The kids wont remember but back in the early 90s the whole carp fishing industry entirely rejected hooks with bent shafts.
They were undoubtedly efficient but caused mouth damage due to the position of the eye relative to the bend of the hook. Taking an objective view of the modern patterns the industry (including Korda and Nash) has fallen back to manufacturing hooks that have compromised mouth care for hook-holds.
They were undoubtedly efficient but caused mouth damage due to the position of the eye relative to the bend of the hook. Taking an objective view of the modern patterns the industry (including Korda and Nash) has fallen back to manufacturing hooks that have compromised mouth care for hook-holds.
In reply to Post #1
This will probably cause some debate, i remember bent fly hooks and used them as soon as i heard about them, they were indeed a very good hooker but did cause damage and in the main were rightfully stopped being used.
There are some patterns that i think are problematic such as the long curved shank hooks yet others dont think so as they say they haven't seen evidence of it
This will probably cause some debate, i remember bent fly hooks and used them as soon as i heard about them, they were indeed a very good hooker but did cause damage and in the main were rightfully stopped being used.
There are some patterns that i think are problematic such as the long curved shank hooks yet others dont think so as they say they haven't seen evidence of it
In reply to Post #1
Not at all. The bent hooks of old are nothing like modern patterns, plus barbs back then we're considerably bigger
Not at all. The bent hooks of old are nothing like modern patterns, plus barbs back then we're considerably bigger
interesting debate coming up I think!
There are definitely some modern patterns that I wouldn't use and have seen cause extensive damage. Long-shank nailers for example, (Mugga pattern) are a no-go for me after seeing a mate double hook a big 30 through the bottom lip, then through the scissor....only way i could get it out for him was cutting the hook with pliers....fish was caught a couple of months later and there was a hole on the bottom lip exactly where he had hooked it.
There are definitely some modern patterns that I wouldn't use and have seen cause extensive damage. Long-shank nailers for example, (Mugga pattern) are a no-go for me after seeing a mate double hook a big 30 through the bottom lip, then through the scissor....only way i could get it out for him was cutting the hook with pliers....fish was caught a couple of months later and there was a hole on the bottom lip exactly where he had hooked it.
In reply to Post #4
Was it a barbless version?
Was it a barbless version?
In reply to Post #3
Their effect is the same. The eye and the bend of the hook in some modern patterns have the same alignment as those horrendous hooks of old. Whether the shank follows a curve or a bend makes no difference to the effect which is damaging in both cases. Bent hooks were replaced with the line-aliner, which created the same effect but straightened during the fight and so were safer.
Their effect is the same. The eye and the bend of the hook in some modern patterns have the same alignment as those horrendous hooks of old. Whether the shank follows a curve or a bend makes no difference to the effect which is damaging in both cases. Bent hooks were replaced with the line-aliner, which created the same effect but straightened during the fight and so were safer.
In reply to Post #5
Nope, barbed...although such was the way it had double hooked itself I don't think it would have made much difference.
I thought at the time the fish must have got snagged in a weedbed truth be told, (although my mate said not but it was 2am so I didn't know anything about it until he woke me up to help get the hook out) and the hook had pulled through the bottom lip then because of the long-shank had caught the scissors. The eye of the hook was then right up against the lip and the motion of the fight had caused it to tear...not nice to see.....but it is still swimming around now some 10 plus years later!
Nope, barbed...although such was the way it had double hooked itself I don't think it would have made much difference.
I thought at the time the fish must have got snagged in a weedbed truth be told, (although my mate said not but it was 2am so I didn't know anything about it until he woke me up to help get the hook out) and the hook had pulled through the bottom lip then because of the long-shank had caught the scissors. The eye of the hook was then right up against the lip and the motion of the fight had caused it to tear...not nice to see.....but it is still swimming around now some 10 plus years later!
In reply to Post #7
Reason I asked is
Someone else double stitched a mouth a couple of weeks ago and used a barbless
Last time I used a proper barbless I stitched a mouth similarly so if rules called for a barbless I will crush a barb if that's not acceptable I wont fish there.
Reason I asked is
Someone else double stitched a mouth a couple of weeks ago and used a barbless
Last time I used a proper barbless I stitched a mouth similarly so if rules called for a barbless I will crush a barb if that's not acceptable I wont fish there.
In reply to Post #6
If it worries you then use short shank hooks. You can use a short shank curved hook with some stiff shrink tube and get the same effect in a safe way.
If it worries you then use short shank hooks. You can use a short shank curved hook with some stiff shrink tube and get the same effect in a safe way.
In reply to Post #9
Like the range of short shank hooks from Korda marketed as Klor?
Like the range of short shank hooks from Korda marketed as Klor?
In reply to Post #6
I disagree, I remember the days of the old bent hooks and the damage they caused. I think it depends on the situation which they are used . I wouldn't use a Mugga for fishing locked up where you need to apply lots of pressure straight away as I've experienced mouth damage ,but in open water where you can let fish run then no issues whatsoever. Long shank curved hooks I've experienced double hooking but only with tench, so on a water with tench I won't use them. The old home made bent longshanks of old caused allsorts of damage in allsorts of situations, so to me that makes perfect sense that they are banned these days. We have so much choice now compared to back then there's a hook for all situations,without the need to bend (and weaken) them ourselves
I disagree, I remember the days of the old bent hooks and the damage they caused. I think it depends on the situation which they are used . I wouldn't use a Mugga for fishing locked up where you need to apply lots of pressure straight away as I've experienced mouth damage ,but in open water where you can let fish run then no issues whatsoever. Long shank curved hooks I've experienced double hooking but only with tench, so on a water with tench I won't use them. The old home made bent longshanks of old caused allsorts of damage in allsorts of situations, so to me that makes perfect sense that they are banned these days. We have so much choice now compared to back then there's a hook for all situations,without the need to bend (and weaken) them ourselves
In reply to Post #11
I have experienced double hooking with long shanked hooks and now only use medium and short shank curved hooks. Sometimes with a line aligner depending on situation and rig.
I have experienced double hooking with long shanked hooks and now only use medium and short shank curved hooks. Sometimes with a line aligner depending on situation and rig.
We all love our Carp, don't we?
When you look at the state of the mouths (or lack of
) of some of the fish I really feel bent hooks should be given a wide berth .
When you look at the state of the mouths (or lack of
) of some of the fish I really feel bent hooks should be given a wide berth .
In reply to Post #14
So by bent hooks what sort of pattern are you referring to? Muggas / curve shank or something more extreme? Some examples of ones folks think should be avoided would be good, if only to share some thoughts on how to avoid un-necessary mouth damage.
So by bent hooks what sort of pattern are you referring to? Muggas / curve shank or something more extreme? Some examples of ones folks think should be avoided would be good, if only to share some thoughts on how to avoid un-necessary mouth damage.
In reply to Post #15
"bent hooks" were basically long shank hooks which people bent mid shank . Think peoples issue with modern hooks are the curved longshank patterns , along with some of the newer patterns like the Korda klaw or whatever it's called.
"bent hooks" were basically long shank hooks which people bent mid shank . Think peoples issue with modern hooks are the curved longshank patterns , along with some of the newer patterns like the Korda klaw or whatever it's called.
In reply to Post #16
The klor is not that long,esp trighammers are longer.The klor is more like the gardner cvr hook
The klor is not that long,esp trighammers are longer.The klor is more like the gardner cvr hook
In reply to Post #16
There were also the “dog nobbler” patterns that were about twice the length of a b175, with a bend in the middle.
TBH a lot of the “carp” patterns are fly hooks anyway......
There were also the “dog nobbler” patterns that were about twice the length of a b175, with a bend in the middle.
TBH a lot of the “carp” patterns are fly hooks anyway......
In reply to Post #17
I know mate, I meant that as an example of the new patterns which aren't conventional that people are questioning aswell as the longshank curved patterns that have been around for a long time now
I know mate, I meant that as an example of the new patterns which aren't conventional that people are questioning aswell as the longshank curved patterns that have been around for a long time now
In reply to Post #19
In reply to Post #20
The use of both bent hooks and peanuts was completely stopped due to peer pressure via editorials in magazines. I wonder, what are the current mechanisms that will bring about a halt to dangerous practices or do the commercial enterprises already already have a cover over the stop button?
The use of both bent hooks and peanuts was completely stopped due to peer pressure via editorials in magazines. I wonder, what are the current mechanisms that will bring about a halt to dangerous practices or do the commercial enterprises already already have a cover over the stop button?
In reply to Post #21
Surely it was instigated by observation and real life experience. Tim Paisley didn't make it all up.
Surely it was instigated by observation and real life experience. Tim Paisley didn't make it all up.
In reply to Post #23
It's probably worth mentioning that he was a huge fan of the jrc 360 hooks that the klor, cvr, medium curve etc are based on, and those often get called bent hooks
It's probably worth mentioning that he was a huge fan of the jrc 360 hooks that the klor, cvr, medium curve etc are based on, and those often get called bent hooks
Can we get our terminology right. The original "bent hooks" were usually a long shank salmon fly hook( which were pretty long) severely bent in the middle by the angler using pliers. They did cause severe damage and were rightly banned by fisheries. The current crop of curved shank hooks by any manufacturer who's hooks I have seen don't come close to being "bent" hooks.
Having said that I won't use long shank hooks. I think it's something that needs watching, especially with the lamentable lack of ethics in modern angling.
Having said that I won't use long shank hooks. I think it's something that needs watching, especially with the lamentable lack of ethics in modern angling.
In reply to Post #25
I remember the old fly hooks very well, but i dont like the long curve shank hooks such as longshank nailers, the longshank muggas and old series 5 fox hooks.
The problems i saw weren't as bad as the bent fly hooks but were bad enough for me to stop using them, i have little experience of the newer curve style such as korda klor or garners cvr
I remember the old fly hooks very well, but i dont like the long curve shank hooks such as longshank nailers, the longshank muggas and old series 5 fox hooks.
The problems i saw weren't as bad as the bent fly hooks but were bad enough for me to stop using them, i have little experience of the newer curve style such as korda klor or garners cvr
Used the original bent hooks and then the big curved hooks, only fished them on 6 inch or less hook links and never had issues, it was very safe IMO.
The same can be achieved with shrink tube or preformed kickers these days and I still incorporate them in my fishing.
The same can be achieved with shrink tube or preformed kickers these days and I still incorporate them in my fishing.
In reply to Post #25
I did say that a little earlier
I did say that a little earlier
Double hooking is tricky. I can't really understand how it happens but my my experiences are that is is more likely to happen if:
- the carp are incredibly hard fighting (un caught 20's in Canada on Super Specialists that double hooked)
- or small carp dashing a around when played, especially in shallow water
- or with longer shanked/ curve shanked hooks
- or with a Ronnie on soft braid
I have never double hooked a carp on a wide gape, an HSR or a Chod rig.
- the carp are incredibly hard fighting (un caught 20's in Canada on Super Specialists that double hooked)
- or small carp dashing a around when played, especially in shallow water
- or with longer shanked/ curve shanked hooks
- or with a Ronnie on soft braid
I have never double hooked a carp on a wide gape, an HSR or a Chod rig.
In reply to Post #1
I used size 4 esp trig hammers in france this year as i was using big baits. First fish, 62lb, second 57lb, both double hooked, one in quite a messy way
My normal size 4 muggas went on and i had another 11 fish. not one had a funny hook hold.
Shame as the trig hammers look like great hooks
I used size 4 esp trig hammers in france this year as i was using big baits. First fish, 62lb, second 57lb, both double hooked, one in quite a messy way
My normal size 4 muggas went on and i had another 11 fish. not one had a funny hook hold.
Shame as the trig hammers look like great hooks
In reply to Post #30
I've had one fish on a Trig Hammer. A small common that double hooked. Like you I haven't used them since even though I liked the pattern.
I've had one fish on a Trig Hammer. A small common that double hooked. Like you I haven't used them since even though I liked the pattern.
In reply to Post #31
I can't understand how any long shanked hook
is deemed acceptable
Extend it with shrink tube ffs
Issue resolved
Why do tackle companies persist in reinventing the wheel
Surely ripping us off with a few sticks of shrink tube is more
profitable
I can't understand how any long shanked hook
is deemed acceptable
Extend it with shrink tube ffs
Issue resolved
Why do tackle companies persist in reinventing the wheel
Surely ripping us off with a few sticks of shrink tube is more
profitable
In reply to Post #24
Kamasan Carp Max was the very first medium curved shank marketed for the Carp market (Almost Identical to the Kamasan B110 Grubber Fly Hook pattern) - and boy did they fly off the shelves!
So much so that Drennan (Who own Kamasan) transferred the design and called it the ESP Curve shank for the new ESP Brand of the Drennan Group.
I've witnessed the double Hooking, mouth stitching also - a long time ago when using Fox series 5 think it was? Off memory there was another pattern renowned for doing it - Long Shank Nailer?
And they were a copy of the Kamasan B220 Black Nymph Pattern shape, but the B220 is medium wire and no were near as brutally made.
Kamasan Carp Max was the very first medium curved shank marketed for the Carp market (Almost Identical to the Kamasan B110 Grubber Fly Hook pattern) - and boy did they fly off the shelves!
So much so that Drennan (Who own Kamasan) transferred the design and called it the ESP Curve shank for the new ESP Brand of the Drennan Group.
I've witnessed the double Hooking, mouth stitching also - a long time ago when using Fox series 5 think it was? Off memory there was another pattern renowned for doing it - Long Shank Nailer?
And they were a copy of the Kamasan B220 Black Nymph Pattern shape, but the B220 is medium wire and no were near as brutally made.
In reply to Post #33
The hooks I mentioned are a further progression of the curve design, somewhere between a standard curve shank and a longshank curve, a key point being they have the eye directly in line with the point.
These are the hooks that seem to attract all the bent hook comments
The hooks I mentioned are a further progression of the curve design, somewhere between a standard curve shank and a longshank curve, a key point being they have the eye directly in line with the point.
These are the hooks that seem to attract all the bent hook comments
In reply to Post #34
I agree, I would not class any of the huge number of copy's of the original Carp Maxx pattern as problem hooks.
It's the true long shank ones that I've witnessed double hooking and stitching both lips together - not good.
~ It's a shame Kamasan don't make the B110 in bigger sizes than 10, as without the Carp Tax added they are £3.95 for 25!
I agree, I would not class any of the huge number of copy's of the original Carp Maxx pattern as problem hooks.
It's the true long shank ones that I've witnessed double hooking and stitching both lips together - not good.
~ It's a shame Kamasan don't make the B110 in bigger sizes than 10, as without the Carp Tax added they are £3.95 for 25!
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