Now the affinity's have been in use for a couple of years, what are people's opinions of them?
I remember all the hype when they were first released but, was it all hype or are they as good as first thought.
Anyone out there who is still using them two or three years on?
Thanks
Greg.
I remember all the hype when they were first released but, was it all hype or are they as good as first thought.
Anyone out there who is still using them two or three years on?
Thanks
Greg.
In reply to Post #1
Yep, still using mine, and a mate is also - been faultless
Yep, still using mine, and a mate is also - been faultless
In reply to Post #2
Thanks Keith, that's what I was looking for
Thanks Keith, that's what I was looking for
In reply to Post #1
Still using mine also on my 12foot rods cant fault them.
Still using mine also on my 12foot rods cant fault them.
In reply to Post #1
Changed from Shimano's a few years back and love the reels. Cast well, nice to play fish on, and imo look good. Considering the price comparison to some other brands they are also a bargain. Can see me keeping these for a good few years to come
Changed from Shimano's a few years back and love the reels. Cast well, nice to play fish on, and imo look good. Considering the price comparison to some other brands they are also a bargain. Can see me keeping these for a good few years to come
In reply to Post #5
I think the older ones are better than the make 2 version
I think the older ones are better than the make 2 version
In reply to Post #6
This is exactly what I warned people about when these came out, stating only time would tell what would happen.. Well they didn't last long did they?
Wether pure fishing, or whoever distributes them, will be able to help with spare parts in the future is debatable; especially as the European carp market must be minuscule in comparison to the USA and Oceania market they also flood with new models all the time.
A nice smooth reel that looks ok, but can't be compared to long standing proven reels... of which I can only actually think of 4, that's really 2 but both available in 2 sizes.
You could always go for an ultegra only for that to be obsolete in 24 months too
This is exactly what I warned people about when these came out, stating only time would tell what would happen.. Well they didn't last long did they?
Wether pure fishing, or whoever distributes them, will be able to help with spare parts in the future is debatable; especially as the European carp market must be minuscule in comparison to the USA and Oceania market they also flood with new models all the time.
A nice smooth reel that looks ok, but can't be compared to long standing proven reels... of which I can only actually think of 4, that's really 2 but both available in 2 sizes.
You could always go for an ultegra only for that to be obsolete in 24 months too
In reply to Post #6
Can't comment on that, haven't used the version 2. Bought the older ones and they are still going very well.
Can't comment on that, haven't used the version 2. Bought the older ones and they are still going very well.
In reply to Post #7
Which is why I'm asking the question now Noj. From what I can see and have heard, Shimano have lowered their prices, have outsourced their manufacturing and the quality of their reels has suffered, especially in the lower end of the market. Daiwa possibly the same in their lower end reels.
Personally, I'm not fishing nearly enough these day's to justify spending on top end reels so, I'm looking for a reasonable quality reel that people can give some decent feedback on.
Which is why I'm asking the question now Noj. From what I can see and have heard, Shimano have lowered their prices, have outsourced their manufacturing and the quality of their reels has suffered, especially in the lower end of the market. Daiwa possibly the same in their lower end reels.
Personally, I'm not fishing nearly enough these day's to justify spending on top end reels so, I'm looking for a reasonable quality reel that people can give some decent feedback on.
In reply to Post #1
Fantastic reels, had cats over 60lb on my old mk1s I had and they coped perfectly, sold them and "upgraded" to daiwa entoh, biggest mistake I've made for a long time, sent those piles of **** back and bought some more penns. These are the mk2 version, and they don't really appear to be any different to the original ones except you don't get 2 handles and a spare spool now
Fantastic reels, had cats over 60lb on my old mk1s I had and they coped perfectly, sold them and "upgraded" to daiwa entoh, biggest mistake I've made for a long time, sent those piles of **** back and bought some more penns. These are the mk2 version, and they don't really appear to be any different to the original ones except you don't get 2 handles and a spare spool now
In reply to Post #10
I though the new ones did not come with spare spool but the old ones did.
I have got the 8000 version and have used them fishing in cape verde for sharks and they coped fine where are another reel sounds like a coffee grinder now after 2 weeks use there.
the penn coped with being dropped in the sand and rinsed in the swimming pool still as smooth as ever
I though the new ones did not come with spare spool but the old ones did.
I have got the 8000 version and have used them fishing in cape verde for sharks and they coped fine where are another reel sounds like a coffee grinder now after 2 weeks use there.
the penn coped with being dropped in the sand and rinsed in the swimming pool still as smooth as ever
In reply to Post #9
As Ian just pointed out mate, they're certainly capable. The issues arise if and when you do something stupid and break one, or one develops a fault (even the best product can have a few lemons slip through) with no spares available.
To be fair I'd have thought this is true for every company out there, with a few models supported well with spares and others being almost disposable; after all, very few people actually run anything into the ground these days. One look at the 2nd hand market tells you that..
Not sure there's is really enough difference between all the modern low-mid priced reels to recommend one over the other 
As Ian just pointed out mate, they're certainly capable. The issues arise if and when you do something stupid and break one, or one develops a fault (even the best product can have a few lemons slip through) with no spares available.
To be fair I'd have thought this is true for every company out there, with a few models supported well with spares and others being almost disposable; after all, very few people actually run anything into the ground these days. One look at the 2nd hand market tells you that..
Not sure there's is really enough difference between all the modern low-mid priced reels to recommend one over the other
In reply to Post #11
They don't mate, that's what I meant. Old ones had spare spool, new don't
They don't mate, that's what I meant. Old ones had spare spool, new don't
In reply to Post #12
What makes you think that you won't be able to get spares?
What makes you think that you won't be able to get spares?
Still over the moon with mine nothing worn or broken
In reply to Post #1
Love them as reels and built to last but I just couldn't, get on with QD so got shim long cast bait runners then Penn released them in bait runner typical . still use them for piking and built to last
enough lovers on this site as all the threads will tell you
Love them as reels and built to last but I just couldn't, get on with QD so got shim long cast bait runners then Penn released them in bait runner typical . still use them for piking and built to last
enough lovers on this site as all the threads will tell you
In reply to Post #16
I have had the Penn affinity Ltd 8000 since I think 2015? and they seem bomb proof been using them on my pike rods in all conditions and not one issue, line lay superb, clutch is QD and for the money brilliant only thing I wish I had done was got the 7000 as the 8000 are big!
I have had the Penn affinity Ltd 8000 since I think 2015? and they seem bomb proof been using them on my pike rods in all conditions and not one issue, line lay superb, clutch is QD and for the money brilliant only thing I wish I had done was got the 7000 as the 8000 are big!
Ive got the 7000 size ones had them a year now and they've been faultless that much so I prefer them to my shimannos better reel imho
Had my 7000 when first came out , used them ever since , sold all my others , tournaments , ect.
A no nonsense reel at a no nonsense price .
Even friends have bought them and no faults .
A no nonsense reel at a no nonsense price .
Even friends have bought them and no faults .
Ive got the 7000 size ones had them a year now and they've been faultless that much so I prefer them to my shimannos better reel imho
In reply to Post #20
I bought the 8000's when they came out, even though people said they were massive, sold them, they
never missed a beat, bought the 7000ltd liveliner's and these have been superb
I bought the 8000's when they came out, even though people said they were massive, sold them, they
never missed a beat, bought the 7000ltd liveliner's and these have been superb
Another mk1 7000 user, couple of months off two years
Absolutely faultless, wish I had bought them when they first came out.
Dunno what I'd do if I was to loose / break them as from what ive heard the mk2 is not as good
Absolutely faultless, wish I had bought them when they first came out.
Dunno what I'd do if I was to loose / break them as from what ive heard the mk2 is not as good
In reply to Post #22
I've had both, and there isn't any difference between mk 1&2
I've had both, and there isn't any difference between mk 1&2
In reply to Post #23
Cheers for that, wont have to worry then
Cheers for that, wont have to worry then
Sorry quick question how much of a turn or turns is the QD on the 7000 from freespool to locked up.
In reply to Post #25
Thanks for the input lads, nice to see its pretty much all positive too.
Based on the replies, I've just bought four
Thanks again.
Thanks for the input lads, nice to see its pretty much all positive too.
Based on the replies, I've just bought four
Thanks again.
In reply to Post #26
Why do people bang on about Shimano and Daiwa as if they are the only manufacturers out there and all others are crap.
Penn are a long established make (1920's) with a huge following worldwide, especially in the "big fish, light line world, with 1,400 IGFA world records to their name. The quality is not in doubt at all.
After sales service is second to none and Penn actually hold the record for the most reels sold for a particular model and the longest running model that remains unchanged. (The spinfisher, released in 1961 and still sold).
Penn tried to break into the carp market in the UK in the 90's. The chap who owned Penn UK at the time produced a big pit reel in matt black, but the UK carpers turned there nose up at it. This reel was then adapted and became a surf reel, The Surfbuster. He still uses the original black prototypes himself. They are superbly smooth after all these years. It was well ahead of the Shimano Biomasters and Daiwa Baboons that were popular back then.
They are still way ahead of many top end reels. I would not worry about "quality" with the Affinity.
Why do people bang on about Shimano and Daiwa as if they are the only manufacturers out there and all others are crap.
Penn are a long established make (1920's) with a huge following worldwide, especially in the "big fish, light line world, with 1,400 IGFA world records to their name. The quality is not in doubt at all.
After sales service is second to none and Penn actually hold the record for the most reels sold for a particular model and the longest running model that remains unchanged. (The spinfisher, released in 1961 and still sold).
Penn tried to break into the carp market in the UK in the 90's. The chap who owned Penn UK at the time produced a big pit reel in matt black, but the UK carpers turned there nose up at it. This reel was then adapted and became a surf reel, The Surfbuster. He still uses the original black prototypes himself. They are superbly smooth after all these years. It was well ahead of the Shimano Biomasters and Daiwa Baboons that were popular back then.
They are still way ahead of many top end reels. I would not worry about "quality" with the Affinity.
In reply to Post #27
What you may not know is that Penn reels are now mainly mass produced in China not built in the USA any more , I have 2 x 525 mags built in USA( multipliers ) and absolutely love them , they are bombproof, yet the newer ones made in China are not in the same league .
I'm not having a go at anything made in China before anyone starts ! I'm just stating they aren't USA build quality any more , same with some Daiwa and Shimano being built in Malaysia etc ....
What you may not know is that Penn reels are now mainly mass produced in China not built in the USA any more , I have 2 x 525 mags built in USA( multipliers ) and absolutely love them , they are bombproof, yet the newer ones made in China are not in the same league .
I'm not having a go at anything made in China before anyone starts ! I'm just stating they aren't USA build quality any more , same with some Daiwa and Shimano being built in Malaysia etc ....
In reply to Post #25
Depending on how loose you want freespool, around 1/2-3/4 of a turn
Depending on how loose you want freespool, around 1/2-3/4 of a turn
In reply to Post #28
Sign of the times...Abu did the same but soon regretted it. The top end Penn reels are still US made.
Sign of the times...Abu did the same but soon regretted it. The top end Penn reels are still US made.
I don't think it matters where anything is made, if its made right. I believe the daiwa entoh is a Japan made reel, and the set I bought last year were nowhere near as well made as the affinity they replaced, or the new ones I've got now
Don't suppose any one knows if the spools are the same on the affinity 2s as the later model ltds in the 7000 size cheers
In reply to Post #31
Absolutely. It depends on the QC and practices that are in place at the factory. Same applies to bikes. There's top-end, high quality carbon frames made with quality carbon in a clean, modern factory and then there's cheap crap made in a sweat shop somewhere. Any brand relying on OEM manufacturing would have done stringent checks to make sure the quality is to spec.
Absolutely. It depends on the QC and practices that are in place at the factory. Same applies to bikes. There's top-end, high quality carbon frames made with quality carbon in a clean, modern factory and then there's cheap crap made in a sweat shop somewhere. Any brand relying on OEM manufacturing would have done stringent checks to make sure the quality is to spec.
i like these reels, much better than my 170 quid shimanos when i had them,but ive also been a longterm okuma big pit fan , there light and strong with stunning line lay but the line would go behind the spool easy, and thats a nightmare at times, so i got the penn 7000, with the wiper blade system,and bugga me it stops it 100 % so im very happy, only problem is 1 reel has been a bit less smooth from new, but still good strong reels, and the wiper is great feature
In reply to Post #34
Did you buy the wiper blades with the reels or separately from somewhere else?
Did you buy the wiper blades with the reels or separately from somewhere else?
In reply to Post #35
They are on them already
They are on them already
In reply to Post #36
Bit of a bargain at £80 I'd say. Plenty of bang for buck there.
Bit of a bargain at £80 I'd say. Plenty of bang for buck there.
In reply to Post #36
Good news indeed
Good news indeed
In reply to Post #37
Yes, might have to flog my 5500's ASAP.
Yes, might have to flog my 5500's ASAP.
In reply to Post #39
Had mine a week or so now, 4 trips fishing. They are the best reels for the money I've had, not too big, but big enough. Spool good for 100 yard casting, lighter than I thought, terrific drag, and simple QD operation. I've had some of the expensive Shimanos too heavy, Daiwa too expensive, look at the crazy prices for the old kit Daiwa reels just to look a proper carper. No these are great reels and I'd guess long lasting.
Had mine a week or so now, 4 trips fishing. They are the best reels for the money I've had, not too big, but big enough. Spool good for 100 yard casting, lighter than I thought, terrific drag, and simple QD operation. I've had some of the expensive Shimanos too heavy, Daiwa too expensive, look at the crazy prices for the old kit Daiwa reels just to look a proper carper. No these are great reels and I'd guess long lasting.
In reply to Post #40
Great reels, echo what everyone else has said.
Great reels, echo what everyone else has said.
In reply to Post #40
Top end shimanos are not heavy.
And the old daiwa reels that are still in production and costly for the ‘technology' are expensive because they're not built to fall apart, are incredibly well supported with spares from the manufacturer and won't be obsolete in a few years like Penn seem to be doing.
Thought you had just got okuma reels and written a glowing review of those?
Top end shimanos are not heavy.
And the old daiwa reels that are still in production and costly for the ‘technology' are expensive because they're not built to fall apart, are incredibly well supported with spares from the manufacturer and won't be obsolete in a few years like Penn seem to be doing.
Thought you had just got okuma reels and written a glowing review of those?
In reply to Post #43
food for thought. I want something with a long spool for casting if I have to. The pit I am on sometimes requires a 120yd chuck when the fish are at range.
food for thought. I want something with a long spool for casting if I have to. The pit I am on sometimes requires a 120yd chuck when the fish are at range.
Just seen a video teaser of the new penn affinities, have to say they look the nuts.
In reply to Post #45
Where did you see the vid mate? Link?
Where did you see the vid mate? Link?
In reply to Post #46
Can't do links sorry but jrc shared it on fb earlier its called the affinity 2 custom carbon edition I think.
Edit easier to find on penn fishing fb page I think.
Can't do links sorry but jrc shared it on fb earlier its called the affinity 2 custom carbon edition I think.
Edit easier to find on penn fishing fb page I think.
In reply to Post #47
OK cheers mate
OK cheers mate
Does this have the folding handle like the Affinity 2?
In reply to Post #49
Sorry it doesn't show it folding on the vids or mention it on the brief list of features, but it's got lots of carbon fibre lol, if your on fb take a look.
Sorry it doesn't show it folding on the vids or mention it on the brief list of features, but it's got lots of carbon fibre lol, if your on fb take a look.
In reply to Post #50
Had a look yesterday. Looks good but a deal breaker if it doesn't have a folding handle. Don't want to look tarty but with big pits my bars are too narrow for three reels so need a folding handle. The Affinity 2 has one and its cheap right now so may just go for that as the shiny new carbon ones will be more money.
Had a look yesterday. Looks good but a deal breaker if it doesn't have a folding handle. Don't want to look tarty but with big pits my bars are too narrow for three reels so need a folding handle. The Affinity 2 has one and its cheap right now so may just go for that as the shiny new carbon ones will be more money.
Only thing I don't like about the affinity II's is the way the handle folds. Fine in the warmer months but it seizes up a bit in the winter.
Anyone know if you can swap the arms?
Anyone know if you can swap the arms?
In reply to Post #52
They did quick release and a standard where you Have to unscrew the other side to fold the ha down
They did quick release and a standard where you Have to unscrew the other side to fold the ha down
New ones look very cool with the carbon fibre. If I didn't already use a set of 7000s I'd definitely be looking at these new ones.
Any prices on the new Penns yet
Does anyone know how the Penn 7000s compare in size to the Onyx Compact reels? Had a play with the Onyx but no stock of the Penns local to me for a comparison
In reply to Post #56
Penns are a little bigger than the compact onyx
Penns are a little bigger than the compact onyx
In reply to Post #57
Thankyou
Thankyou
Which one (7000 or 8000) would compare to the size of tournament 6000's?
Cheers
Cheers
In reply to Post #59
I would say the 8000 penn would compare better to the 6000 tourny, imo the 7000 penn is a nice size general carp reel probably more comparable to a 5000 tourny size wise
I would say the 8000 penn would compare better to the 6000 tourny, imo the 7000 penn is a nice size general carp reel probably more comparable to a 5000 tourny size wise
In reply to Post #59
Not seen tourney 6000s in the flesh, but id be surprised if they were as big as the 8000 penn. They are massive. The 7000 is more a standard sized big pit
Not seen tourney 6000s in the flesh, but id be surprised if they were as big as the 8000 penn. They are massive. The 7000 is more a standard sized big pit
In reply to Post #1
Sold Shimano baby pits for these reels last summer because I was trying to be tarty - terrible decision
Sold Shimano baby pits for these reels last summer because I was trying to be tarty - terrible decision
In reply to Post #62
Why?
Why?
In reply to Post #62
The Penn is not a baby pit though
The Penn is not a baby pit though
In reply to Post #1
Had my Penns for a while now and think they're great for the price.
The only small gripe I have is that the handles have faded in the sun and gone from black, to a copper colour.
Had my Penns for a while now and think they're great for the price.
The only small gripe I have is that the handles have faded in the sun and gone from black, to a copper colour.
In reply to Post #65
do you find the handle fold is easy to push back, mine are very stiff to push in and can be tuff to do, apart from that for 75 a reel i think there good value
do you find the handle fold is easy to push back, mine are very stiff to push in and can be tuff to do, apart from that for 75 a reel i think there good value
In reply to Post #66
Mine are fine to fold back
Mine are fine to fold back
In reply to Post #67
Has anyone used the new carbon version yet?
Has anyone used the new carbon version yet?
In reply to Post #68
..
..
In reply to Post #42
Recently, I had an accident with the barrow where it fell over and rolled through 180 degrees, knackering the bail arm on one of my 22 year old Tournies in the process (which, incidentally, have never had a service but are still going strong.) I sent the knackered one back to Daiwa and it was returned within a week, fixed up spot on, and zero charge, not even for postage. Now that is top drawer service, well impressed.
Recently, I had an accident with the barrow where it fell over and rolled through 180 degrees, knackering the bail arm on one of my 22 year old Tournies in the process (which, incidentally, have never had a service but are still going strong.) I sent the knackered one back to Daiwa and it was returned within a week, fixed up spot on, and zero charge, not even for postage. Now that is top drawer service, well impressed.
Whats the difference between the 7000 mk1 and the mk2.
In reply to Post #68
Yes I have.
🤣
Yes I have.
🤣
In reply to Post #72
Good.. Are you happy?
Do the handles fold down easily or do you have to unscrew them from the other side?
Good.. Are you happy?
Do the handles fold down easily or do you have to unscrew them from the other side?
In reply to Post #71
Mk1 came with spare spool and two handles, wood or plastic.
Mk1 came with spare spool and two handles, wood or plastic.
In reply to Post #74
Never got wooden handles with my mark 1s. Did buy second hand, makes me wonder what the bloke did with them
Never got wooden handles with my mark 1s. Did buy second hand, makes me wonder what the bloke did with them
In reply to Post #75
I bought mk1's brand new and only got spools. No wooden handles. Think it was the slightly later ones that came with 2 handles but no spare spools.
I bought mk1's brand new and only got spools. No wooden handles. Think it was the slightly later ones that came with 2 handles but no spare spools.
My mk1s came with spare spools and 2 handles, wood and plastic.
In reply to Post #77
My affinitys came with only spare spools i have The Grey ones think The Black ones came with extra handle.
My affinitys came with only spare spools i have The Grey ones think The Black ones came with extra handle.
In reply to Post #76
Nope, all the mk1 came with spools and handles. Most likely someone with sticky fingers had the wooden ones for their own reels
Nope, all the mk1 came with spools and handles. Most likely someone with sticky fingers had the wooden ones for their own reels
In reply to Post #74
So apart from spare spool and extra handles are the mk1 and mk2 reels the same.
So apart from spare spool and extra handles are the mk1 and mk2 reels the same.
In reply to Post #80
Pretty much, slightly different drag knob on the front
Pretty much, slightly different drag knob on the front
In reply to Post #81
But same drag, bearings, reel quality etc. Cheers.
But same drag, bearings, reel quality etc. Cheers.
In reply to Post #82
Stronger main shaft on mk2,had issues with flexing on mk1.I was told this by their sales rep
Stronger main shaft on mk2,had issues with flexing on mk1.I was told this by their sales rep
In reply to Post #83
Really? God knows what people were doing to bend the shafts on the mk1, I found them strong as anything and had cats to over 60"lb on them with no damage
Really? God knows what people were doing to bend the shafts on the mk1, I found them strong as anything and had cats to over 60"lb on them with no damage
In reply to Post #82
Yeah drag, line lay etc all still superb
Yeah drag, line lay etc all still superb
In reply to Post #84
I asked the same question when I got the mk2s for a mate from the shop I go.The rep would not go into too much detail about it
I asked the same question when I got the mk2s for a mate from the shop I go.The rep would not go into too much detail about it
In reply to Post #86
And after these years of using them, guys: are they still 'silent" reels?
I always have used Shimano (higher end reels) and once had a Daiwa Infinity baitrunner reel. What I noticed the Daiwa reels all sound like squeeky, knocking coffee grinders after some use (watch some Korda videos of the high profile anglers). This while my Shimano's are still in great shape and are still silent when winding in. So Daiwa isn't in the picture for me.
Just tried a Penn Affinity 3 in my local shop and I was impressed. Felt very good and quality.
How do there sound after some use?
And after these years of using them, guys: are they still 'silent" reels?
I always have used Shimano (higher end reels) and once had a Daiwa Infinity baitrunner reel. What I noticed the Daiwa reels all sound like squeeky, knocking coffee grinders after some use (watch some Korda videos of the high profile anglers). This while my Shimano's are still in great shape and are still silent when winding in. So Daiwa isn't in the picture for me.
Just tried a Penn Affinity 3 in my local shop and I was impressed. Felt very good and quality.
How do there sound after some use?
In reply to Post #87
Mine still work as new and I haven't had them serviced since owning them
Mine still work as new and I haven't had them serviced since owning them
In reply to Post #88
I posted on here 3 years ago, mine are still superb
I posted on here 3 years ago, mine are still superb
In reply to Post #87
Mine have been used and abused week in week out for years and are still perfect, done zero maintenance on them.
Mine have been used and abused week in week out for years and are still perfect, done zero maintenance on them.
In reply to Post #90
Great, thanks for your input guys. I appreciate it.
Great, thanks for your input guys. I appreciate it.
In reply to Post #90
Know of any outlets that do the spare spools?
Know of any outlets that do the spare spools?
In reply to Post #92
They come up on eBay occasionally. Apart from that I've struggled to find anyone. Jim's Reel Shop website says they have them, but they don't.
They come up on eBay occasionally. Apart from that I've struggled to find anyone. Jim's Reel Shop website says they have them, but they don't.
In reply to Post #93
Yup! I found that out too with Jim. Nowhere else I can see them. From my understanding it's a reel that was produced for the European market and has now been discontinued.
Yup! I found that out too with Jim. Nowhere else I can see them. From my understanding it's a reel that was produced for the European market and has now been discontinued.
In reply to Post #94
One more thing guys; read reports of the reels handle turning a copper color. Did your reels suffer from that too?
One more thing guys; read reports of the reels handle turning a copper color. Did your reels suffer from that too?
In reply to Post #95
Nope. Not yet anyway
Nope. Not yet anyway
In reply to Post #95
Mine haven't
Mine haven't
In reply to Post #97
Okay, thanks for that knowledge.
I saw it mentioned a few times and then I noticed this picture: picture
Okay, thanks for that knowledge.
I saw it mentioned a few times and then I noticed this picture: picture
In reply to Post #98
I have had my Penn affinity carbon black reels for about 2 years now, they have been brilliant... One thing though on one reel, when the clutch is loose it doesn't go as loose as the other two, I'm not sure why atm?
I have had my Penn affinity carbon black reels for about 2 years now, they have been brilliant... One thing though on one reel, when the clutch is loose it doesn't go as loose as the other two, I'm not sure why atm?
In reply to Post #95
I have seen that in pictures but not on my ones.
I have seen that in pictures but not on my ones.
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