In reply to Post #17
Frutarom flavour house compound a really nice tutti
Frutarom flavour house compound a really nice tutti
In reply to Post #17
Cambells are no longer in business, but the flavours are still available through the flavour house that purchased all the recipes from his children (The name escapes me but Google will know). 5kg (approx 5L) minimum orders now and the prices nigh on doubled over night.
Personally when Bob passed away, to me so did Cambell's. The bait industry is rife with folks who have their products made for them by somebody else behind the scenes. Something I personally always steer well clear of. The fact that in most cases that information is always kept a secret should speak volumes in itself. The flavours were Bobs pride and joy, his life's work. Trusting someone else to follow the same quality control is trust I am not willing to make.
The more fingers in the pie, the lower the quality is often the way it goes IMO.
Cambells are no longer in business, but the flavours are still available through the flavour house that purchased all the recipes from his children (The name escapes me but Google will know). 5kg (approx 5L) minimum orders now and the prices nigh on doubled over night.
Personally when Bob passed away, to me so did Cambell's. The bait industry is rife with folks who have their products made for them by somebody else behind the scenes. Something I personally always steer well clear of. The fact that in most cases that information is always kept a secret should speak volumes in itself. The flavours were Bobs pride and joy, his life's work. Trusting someone else to follow the same quality control is trust I am not willing to make.
The more fingers in the pie, the lower the quality is often the way it goes IMO.
Another point worth making.....
All this clamor for ancient flavors is a massive blind. When these flavors were all the rage and successful.... Flavors were a very new thing in carp bait. ANYTHING would have worked, any old investigation trigger because it was all brand new to the fish 🤣
People wanting 30 year old flavors and paying a fortune for them, are literally crazy. 30 years ago they were good yes. Because it was all new... Are they any good now? Of course not, there are many things that are far superior nowadays, the fish have been fished for, for 30+ years now with basic investigative triggers like Tutti Fruiti.
Anyone paying big money for a 30 year old oxidised RH flavor wants their head tested and they clearly understand zero about carp bait. Rod himself would be pissing his pants with laughter.
All this clamor for ancient flavors is a massive blind. When these flavors were all the rage and successful.... Flavors were a very new thing in carp bait. ANYTHING would have worked, any old investigation trigger because it was all brand new to the fish 🤣
People wanting 30 year old flavors and paying a fortune for them, are literally crazy. 30 years ago they were good yes. Because it was all new... Are they any good now? Of course not, there are many things that are far superior nowadays, the fish have been fished for, for 30+ years now with basic investigative triggers like Tutti Fruiti.
Anyone paying big money for a 30 year old oxidised RH flavor wants their head tested and they clearly understand zero about carp bait. Rod himself would be pissing his pants with laughter.
In reply to Post #20
Agree about the old flavours. The old ones I had kept through my teens bait making are in pretty poor shape.
The company that took Campbell's over is called plantex, and nothing is the same from what I have seen.
There are a few exceptions going back to old flavours. There were two that were leagues above anything I have seen in modern times, although one of the modern versions now available have shown to be very effective.
The animal regs that took out some of the ingredients in flavours certainly ruined one or two flavours.
But let's be honest here, flavours aren't the be all and end all of what makes a carp suck something up!
Agree about the old flavours. The old ones I had kept through my teens bait making are in pretty poor shape.
The company that took Campbell's over is called plantex, and nothing is the same from what I have seen.
There are a few exceptions going back to old flavours. There were two that were leagues above anything I have seen in modern times, although one of the modern versions now available have shown to be very effective.
The animal regs that took out some of the ingredients in flavours certainly ruined one or two flavours.
But let's be honest here, flavours aren't the be all and end all of what makes a carp suck something up!
In reply to Post #21
Flavors were a very new thing in carp bait. ANYTHING would have worked
I think that is unfortunately the truth
Flavors were a very new thing in carp bait. ANYTHING would have worked
I think that is unfortunately the truth
I purposely try to use a bait with the least amount of chemical flavour possible. As TC says, we've gone a long way past needing them now.
In reply to Post #18
Frutarom got bought out by IFF, and that arm of the business is now called Tastepoint.
Frutarom got bought out by IFF, and that arm of the business is now called Tastepoint.
In reply to Post #24
i didnt know they'd been bought out, the plant in northants, the last time i drove past still has the fruitarom sign above its doors
i didnt know they'd been bought out, the plant in northants, the last time i drove past still has the fruitarom sign above its doors
Carp anglers can be funny sometimes. Often looking back through rose tinted spectacles. Over flavored semo balls made with very harsh chemical flavors were very successful for a period of time in the late 80's\early 90's.
But they became redundant, when we as carp anglers discovered that food baits applied properly, were a vastly superior bait for catching carp. This is the bit that anglers seem to forget when looking back through rose tinted spectacles. They just remember back to when tutti fruiti or nouvelle fizz caught more than anything else. But they don't remember WHY we stopped using them.
I've made my living by understanding the very simple fact, that taste is FAR FAR more important than smell, for a creature that lives under water. Smell does not work under water. Smell works in the tackle shop.
Take any oxidised 30 year old flavor and TASTE IT. It will taste like rank battery acid.
Anyone pushing this type of attraction is absolutely clueless. That is not progressing, that is regressing in a massive way. The clamor to make quick cash is all that matters nowadays for so many starting up. I get messaged all of the time by younger carpers who are desperate to make their living in carp fishing\bait.
I always give them the same advice. Think for yourself, be original and actually go fishing. Don't listen to all the ******** you are fed about carp bait previously in mags and now on YouTube etc... Because 99% of it is absolute ******** in reality. Those people just shouted louder than anyone else. Confirmation bias is a massive thing in the evolution of carp bait. Everyone copying some old formula. We understand so much more nowadays than they did 30 years ago... But we still look back through rose tinted specs thinking that what worked so well back then, will work now. It's taken as gospel that the way to do things regarding carp bait... Is the way we were shown 30 years ago. Not much has changed. Because everyone just copies everyone else.... Some famous angler caught some fish from Yateley 25 years ago on a red fish meal.... For 25 years every new bait company starts up with a red fish meal. He would have caught them on tigers or numerous other things, he was a good angler. But for 25 years, red fish meal, red fish meal.... Think about that in depth for a minute.
It's all a load of rubbish in reality. Once you can see that for yourself, the sky is the limit. Don't follow, you will only get the same results as everyone else. That applies to fishing, and it also applies even more so to carp bait.
But they became redundant, when we as carp anglers discovered that food baits applied properly, were a vastly superior bait for catching carp. This is the bit that anglers seem to forget when looking back through rose tinted spectacles. They just remember back to when tutti fruiti or nouvelle fizz caught more than anything else. But they don't remember WHY we stopped using them.
I've made my living by understanding the very simple fact, that taste is FAR FAR more important than smell, for a creature that lives under water. Smell does not work under water. Smell works in the tackle shop.
Take any oxidised 30 year old flavor and TASTE IT. It will taste like rank battery acid.
Anyone pushing this type of attraction is absolutely clueless. That is not progressing, that is regressing in a massive way. The clamor to make quick cash is all that matters nowadays for so many starting up. I get messaged all of the time by younger carpers who are desperate to make their living in carp fishing\bait.
I always give them the same advice. Think for yourself, be original and actually go fishing. Don't listen to all the ******** you are fed about carp bait previously in mags and now on YouTube etc... Because 99% of it is absolute ******** in reality. Those people just shouted louder than anyone else. Confirmation bias is a massive thing in the evolution of carp bait. Everyone copying some old formula. We understand so much more nowadays than they did 30 years ago... But we still look back through rose tinted specs thinking that what worked so well back then, will work now. It's taken as gospel that the way to do things regarding carp bait... Is the way we were shown 30 years ago. Not much has changed. Because everyone just copies everyone else.... Some famous angler caught some fish from Yateley 25 years ago on a red fish meal.... For 25 years every new bait company starts up with a red fish meal. He would have caught them on tigers or numerous other things, he was a good angler. But for 25 years, red fish meal, red fish meal.... Think about that in depth for a minute.
It's all a load of rubbish in reality. Once you can see that for yourself, the sky is the limit. Don't follow, you will only get the same results as everyone else. That applies to fishing, and it also applies even more so to carp bait.
In reply to Post #26
TCarper, question for you:
When the Tutti's were being fished on Harefield originally, how rich a water was Harefield in terms of natural food?
Wasn't it still being dug?
I do remember it was mentioned in Hutchy's The Carp Strikes Back though
I'm sure after the Tutti-Frutti revolution on there Premier Fishmeals came on to rule the roost, in a number of waters.
I never did that well on the original Tutti-Frutti, I had better results on Salmon Supreme and Honey Yucatan shelfies, possibly because I was only baiting up with a few baits at a time.
TCarper, question for you:
When the Tutti's were being fished on Harefield originally, how rich a water was Harefield in terms of natural food?
Wasn't it still being dug?
I do remember it was mentioned in Hutchy's The Carp Strikes Back though
I'm sure after the Tutti-Frutti revolution on there Premier Fishmeals came on to rule the roost, in a number of waters.
I never did that well on the original Tutti-Frutti, I had better results on Salmon Supreme and Honey Yucatan shelfies, possibly because I was only baiting up with a few baits at a time.
In reply to Post #27
the mainline link
That is so much like honey yukatan of old
As soon as I opened it that came to my mind I didn't even need to go that smells like whatsit... as you do.
the mainline link
That is so much like honey yukatan of old
As soon as I opened it that came to my mind I didn't even need to go that smells like whatsit... as you do.
In reply to Post #27
Any newly dug pit is super rich. New ground is super fertile in terms of a lake. During a lakes first ten years after being dug is when a lake is at its richest in terms of nutrients. If you have an existing pit that is being dug/added too... The fish will have a weight explosion.
The biggest carp I've ever seen lived in a poaching pit. The pit had been recently partly re dug and added too, but was strictly no fishing at the time. That particular carp had only been caught once ever at just over 30lb. When I saw it with another fish I had just caught at over 40lb from the boat, it was closer to 70lb. The carp in the lake absolutely thrived on the lack of pressure and richness of the newly dug pit. They grew so much bigger on that neglect and the nutrients from the new ground. I caught a 12lb plus male tench from there too. An absolutely monstrous male tinca. We were under no illusions that there were likely a few British records in that pit of various species at the time. Otters got to them before the pits secrets were ever truly revealed.
There is a big difference between a hook bait and a food bait. Investigation triggers may work extremely well in a hook bait... But in a bait consumed en masse like a freezer bait the same investigation triggers become a repellent once they eat to many. Carp anglers and bait manufacturers don't seem to understand this simple fact most of the time.
Investigation triggers are not needed in food baits at all. They are actually a hinderence. The food is attraction enough. It's no good if the carp are attracted to a bait... But once they eat a load they end up with a bellyache. The flavors are only there for the anglers benefit in food baits. That's how much we have been ‘programmed' to think a certain way by previous carp fishing media that was controlled totally by bait companies money. It's still going on today, but via the internet now and free media. Back in the day before mags anglers HAD to think for themselves. Today they are preprogrammed from the very start into a certain way of thinking, by people who need to sell a ton of product. That has completely stifled innovation and free thinking. That has actually stopped our progression regarding carp bait IMO.
When the people making the media are actually clueless about carp bait, what chance do the people who take what they say as gospel have? Block it all out and think for yourself is the best advice you could ever be given by anyone.
Any newly dug pit is super rich. New ground is super fertile in terms of a lake. During a lakes first ten years after being dug is when a lake is at its richest in terms of nutrients. If you have an existing pit that is being dug/added too... The fish will have a weight explosion.
The biggest carp I've ever seen lived in a poaching pit. The pit had been recently partly re dug and added too, but was strictly no fishing at the time. That particular carp had only been caught once ever at just over 30lb. When I saw it with another fish I had just caught at over 40lb from the boat, it was closer to 70lb. The carp in the lake absolutely thrived on the lack of pressure and richness of the newly dug pit. They grew so much bigger on that neglect and the nutrients from the new ground. I caught a 12lb plus male tench from there too. An absolutely monstrous male tinca. We were under no illusions that there were likely a few British records in that pit of various species at the time. Otters got to them before the pits secrets were ever truly revealed.
There is a big difference between a hook bait and a food bait. Investigation triggers may work extremely well in a hook bait... But in a bait consumed en masse like a freezer bait the same investigation triggers become a repellent once they eat to many. Carp anglers and bait manufacturers don't seem to understand this simple fact most of the time.
Investigation triggers are not needed in food baits at all. They are actually a hinderence. The food is attraction enough. It's no good if the carp are attracted to a bait... But once they eat a load they end up with a bellyache. The flavors are only there for the anglers benefit in food baits. That's how much we have been ‘programmed' to think a certain way by previous carp fishing media that was controlled totally by bait companies money. It's still going on today, but via the internet now and free media. Back in the day before mags anglers HAD to think for themselves. Today they are preprogrammed from the very start into a certain way of thinking, by people who need to sell a ton of product. That has completely stifled innovation and free thinking. That has actually stopped our progression regarding carp bait IMO.
When the people making the media are actually clueless about carp bait, what chance do the people who take what they say as gospel have? Block it all out and think for yourself is the best advice you could ever be given by anyone.
In reply to Post #26
Cracking post. So true
I would also bet my bottom dollar it's was the sweet element that attracted them to the Tutti more than the flavour and the colour. When I used the freezer version I purposely put my hookbaits on a radiator in plastic bags, nice and sticky with the sweet stuff drawn to the outside
Cracking post. So true
I would also bet my bottom dollar it's was the sweet element that attracted them to the Tutti more than the flavour and the colour. When I used the freezer version I purposely put my hookbaits on a radiator in plastic bags, nice and sticky with the sweet stuff drawn to the outside
In reply to Post #29
Are you saying food baits are over engineered and cheaper basic bollies would catch as much as long as the hookbait has the right trigger?
Are you saying food baits are over engineered and cheaper basic bollies would catch as much as long as the hookbait has the right trigger?
In reply to Post #31
Quite possibly.
You could make a bait from maize meal, calcium caseinate, semolina, soya flour, wheat gluten, some liver powder, and a dose of liver flavour. There you go, you probably have Protavit Liver there!
It was one of the most basic simple baits, yet very effective.
Your hookbait can be your food bait, or maybe a pop-up over the top if fishing a bit silty.
Stick liquid liver hydrolysate as your liquid and that can be a very could fish Catcher.
Try liquidised liver, liquidised squid, and semolina, another very effective bait.
Quite possibly.
You could make a bait from maize meal, calcium caseinate, semolina, soya flour, wheat gluten, some liver powder, and a dose of liver flavour. There you go, you probably have Protavit Liver there!
It was one of the most basic simple baits, yet very effective.
Your hookbait can be your food bait, or maybe a pop-up over the top if fishing a bit silty.
Stick liquid liver hydrolysate as your liquid and that can be a very could fish Catcher.
Try liquidised liver, liquidised squid, and semolina, another very effective bait.