Gents
Looking for some advice, Ive been making my own BM1 based bait for a while now (once again kudos to pete for sharing it), and have always used eggs, and usually use the shell too - probably more a confidence thing for me - my thinking is it adds texture to the bait. Having said that, I havent noticed any difference in catch rates with or without the shell.
Anyway - the shell asside - Im thinking abouts switching to whole egg powder - simply for convienience, but have never used it before. Just wondered what others who've done the switch have thought, and how youve used it. Do you just add it to your dry ingredients, or do you make up a liquid with it and add it to your base mix at the point of mixing.
And what do you do in terms of adding liquids - do you use water, or do you just up the liquid additives ?
I use Salmon oil, Tuna, Squid, Krill hydroslates and ccmoores GLM liquid extract, and usually add them to the eggs along with some betaine and JB plumb and the betaine.
My bait is usually quite soft - thats how I like it as I tend to fish short sessions and short ranges and want it leaching out all the solubles. I do however make hard hookers and corkballs.
After boiling just until they float and drying for at least 24 hours (sometimes longer) they get a nice glug in a concoction of the hydroslates and betaine before freezing.
I used to use RobinRed, but in all honesty cant say I have noticed any difference with or without it.
Only down side to glugging with the hydroslates is the bait seems to pull in every fly for a square mile around me - so have to leave the bait in an air-dry bag well away from my bivvy
So, back to the point of my post. Should I just use neat liquid additives with the whole egg powder and then mix it with my basemix ? ...cost isnt really an issue using neat hydroslates as I don't make/use huge amounts - I usually like to have 10-15kg in the freezer at any one time and kind of make it up on demand so to speak. But would the inclusion of that much hydroslate be counter productive ? ....should I dilute it with water ?
Has anyone noticed any effects in switching to egg powder rather than whole eggs ?
Looking for some advice, Ive been making my own BM1 based bait for a while now (once again kudos to pete for sharing it), and have always used eggs, and usually use the shell too - probably more a confidence thing for me - my thinking is it adds texture to the bait. Having said that, I havent noticed any difference in catch rates with or without the shell.
Anyway - the shell asside - Im thinking abouts switching to whole egg powder - simply for convienience, but have never used it before. Just wondered what others who've done the switch have thought, and how youve used it. Do you just add it to your dry ingredients, or do you make up a liquid with it and add it to your base mix at the point of mixing.
And what do you do in terms of adding liquids - do you use water, or do you just up the liquid additives ?
I use Salmon oil, Tuna, Squid, Krill hydroslates and ccmoores GLM liquid extract, and usually add them to the eggs along with some betaine and JB plumb and the betaine.
My bait is usually quite soft - thats how I like it as I tend to fish short sessions and short ranges and want it leaching out all the solubles. I do however make hard hookers and corkballs.
After boiling just until they float and drying for at least 24 hours (sometimes longer) they get a nice glug in a concoction of the hydroslates and betaine before freezing.
I used to use RobinRed, but in all honesty cant say I have noticed any difference with or without it.
Only down side to glugging with the hydroslates is the bait seems to pull in every fly for a square mile around me - so have to leave the bait in an air-dry bag well away from my bivvy
So, back to the point of my post. Should I just use neat liquid additives with the whole egg powder and then mix it with my basemix ? ...cost isnt really an issue using neat hydroslates as I don't make/use huge amounts - I usually like to have 10-15kg in the freezer at any one time and kind of make it up on demand so to speak. But would the inclusion of that much hydroslate be counter productive ? ....should I dilute it with water ?
Has anyone noticed any effects in switching to egg powder rather than whole eggs ?
I've used powdered egg and real egg on numerous mixes (not the mix you've mentioned) and can honestly say there's no substitute for real eggs for rolling a mix.
With powdered mix all your liquids and water together in a measuring jug. The mix is dependent on the quantity of water needed.
My advice, stick to real eggs if possible.
With powdered mix all your liquids and water together in a measuring jug. The mix is dependent on the quantity of water needed.
My advice, stick to real eggs if possible.
In reply to Post #1
Absolutely no issue with whole egg powder, since changing to it it's made absolutely no difference to my bait. Far more convenient too.
I mix it up with my liquids using water. My opinion, ditch the eggs.
Absolutely no issue with whole egg powder, since changing to it it's made absolutely no difference to my bait. Far more convenient too.
I mix it up with my liquids using water. My opinion, ditch the eggs.
In reply to Post #2
Agree, fresh eggs is best for me. The best bait companies I have ever dealt with use eggs, not the powdered stuff that sits around in barrels going rank. Eggs are packed with protein.......use this as you have gone to so much trouble to construct a nice basemix and you are using all those lovely additives and hydros. Why cut the corner? Keep your bait in tip top condition and add ten percent to those confidence levels
Agree, fresh eggs is best for me. The best bait companies I have ever dealt with use eggs, not the powdered stuff that sits around in barrels going rank. Eggs are packed with protein.......use this as you have gone to so much trouble to construct a nice basemix and you are using all those lovely additives and hydros. Why cut the corner? Keep your bait in tip top condition and add ten percent to those confidence levels
In reply to Post #1
I have been inside 4 bait making company's and they all used eggs.
Read into that what you will
I have been inside 4 bait making company's and they all used eggs.
Read into that what you will
In reply to Post #5
Can anyone explain the difference in attraction, structure of bait using fresh eggs or egg powder?
Cause here on the mainland every big bait company is using egg powder or ep60.
I stopped using eggs because it's less messy. Just add your liquids and water. No eggs to break etc.
Over the years i used several replacements such as bloodpowder, red cell, guar gum, egg powder and ep60.
And if you fool around with some you gain attraction because your baits become more 'open' compared to the use of fresh eggs.
Can anyone explain the difference in attraction, structure of bait using fresh eggs or egg powder?
Cause here on the mainland every big bait company is using egg powder or ep60.
I stopped using eggs because it's less messy. Just add your liquids and water. No eggs to break etc.
Over the years i used several replacements such as bloodpowder, red cell, guar gum, egg powder and ep60.
And if you fool around with some you gain attraction because your baits become more 'open' compared to the use of fresh eggs.
I started using whole egg powder about 18 months ago. I won't be going back to fresh eggs. So much quicker, easier and no more last minute runs to the shop when I get time to make bait. Only thing to be careful of is which whole egg powder you are using as some have a high fat content.
In reply to Post #5
You will be amazed how many do not
You will be amazed how many do not
In reply to Post #1
To add some of my own (perhaps sketchy) rationale behind this....
First off, my wife and I are extremely careful about what we eat, both of use follow a fairly close Paleo diet so are extremely mindful of nutrition. I train a lot and so does my wife, and we both see and feel the difference in terms of eating clean and nutritional food.
The thing is, even though I try to source the best "quality" ingredients for my bait, at the end of the day the ingredients themselves are highly processed, so to my mind the nutritional difference between say whole egg powder vs real eggs in terms of nutritional benefit is somewhat irrelevant. Its not like we only use grass-fed meat and whole foods in our bait is it.
I think my main concern is if there is a definite measurable difference in performance of the bait. Also, its important that the bait is still easy to roll and has the same characteristics as my bait made with real eggs, i.e. holds together underwater for at least 24 and leaches out my solubles.
I think I'll have a tinker with a small batch with whole egg powder, and will stick to my current ratio's for additives and see how it goes.
Perhaps i'm over thinking it, but do those who use whole egg powder also use tap water ?
To add some of my own (perhaps sketchy) rationale behind this....
First off, my wife and I are extremely careful about what we eat, both of use follow a fairly close Paleo diet so are extremely mindful of nutrition. I train a lot and so does my wife, and we both see and feel the difference in terms of eating clean and nutritional food.
The thing is, even though I try to source the best "quality" ingredients for my bait, at the end of the day the ingredients themselves are highly processed, so to my mind the nutritional difference between say whole egg powder vs real eggs in terms of nutritional benefit is somewhat irrelevant. Its not like we only use grass-fed meat and whole foods in our bait is it.
I think my main concern is if there is a definite measurable difference in performance of the bait. Also, its important that the bait is still easy to roll and has the same characteristics as my bait made with real eggs, i.e. holds together underwater for at least 24 and leaches out my solubles.
I think I'll have a tinker with a small batch with whole egg powder, and will stick to my current ratio's for additives and see how it goes.
Perhaps i'm over thinking it, but do those who use whole egg powder also use tap water ?
In reply to Post #9
Yes, tap water. Don't over complicate things. They're mud pigs at the end of the day.
Yes, tap water. Don't over complicate things. They're mud pigs at the end of the day.
In reply to Post #9
Using tap water!
Using tap water!
In reply to Post #11
Keeper boy, Do Blake's bait use Real eggs in all there baits?
Keeper boy, Do Blake's bait use Real eggs in all there baits?
In reply to Post #12
Only our own baits at the moment (hnv pro, milky nut, new red fish pro). The whole range will be fresh eggs by next year and all freezer baits will be made with fresh eggs always.
Only our own baits at the moment (hnv pro, milky nut, new red fish pro). The whole range will be fresh eggs by next year and all freezer baits will be made with fresh eggs always.
In reply to Post #13
Ahh right, ok.
Didn't really like any of those new mixes, Geoff's Baits were miles better.
Are you going to copy his Baits soon then or demand he uses fresh eggs.
Ahh right, ok.
Didn't really like any of those new mixes, Geoff's Baits were miles better.
Are you going to copy his Baits soon then or demand he uses fresh eggs.
In reply to Post #13
Keeperboy, do you see a difference in the catching rates of the same mix produced with eggs or egg powder?
Because i don't
Keeperboy, do you see a difference in the catching rates of the same mix produced with eggs or egg powder?
Because i don't
In reply to Post #14
Bob or active or one of the companies whoever it is you work for, if you like his baits then fair play as they have caught plenty of fish. We are not copying anything anymore just making our own. Good luck mr whoever you are
Bob or active or one of the companies whoever it is you work for, if you like his baits then fair play as they have caught plenty of fish. We are not copying anything anymore just making our own. Good luck mr whoever you are
In reply to Post #15
We just follow old fashioned rules of fresh eggs, and yes i believe my catch results on baits with fresh eggs make a difference but i also understand many companies use powder and they still catch carp. You can say the same for many ingredients, fresh and better quality produce better results over a season. Powder is used for convenience. Ask John baker, bill cottam, mike willmott etc what they use where possible and im sure you will find its real eggs. Whats better provimi or lt94??? where do you draw the line?
We just follow old fashioned rules of fresh eggs, and yes i believe my catch results on baits with fresh eggs make a difference but i also understand many companies use powder and they still catch carp. You can say the same for many ingredients, fresh and better quality produce better results over a season. Powder is used for convenience. Ask John baker, bill cottam, mike willmott etc what they use where possible and im sure you will find its real eggs. Whats better provimi or lt94??? where do you draw the line?
In reply to Post #17
Just had a thought. When you look at the specifications of whole egg powder against fresh egg, say per 100g, are the values given for whole egg powder for 100g of powder or 100g of powder/water mix? As obviously that would make a huge difference. It would kind of make sense if it were based purely on powder as a lot of the values given are around 3-4 times that of fresh egg, which when diluted into a solution would make them very similar.
Just had a thought. When you look at the specifications of whole egg powder against fresh egg, say per 100g, are the values given for whole egg powder for 100g of powder or 100g of powder/water mix? As obviously that would make a huge difference. It would kind of make sense if it were based purely on powder as a lot of the values given are around 3-4 times that of fresh egg, which when diluted into a solution would make them very similar.
In reply to Post #17
Lt94 is much better for the fish.
Lt94 is much better for the fish.
In reply to Post #18
Whole egg power - 100g of dried powder is mixed with 300ml (pretty much 300g) of water - so simply divide the dried-egg powder individual nutritional values by 4 and you'll end up with a more realistic comparison between whole-egg powder and real eggs per 100g.
Whole egg power - 100g of dried powder is mixed with 300ml (pretty much 300g) of water - so simply divide the dried-egg powder individual nutritional values by 4 and you'll end up with a more realistic comparison between whole-egg powder and real eggs per 100g.
In reply to Post #20
Exactly my thoughts. So with that in mind, the difference really is very minimal.
Exactly my thoughts. So with that in mind, the difference really is very minimal.
In reply to Post #21
Has anyone noticed any difference in terms of leaking solubles from the bait in a glass of water when using eggs vs egg powder?
Has anyone noticed any difference in terms of leaking solubles from the bait in a glass of water when using eggs vs egg powder?
In reply to Post #7
I think there are pros and cons for both. I've found that real eggs benefit cork wafters and pop ups along with extra hard hookbaits. And powdered egg for the bait as i find it breaks down quicker with fast leakage. So maybe try both.👍
I think there are pros and cons for both. I've found that real eggs benefit cork wafters and pop ups along with extra hard hookbaits. And powdered egg for the bait as i find it breaks down quicker with fast leakage. So maybe try both.👍
In reply to Post #23
So indeed baits with powdered eggs leak more?
So indeed baits with powdered eggs leak more?
In reply to Post #24
That's what I've found. It wasn't the most scientific😂 but I could see the difference Especially fish meals. Have fun giving it a try👍👍🎣🎣🎣
That's what I've found. It wasn't the most scientific😂 but I could see the difference Especially fish meals. Have fun giving it a try👍👍🎣🎣🎣
In reply to Post #24
If powdered eggs do leak and break down better then you have to wonder if some of the egg albumen is skimmed off from the whole egg powder...
After all the albumen is a very high cost product so maybe a small amount if pinched to increase profits.
If powdered eggs do leak and break down better then you have to wonder if some of the egg albumen is skimmed off from the whole egg powder...
After all the albumen is a very high cost product so maybe a small amount if pinched to increase profits.
In reply to Post #25
Okay thanks for that info. Will give that a try!
Okay thanks for that info. Will give that a try!
In reply to Post #1
How much egg power would you use to substitute a 6 egg mix then add water?
How much egg power would you use to substitute a 6 egg mix then add water?
In reply to Post #28
Look at 20
Look at 20
In reply to Post #29
Ok 20 grams per 6 eggs
Ok 20 grams per 6 eggs
In reply to Post #1
I moved over to whole egg powder a few years ago and wouldn't go back to eggs. I have noticed no difference in catches after the move. Damn sight more convenient that is for sure.
I moved over to whole egg powder a few years ago and wouldn't go back to eggs. I have noticed no difference in catches after the move. Damn sight more convenient that is for sure.
In reply to Post #31
Yeah me too, would never go back
I originally made the switch as the mixes are far more consistent, which work better with rolling machines as machines are far more fussy than rolling tables.
Yeah me too, would never go back
I originally made the switch as the mixes are far more consistent, which work better with rolling machines as machines are far more fussy than rolling tables.
I random through that popped into my head about 3am this morning. Has anyone looked at the emulsification properties of liquid egg Vs whole egg powder?
I know some have tried baits made with both and are convinced liquid eggs are better. Others have found no difference. In fact not sure I have ever read or heard of whole egg powder baits being better than liquid egg baits from a fish attraction/catching point of view.
Could liquid eggs give better emulsification properties when bait making than the other?
Could the way you use whole egg powder when bait making make a difference i.e. do you mix water with the whole egg powder then treat them like liquid egg vs adding the powder to your base mix first and the add the liquids after?
Could 'higher' oil content baits not work so well with whole egg powder?
If you regularly add oil (plant or fish) or EO to your liquid eggs before mixing the base mix in then they might combine better this way with liquid eggs.
Like I say just a thought. Not one I am going to pursue as I am happy using liquid eggs as I always have done.
I know some have tried baits made with both and are convinced liquid eggs are better. Others have found no difference. In fact not sure I have ever read or heard of whole egg powder baits being better than liquid egg baits from a fish attraction/catching point of view.
Could liquid eggs give better emulsification properties when bait making than the other?
Could the way you use whole egg powder when bait making make a difference i.e. do you mix water with the whole egg powder then treat them like liquid egg vs adding the powder to your base mix first and the add the liquids after?
Could 'higher' oil content baits not work so well with whole egg powder?
If you regularly add oil (plant or fish) or EO to your liquid eggs before mixing the base mix in then they might combine better this way with liquid eggs.
Like I say just a thought. Not one I am going to pursue as I am happy using liquid eggs as I always have done.
In reply to Post #33
"Could the way you use whole egg powder when bait making make a difference i.e. do you mix water with the whole egg powder then treat them like liquid egg vs adding the powder to your base mix first and the add the liquids after?"
When making boilies in volume I found that the mix did bind better when mixing the egg powder with water and liquids first, allowing the egg powder to hydrate. This in a high krill/fish/hydrolysate mix.
"Could the way you use whole egg powder when bait making make a difference i.e. do you mix water with the whole egg powder then treat them like liquid egg vs adding the powder to your base mix first and the add the liquids after?"
When making boilies in volume I found that the mix did bind better when mixing the egg powder with water and liquids first, allowing the egg powder to hydrate. This in a high krill/fish/hydrolysate mix.
In reply to Post #34
Yeah I mix with water so basically replicating liquid eggs.
I would not say the baits improved catch rates, but I'm also sure they didn't reduce catch rates.
Yeah I mix with water so basically replicating liquid eggs.
I would not say the baits improved catch rates, but I'm also sure they didn't reduce catch rates.
In reply to Post #35
It's just less messy
It's just less messy
I remember Gary Bayes talking about whole egg powder and how the fish really liked it when he was testing baits on an Essex lake compared to baits without it, not sure if his baits are rolled with eggs as well but he did say such was the reaction that they use over a tonne of the stuff a year, he was a big fan.
Not sure if any of the above helps but the bait heads can probably delve deeper, Smurfs post just dislodge some long forgotten info.
Not sure if any of the above helps but the bait heads can probably delve deeper, Smurfs post just dislodge some long forgotten info.
In reply to Post #33
Your right there liquid always emulsifies better than a powdered alternative
Your right there liquid always emulsifies better than a powdered alternative
In reply to Post #37
Being cynical, they would say that as a justification for not using fresh eggs.......
Being cynical, they would say that as a justification for not using fresh eggs.......
In reply to Post #39
I'm not sure if they use fresh eggs at Nash or not but Gary was talking about it strictly on it's performance as an ingredient, no mention of whether they use it to replace fresh eggs...you maybe right though?
I'm not sure if they use fresh eggs at Nash or not but Gary was talking about it strictly on it's performance as an ingredient, no mention of whether they use it to replace fresh eggs...you maybe right though?
In reply to Post #40
The angling world has deviated away from fresh eggs for ease and cost........either way I still say a fresh egg is best. Do body builders knock up egg and water to drink before a work out? No they use fresh eggs. I still use eggs straight from the rear end of a chicken and I'm much happier. Each to their own
The angling world has deviated away from fresh eggs for ease and cost........either way I still say a fresh egg is best. Do body builders knock up egg and water to drink before a work out? No they use fresh eggs. I still use eggs straight from the rear end of a chicken and I'm much happier. Each to their own
In reply to Post #41
Fresh egg may well be better.
But if you use egg powder to replace liquid egg with hydrolysates and other attractive liquids you may end up with a more effective end product.
Fresh egg may well be better.
But if you use egg powder to replace liquid egg with hydrolysates and other attractive liquids you may end up with a more effective end product.
For a long time some big bait companies like Nash ( for ease and storage ) have used ' Frozen pasteurized liquid whole egg ' from the catering industry
In reply to Post #42
This is what I now do, hydrate the egg powder with a hydro. In my mind this makes a more attractive bait than fresh egg and more consistent.
This is what I now do, hydrate the egg powder with a hydro. In my mind this makes a more attractive bait than fresh egg and more consistent.
ive used whole egg powder for 20 years making boilies, and its been fine, better for what i need , i always steam my bait also, and i blank alot make of that what you will
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