Yesterday I was browsing AD in Leeds and as I enjoy both Carp fishing and match style fishing I noticed that Fox...and Fox Matrix...which is two branches of the same company sell a lead storage box pouch type piece of kit.

Same piece of kit...one aimed at carp anglers...one (with a clear lid on it so arguably a better product) aimed at match anglers.

Match variant £18.99

Carp variant £29.99

F.F.S really

Anyone else come across anything and bare faced as this ?

In reply to Post #1
Bulin t4 stove £28, trakker armolife £45

In reply to Post #1
There are loads of things like this. Many things can be found from alternative suppliers for cheaper, sometimes from other tackle companies (trakker/cyprinus springs to mind)
Ridgemonkey toaster and also bivvy light, Nash bivvy hooks can all be bought off eBay for cheaper. Then there's bait, companies selling cod liver oil for a tenner a litre when you can buy it from the shop for half that ,or belachan blocks for a fiver a piece because they've got a nice little bait company badge on the wrapping rather than the same ones from the Chinese supermarket for a couple of quid. Carp tax is everywhere

In reply to Post #1
Which one did you buy ?

Carp tax is not something you have to pay just know where to look as you have all proved

In reply to Post #4
I've already got the carp one in an older Fox FX variant and was just weighing up whether to get the Match style version for my method feeders etc....tbh the match version looked better than the carp one anyway.

In reply to Post #1
Where do you start? Loads of items come to mind where you're paying the carp tax. Makes me laugh that people will pay so much for a T shirt or cap because it's got the word wofte on it. I see Fortis are now selling a polarising filter for mobile phones - you can get the same thing off Amazon for a third of the cost. Ridgemonkey are another brand who seem to charge over the top prices - thing is, if people are willing to pay it, they'll keep doing it. You only have to stand in Johnson Ross for 20 minutes on a Saturday morning to see how some lads throw all their hard earned at stuff that's either over priced or not needed. But hey, that's up to them I guess.

In reply to Post #5
Carp fishing is one big rip off and a lot of it is poor quality gear reading on this forum some people just won't believe it if you look around there are the same items different badge a lot cheaper

Does carp tax not support the industry and help growth?
To note aswell, there is cheap alternatives to everything in live

In reply to Post #1
Prolly down to Nods not nodding so much, whereas there's loadsa people carp fishing now unfortunately, so the companies can charge what they like to a degree.

The green/camo phenomenon only came about due to necessity as it was cheap ex army gear that was strong, fitted the bill and most blokes were working class type chaps. Now they'll charge extra for muh camo. If Korda came out with a replica SAS smock and charged 300 large, it would fly off the shelves, no doubt.

In reply to Post #8
We didn't say cheap alternative we said the same thing but cheaper as I said a lot of people just won't see it making excuses for these companies sorry it's just one big rip off as long as people keep paying it will never change

Rhino beam V4 ( but the same for other models ) £25.99. eBay delivered for 11.99 . 115% carp tax

"hobby" tax happens with everything, not just carp angling ... Find an unbranded or less desirable brand version and it will always be cheaper

In reply to Post #12
absolutely

as long as there are people who will buy into (no pun intended) the whole 'branded' approach it will continue.

happens in everything - I know a taxi driver who repeatedly takes the mick out of VW Passat drivers as he drives his less expensive Skoda that he says is essentially the same car with a different shell / badge.

He does sometimes talk rubbish mind...

In reply to Post #9
If green is cheaper I always go for that. I always go for the non carp tax choice if possuble. Don't get me wrong I'll buy the best and pay the price. If it's worth it. I just don't like having my pants pulled down.

Carp tax is no different to golf tax

Carp tax at more than 100%....


Fox R series low chair £41.99
https://www.anglingdirect.co.uk/fox-r-series-guest-chair

Kampa low chair £19.99
https://www.winfieldsoutdoors.co.uk/kampa-sandy-high-back-low-chair/#344=1851?source=aw&awc=6953_1631468018_cb44bf22f0c4c26deb5a77af0e7331f1&utm_source=awin&utm_medium=affiliates&utm_campaign=ShopForward+CSS


These are the same chair... I bought both to be sure.... Yep, the green isn't as 'carpy' as the fox camo but their the same chair... You'll be offered one of these chairs if you visit my swim.

In reply to Post #16
Avid used to sell that chair for around £20 new

In reply to Post #17
Maybe but a few years back Avid wanted £40 for it.

In reply to Post #18
I'm pretty sure they were first to market with carp branded version so fair play to them

In reply to Post #8
Does carp tax not support the industry and help growth?
No it's to line the pockets of businessmen.
So I don't want to support the industry (line pockets ) and I certainly don't want growth in the industry, I'd rather it shrank and people bugger off and find some other hobby.

In reply to Post #20
And without profits, there wouldn't be innovation. You'd still be going to work on your pony mate and You'd still be plodding on with your fibreglass rods. Profits push the market and as a consequence things become cheaper as more competition steps in. Greed innovates...

In reply to Post #21
Not everything and everyone is motivated by profit. There's plenty of instances whereby someone has made something through pure necessity, then someone else thinks 'hmm, that's tidy', 'er mate, could you make me a set of those?'

Did Maddocks create the innovative hair rig because of profit?

In reply to Post #21
Innovation used to be something that the better anglers had, now you buy it off the shelf, that's assuming it is innovation and not some unnecessary toy or gizmo that attracts so many people to fishing rather than the true spirit of it.
I'd rather have inferior gear myself, it didn't stop most of us enjoying ourselves in the past, part of the joy was fettling and modifying to get the best out of what you had.

all this is irrelevant ... no-one forces anyone to buy it

In reply to Post #24
Worth talking about though if someone can save money and buy a similar product elsewhere without carp tax?

In reply to Post #25
yep, true

In reply to Post #9
So anyone fishing for species other than carp is a nod?

In reply to Post #6
This is the same with everything these days, some people are so concerned about their image especially regarding clothes, cars, shoes etc etc, they think it's important.
Charity shop for clothes and shoes, great bargains if you look
cheaper brands of cars are often a lot more reliable and cheaper to run

Lots of people enjoy buying gear for their hobby, and they feel better if the item they have is made specifically by a carp company and it is green. Carp tax provides for this want. Conversely, lots of people love a bargain, love solving tackle solutions themselves and enjoy finding something not produced for the carp market that does the job.

Both are fine, neither are wrong. This argument has been going on as long as this forum has existed.

I like a bit of both, but I am glad for the likes of Keith at MPS, people like him are the bedrock of our angling.

As was foreseeable the inevitable mass used tackle market is well underway as is every year but this migration is bloated thanks to the Covid-19 side effect of instant carpets flush with time but more relevant disposable cash by way of various tackle grants from the kind establishment. What I don't understand is why when purchasing new tackle these uptakers purchase top end gear as opposed to sensible priced items whilst dipping toes into a expensive hobby foray unsure of the potential longevity of its suitability or interest which leaves the question of just how well has the marketing and sales strategy of the carp trade is working b'coz it seems to be actually phenomenally successful but unfortunately shows a reflection of its sheer disrespect and failing to connect with it's genuine customer base who are being milked shamelessly too in a soulless dictatorship monopoly that ad lead the way.

In reply to Post #30
Is there a carp tax yes but when you think about this how many people get stuff for free. Companies have to recover that money so that drives up price a bit.

I've always wondered how much bait sponsored anglers get from companies and again that has to be recovered as businesses won't just write that money off.

Most of the stuff is imported from China so probably cost less then a third of what we pay in the end. In the end though if you can get it cheaper from somewhere else get that instead of the carp branded one

In reply to Post #31
hmmm....have to remember that the products are nearly always customised for that company and they don't produce the amount to get economies of scale like they would a normal camping chair version thats sold all over the world to multiple retailers. That's where the issue lies , BUT obviously you're paying a bit extra also for it to be a carp chair not a blue generic camping chair. I think the term carp tax is a bit over exaggerated.


caravan and camping industry UK = $9.68 billion roughly (generic blue chair)
recreational fishing industry UK =$ 1.4 billion roughly (carpy green branded same chair)

a lot more generic chairs will be mass produced vs the carp version. that's partly why prices are higher.

In reply to Post #31
The big companies spend a fortune on NPD and the big one - marketing!

This is what a big chunk of your purchase price is paying for. All the free videos on YouTube must cost a fortune to produce.

Companies like NGT and Cyprinus come along and just copy what the bigger brands do, just buying in bulk from China and selling it off cheap. They have tiny overheads compared to the likes of Korda, fox, Nash etc, hence the cheaper prices.

In reply to Post #32
I don't think the UK camping industry is worth almost a trillian dollars mate

In reply to Post #34
I think maybe he ment 9.68 billion. I'm pretty sure it's worth circa 10 billion to the UK economy on a yearly basis.

In reply to Post #20
I get that a slower growth would have been better for the angler. Then again ives always encouraged people as I'm passionate about maybe my own worst enemy.

In reply to Post #22
No is was Middleton for starters and they wanted to keep it a secret, besides the hair rig dates back before either of them. Maddock of cause wanted to profit from his effects hence he wrote a book. No rights or wrongs in it. Maybe inconveniences one way or another.

In reply to Post #35
Yes I've amended my bad lol

Then look at trout fishing, almost £1000 a rod is not unusual now.

Then salmon, and when you have recovered from that look at shooting !

The carp tax starts to look pretty low

In reply to Post #39
Surely carp tax isn't the price of an item, its the extra cost added by the fishing tackle industry to an ordinary item not designed by the fishing industry when it becomes carpy?

In reply to Post #39
That's not a very good comparison. Not too many working class types are casting a fly on the Dee are there?

Similarly, run of the mill shotguns for instance can be picked up relatively cheap, if you're going down the route of an Accuracy International rifle, you're not ganna pick up a fully spec'd out Ax308 for a packet of chips simply down to the craftsmanship that goes into making such a rifle.

In reply to Post #41
No. But I do have a sage salt #12 and tibor Gulf Stream I can't afford the holiday to use

Carp tax mainly annoys me when it's to do with an item that's not in their specialty. Powerpacks are a really good example of this. Specialized companies have been making these for years and they are significantly better quality than the carp branded ones, at a lower price point.

That being said I agree with what people have said on here about profits driving innovation. As a businessman I'm always skeptical when people talk about corporate greed, as I think there's a massive unappreciation for what those profits drive. Companies like Korda, Fox, Nash etc. have essentially created an established industry out of relative obscurity over the past 30 or so years. This industry now employs thousands of people, contributes to our economy and results in 'easier' adaption of 'good' angling for us all. All of that has happened because of the opportunity to make profit. I can see the other side of the argument that this has ruined fishing and that we were better in 'the good old days', nostalgia is a powerful thing.

In reply to Post #43
No problems here with people making money. You're correct that companies like Korda employ lots of people and put food on their table... awesome. The problem I've got is the likes of Korda putting 8 swivels in a packet, other companies are following suit.

Now the swivel thing could we'll be down to keeping prices below an unacceptable price point, similar to crisp companies not filling the bag up like yesteryear, instead, after two small handfuls of crisps, they're gone. This is all linked to inflation and the cost of living with only the wealthy being able to live a lovely life at the expense of their employees buy paying them peanuts. The rise of heads wages of companies from the 70's have gone stratospheric, what's it, running 300%+ of the average earner?

In reply to Post #44
If you look everything is starting to cost more now food, cars, houses / house building , consumer goods, national insurance, I'm sure there will be more stealth taxes

The current demands for raw materials / labour / shipping have pushed up the costs - Korda etc can't take that hit - they have to pass it on.

There are interesting times coming for the economy I'm sure

I had small hands when I ate crisps (I was a kid) so packets lasted longer😀

In reply to Post #44
300 times not 300% absolutely horrendous situation.

In reply to Post #44
Stop buying them?

Loads of options on Ebay, bank tackle etc. buy them in 50s, same as the expensive stuff, all Chinese, you are paying a massive premium for the brand and fancy packaging

Posted a while ago, i was looking at swivels on a Chinese website, think they were around around 2p (possibly 0.02p) depending on the bulk

People will eventually wise up and then the arse will drop out of the market

In reply to Post #47
And then all complain when the Chinese own all the world's best businesses, land, property and resources

In reply to Post #48
Oh

In reply to Post #46
Thanks for the correction 👍

From what I've just read, it ranges from anywhere between 200 times up to 900 times (Tesco's CEO).

In reply to Post #48
Does it matter if you buy the swivels from Bank Tackle or Korda if they are all made in Chi-na?

In reply to Post #51
It doesn't generate any revenue and subsequent taxes from profit, staff etc. for the country.
we are now just a little island that shares its name with a language who would starve to death if we pissed off the rest of the world

In reply to Post #52
Do you speak 'Great Britain'?

In reply to Post #53
No...



We English pay for Great Britain. It's like a soup kitchen for those lacking vitamin D and the Welsh

In reply to Post #52
Now if the swivels were made in the UK you'd have a point, but I don't think they are.
So save money on fishing tackle by buying from Bank Tackle (based in the UK) and you have more money to spend on other UK things.
Buy Korda and they'll spend it on advertising to attract more anglers, something I don't want.

In reply to Post #55
I don't mind more anglers young or old, when we pass on they are the future.

Clubs / syndicates have limits on members so don't understand that one

Korda were a small brand like bank tackle once upon a time and every business has ambitions.

Anyone for a new £300 scadle from ND Tackle a cradle with built in scales

In reply to Post #57
Ridgemonkey dropped the ball on this one 😂

In reply to Post #55

I think as anglers we would all agree that we'd like to see less people on the bank and be one of a few at a fishery.

But without the demand for angling nobody would invest in making or keeping lakes and fishing clubs.
And unfortunately the way this country is now somebody would soon buy the land, fill it in and tarmac over it.
The bigger the industry potentially more fisheries to choose from and more greenery

In reply to Post #58
It would of been 599 and not work

In reply to Post #59
Indeed look what happened to elstow pits 😢 other famous lakes lost to HS2...

In reply to Post #48
They already do. Difference is you are not lining the pockets of blatant carp tax promoters

In reply to Post #55
That's the one

In reply to Post #57
That is mad, eh?

I can see the merits in respect of inexperienced anglers with less chances of damaging the fish they catch. All the same, 300 large

It won't be long before other companies jump on this and it'll be in the rules to use one on a load of waters unfortunately. Can't wait...

In reply to Post #56
Clubs / syndicates have limits on members so don't understand that one

Easy, Korda and others companies encourage more anglers, more anglers means more difficulty getting into clubs and syndicates. Can't get into one of them and you're faced with day ticket waters rammed with anglers that have been encouraged to angle by Korda and others.

If Bank Tackle gets too big ditch them and find another smaller company.
Can't see Bank Tackle getting too big myself, not unless they are bought out.

Daiwa Castizm 25qda £269 - carp market
Daiwa Whisker 25qd £370 - carp market
Daiwa Castizm Feeder 25qd £185 - match/general market

Basically the same reel...

In reply to Post #63
I didn't want to start a new thread for something so trivial, where can I get the little scores for extendable banks ticks, the ones with a spring in them.. Keith from mps is going to send me one with my order but that will be ages..
Nash banksticks..

In reply to Post #67
Google Tommy (bar) screws

In reply to Post #1
Fox Camping table...£119.99

Go outdoors...same table...different colour...£35

In reply to Post #69
Really, ffs

In reply to Post #69
The one in go outdoors is lighter too

In reply to Post #71
None got a link, i cant find it

Edit: Found it

In reply to Post #69
Yeah but its not green

In reply to Post #66
Is this actually correct as I'd like another couple?

Haven't had the chance to do a side by side comparison, if it's only the paint job I can live with that /)

In reply to Post #1
Powapacs Atom DAB radio, was £50 at the time but I found the exact same radio on Ebay for £20 wothout the carp tax!

Daz

In reply to Post #73
And green is the colour if you need to shift something an old TV a fridge set of garden chairs paint them green then sit back and wait for the phone to ping 😀