In reply to Post #96
😂
😂
In reply to Post #97
Since you have named him. Until very recently Tom Maker was saying all you need is hemp corn and whatever boilie he was sponsored by. Even if he did only use a handful of worms . In all the this is my spod mix clips he wasn't telling the truth. But let's be honest that's sponsored anglers all over.
I think Kenny Gates hit the nail on the head that some people won't fish carp matches because of this. I realy hope it's not as widespread as it sounds. A sad day for fishing.
Since you have named him. Until very recently Tom Maker was saying all you need is hemp corn and whatever boilie he was sponsored by. Even if he did only use a handful of worms . In all the this is my spod mix clips he wasn't telling the truth. But let's be honest that's sponsored anglers all over.
I think Kenny Gates hit the nail on the head that some people won't fish carp matches because of this. I realy hope it's not as widespread as it sounds. A sad day for fishing.
Right OK. There must be more people out there like me who haven't a ****ing clue what's going on and who are all these people 
. I've been carp fishing since the mid 70's, keep myself to myself, don't do social media apart from a couple of Forums and thought a pod was a group of dolphins.
So I've managed to understand there's a use of hormones, possibly used in the vetinary trade or equine trade being used to stimulate carp into feeding, worms being the delivery method maybe. The use of this is split into 3 ethical problems.
A. The potential damage to fish stocks (although I've not seen any science to back this up on here). Not dismissing this at all, as it is very scary, but not seen anything on here.
B. The ethics of cheating in a competition (although these aren't actually banned or illegal as such yet as far as I'm aware. Again I'm not being dismissive but just asking for clarification..
C. The ethics of big name companies who know, may know, or encourage said use of these products for their own gain or just sticking their heads in the sand not to ‘rock the boat.
The last bit is who the **** are all these people. They don't exist in my world.
So who are the following and what are their roles in all this. Who is the bloke in the picture ( in the original thread last year named as the ‘Red Faced Man'?
Tom Maker
Kev Hewitt
Mark Bartlett
Wayne's Mansford
Ryan Need
Mick Perry
Kenny Gates
Are Nash and Korda being named as in the know or worse?
Can someone shed some light in an accurate and concise way for the likes of me and I suspect many others.
. I've been carp fishing since the mid 70's, keep myself to myself, don't do social media apart from a couple of Forums and thought a pod was a group of dolphins.So I've managed to understand there's a use of hormones, possibly used in the vetinary trade or equine trade being used to stimulate carp into feeding, worms being the delivery method maybe. The use of this is split into 3 ethical problems.
A. The potential damage to fish stocks (although I've not seen any science to back this up on here). Not dismissing this at all, as it is very scary, but not seen anything on here.
B. The ethics of cheating in a competition (although these aren't actually banned or illegal as such yet as far as I'm aware. Again I'm not being dismissive but just asking for clarification..
C. The ethics of big name companies who know, may know, or encourage said use of these products for their own gain or just sticking their heads in the sand not to ‘rock the boat.
The last bit is who the **** are all these people. They don't exist in my world.
So who are the following and what are their roles in all this. Who is the bloke in the picture ( in the original thread last year named as the ‘Red Faced Man'?
Tom Maker
Kev Hewitt
Mark Bartlett
Wayne's Mansford
Ryan Need
Mick Perry
Kenny Gates
Are Nash and Korda being named as in the know or worse?
Can someone shed some light in an accurate and concise way for the likes of me and I suspect many others.
In reply to Post #100
Tbh mate I think it's social media doing its thing, I don't really care to find out.
A comment earlier in the thread, testing for hormones in water...what a absolute joke, just think about that for 1 min. Most of the meat we eat probably has growth hormones that we pee on the bank, then there's the fish meal in our baits, salmon etc, then there's the water we bring from home, probably full of oestrogen and then the overflow from sewers, farms, pee from people taking steroids.....where does it end...if you wanted to find it you could.
Will future fish records only be ratified from growth hormone free samples. How long will it be before someone accuses a genuine home grown Carp of being on steroids? Let's face it, selective breeding is genetic manipulation and we already do that everywhere.
Like you, I just hope there are more anglers out there who don't subscribe to all this jealousy crap and witch hunting. I bet if Korda were accused directly they'd 1st call you out and then their lawyers would find you. I suspect those sorts of anglers to be too busy fishing to bother with this.
Tbh mate I think it's social media doing its thing, I don't really care to find out.
A comment earlier in the thread, testing for hormones in water...what a absolute joke, just think about that for 1 min. Most of the meat we eat probably has growth hormones that we pee on the bank, then there's the fish meal in our baits, salmon etc, then there's the water we bring from home, probably full of oestrogen and then the overflow from sewers, farms, pee from people taking steroids.....where does it end...if you wanted to find it you could.
Will future fish records only be ratified from growth hormone free samples. How long will it be before someone accuses a genuine home grown Carp of being on steroids? Let's face it, selective breeding is genetic manipulation and we already do that everywhere.
Like you, I just hope there are more anglers out there who don't subscribe to all this jealousy crap and witch hunting. I bet if Korda were accused directly they'd 1st call you out and then their lawyers would find you. I suspect those sorts of anglers to be too busy fishing to bother with this.
In reply to Post #95
I remember that, “how not to play poker”
Or he dropped to sleep in the sun
I remember that, “how not to play poker”
Or he dropped to sleep in the sun
In reply to Post #102
Kevin Ellis was ****ing himself at the thought of saying something challenging and meaningful.
Kevin Ellis was ****ing himself at the thought of saying something challenging and meaningful.
In reply to Post #102
The Kev Ellis Asylum ii vid describes eDNA, a process of testing water to ID species within. Its used all the time in ecology and development. No longer need to catch/not catch great crested newts. Just test the water and discover. I'm not sure if hormones can be discovered or not via eDNA. I'll find out but it's certainly not what it's made for. The test is to find DNA shed by organisms not hormones.
The Kev Ellis Asylum ii vid describes eDNA, a process of testing water to ID species within. Its used all the time in ecology and development. No longer need to catch/not catch great crested newts. Just test the water and discover. I'm not sure if hormones can be discovered or not via eDNA. I'll find out but it's certainly not what it's made for. The test is to find DNA shed by organisms not hormones.
In reply to Post #104
You can just test the water for the substance/hormone that is suspected to have been used. Like you said eDNA isn't suitable for this. You'd have to test for specific things though.
Main issue would be the life of the substance. It may be undetectable after a short period. eDNA it's 48hrs.
With testing you also wouldn't be able to attribute it to anyone, not solidly. You'd just have to accuse whoever is catching the most. All still deniable
You can just test the water for the substance/hormone that is suspected to have been used. Like you said eDNA isn't suitable for this. You'd have to test for specific things though.
Main issue would be the life of the substance. It may be undetectable after a short period. eDNA it's 48hrs.
With testing you also wouldn't be able to attribute it to anyone, not solidly. You'd just have to accuse whoever is catching the most. All still deniable
I was talking to someone about these Hormones in September last year. He told me quite a few things and they all sounded plausible.
Using a couple of 'keywords' he mentioned to me I immediately found this video.
When listening to this video, remember this fact (source Google):
"Lake Sorell is a large (53 square kilometres), shallow lake at an elevation of 800m above sea level. Closed to fishing in 1995 due to the discovery of European carp, the lake was reopened in 2020."
Now watch this video (video from circa 2010, so this is not a NEW substance):
So, Lake Sorell is no puddle....and they are using this hormone to attract and capture the lakes remaining "few dozen adults"??
I'd say that's a pretty potent trick to have up your sleeve, wouldn't you?
I was also told that initially the hormone was added to the bait, but the anglers using it realised that once the bait was eaten, the hormone wasn't in the water anymore, so it's effectiveness as an attractant was then reduced.
That's when they started adding it to a carrier.
What would be a good carrier?
Anyone who has match fished for silvers might remember anglers using leam (soil) to darken the water, add cloud etc.
When I was a lad (many years ago) I would go collect soil from mole heaves to use in my groundbait.
Anyhow, using soil is a great way to put a bed of attraction in a swim.
Worms come in soil....
I am not suggesting this has definitely happened, and I am certainly not going to name names as everything is hearsay and I wouldn't want anybody's reputation to be marred when they may well be innocent.
I'm just saying it could be possible that someone / somewhere was getting hold of this stuff. Apparently vets can get hold of it and it's around £60 a litre.
I've never mentioned any of this before as the last thing I would want would be for people to start investigating how to get hold of this stuff and ruining carp fishing for everyone, on every water. However, it would appear from what has been said below that a lot of the 'clues' about this stuff have already been put out there by other media sources.
Using a couple of 'keywords' he mentioned to me I immediately found this video.
When listening to this video, remember this fact (source Google):
"Lake Sorell is a large (53 square kilometres), shallow lake at an elevation of 800m above sea level. Closed to fishing in 1995 due to the discovery of European carp, the lake was reopened in 2020."
Now watch this video (video from circa 2010, so this is not a NEW substance):
So, Lake Sorell is no puddle....and they are using this hormone to attract and capture the lakes remaining "few dozen adults"??
I'd say that's a pretty potent trick to have up your sleeve, wouldn't you?
I was also told that initially the hormone was added to the bait, but the anglers using it realised that once the bait was eaten, the hormone wasn't in the water anymore, so it's effectiveness as an attractant was then reduced.
That's when they started adding it to a carrier.
What would be a good carrier?
Anyone who has match fished for silvers might remember anglers using leam (soil) to darken the water, add cloud etc.
When I was a lad (many years ago) I would go collect soil from mole heaves to use in my groundbait.
Anyhow, using soil is a great way to put a bed of attraction in a swim.
Worms come in soil....
I am not suggesting this has definitely happened, and I am certainly not going to name names as everything is hearsay and I wouldn't want anybody's reputation to be marred when they may well be innocent.
I'm just saying it could be possible that someone / somewhere was getting hold of this stuff. Apparently vets can get hold of it and it's around £60 a litre.
I've never mentioned any of this before as the last thing I would want would be for people to start investigating how to get hold of this stuff and ruining carp fishing for everyone, on every water. However, it would appear from what has been said below that a lot of the 'clues' about this stuff have already been put out there by other media sources.
In reply to Post #100
Lets' just start saying it as it is shall we and stop talking in veiled speech.
Basically - allegedly, the claim is that people have been using Lutalyse which is a hormone induced synthetic drug predominantly used on horses and pigs to enduce labour, it's part of the PGF2a synthetic hormone. Gives out the signal to males that the females are on heat and also creates breeding activity in females. Can only be issued via a vet on subscription and usually injected into the animal as the gear can be absorbed through skin.
As has been eluded to, the gear could probably be injected into PVA bags or mixed up with crumb, soil (with worms in that absorb it) to create a signal and draw fish into your area which then go berserk as they think it's breeding time and give off more pheromones which drags more fish in...e.t.c. e.t.c, before you know it you have the majority of the stock of the lake in front of your swim going nuts. My guess is that it's the same gear used in that video and injected into females in those traps to bring in the males and other females.
Has it been used in Carp Fishing - my guess would be YES. The catch at all cost, full timing, social media craving ilk of clowns now in Carp Fishing would do anything for an extra pack of hooks. Ethics in this once great pastime has long gone. Carp fishing is now a full on business for a lot of people with a lot of money involved - this creates competition and greed.
Worms.....uh, righto then...
Lets' just start saying it as it is shall we and stop talking in veiled speech.
Basically - allegedly, the claim is that people have been using Lutalyse which is a hormone induced synthetic drug predominantly used on horses and pigs to enduce labour, it's part of the PGF2a synthetic hormone. Gives out the signal to males that the females are on heat and also creates breeding activity in females. Can only be issued via a vet on subscription and usually injected into the animal as the gear can be absorbed through skin.
As has been eluded to, the gear could probably be injected into PVA bags or mixed up with crumb, soil (with worms in that absorb it) to create a signal and draw fish into your area which then go berserk as they think it's breeding time and give off more pheromones which drags more fish in...e.t.c. e.t.c, before you know it you have the majority of the stock of the lake in front of your swim going nuts. My guess is that it's the same gear used in that video and injected into females in those traps to bring in the males and other females.
Has it been used in Carp Fishing - my guess would be YES. The catch at all cost, full timing, social media craving ilk of clowns now in Carp Fishing would do anything for an extra pack of hooks. Ethics in this once great pastime has long gone. Carp fishing is now a full on business for a lot of people with a lot of money involved - this creates competition and greed.
Worms.....uh, righto then...
In reply to Post #107
If true, lovely stuff...
https://www.zoetisus.com/content/_assets/docs/vmips/safety-data-sheets/lutalyse.pdf
If true, lovely stuff...
https://www.zoetisus.com/content/_assets/docs/vmips/safety-data-sheets/lutalyse.pdf
In reply to Post #108
I don't know Beyonce - if true, it's a sad state of affairs mate. I wouldn't put it past anyone though. Walk around any lake nowadays and it's rammed out - people that use fishing as their income need to rise above it and look for the extra edge or what we used to call "stroke pulling". Way to many good anglers nowadays and in my opinion it is an equal playing field. Gone are the days of full timers on the dole having the lakes to themselves all week until the weekend crew rocks up. This used to be their biggest edge.
Needs to be called out though if it is being used and not spoken about in the shadows as it will **** up all our waters and bring the end of carp angling as we know it.
I don't know Beyonce - if true, it's a sad state of affairs mate. I wouldn't put it past anyone though. Walk around any lake nowadays and it's rammed out - people that use fishing as their income need to rise above it and look for the extra edge or what we used to call "stroke pulling". Way to many good anglers nowadays and in my opinion it is an equal playing field. Gone are the days of full timers on the dole having the lakes to themselves all week until the weekend crew rocks up. This used to be their biggest edge.
Needs to be called out though if it is being used and not spoken about in the shadows as it will **** up all our waters and bring the end of carp angling as we know it.
In reply to Post #103
For evil to exist takes good men to do nothing.
For evil to exist takes good men to do nothing.
In reply to Post #103
Come on lads, call it out when you see it. It happened on a local lake and nobody stood up to the guy, including the owner. In the end the lad got wind and didn't come back, calling everyone childish and jealous. His insta-entourage backed him up.
Come on lads, call it out when you see it. It happened on a local lake and nobody stood up to the guy, including the owner. In the end the lad got wind and didn't come back, calling everyone childish and jealous. His insta-entourage backed him up.
Lovely. I'll be locking myself in the bog and power reading Casting At The Sun now.