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Redmire - Peter Springate (60 posts / 6,815 views)
midlandman midlandman
Posts: 3,480
Post #1 26 Mar 2020 14:52
0
‘House Arrest' Has led me to start re-reading many of my fishing books. I am currently reading the big carp legends by Sir Pete. On page 56 is a reference which I have never spotted before but was interesting to me. It mentions the fact that when Yeoveney Lake was drained down in the 1970s, Pete stocked various of the lakes with some of the fish that were there.

Midway through the paragraph is the following quotation ‘We also put a few fish into Redmire, and brought back some little commons'.

I'm not judging Pete.....far from it. I was just fascinated by that statement that he had put fish into Redmire. First I've heard of it.

Anyway, we've all got too much time on our hands to analyse such irrelevant points, but I was interested to know if this was true or not?
scaley&dark
Posts: 5,563
Post #2 26 Mar 2020 15:05
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In reply to Post #1
Interesting the things you miss upon the first or second read, then spot on a casual read many years later

Cough cough ... bit of a trek to drop them into Redmire.

I'm sure that many other big fish lakes besides Redmire, had eggs, fry and small ones ending up all over the place by anglers back in the day, it was commonplace.

Jaspertinto
Posts: 959
Post #3 26 Mar 2020 15:12
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In reply to Post #1
I am not sure the Pete Springate Big Carp Legends book was that accurate, certainly when I spoke to Keith Jenkins, Pete was very keen to do his story properly, hence the trilogy brought out by Freebird publishing.

Indeed I believe Maylin got most of the contents for the Big Carp book over the phone, so I would think there is the possibility of more than one error.

Not saying it didn't happen, but I would be surprised bearing in mind I don't think Pete got into Redmire until the early 80's & unless it was an official stocking via Tom Mintram, I would be surprised if he would risk a potential ticket by putting fish into Redmire.
yonny yonny
Posts: 7,934
Post #4 26 Mar 2020 15:23
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In reply to Post #3
Wouldn't surprise me at all. Sir Pete and Kenny Hodder were up to all sorts back then weren't they? We know that he took fish from Redmire so can't see why he wouldn't put some in there.
midlandman midlandman
Posts: 3,480
Post #5 26 Mar 2020 15:36
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In reply to Post #3
Hi Jasper.

I have also assumed that this was an error by Maylin, the book has a ‘half finished' feel, but is actually very readable.

Who knows though, but I don't recall seeing any Yeoveney type mirrors from Redmire.
spodboy spodboy
Posts: 15
Post #6 26 Mar 2020 16:18
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In reply to Post #1
Was interested to read your comments - love this period of Carp fishing history and am currently re-reading Pete Springates book Carp side of the Moon - reading his chronology Yeoveney was drained down in the close season of 1978 they netted it three or four times with the majority of the fish going into Longfield (including the two fish in the famous brace pic of Pete that ended up in Carp Fever) and eventually about 15 fish into Wraysbury - in the book Pete says towards the end of the ‘78 close season him and Kenny netted the last 2 fish from a muddy puddle in the drained Yeoveney and slipped them into Wraysbury they were 2 mirrors about 14lb each. As said previously don't think Pete had access to redmire until early 1980's So not saying fish did not move but they weren't from Yeoveney
Andy_P Andy_P
Posts: 7,991
Post #7 26 Mar 2020 16:25
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During the mid to late 70's Redmire suffered from some very low water levels, the then syndicate members were asked if they wanted some of the smaller fish to stock into other waters, to allow more oxygen and space for the bigger residents. This offer was taken up by a few members one of which was the fishery manager of a certain club I used to fish at the time, the offspring of these carp have done very well indeed.


jeffire jeffire
Posts: 4,442
Post #8 26 Mar 2020 16:36
0
In reply to Post #7
Thats true some of those went into a private lake in the midlands that i fished very good looking fish they are now.
Daveb36 Daveb36
Posts: 312
Post #9 26 Mar 2020 17:57
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In reply to Post #5
All of Maylin's books have an unfinished feel to them. Lazy editing I call it

I do know that some of Redmire's most famous anglers have moved stock away from the lake but have never heard of fish going in to it.
Goose Goose
Posts: 12,901
Post #10 26 Mar 2020 18:40
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In reply to Post #9
All have a huge dollop of poetic licence as well, would take everything he says or writes with a large pinch of salt.
midlandman midlandman
Posts: 3,480
Post #11 26 Mar 2020 22:35
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In reply to Post #6
Nice post mate. Reassuring to me that other people are interested in such things!
SPINBOWLER SPINBOWLER
Posts: 1,418
Post #12 26 Mar 2020 22:45
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In reply to Post #11
A lot of moody things happened back then a lot of stuff that would be frowned on today. Don't believe the BS though not everything was done for the fish's interest.
oldgeezer oldgeezer
Posts: 27,037
Mr Linky Poo
Mr Linky Poo Post #13 26 Mar 2020 23:42
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I was amazed at the VERY large eels that were coming up not sure what they did with those ?
Goose Goose
Posts: 12,901
Post #14 27 Mar 2020 07:44
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In reply to Post #13
Jellied them obviously
The_Saint The_Saint
Posts: 2,072
Post #15 27 Mar 2020 07:46
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In reply to Post #9
I could not read springates first book, there seemed to have been no proof reading and one paragraph was repeated twice in the book.
BBGEOFF BBGEOFF
Posts: 91
Post #16 27 Mar 2020 18:13
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In reply to Post #15
I remember a conversation with Roger Smith in the mid 80s where he recounted tales of sml carp coming from Redmire and some of the lakes that they ended up in.
I find it hard to imagine fish going in the other direction. it doesn't make a lot of sense. Although Carp migration in the late 70s and early 80s was rife.
wandle1 wandle1
Posts: 7,469
Post #17 27 Mar 2020 18:32
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My favourite book is 'confessions of a carp angler'by BB,every night I read a page or two before I sleep,I must have read that book lots of times...

Anyway,being very interested in the history of carp angling,BB alludes to moving carp from Beechmere to another water some 15 miles from the coppermine,he used to embasket the small carp and relocate them...I also happen to have found another water,another open cast mine that also has carp from Beechmere in its depths,...I know this as the groundsman above my lake uses the quarry for his peregrine studies and lives near the quarry...

Also,...interestingly a water once fished by the god father of Cornish carping..(Ken)....its mentioned in Swest memories,had fish from the A 30 ponds when the road tween Kernow and Exrter was built...they were mirrors...

I also found that Peter Mohan,was instrumental in stocking many quarries locally,my fishing partner lives literally next to an old pit,all stocked by Peter..
wandle1 wandle1
Posts: 7,469
Post #18 27 Mar 2020 19:07
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In reply to Post #17
And.......and I'm glad Midlandman started this thread,because there is a connection here in Cornwall with Donald Leney,Surrey trout farm,if the info I have is correct..

Many years ago now i was a member of a three man membership lake,that lake formerly known as Shillamill,nr lanreath.Before John Facey sold it to Christine and John,I was told the fish were of the same heritage as Bernithan carp,leney fish....now,I fished there pretty much solo for seven yrs til it was sold to'they party'...upwards..,I caught a lot of fish,fish that were not like any other carp I caught before..I have ALL the pics in 35mm,blind taken using a cane for focusing,and air release system....

The lakes,were terribly ottered and a Alfa slurry tank disaster did for the lakes health,sadly its now shut as a fishery,and used purely for aesthetic hot tub holidays...urrrrrrhhhhhh..

Skeff has the list,or a list of Donalds stocking's but it remains to be seen if my info is true..

There is also a small water down Kernow,which was reptuted to have wildies,not ferals but proper wildies,the ones with the prominent notch,like welsh wildies...I have caught one of these too...
Goose Goose
Posts: 12,901
Post #19 27 Mar 2020 20:02
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In reply to Post #18
Chris Ball has Donald's stocking records.
wandle1 wandle1
Posts: 7,469
Post #20 27 Mar 2020 20:16
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In reply to Post #19
Great shout,I'll try and contact him.🖖
Daveb36 Daveb36
Posts: 312
Post #21 27 Mar 2020 20:25
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In reply to Post #17
Seeing Pete Mohan turn up on your lake was a nightmare back in the day. He was reputed to be sending numerous fish on long holidays to new waters
wandle1 wandle1
Posts: 7,469
Post #22 27 Mar 2020 20:29
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In reply to Post #21
That's what my old mate,Egloskerry Tom told me when I was much younger...four waters in west Devon,come to mind,staightaway...,Jeff Rowe country...!!!!!!!!
midlandman midlandman
Posts: 3,480
Post #23 27 Mar 2020 20:56
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In reply to Post #18
Great stuff Wandle. I would love to see some of those pictures if you are able to post them on here. The redmire stocking was the greatest of them all. The greatest batch of fish imaginable. I would love to see some of their progeny.
Goose Goose
Posts: 12,901
Post #24 27 Mar 2020 21:01
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In reply to Post #23
You may be disappointed.
midlandman midlandman
Posts: 3,480
Post #25 27 Mar 2020 23:53
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In reply to Post #24
In what respect?
NickGordon NickGordon
Posts: 3,121
Post #26 27 Mar 2020 23:58
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In reply to Post #7
I can remember reading about Dave Plummer buying some Redmire fish and stocking them into Taverham Mills and the Costessey Pits.

Some of the Taverham fish I caught were real lookers, fully scaleds, proper linears.
Goose Goose
Posts: 12,901
Post #27 28 Mar 2020 08:05
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In reply to Post #24
If you consider how many places received his fish, how many went on to become the sought after lookers? How many of these went on to spawn successfully?
Having researched his stockings in traveling distance of me only three still hold a handful of originals, non have gone on to reproduce successfully, some have cross bred as carp fishing became popular these places introduced new stock to satisfy the people fishing them, often at the cost of the originals.
Skeff
Posts: 224
Post #28 28 Mar 2020 09:55
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In reply to Post #19
Chris Ball doesn't have the Leney records. They belong to Chris Yates and are currently here at home, on loan to me...
scaley&dark
Posts: 5,563
Post #29 28 Mar 2020 14:42
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In reply to Post #28
They belong to Chris Yates and are currently here at home, on loan to me...

A very nice bit of Reading for you Skeff


Goose Goose
Posts: 12,901
Post #30 28 Mar 2020 15:08
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In reply to Post #28
I know they belong to Chris Yates, some time ago I spoke to Chris Ball at an event and he had them there, he has quoted from them so assumed he still had them.
GAF17 GAF17
Posts: 99
Post #31 28 Mar 2020 16:49
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In reply to Post #17
spent a week in the priest hole in 1998ish , scariest lake I've ever fished. caught some really old leany warriors.
Goose Goose
Posts: 12,901
Post #32 28 Mar 2020 17:13
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In reply to Post #31
Father Angelus was watching you, prity sure it was a tin mine though not copper as p17 eluded to.
GAF17 GAF17
Posts: 99
Post #33 28 Mar 2020 17:28
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In reply to Post #32
woke up at night heard a noise plucked up the courage for a piss. Deer shot out in front of me smashing through the undergrowth. so many spooky stories about the place
Goose Goose
Posts: 12,901
Post #34 28 Mar 2020 17:40
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In reply to Post #33
Yep and rumours of suicides years ago.
midlandman midlandman
Posts: 3,480
Post #35 28 Mar 2020 22:05
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In reply to Post #27
I think that Leneys as a phrase can be quite misleading. No doubt about it, there were numerous different strains sold by Leney, so to class Leney as a strain, as some do, is not correct. Take the famous stockings....the Redmire fish are very different to the Frensham fish, the Billing fish, Savay...etc etc,

There was just something particularly special about the Redmire ones for me. A truly unique mix of leathers, several leathers in fact....zip linears....scattered mirrors and the perfect commons. You could not have stocked a more glorious spread of carp. Some of them were perfect, the Bishop, Pinky, the nude leather. Perfect.

I think the problem is that the stock was neglected, due to an understandable lack of foresight in the early days. Successful spawning lead to the mirrors being squeezed out, the big old magnificent fish died, Castle carp was a disaster and the bloodline was lost.

Most of the fish which have been stocked from Redmire into other lakes were commons, collected as babies in the early days and then in later years by RMC amongst others. These fish are superb examples but the chance to collect the next generation of Bishops was missed. Not just Redmire either...Frensham, the Reading waters, Savay etc....I done think there were many examples of the true original masterpieces providing another generation.

I'm rambling! I agree with you, the progeny have often not lived up to the original. The chance was missed.
Goose Goose
Posts: 12,901
Post #36 28 Mar 2020 22:22
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In reply to Post #35
The castle carp disaster? Very near to me and all I've heard are stories and rumours. Frencham restocking short sighted, still a couple of originals in there, maybe. The three ponds not far from Frencham still a few in there definitely. Skefs writing re the work on Redmire and the measures required to not just to restore it but protect it from what happens around it were very interesting and I'm glad people like him still have the passion for it.
wandle1 wandle1
Posts: 7,469
Post #37 29 Mar 2020 00:39
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In reply to Post #32

BB himself calls it The old Copper mine,it does however have a very interesting history,which is in his famous book,however,back in the mists of time,Cornish tin miners worked there. Cornish miners are known as cousin jacks,when the price of tin dropped,thousands of miners took there skills world wide,Australia ,New Zealand,The America's and so on..

Hence,why so many Kernow place names world wide..

There's a saying ,where there is a hole in the ground you'll find a Cornish man,not forgetting the Cambourne school of mines, and the world famous blue slate quarry, which members of my family worked down,including Prince of Wales, quarry nr Tintagel..

Some fisherman's friends songs,tell of the trials and travels of Cornish miners worldwide,indeed a family member is lead singer in a well known group called'Cousin Jack',bit like the fisherman's friends or Boscastle Bouys.

The footprints in the leaves, Elias and his suicide,plus others all add to a very special atmosphere... Have fished all the known swims,even during the day,you know BB is watching,making sure you respect the place...

I mentioned before,once or twice,I'm well into history,ive been privvy to stuff,that no one will ever know about..ie BM

Out of respect to The Golden Scale club, and the lucky few that's all I'm saying...

I'm meant to be fishing there soon,again..but not now,due to this awful virus....my heart and prayers to everyone, at this time,I'm still gutted I won't be going now..
wandle1 wandle1
Posts: 7,469
Post #38 29 Mar 2020 02:01
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In reply to Post #35
Hi mate,'There was just something particulary special about 'etc etc,well,those scale patterns were very much in evidence in the top pool at Shillamill,especially zip linears,lean mean,spool emptying, fighting machines...

I have a poignant picture of a perfect zip I caught it on a weekend,the next weekend I went,I found it in three separate parts,near the dead tree swim,on the high bank,I remember the body part regeneration on its tail as if it was yesterday..

It had clearly been attacked before,tried to heal and regenerate,then finally,like 80% of those beautiful fish,succumbed to untimely death by lutra lutra..

The owners,by then good friends,one of them especially, suffered health issues,such was the pain of senseless murder..of his fish..and the other fishery across the road..

But that's another story...!!



Skeff
Posts: 224
Post #39 29 Mar 2020 13:04
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In reply to Post #35
Agree with all of that...
Skeff
Posts: 224
Post #40 29 Mar 2020 13:08
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In reply to Post #36
Thanks for that Goose - I think of Redmire these days as being like a National Trust property (I worked for NT for fifteen years). It's a pastiche in many ways these days of times gone by and the impacts of that time are painfully evident, from the built swims to the new otter fence and the changes in landscape management around the pool that made the restoration work necessary.... But there is still an underlying magic there and that sense of history.
Skeff
Posts: 224
Post #41 29 Mar 2020 13:10
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In reply to Post #37
We may be missing our first Golden Scale Club opening there for thirty-nine years Wandle
wandle1 wandle1
Posts: 7,469
Post #42 29 Mar 2020 14:40
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In reply to Post #41
Feel for all members of GS..

Its gutting,my whole yr revolved going there,plans,dreaming,sleepless nights....oh well...😖
Goose Goose
Posts: 12,901
Post #43 29 Mar 2020 14:58
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In reply to Post #40
A lot of my work is on national trust sites which I love as most are country locations and many have lakes as I'm sure you know. The history of the places and former residents is interesting and the stocking records would be very interesting, can only dream of what was once in these places fifty odd years ago.
Skeff
Posts: 224
Post #44 29 Mar 2020 17:46
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In reply to Post #43
There are some real gems...
scozza
Posts: 18,421
Post #45 29 Mar 2020 18:35
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In reply to Post #43
Makes me wonder places like these. I know a few Stately homes, one of which is dear to my heart, fished it as a kid. Used to catch tiny carp in the early 80s on maggot which had to be from successful breeding contrary what people believe because until a fish kill from effluent in the early 90s to my knowledge nobody had ever put anything into it. Makes me wonder the bloodline of carp and how long they could actually survive for if they are breeding. Lake mentioned had no pike in it either which is surprising really so not such much predication other than herons etc.
SPINBOWLER SPINBOWLER
Posts: 1,418
Post #46 29 Mar 2020 18:41
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In reply to Post #45
There are record breaking fish out there in some of these stately ponds.
scozza
Posts: 18,421
Post #47 29 Mar 2020 18:45
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In reply to Post #46
And some very big ones on golf courses

There's still a few about, I'm certain

There's also places that are not really viable to fish and would need some serious time and dedication but I am certain the rewards are there, even if they are just uncaught fish, size regardless
SPINBOWLER SPINBOWLER
Posts: 1,418
Post #48 29 Mar 2020 18:54
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In reply to Post #47
A butler friend of mine once showed me some pictures of estate workers holding fish (for a laugh) during the drain down of an estate lake about 20 years ago, 3 or 4 different fish all well over 40 !! Apparently there were much bigger but they couldn't get hold of them
scozza
Posts: 18,421
Post #49 29 Mar 2020 21:02
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In reply to Post #48
I could fish for two now, have not got the time or the will to fish there, get quite a few people walking round and when you fish places like this, everybody is an angler all of a sudden, pain in the arse

Goose Goose
Posts: 12,901
Post #50 29 Mar 2020 22:57
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In reply to Post #46
Personally I've no interest in size, the few that know me and have fished with me will know this and I very rarely weigh or photograph captures. How many fish over 40lb ish are true stunners, in my eyes hardly any. What's important to me and I know I'm in the minority is the look of the fish and condition they are in. A healthy torpedo shaped upper double to thirty pound fish caught on balanced tackle from an old lake the fish has spent its entire life in and know every inch of will fight and challenge the angler more than many of these forty plus gravel pit lumps that plod around with the occasional thump. Just as important is the venue which is why these historic estate lakes and old mill/hammer ponds are interesting to me even though I will never get permission to fish most of them.
Goose Goose
Posts: 12,901
Post #51 29 Mar 2020 23:00
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In reply to Post #48
Probably long gone, many places I see have not and never will be fenced.
midlandman midlandman
Posts: 3,480
Post #52 29 Mar 2020 23:12
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In reply to Post #51
Sadly you are correct. Most estate lakes have been ravaged....usually stream fed, unfenced, shallow and lacking in other species. Often emptied by otters within weeks
Skeff
Posts: 224
Post #53 30 Mar 2020 10:23
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In reply to Post #50
Spot on.
scozza
Posts: 18,421
Post #54 30 Mar 2020 12:14
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In reply to Post #50
Similar thinking to me
tonymartin
Posts: 143
Post #55 30 Mar 2020 12:27
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In reply to Post #50
Eh? So there's hardly any fish over 40lb that are stunners? Are you sure?
Goose Goose
Posts: 12,901
Post #56 30 Mar 2020 12:54
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In reply to Post #55
In my eyes probably less than 10%, there are loads of 40+ fish out there now, many if they were human would be classed as obese.
COSI
Posts: 493
Post #57 1 Apr 2020 17:24
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In reply to Post #15
Agree, worst carp book I've ever read, not a great author that's for sure'
essesxandy essesxandy
Posts: 3,197
Post #58 1 Apr 2020 17:43
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In reply to Post #35
Also the fingerlings would have been graded before Leney arrived at the fish dealers, and then he in turn chose what he considered to be the best. Natural spawning just isn't like that. Nature doesn't 'grade' the fish according to size or looks. That's why Redmires stock regressed into mediocrity over the generations.
mark1009
Posts: 4,738
Post #59 1 Apr 2020 18:00
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In reply to Post #58
Yes. The reason we have the fish we have today is purely through unnatural selection. Left alone all lakes would be full of long skinny 12lb Wildie commons.
scozza
Posts: 18,421
Post #60 1 Apr 2020 19:19
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In reply to Post #59
It's an interesting subject. I know some lakes that contain fish like this, the old cricket bat commons, like peas in a pod. Nobody has done anything with these waters for as long as I can remember and history tells me they have been in there for MANY years
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