So to put it into some form of context, I'm on a large expanse of water and fishing a 3 rod set up. Right hand rod is at 300yds,using a bait boat due to distance and a sonar used because my eyes don't work underwater at that distance, middle rod is at 120yds on a feature I've found with the lead and baited and cast to, baited up by spodding/spombing out bait, and the left rod is an overhead lob into a flat featureless area about 25yds out as I know fish pass through this area. All my baits are home made on a recipe I've honed and tweaked over the years.There's only me and 1 other angler on the lake ( mid week in winter) and he's half a mile away. He's set up on a ‘lazy swim' by the car park hoping to attract a fish because a lot of bait goes into this ‘lazy' area. He has used the page 6 approach from Carpology which is a Ronnie rig, a shop bought bait and PVA stick with Goo approach and fished to a lake marker pole denoting the left boundary of his swim about 40 yds out. We all catch 1 fish per rod. So according to this thread the following merit should be awarded:
1st is my middle rod fish as I've leaded, cast and baited at distance.
2nd is my left hand rod as I've put in the effort to boat across a huge lake with all my gear, used my hard earned knowledge to lob out a bait to a patrol route and baited up by hand.
3rd 4th & 5th is the Carpology lad fishing from the carp park, because he cast out his rods but has put in little effort otherwise, putting his faith that the ‘ lazy' swim because it sees a fair bit of bait.
6th is my carefully positioned 300yd rod on an old roadway which exists at the bottom of this gravel pit because it was the route the heavy excavators and trucks used before it was flooded. The packed earth means the weed doesn't grow so a natural clear spot. I found this with a rowing boat and Aqua scope and bait boat and spent a week mapping both by sonar and by eye and now use this knowledge to maximise my catches
There's roughly 90 acres left unfished. This is a true scenario, other than to even it up I've given the other lad an extra couple of fish to make it even - he caught 1.
So the rod which I've invested the most time and effort in is deemed the least in merit order. I like casting and will often fish like this. It doesn't make sense to me TBH.
1st is my middle rod fish as I've leaded, cast and baited at distance.
2nd is my left hand rod as I've put in the effort to boat across a huge lake with all my gear, used my hard earned knowledge to lob out a bait to a patrol route and baited up by hand.
3rd 4th & 5th is the Carpology lad fishing from the carp park, because he cast out his rods but has put in little effort otherwise, putting his faith that the ‘ lazy' swim because it sees a fair bit of bait.
6th is my carefully positioned 300yd rod on an old roadway which exists at the bottom of this gravel pit because it was the route the heavy excavators and trucks used before it was flooded. The packed earth means the weed doesn't grow so a natural clear spot. I found this with a rowing boat and Aqua scope and bait boat and spent a week mapping both by sonar and by eye and now use this knowledge to maximise my catches
There's roughly 90 acres left unfished. This is a true scenario, other than to even it up I've given the other lad an extra couple of fish to make it even - he caught 1.
So the rod which I've invested the most time and effort in is deemed the least in merit order. I like casting and will often fish like this. It doesn't make sense to me TBH.
In reply to Post #76
Doesn't matter, you're a wrong 'un and need to be banned from everywhere and everything.
HTH.
Doesn't matter, you're a wrong 'un and need to be banned from everywhere and everything.
HTH.
I think bait boats probably are the accepted norm these days like it or not.
I'm lucky, my water has a ban on all radio controlled devices, which suits me just fine.
At the end of the day I guess it's personal preference.
For me catching a fish while using one would take away some of the sense of achievement & it would play on my conscience. For others they just see it as another tool in their arsenal & I see the argument for both sides.
I enjoy the whole ritual of the analogue way of fishing. Then I do use buzzers, so I suppose that makes me a hypocrite.
Maybe when I'm old & knackered I'll think about getting one, but for now, I'll enjoy the legitimate captures.
I'm lucky, my water has a ban on all radio controlled devices, which suits me just fine.
At the end of the day I guess it's personal preference.
For me catching a fish while using one would take away some of the sense of achievement & it would play on my conscience. For others they just see it as another tool in their arsenal & I see the argument for both sides.
I enjoy the whole ritual of the analogue way of fishing. Then I do use buzzers, so I suppose that makes me a hypocrite.
Maybe when I'm old & knackered I'll think about getting one, but for now, I'll enjoy the legitimate captures.
In reply to Post #76
. . . . .in a nutshell Neil
. . . . .in a nutshell Neil
In reply to Post #79
Walker was always looking for new , better tackle ,inventions , edges , he would have used a baitboat .
Walker was always looking for new , better tackle ,inventions , edges , he would have used a baitboat .
Quite a few posts refer to accurate casting.
Do distance sticks count as cheating?
We no longer need to feather the lead down as it approaches the destination. We only have to get the left/right aim good and hit the clip, swing the bait down.
Doing_a_brew mentioned my thoughts on row boats (I posted them on another of these threads). Row boats are a massive advantage. Not keen on the idea of a camera on a bait boat....but imagine someone hanging over the side of a row boat with a viewing scope...seeing the bottom first hand in every detail, just feet below them. That used to be considered VERY carpy ... it's a massive edge over what you can achieve with a little bait boat.
I've done it, placed my baits from the row boat on Goncourt and even pushed the lead into the clay on the side of the feeding spot (using landing net handle).
Then, used the handle to hide the lead core in the silkweed to the side and ensure all that was visible on the feeding area was the hook link/bait.
That's a level of cheating not doable with the bait boat.
Were those fish caught by cheating?
Do they deserve any merit?
Would it have been more merit worthy to cast from the bank and (very likely) leave lead/leader/line visible around the spot?
If so, that would suggest the carp which are 'stupid' enough to fall for the shoddy presentation are more merit worthy than those caught by setting the more elegant trap.
Do distance sticks count as cheating?
We no longer need to feather the lead down as it approaches the destination. We only have to get the left/right aim good and hit the clip, swing the bait down.
Doing_a_brew mentioned my thoughts on row boats (I posted them on another of these threads). Row boats are a massive advantage. Not keen on the idea of a camera on a bait boat....but imagine someone hanging over the side of a row boat with a viewing scope...seeing the bottom first hand in every detail, just feet below them. That used to be considered VERY carpy ... it's a massive edge over what you can achieve with a little bait boat.
I've done it, placed my baits from the row boat on Goncourt and even pushed the lead into the clay on the side of the feeding spot (using landing net handle).
Then, used the handle to hide the lead core in the silkweed to the side and ensure all that was visible on the feeding area was the hook link/bait.
That's a level of cheating not doable with the bait boat.
Were those fish caught by cheating?
Do they deserve any merit?
Would it have been more merit worthy to cast from the bank and (very likely) leave lead/leader/line visible around the spot?
If so, that would suggest the carp which are 'stupid' enough to fall for the shoddy presentation are more merit worthy than those caught by setting the more elegant trap.
In reply to Post #81
Well said and good point.
Like anything, bait boats can be and will be missused in the wrong hands and give them a bad name. They have their place and if the lake rules allow then i dont really see an issue with them. I think previously bait boats where out of reach financially for most and thats why many slagged them off. Now they are alot more affordable those people are converting and getting one themselves (not all).
Ive never fished from a row boat so can only comment on observing, i dont doubt at all its a skill in itself. (You could argue using a bait boat requires some skill to use them effectively).
People talk about loss of merit of a capture if a bait boat is used, well the same could be said for the use of row boats. Especially if you jump in it as soon as your alarm sounds, row out and land the fish in the boat to bring it back to dry land. You could argue that that is cheating? Even wading out into the lake to place rigs, is that cheating? Like someone mentioned, bait boats are not allowed in matches.... and niether are boats (to place rigs) or wading out to drop rigs! But because top anglers do it (outside of the match scene) its seen as super carpy.
If you fish a lake that is bait boat dominated..... I see this as an opportunity to take advantage of, the massive edge would be to fish a spread of boilies, be different. Good anglers wouldnt moan what others are doing, good anglers find solutions to problems and often fish differently to everyone else, using the situation to their advantage.
Well said and good point.
Like anything, bait boats can be and will be missused in the wrong hands and give them a bad name. They have their place and if the lake rules allow then i dont really see an issue with them. I think previously bait boats where out of reach financially for most and thats why many slagged them off. Now they are alot more affordable those people are converting and getting one themselves (not all).
Ive never fished from a row boat so can only comment on observing, i dont doubt at all its a skill in itself. (You could argue using a bait boat requires some skill to use them effectively).
People talk about loss of merit of a capture if a bait boat is used, well the same could be said for the use of row boats. Especially if you jump in it as soon as your alarm sounds, row out and land the fish in the boat to bring it back to dry land. You could argue that that is cheating? Even wading out into the lake to place rigs, is that cheating? Like someone mentioned, bait boats are not allowed in matches.... and niether are boats (to place rigs) or wading out to drop rigs! But because top anglers do it (outside of the match scene) its seen as super carpy.
If you fish a lake that is bait boat dominated..... I see this as an opportunity to take advantage of, the massive edge would be to fish a spread of boilies, be different. Good anglers wouldnt moan what others are doing, good anglers find solutions to problems and often fish differently to everyone else, using the situation to their advantage.
You could also argue that a baiting pole is essentially a bait boat on the end of a stick & I don't have an issue in using those.
What's the difference really? One is manoeuvred by hand & the other is wireless.
It's not that I'm jealous or upset by other people having an "unfair" advantage over me, it's more of a personal choice, & I don't force my views on others (except maybe in discussion & having some fun on here
). There's also the potential disturbance/misuse issue which can be annoying.
I'd be interested to know the actual reasoning behind other people's views on bait boat use.
What's the difference really? One is manoeuvred by hand & the other is wireless.
It's not that I'm jealous or upset by other people having an "unfair" advantage over me, it's more of a personal choice, & I don't force my views on others (except maybe in discussion & having some fun on here
). There's also the potential disturbance/misuse issue which can be annoying.I'd be interested to know the actual reasoning behind other people's views on bait boat use.
I can obviously only speak for myself, but it's certainly not that I'm jealous and can't afford a bait boat. It's not that I see them as an unfair advantage that I wish I had and I don't find their misuse irritating.
I don't see using a remote controlled boat as fishing. I would rather give up fishing than use a machine to do it for me. I just don't get it. I could never be happy with a fish that was caught using a remote controlled machine. That machine has done the skilful bit for me. I've spent nearly 40 years learning to do it, why would I want a machine to do it for me?
I love using just a rod and line and honing the skill it takes to put the rig attached to that line where I want it to be. If the fish are beyond where I can put that rig then good for them. They won't be there forever and when they're not, I'll find them. That's fishing to me.
I don't want to save time, I'm happy just being there. I don't care if other people are catching more than me, I'll catch them eventually, on my terms.
Do those who regularly use a bait boat to catch their fish really and truly think that it is fishing? The same fishing that they learnt and fell in love with when they were a kid?
I don't see using a remote controlled boat as fishing. I would rather give up fishing than use a machine to do it for me. I just don't get it. I could never be happy with a fish that was caught using a remote controlled machine. That machine has done the skilful bit for me. I've spent nearly 40 years learning to do it, why would I want a machine to do it for me?
I love using just a rod and line and honing the skill it takes to put the rig attached to that line where I want it to be. If the fish are beyond where I can put that rig then good for them. They won't be there forever and when they're not, I'll find them. That's fishing to me.
I don't want to save time, I'm happy just being there. I don't care if other people are catching more than me, I'll catch them eventually, on my terms.
Do those who regularly use a bait boat to catch their fish really and truly think that it is fishing? The same fishing that they learnt and fell in love with when they were a kid?
I absolutely think BB are the accepted norm.......but the main thing for me is I simply don't give a toss what others are doing or not doing, what fish they catch etc I couldn't care less!
It makes me laugh when people say fishing isn't what it used to be etc......why? If you do your own thing and not worry about anyone else it's exactly the same IMO. 2025 fishing For me is the same as when I started in the mid 80s apart from far better tackle to choose from to make fishing far more comfortable.
It makes me laugh when people say fishing isn't what it used to be etc......why? If you do your own thing and not worry about anyone else it's exactly the same IMO. 2025 fishing For me is the same as when I started in the mid 80s apart from far better tackle to choose from to make fishing far more comfortable.
Well this weekend the bait boat won the comp for me between finding spots and casting and using my RT7
All weekend left rod solid bags casting between 12 and 16 wraps on spots i found with lead
Middle rod at night with bait boat found a little drop every night 1kg hemp/corn with spinner rig. During the day put bait on spot but let it rest and changed to zig cast to 11 wraps. Right hand rod zig all weekend playing between 8ft and 16ft of water on both zigs. Last night went back with spinner on spot as rain coming in and drop in pressure to catch a beautiful 36.10lbs dark mirror this morning.
Now i could easily cast and found the spot above.Knew what bait to use what to look for in water and when to fish the spot. Fished 4 x different methods over the weekend trying everything should I be disappointed I caught it from the boat rig? I think not 🤔
All weekend left rod solid bags casting between 12 and 16 wraps on spots i found with lead
Middle rod at night with bait boat found a little drop every night 1kg hemp/corn with spinner rig. During the day put bait on spot but let it rest and changed to zig cast to 11 wraps. Right hand rod zig all weekend playing between 8ft and 16ft of water on both zigs. Last night went back with spinner on spot as rain coming in and drop in pressure to catch a beautiful 36.10lbs dark mirror this morning.
Now i could easily cast and found the spot above.Knew what bait to use what to look for in water and when to fish the spot. Fished 4 x different methods over the weekend trying everything should I be disappointed I caught it from the boat rig? I think not 🤔
In reply to Post #84
Well said..
It's cheating ,it's cheating because the person using the tech has been brainwashed ,like sheep.that its OK to use a BB in place of time honed, acquired skill..
I've banned them on places I look after,I don't regard catch at all cost mindsets to be proper fishermen anyway ,they most definitely in the main are not anglers ..
It's not in the spirit of angling ,...all this about' each to their own' doesn't wash or cut it ..all captures using a bait boat ,are null and void ...null and void ,cheating that's it..
For those that say it's jealousy, it's not ...I can get the best if I want ..why on earth would someone want to carry unessessary kit around on top.of all the other stuff,..
It's about angling morals within the hobby/pastime ..an unwritten etiquette..
Use a BB,boat ,your cheating !....
Well said..
It's cheating ,it's cheating because the person using the tech has been brainwashed ,like sheep.that its OK to use a BB in place of time honed, acquired skill..
I've banned them on places I look after,I don't regard catch at all cost mindsets to be proper fishermen anyway ,they most definitely in the main are not anglers ..
It's not in the spirit of angling ,...all this about' each to their own' doesn't wash or cut it ..all captures using a bait boat ,are null and void ...null and void ,cheating that's it..
For those that say it's jealousy, it's not ...I can get the best if I want ..why on earth would someone want to carry unessessary kit around on top.of all the other stuff,..
It's about angling morals within the hobby/pastime ..an unwritten etiquette..
Use a BB,boat ,your cheating !....
In reply to Post #87
So Adam, just for clarity, are you for or against BB?
So Adam, just for clarity, are you for or against BB?
In reply to Post #87
Catch at all costs is a big grey area as well as cheating when it comes to fishing in general. Dave Lane was/is renowned for breaking rules, fishing out of bounds etc... which is a catch at all costs mindset in my eyes. I think you would very much class him as a proper fisherman and angler.
Basically saying every capture of the black mirror was not proper angling because no one should have been fishing it. Catch at all costs mentality!
In very simple terms it's the people who need to have a “do not drink” label on bleach to stay away from bait boats
Catch at all costs is a big grey area as well as cheating when it comes to fishing in general. Dave Lane was/is renowned for breaking rules, fishing out of bounds etc... which is a catch at all costs mindset in my eyes. I think you would very much class him as a proper fisherman and angler.
Basically saying every capture of the black mirror was not proper angling because no one should have been fishing it. Catch at all costs mentality!
In very simple terms it's the people who need to have a “do not drink” label on bleach to stay away from bait boats
In reply to Post #88
Lol,mate that's funny..he,he..
The tech involved is phenomenal, amazing but that's as far as I'll go ,not many on here know this but my family ,not me ,sold and marketed the big Eurocat bait boats I got offered one for free
I turned it down ,so I did..
Lol,mate that's funny..he,he..
The tech involved is phenomenal, amazing but that's as far as I'll go ,not many on here know this but my family ,not me ,sold and marketed the big Eurocat bait boats I got offered one for free
I turned it down ,so I did..