Just watching on the bank and rob Hughes mentions using a pop up more in the winter than the summer due to leaf litter. So how clean are lake beds in general? How long does leaf litter stay on the bottom? Is it suddenly may and the leaves are gone let's get back on the bottom baits?
I get his thinking but I can't imagine the bottom of some lakes is ever clear.
I get his thinking but I can't imagine the bottom of some lakes is ever clear.
In reply to Post #1
I think the lake bed is littered with dead leaves. Reeling them in on the hook in my Syndicate. Can't disagree with Rob as his videos are always fascinating.
Rotting leaves do change the Ph of the water so be interesting to know if that's why short zigs work well in winter.
I think the lake bed is littered with dead leaves. Reeling them in on the hook in my Syndicate. Can't disagree with Rob as his videos are always fascinating.
Rotting leaves do change the Ph of the water so be interesting to know if that's why short zigs work well in winter.
In reply to Post #2
Surely if you get fish feeding on a spot, they clean off the leaves?
Surely if you get fish feeding on a spot, they clean off the leaves?
I use wafters all year round unless I'm fishing around slot of weed then I'll use a pop up, seems to work for me
In reply to Post #1
Oak leaves can stay intact on the bottom of silty lakes for up to five years apparently. Other types of leaves break down very quickly.
I fished a swim underneath a large oak tree last week and most of the lakebed was very clean, but I know that the area on the end of the prevailing wind will be covered in leaves.
I still get most of my winter bites on bottom baits.
Oak leaves can stay intact on the bottom of silty lakes for up to five years apparently. Other types of leaves break down very quickly.
I fished a swim underneath a large oak tree last week and most of the lakebed was very clean, but I know that the area on the end of the prevailing wind will be covered in leaves.
I still get most of my winter bites on bottom baits.
In reply to Post #1
Hi Alex
I lived in Eastern Europe and fished there for over a decade and they drain down their lakes reguarly. I've probably seen over 200 drain downs and it's pretty shocking (mostly winter)
Worst being:
Cheap boilies that don't break down. (Cell isn't cheap, but doesn't break down like you'd think)
Rigs obviously
Dead maggots (loads)
Nuts (acorns, chestnuts etc) even tigers
Leaf litter seems to take 2 seasons to break down
Certain weed seems to break down quickly, but others turn to a mush when the temp drops quickly
Just my observations, hope it helps
Best
Jon
Hi Alex
I lived in Eastern Europe and fished there for over a decade and they drain down their lakes reguarly. I've probably seen over 200 drain downs and it's pretty shocking (mostly winter)
Worst being:
Cheap boilies that don't break down. (Cell isn't cheap, but doesn't break down like you'd think)
Rigs obviously
Dead maggots (loads)
Nuts (acorns, chestnuts etc) even tigers
Leaf litter seems to take 2 seasons to break down
Certain weed seems to break down quickly, but others turn to a mush when the temp drops quickly
Just my observations, hope it helps
Best
Jon
In reply to Post #1
I remember when I first got my Bic and a glass bottom bucket, it put me off of bottom baits for ages, it's a mess down there!
I remember when I first got my Bic and a glass bottom bucket, it put me off of bottom baits for ages, it's a mess down there!
Seen and heard from anglers all the time after casting a lead as far out as possible is the amusing run down of substrate lake bed analysis and any vegetative weed growths within the spot chosen to present a bait which is always conveyed with such self assured certainty and all this information from flicking a lead about the spot, point being I think we all only have a vague idea of the bottom really without eyes on properly.
In reply to Post #7
Just remember all those fish you caught on bottom baits until you realised! A bit like the way everyone stopped using popups when the original Korda vids came out......
Just remember all those fish you caught on bottom baits until you realised! A bit like the way everyone stopped using popups when the original Korda vids came out......
In reply to Post #1
Pretty much all lake beds are unclean to some degree, all my fish this year bar 1 was caught on bottom baits and generally on very unclean areas, it didn't bother the fish.
Pretty much all lake beds are unclean to some degree, all my fish this year bar 1 was caught on bottom baits and generally on very unclean areas, it didn't bother the fish.
How much of there natural diet is presented on a nice clean area suspended about 2 inches above the lake bed ......or do they have to rummage around in all sorts if ***** to get there din dins
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Years ago I fished a very old water that was very silty, shallow and lined with trees all around.
One day I hooked a fish and it got me snagged on a branch overhanging the pond just to the left of where I was fishing.
The swim I was fishing was 6' deep, when I waded out with net in hand to free the fish, I was walking on a solid clay bottom, but I was shocked to discover that the silt was only 2' below the surface and I could feel it swirling around me and feel it with my hand and could waft the black silt upwards to confirm it. That means I was fishing in 4' of silt and did not know it. How far my lead and bait was sinking into it I do not know as it was only about a 30' underarm flick out so no chance to feel for a donk but my marker rod lead must have been hitting the clay as I was getting a donk and I was measuring 6' depth.
It must have been a very watery silt and the carp must have been swimming deep in it to find food and been able to smell and locate the bait.
One day I hooked a fish and it got me snagged on a branch overhanging the pond just to the left of where I was fishing.
The swim I was fishing was 6' deep, when I waded out with net in hand to free the fish, I was walking on a solid clay bottom, but I was shocked to discover that the silt was only 2' below the surface and I could feel it swirling around me and feel it with my hand and could waft the black silt upwards to confirm it. That means I was fishing in 4' of silt and did not know it. How far my lead and bait was sinking into it I do not know as it was only about a 30' underarm flick out so no chance to feel for a donk but my marker rod lead must have been hitting the clay as I was getting a donk and I was measuring 6' depth.
It must have been a very watery silt and the carp must have been swimming deep in it to find food and been able to smell and locate the bait.
In reply to Post #12
Awesome, I am going to start steam cleaning my baited spots!
Awesome, I am going to start steam cleaning my baited spots!
In reply to Post #1
I found using a breakaway lead after finding spots with a normal lead a real insight in to what I was missing. What felt clean had a layers of dead silkweed and crap over it which wasnt being picked up by a bare lead, also gravel spots having zebra mussel beds on, it wasnt pea gravel after all! One thing about the mussels is that you could tell if fish had recently fed on them as you'd bring in fresh bits of shell, or even old bits of shell where they'd been turned over maybe the year previously.
Well worth doing more to check spots out. I learnt the hard way after fishing reduntantly overnight a couple of times before making the extra effort.
I found using a breakaway lead after finding spots with a normal lead a real insight in to what I was missing. What felt clean had a layers of dead silkweed and crap over it which wasnt being picked up by a bare lead, also gravel spots having zebra mussel beds on, it wasnt pea gravel after all! One thing about the mussels is that you could tell if fish had recently fed on them as you'd bring in fresh bits of shell, or even old bits of shell where they'd been turned over maybe the year previously.
Well worth doing more to check spots out. I learnt the hard way after fishing reduntantly overnight a couple of times before making the extra effort.
In reply to Post #15
Yes the breakaway style lead has been a gamechanger for me too since i started using one last year.
I routinely use it now after it feels like i have found a suitable spot with a normal lead, i then clip up and change to the breakaway lead to check the spot.
Very useful!
Yes the breakaway style lead has been a gamechanger for me too since i started using one last year.
I routinely use it now after it feels like i have found a suitable spot with a normal lead, i then clip up and change to the breakaway lead to check the spot.
Very useful!
In reply to Post #15
I can relate to that. A bed of zebra mussels feels the same a lumpy gravel. Unless you bring one in clamped to the line, you won't know until you get cut off.
I can relate to that. A bed of zebra mussels feels the same a lumpy gravel. Unless you bring one in clamped to the line, you won't know until you get cut off.
My syndicate lake on one side is very clean, sand and gravel, then you get to the stream bed, which is thick and silty, it is then pretty much silt all the way over to within a metre of the far bank, sand.
On other lakes I have been out over 'gravel' spots, it is a layer of silt on top of the gravel. As fish feed it gets thinner and thinner until the gravel shines through.
Yet some gravel bars are continually clean.
Another lake you could bring a lead back along the margins, around 6feet deep, it feels like gravel, bump, bump, bump, yet the whole mere is silt. The margins are filled with big swan mussels.
On other lakes I have been out over 'gravel' spots, it is a layer of silt on top of the gravel. As fish feed it gets thinner and thinner until the gravel shines through.
Yet some gravel bars are continually clean.
Another lake you could bring a lead back along the margins, around 6feet deep, it feels like gravel, bump, bump, bump, yet the whole mere is silt. The margins are filled with big swan mussels.
In reply to Post #6
And think of the hammer a lot of these day tickets get, filled in beyond belief
I know some match lads and they have told me stories of 6inch of scum on the lake beds when drained, I think this is why a lot of places banned cat meat etc. Wasn't degrading
Got to make the fishing harder and longer term, let's not go there but there has to be environmental consequences for all these millions of tonnes of bait that going in!
Again, I blame a lot on pre-programmed sheep who just spod a bucket a day out without never thinking about it, madness
And think of the hammer a lot of these day tickets get, filled in beyond belief
I know some match lads and they have told me stories of 6inch of scum on the lake beds when drained, I think this is why a lot of places banned cat meat etc. Wasn't degrading
Got to make the fishing harder and longer term, let's not go there but there has to be environmental consequences for all these millions of tonnes of bait that going in!
Again, I blame a lot on pre-programmed sheep who just spod a bucket a day out without never thinking about it, madness
In reply to Post #17
When fishing on a canal in holland a Dutch guy came along with a stainless steel small scoop thing that he cast out, well lobbed in the margin and if he found zebras ( usually only in africa) he would set up and fish, Dutch and Belgium carp anglers are clever
When fishing on a canal in holland a Dutch guy came along with a stainless steel small scoop thing that he cast out, well lobbed in the margin and if he found zebras ( usually only in africa) he would set up and fish, Dutch and Belgium carp anglers are clever
In reply to Post #13
Someone told me similar when he was fishing on Longfield, bit of an eyeopener for sure.
Someone told me similar when he was fishing on Longfield, bit of an eyeopener for sure.
In reply to Post #21
Someone told me similar when he was fishing on Longfield
The old Longfield near Wraysbury? Yes indeed - extremely silty. I used to fish it in the late 70's in to the 80's. Swine of a water.
Someone told me similar when he was fishing on Longfield
The old Longfield near Wraysbury? Yes indeed - extremely silty. I used to fish it in the late 70's in to the 80's. Swine of a water.
In reply to Post #22
Yes that's the one, he said the silt was about 3 to 4 feet deep with a consistency of soup.
Yes that's the one, he said the silt was about 3 to 4 feet deep with a consistency of soup.
In reply to Post #1
Depends on the water, how long is a piece of string
Depends on the water, how long is a piece of string
In reply to Post #15
Been using a breakaway lead for years now, brilliant for clearing weedy areas, i always put a couple of plastic bag ties around the middle of the lead securing the prongs in place so it doesnt open.
Been using a breakaway lead for years now, brilliant for clearing weedy areas, i always put a couple of plastic bag ties around the middle of the lead securing the prongs in place so it doesnt open.
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