.
Do we??? A good bait doesn't need a flavour.
In reply to Post #1
When I lived in Southampton I fished the itchen for the carp and I did notice certain flavours don't work and certain ones worked very well,I had lots of carp with numerous boilies covered in krill liquid and even a piece of squid in arma mesh glugged in krill also had a 22lb pike on a boilie glugged in krill yet as soon as I tried for example nash squid powder(was a few years ago) nothing zilch nada yet tried a dynamite tiger nut boilie glugged in krill.....caught one.
Maybe it's to do with the ph or even the fact the river was almost running into the brackish stretch as there was a road in between the two stretches.
When I lived in Southampton I fished the itchen for the carp and I did notice certain flavours don't work and certain ones worked very well,I had lots of carp with numerous boilies covered in krill liquid and even a piece of squid in arma mesh glugged in krill also had a 22lb pike on a boilie glugged in krill yet as soon as I tried for example nash squid powder(was a few years ago) nothing zilch nada yet tried a dynamite tiger nut boilie glugged in krill.....caught one.
Maybe it's to do with the ph or even the fact the river was almost running into the brackish stretch as there was a road in between the two stretches.
In reply to Post #11
I feel a bit queasy saying this but I agree with you.
I feel a bit queasy saying this but I agree with you.
In reply to Post #11
Fishing the BM1 with 3ml of JB plum and 2ml butt ringer. A proven combination on many baits and lakes.... I couldn't buy a bite on it at Orlitts.
Simply removed the flavouring and went with just the basemix and had bites every week after!
Fishing the BM1 with 3ml of JB plum and 2ml butt ringer. A proven combination on many baits and lakes.... I couldn't buy a bite on it at Orlitts.
Simply removed the flavouring and went with just the basemix and had bites every week after!
In reply to Post #1
We all know a good flavour can make a bait better.
But do you think the opposite is possible ? (A flavour render a good boilies useless
Baits are usually flavoured for the angler, NOT the fish.
Just as an example, Mainline baits, what flavour is Cell? Or Activ8?
I reckon there are no liquid flavours involved, just the natural ingredients smells.
I have found that there are some flavours that can improve a bait, but I personally don't think it is always the flavour, but sometimes the flavour carrier or solvent.
While this flavour carrier may be attractive, there are some that I think are repellent, on introduction, but over time become acceptable.
Anglers often 'overload' a flavour. Even within recommended levels there are some flavours that on introduction can be left alone, I found a particular strawberry flavour that the fish ignored until it had been in the water a day or two. The same for a cheese flavour that the carp wouldn't touch to start, although chub loved it.
I played with Nutrabaits Trigga base mix when I was making my own bait. Liver Elite, Sweet Cajouser improved the bait, got increased interest and catches over the standard Trigga.
We all know a good flavour can make a bait better.
But do you think the opposite is possible ? (A flavour render a good boilies useless
Baits are usually flavoured for the angler, NOT the fish.
Just as an example, Mainline baits, what flavour is Cell? Or Activ8?
I reckon there are no liquid flavours involved, just the natural ingredients smells.
I have found that there are some flavours that can improve a bait, but I personally don't think it is always the flavour, but sometimes the flavour carrier or solvent.
While this flavour carrier may be attractive, there are some that I think are repellent, on introduction, but over time become acceptable.
Anglers often 'overload' a flavour. Even within recommended levels there are some flavours that on introduction can be left alone, I found a particular strawberry flavour that the fish ignored until it had been in the water a day or two. The same for a cheese flavour that the carp wouldn't touch to start, although chub loved it.
I played with Nutrabaits Trigga base mix when I was making my own bait. Liver Elite, Sweet Cajouser improved the bait, got increased interest and catches over the standard Trigga.
I found in all my fishing that washed out baits really work best .
In reply to Post #16
Do you mean washed out or do you use the washed in procedure as popularised by Shaun Harrison.
There is a a big difference in my mind.
Do you mean washed out or do you use the washed in procedure as popularised by Shaun Harrison.
There is a a big difference in my mind.
In reply to Post #17
Big difference especially if fishing over a rancid lake bed.
Big difference especially if fishing over a rancid lake bed.
In reply to Post #15
Active 8 (the original) included a boiled ham flavour.
Active 8 (the original) included a boiled ham flavour.
In reply to Post #15
And cell obviously has some sort of coconut flavour, although word it that is there as a ringer to distract from what was really doing the work.
And cell obviously has some sort of coconut flavour, although word it that is there as a ringer to distract from what was really doing the work.
In reply to Post #14
Now that's fascinating
Low levels really in say a 6 egg mix,. 1ml per egg is hardly a repellant. One thing for sure there is a reason. Go with what I said earlier, brilliant on one water, slow on others. You could argue fish preferences, on the going bait, but, the fascinating bit, results from water to water can vary
Now that's fascinating
Low levels really in say a 6 egg mix,. 1ml per egg is hardly a repellant. One thing for sure there is a reason. Go with what I said earlier, brilliant on one water, slow on others. You could argue fish preferences, on the going bait, but, the fascinating bit, results from water to water can vary
Think you have answered it Frenchies, high alkaline lake with high alkaline flavour to my mind has cancelled the effectiveness of the flavour and why you have found acidic flavours & ingredients work.
I also wonder whether different qualities, age of flavours & colours have a bearing on taste & smell? The old Richworth colours I think used to be sweetened which I'd assumed was because the colouring was unpalatable?
I also wonder whether different qualities, age of flavours & colours have a bearing on taste & smell? The old Richworth colours I think used to be sweetened which I'd assumed was because the colouring was unpalatable?
I've played around for a few years with various flavour combinations and levels etc. The one thing that stood out to me was the best results came on a high quality bait with zero artificial flavour.
In reply to Post #15
If you think there are no flavours involved with activ8 or cell I might suggest a few rounds of nasa douching mate, heavy coconut flavour
If you think there are no flavours involved with activ8 or cell I might suggest a few rounds of nasa douching mate, heavy coconut flavour
In reply to Post #24
Forgive the question then, but if you bought the base mix, where is the flavour?
cell base mix
I'm sure that the coconut smell or 'flavour' comes from copra meal.
Again, go to Activ8 base mix, there is no flavour in the base mix.
Just because they have an activator, does not make it a flavour.
Forgive the question then, but if you bought the base mix, where is the flavour?
cell base mix
I'm sure that the coconut smell or 'flavour' comes from copra meal.
Again, go to Activ8 base mix, there is no flavour in the base mix.
Just because they have an activator, does not make it a flavour.
Found it, Cell Boilie Ingredients list, knew I had it somewhere:
Cooked Cereals
MilkProteins
Soya proteins
Maize
Rape seeds
Wheat
Pulses
Bird foods
Amino acids
Vitamins and Minerals
Egg
Antioxidants
Colouring and Sweeteners
No mention of flavours!
Cooked Cereals
MilkProteins
Soya proteins
Maize
Rape seeds
Wheat
Pulses
Bird foods
Amino acids
Vitamins and Minerals
Egg
Antioxidants
Colouring and Sweeteners
No mention of flavours!
In reply to Post #26
Knowing next to nothing about bait formulation I'm sure flavour doesn't have to be added via liquids and can be inherent in any ingredients used. That list is farely non discript? could the milk protein not be coconut milk powder?
Knowing next to nothing about bait formulation I'm sure flavour doesn't have to be added via liquids and can be inherent in any ingredients used. That list is farely non discript? could the milk protein not be coconut milk powder?
In reply to Post #26
it said eu permitted flavourings up til last year.
I promise you Nick cell has liquid flavour in iuts make up, smell the activator, its inside it.
The cell doesnt smell of coconut, it smells of coconut flavour, which if you've eaten fresh coconut, you know doesnt smell the same what so ever. copra meal isnt in cell. last time I checked neither were milk proteins so that label has changed some.
it said eu permitted flavourings up til last year.
I promise you Nick cell has liquid flavour in iuts make up, smell the activator, its inside it.
The cell doesnt smell of coconut, it smells of coconut flavour, which if you've eaten fresh coconut, you know doesnt smell the same what so ever. copra meal isnt in cell. last time I checked neither were milk proteins so that label has changed some.
In reply to Post #28
Mozzi is right, the flavour is in the activator ( for both cell and a8)
Its listed in first on the ingrediant list on the bottle: eu permitted flavour.
Mozzi is right, the flavour is in the activator ( for both cell and a8)
Its listed in first on the ingrediant list on the bottle: eu permitted flavour.
In reply to Post #28
Thanks for the clarification.
Thanks for the clarification.
Those ingredient lists are as much use as Anne Franks drum kit. All they are is, and understandably, the minimum requirement to pass the regs and not reveal too much.
Just like what Nash and Dynamite done, they listed things like apiculture bi-products, wheats, bakery bi-products and dried fruits which if mixed in the right levels together will make things like nectarblend and various other ready mixed feeds.
Just out of interest having never used it does the cell base mix have an inherent coconut smell ?
In reply to Post #31
Those ingredient lists are as much use as Anne Franks drum kit.... jesus i nearly fell off my chair, never heard that one before.
Those ingredient lists are as much use as Anne Franks drum kit.... jesus i nearly fell off my chair, never heard that one before.
In reply to Post #32
Two time dutch hide & seek champion (1943/44) your talking about there
Two time dutch hide & seek champion (1943/44) your talking about there
In reply to Post #15
The same for a cheese flavour that the carp wouldn't touch to start, although chub loved it.
Out of interest what was that cheese flavour? Do like a bit of chub fishing in the winter!
The same for a cheese flavour that the carp wouldn't touch to start, although chub loved it.
Out of interest what was that cheese flavour? Do like a bit of chub fishing in the winter!
In reply to Post #34
Not sure I'd use the company now, Nutrabaits Cheese Elite.
First chub I caught on it was 5lb2oz
Not sure I'd use the company now, Nutrabaits Cheese Elite.
First chub I caught on it was 5lb2oz
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