What's people opinion on the best spice flavours avaliable for single hookbait at the moment, that is unless someone has an old bottle of leaf spice ea kicking about 😁
In reply to Post #1
Save yourself the hassle and get some specialised hookbaits s3's 👍
Otherwise, Jay Rider at A-Baits did have some Ultraspice available, may have all gone tho
Save yourself the hassle and get some specialised hookbaits s3's 👍
Otherwise, Jay Rider at A-Baits did have some Ultraspice available, may have all gone tho
In reply to Post #1
Strangely I remember using that, must have been about 1985. Never found it to be particularly good.
Strangely I remember using that, must have been about 1985. Never found it to be particularly good.
In reply to Post #1
I always go for the real deal. Essential oils and powder spices are far superior than a flavour
I always go for the real deal. Essential oils and powder spices are far superior than a flavour
In reply to Post #4
So why does tutti fruit catch?
Nothing to stop you using real spices and eo's PLUS a complimentary flavour.......
So why does tutti fruit catch?
Nothing to stop you using real spices and eo's PLUS a complimentary flavour.......
In reply to Post #5
I can revert the question as well. Why do none flavoured baits catch?
I can revert the question as well. Why do none flavoured baits catch?
In reply to Post #6
The third question is... which catches more?
The third question is... which catches more?
In reply to Post #6
Name a bait with no “flavour”. Everything has a “taste”
Name a bait with no “flavour”. Everything has a “taste”
In reply to Post #8
Exactly
Exactly
In reply to Post #8
You know, just as all, that when one mentioned the word flavour and carp bait 95% thinks about a scent obtained from a liquid bought in a bottle called flavour.
You know, just as all, that when one mentioned the word flavour and carp bait 95% thinks about a scent obtained from a liquid bought in a bottle called flavour.
In reply to Post #10
But not all “flavours” are cheap chemically ones. Would you call Secret Agent (for example) a flavour? Chocolate Malt? Maple Cream? They may have smelled, but their success wasn't because they smelt to us of whatever they smelt of. And would a bait been better without them?
But not all “flavours” are cheap chemically ones. Would you call Secret Agent (for example) a flavour? Chocolate Malt? Maple Cream? They may have smelled, but their success wasn't because they smelt to us of whatever they smelt of. And would a bait been better without them?
In reply to Post #10
You will of course find plenty of the same chemicals in "flavours" as you find in essential oils and spices.
I don't believe that the fish can sense if those chemicals come from a laboratory or if they are isolated from a plant.
You will of course find plenty of the same chemicals in "flavours" as you find in essential oils and spices.
I don't believe that the fish can sense if those chemicals come from a laboratory or if they are isolated from a plant.
In reply to Post #6
Years ago I experimented a lot with various flavours. What I found was that some flavours were a waste of time and produced very little while other flavours produced lots of fish over and over again. Leaving out the flavour altogether produced very little but did produce the odd run.
The basemix was a fairly basic mix of Clo birdfood, Semo and a small amount of milk protein and brewers yeast. My sessions would be short either days or a night rarely both and the waters quite heavily stocked.
Make of it what you will, but I was and still am convinced that a good flavour on its own will attract carp, or perhaps more correctly provokes them to pick up our boilies. Note I said a good flavour as I have already said many did not provoke a response or very little of one.
Put one of those good flavours in a quality boilie and you have a bait that carp will take from the off and will continue to take. Take the flavour out of a good bait and yes it will catch but as quick and as many as it would with the flavour present.. not in my experience.
And for the original question re spice flavour, unfortunately I didn't try many and ultraspice was the only one I found to be really effective.
Years ago I experimented a lot with various flavours. What I found was that some flavours were a waste of time and produced very little while other flavours produced lots of fish over and over again. Leaving out the flavour altogether produced very little but did produce the odd run.
The basemix was a fairly basic mix of Clo birdfood, Semo and a small amount of milk protein and brewers yeast. My sessions would be short either days or a night rarely both and the waters quite heavily stocked.
Make of it what you will, but I was and still am convinced that a good flavour on its own will attract carp, or perhaps more correctly provokes them to pick up our boilies. Note I said a good flavour as I have already said many did not provoke a response or very little of one.
Put one of those good flavours in a quality boilie and you have a bait that carp will take from the off and will continue to take. Take the flavour out of a good bait and yes it will catch but as quick and as many as it would with the flavour present.. not in my experience.
And for the original question re spice flavour, unfortunately I didn't try many and ultraspice was the only one I found to be really effective.
In reply to Post #13
I will kind of echo that. I have definitely used some flavours that appear to be useless and others that seem to really work
I can remember using an hold hutchy flavour that smelt a bit like soap and we made it into a bird food boilie in the early 90s. Completely useless!
We then changed to a fruit flavour and added sweetners and it worked much better.
Looking back with an open mind, did the flavour make the difference, did the sweetener, who knows.
The soapy smelling flavour was rated by some of the locals back then but i seemed to struggle with it.
Tutti, it works
Aniseed it works
Certain creams work
Squid works
But many others do just not seem as good
I 100 percent believe that no flavour alone is going to turn you into a mega hauler and that you need more substance behind a bait long term. John baker can probably answer more in depth about flavours but I'd certainly never just rely on them
I will kind of echo that. I have definitely used some flavours that appear to be useless and others that seem to really work
I can remember using an hold hutchy flavour that smelt a bit like soap and we made it into a bird food boilie in the early 90s. Completely useless!
We then changed to a fruit flavour and added sweetners and it worked much better.
Looking back with an open mind, did the flavour make the difference, did the sweetener, who knows.
The soapy smelling flavour was rated by some of the locals back then but i seemed to struggle with it.
Tutti, it works
Aniseed it works
Certain creams work
Squid works
But many others do just not seem as good
I 100 percent believe that no flavour alone is going to turn you into a mega hauler and that you need more substance behind a bait long term. John baker can probably answer more in depth about flavours but I'd certainly never just rely on them
In reply to Post #1
There are a lot of people on here you have way more knowledge than me when it comes to bait ...but i did have a dabble at baitmaking in the early 2000's after being given a bottle of something by a proffessional flavourist to have a play with
nobody else was using it to according to the flavourist
for 2 seasons it took apart every lake in oxon and was used by people to get bait deals with other companys saying all fish were caught on their bait
I called it OLA365 but it was Fenugreek Oleoresin and Sqid n Octopus then the cat was out of the bag and every man and his dog were using it
There are a lot of people on here you have way more knowledge than me when it comes to bait ...but i did have a dabble at baitmaking in the early 2000's after being given a bottle of something by a proffessional flavourist to have a play with
nobody else was using it to according to the flavourist for 2 seasons it took apart every lake in oxon and was used by people to get bait deals with other companys saying all fish were caught on their bait
I called it OLA365 but it was Fenugreek Oleoresin and Sqid n Octopus then the cat was out of the bag and every man and his dog were using it
In reply to Post #14
I 100 percent believe that no flavour alone is going to turn you into a mega hauler and that you need more substance behind a bait long term.
Definitely agree with this, to be consistently successful, especially long term, a bait needs much more than a flavour not matter how good it might be. But for me using one of the proven flavours provides or at least enhances the initial attraction of a bait, after that taste and possibly nutrition extends the life of a bait, sometimes indefinitely.
But one thing I would say, as an amateur bait maker, over many years I have caught a lot of carp on single hookbaits, and I know this is your business so I'm trying to be tactful here, but despite trying lots of non flavour type additives and trying well know manufacturers product's (not yours admitttingly) I cannot find or make a single hookbait that produces more bites than my own overflavoured baits. Single baits are relying on attraction only and nothing I have used beats a good flavour in this situation.
Interesting, well to me at least, they don't work as well over bait.
I 100 percent believe that no flavour alone is going to turn you into a mega hauler and that you need more substance behind a bait long term.
Definitely agree with this, to be consistently successful, especially long term, a bait needs much more than a flavour not matter how good it might be. But for me using one of the proven flavours provides or at least enhances the initial attraction of a bait, after that taste and possibly nutrition extends the life of a bait, sometimes indefinitely.
But one thing I would say, as an amateur bait maker, over many years I have caught a lot of carp on single hookbaits, and I know this is your business so I'm trying to be tactful here, but despite trying lots of non flavour type additives and trying well know manufacturers product's (not yours admitttingly) I cannot find or make a single hookbait that produces more bites than my own overflavoured baits. Single baits are relying on attraction only and nothing I have used beats a good flavour in this situation.
Interesting, well to me at least, they don't work as well over bait.
I have used several spice attractors in my time and IMHO nothing comes close to Nutrabaits Techni Spice. This is the same blend that is used in their excellent Techni Spice Shelfies, which is probably the best winter time shelf life bait I have ever used. It truly is a marvellous attractor; not cheap but worth every penny.
In reply to Post #17
Ken, is techni spice a sweet spice or a spicy spice smell ?
I know your not involved with the latest Nutrabaits set up, but do you think your tried and tested version of the techni spice is the same as the current available version do you know ?
Ken, is techni spice a sweet spice or a spicy spice smell ?
I know your not involved with the latest Nutrabaits set up, but do you think your tried and tested version of the techni spice is the same as the current available version do you know ?
In reply to Post #18
A lingering spicy spice smell
A lingering spicy spice smell
In reply to Post #18
Smells like Christmas cake to me.
Smells like Christmas cake to me.
over the last few seasons I have played around quite a lot with certain flavour profiles in single hookbaits. The most successful one I have found was premier baits indian spice.
In reply to Post #21
Condensed milk and cinnamon
Condensed milk and cinnamon
In reply to Post #1
I'm biased, but I don't believe you will get better than Bait Bros for a traditional spiced EA flavour.
Can also tweak flavours to your specification.
Happy to help via PM.
Sam
I'm biased, but I don't believe you will get better than Bait Bros for a traditional spiced EA flavour.
Can also tweak flavours to your specification.
Happy to help via PM.
Sam
In reply to Post #18
Somebody once told me that Techni spice was a combination of sweet nutraspice and spice cajouser which I have used the latter with good success, considering the cajouser was black like tar I doubt it, techni spice is clear and the sweet nutraspice used to separate, again the techni spice does not, as I am aware. Sure Ken can confirm?
Somebody once told me that Techni spice was a combination of sweet nutraspice and spice cajouser which I have used the latter with good success, considering the cajouser was black like tar I doubt it, techni spice is clear and the sweet nutraspice used to separate, again the techni spice does not, as I am aware. Sure Ken can confirm?
In reply to Post #1
Why use a spice flavour when you can use real spice? Way better imo
Why use a spice flavour when you can use real spice? Way better imo
In reply to Post #24
Premier Milk Spice ....Perfect
Premier Milk Spice ....Perfect
In reply to Post #26
Why use a strawberry flavour when you could chuck in some strawberry's?
Why use a strawberry flavour when you could chuck in some strawberry's?
In reply to Post #25
nutrabaits told me many years ago a technispice recipe which was as you said the sweet nutraspice which is clear and a blend of sweet and spice cajouser which as you also say are a dark liquid
nutrabaits told me many years ago a technispice recipe which was as you said the sweet nutraspice which is clear and a blend of sweet and spice cajouser which as you also say are a dark liquid
In reply to Post #25
techni spice is clear
The UTCS The Techni Spice liquid I have got colour wise, is like a soy sauce, or weak cola brown, definetely not clear nowadays.
techni spice is clear
The UTCS The Techni Spice liquid I have got colour wise, is like a soy sauce, or weak cola brown, definetely not clear nowadays.
In reply to Post #28
Why make daft comments like that? They are clearly very different items
But Tbh, why use a flavour full stop.
Why make daft comments like that? They are clearly very different items
But Tbh, why use a flavour full stop.
In reply to Post #31
What's daft about it? You're saying that putting spices in a bait negates the need for a flavour. How about putting spices in PLUS a flavour that they find attractive? Surely thats better?
What's daft about it? You're saying that putting spices in a bait negates the need for a flavour. How about putting spices in PLUS a flavour that they find attractive? Surely thats better?
In reply to Post #32
Because adding spices is common in bait making? And adding real fruit isnt?
And imo no, adding both isn't.
Because adding spices is common in bait making? And adding real fruit isnt?
And imo no, adding both isn't.
In reply to Post #31
Ian, I am sure we have disagreed about the effectiveness of flavours before, but that was in feed baits which I can sort of understand even if I think you are missing out... but in single hookbaits do you really think spice powders will be as attractive as a good flavour in a single hookbait, which was the original question.
Ian, I am sure we have disagreed about the effectiveness of flavours before, but that was in feed baits which I can sort of understand even if I think you are missing out... but in single hookbaits do you really think spice powders will be as attractive as a good flavour in a single hookbait, which was the original question.
In reply to Post #33
Just my thoughts but one of the reasons flavours might be useful is because they consist of mostly very volatile components.
In any dryed meals used as boilie ingredients I assume most of the similar components that was originally there vanished along with the water during milling and drying.
.
So in theory the volatile compounds of the flavour might help make the food signal more complete and hence enhance attraction.
Most research show that a more complex food extract will be more attractive than any single component or even a simpler mix.
Try fishing sweetcorn vs maize flour balls or tigernuts vs tigernuts meal.
Just my thoughts but one of the reasons flavours might be useful is because they consist of mostly very volatile components.
In any dryed meals used as boilie ingredients I assume most of the similar components that was originally there vanished along with the water during milling and drying.
.
So in theory the volatile compounds of the flavour might help make the food signal more complete and hence enhance attraction.
Most research show that a more complex food extract will be more attractive than any single component or even a simpler mix.
Try fishing sweetcorn vs maize flour balls or tigernuts vs tigernuts meal.
In reply to Post #34
Absolutely mate. I really do rate real spice over flavours in everything I use. I used flavours for many, many years and only started playing with real spices a few years ago and the results speak for themselves. But I do like all of my baits to be based on a high quality, nutritional mix rather than the flavour carrier mixes which many use for single hookbaits so maybe that plays a big part in it?
Absolutely mate. I really do rate real spice over flavours in everything I use. I used flavours for many, many years and only started playing with real spices a few years ago and the results speak for themselves. But I do like all of my baits to be based on a high quality, nutritional mix rather than the flavour carrier mixes which many use for single hookbaits so maybe that plays a big part in it?
In reply to Post #33
Agree with those below, but if you are using the argument that just because its not common to use real fruit, it's not worth doing? Maybe we're missing out. Adding liquidised pineapple may be a starter, for example......
Agree with those below, but if you are using the argument that just because its not common to use real fruit, it's not worth doing? Maybe we're missing out. Adding liquidised pineapple may be a starter, for example......
In reply to Post #35
I'll take your word for it mate. I'm not really interested in the science and theory behind baits as such, I just like to tinker about with things and see what happens for myself. It works very well for me
I'll take your word for it mate. I'm not really interested in the science and theory behind baits as such, I just like to tinker about with things and see what happens for myself. It works very well for me
In reply to Post #35
I'll take your word for it mate. I'm not really interested in the science and theory behind baits as such, I just like to tinker about with things and see what happens for myself. It works very well for me
I'll take your word for it mate. I'm not really interested in the science and theory behind baits as such, I just like to tinker about with things and see what happens for myself. It works very well for me
In reply to Post #37
Maybe, not sure how well the bait would keep with fresh fruit in though?
Maybe, not sure how well the bait would keep with fresh fruit in though?
In reply to Post #37
Certain fruits, mashed up, do stimulate carp, same with vegetables. I think they loose there natural appeal when put inside a bait though, far better to make a fish, shrimp and fruit smoothie and let some chops drink in the goodness lol.
Remember organic acids found in fruits as well as the monosacheride fruit sugars are proven stimulatory agents for carp.
Certain fruits, mashed up, do stimulate carp, same with vegetables. I think they loose there natural appeal when put inside a bait though, far better to make a fish, shrimp and fruit smoothie and let some chops drink in the goodness lol.
Remember organic acids found in fruits as well as the monosacheride fruit sugars are proven stimulatory agents for carp.
In reply to Post #37
I'm sure you are on the wind up, but considering most fruit is 80-90% water it's not a clever idea.
I'm sure you are on the wind up, but considering most fruit is 80-90% water it's not a clever idea.
I did well on the Pete b mix years ago with no flavour just added cayenne pepper.
In reply to Post #42
Because?
Because?
In reply to Post #44
How much base mix are you having to use just to absorb water and make it roll?
How much base mix are you having to use just to absorb water and make it roll?
In reply to Post #43
It needed no flavour so I added cayenne pepper.
.
It needed no flavour so I added cayenne pepper.
.
In reply to Post #39
The science behind it is basically a massive amount of tinkering done systematically.
There is s lot of research showing that various spices can have great effect in bait and feed.
The science behind it is basically a massive amount of tinkering done systematically.
There is s lot of research showing that various spices can have great effect in bait and feed.
In reply to Post #42
Yeah but various fruit powders available, Nash have used em for years.
Not strictly boilie or even specimen carp fishign related but there was an old boy who always used to float fish on one of the canals near me for carp, bream, tench, whatever took his bait. he was old school with particles and always prepared his own, I remember him saying used to make up his bait on a Friday evening for the next weeks mid week sessions, and his recipe for hemp was 2 pint glasses of dry hemp with plenty of water covering it, 24 hours later replacing the water with clean stuff ( to avoid hemp scum ) about an inch covering the hemp, a lemon sliced in half ( half a lemon per pint dry ) and a big dollop of the cheapest honey he could get.
I have no idea if this prep is what made the difference but he never and I mean never wasn't top rod on the days he fished.
I think he might of been mental, he used to keep a rock hard old bit of parmesan rind in a butter tub with his hook pellets on it, and used spray painted ironmongery fixing such as brackets, hinges, or nuts and bolts for weights lol
Yeah but various fruit powders available, Nash have used em for years.
Not strictly boilie or even specimen carp fishign related but there was an old boy who always used to float fish on one of the canals near me for carp, bream, tench, whatever took his bait. he was old school with particles and always prepared his own, I remember him saying used to make up his bait on a Friday evening for the next weeks mid week sessions, and his recipe for hemp was 2 pint glasses of dry hemp with plenty of water covering it, 24 hours later replacing the water with clean stuff ( to avoid hemp scum ) about an inch covering the hemp, a lemon sliced in half ( half a lemon per pint dry ) and a big dollop of the cheapest honey he could get.
I have no idea if this prep is what made the difference but he never and I mean never wasn't top rod on the days he fished.
I think he might of been mental, he used to keep a rock hard old bit of parmesan rind in a butter tub with his hook pellets on it, and used spray painted ironmongery fixing such as brackets, hinges, or nuts and bolts for weights lol
In reply to Post #47
Not disagreeing with you chap, just saying I don't need science to tell me they work
Not disagreeing with you chap, just saying I don't need science to tell me they work
In reply to Post #48
I've said as much in another thread about an old boy who taught me about groundbait mixes back in the '70"s. Largely misunderstood at the time, . but I saw the results and took heed. Some people still don't understand what can be done to aid attraction without feeding fish to the point they no longer need to pick up your bait.
I've said as much in another thread about an old boy who taught me about groundbait mixes back in the '70"s. Largely misunderstood at the time, . but I saw the results and took heed. Some people still don't understand what can be done to aid attraction without feeding fish to the point they no longer need to pick up your bait.
In reply to Post #37
Given that pineapple contains bromelain this might not be a bad idea!
Given that pineapple contains bromelain this might not be a bad idea!
In reply to Post #28
the more I fish the less flavor I need, god did I bung some **** in years ago, remember richworth atomizer boillies , talk about overload
the more I fish the less flavor I need, god did I bung some **** in years ago, remember richworth atomizer boillies , talk about overload
In reply to Post #45
Just dont use liquid eggs 🤔
Plenty of ingredients you can make a boilie out of and not need liquid egg.......
Just dont use liquid eggs 🤔
Plenty of ingredients you can make a boilie out of and not need liquid egg.......
In reply to Post #46
It's an additive.
It's an additive.
In reply to Post #53
I don't use liquid egg anymore, but I certainly don't use liquids that are 90% water to hydrate the powdered egg.
I don't use liquid egg anymore, but I certainly don't use liquids that are 90% water to hydrate the powdered egg.
In reply to Post #55
You can very quickly over do it in terms of even the best natural hydros. quite simply because although they cannot be done you'll find the optimum inclusion level to be around 150ml per kilo. any more than that ad results don't improve. at least not if added pre-boiling.
Sometimes subtly it best, I've seen carp spook off of lumps of belechan in a fish tank, which is one of the most potent attractors you can use!
Can't say I blame them, my Nan was Singaporean and the kitchen was a no go area at times lol
You can very quickly over do it in terms of even the best natural hydros. quite simply because although they cannot be done you'll find the optimum inclusion level to be around 150ml per kilo. any more than that ad results don't improve. at least not if added pre-boiling.
Sometimes subtly it best, I've seen carp spook off of lumps of belechan in a fish tank, which is one of the most potent attractors you can use!
Can't say I blame them, my Nan was Singaporean and the kitchen was a no go area at times lol
In reply to Post #29
Similar to me mate, didn't hear about a sweat cajouser inclusion though
Similar to me mate, didn't hear about a sweat cajouser inclusion though
In reply to Post #30
Interesting about the UTCS Scaley, Is this a newer version then, the new Nutrabaits?
Interesting about the UTCS Scaley, Is this a newer version then, the new Nutrabaits?
In reply to Post #58
Scozza, Yes, it is the new nutrabaits product I've got. less than 6 months old.
Cannot comment on the old nutrabaits product as I never used it.
Scozza, Yes, it is the new nutrabaits product I've got. less than 6 months old.
Cannot comment on the old nutrabaits product as I never used it.
In reply to Post #59
Nice one pal
If I ever use the nutraspice and cajouser up I know where to look, funny really how we move on to other wonder stuff
Had a quick nosy on their site a few months ago now, will have another
Nice one pal
If I ever use the nutraspice and cajouser up I know where to look, funny really how we move on to other wonder stuff
Had a quick nosy on their site a few months ago now, will have another
In reply to Post #1
Jason Rider of A Bait has just released, in limited supply a blend of Hutchinsons Mixed Herbs and Hutchinsons Ultraspice.
Ive not smelt it but if your into spice flavours I reckon this would be amazing. Ultraspice is my absolute favorite flavour of all time. Mixed herbs, im sure most know of that flavours track record, although Ive never seen it such is its rarity.
Jason Rider of A Bait has just released, in limited supply a blend of Hutchinsons Mixed Herbs and Hutchinsons Ultraspice.
Ive not smelt it but if your into spice flavours I reckon this would be amazing. Ultraspice is my absolute favorite flavour of all time. Mixed herbs, im sure most know of that flavours track record, although Ive never seen it such is its rarity.
In reply to Post #61
Jays all sold out I think?
Jays all sold out I think?
In reply to Post #62
not surprised. Id imagine thats quite a decent flavour blend. Cant imagine he did a large production run ?
not surprised. Id imagine thats quite a decent flavour blend. Cant imagine he did a large production run ?
In reply to Post #61
Mixed Herbs one of Mr Hearns favourite flavours. I believe it went into the original Source bait.
Mixed Herbs one of Mr Hearns favourite flavours. I believe it went into the original Source bait.
In reply to Post #64
i hadnt heard that. Mixed with ultraspice, can imagine thats pretty special
i hadnt heard that. Mixed with ultraspice, can imagine thats pretty special
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