Interesting to see that a fishery has declared on social media a decision to ban all fish care treatments for fear they may actually be doing more harm than good.
Ive always considered these treatments to be a load of old nonsense anyway and just a money maker, though i will apply if fishery rules dictate so.
Angling times have done an article on the same subject this month.
LINKY POO™ https://www.anglingtimes.co.uk/news/stories/are-anglers-accidentally-harming-carp/?fbclid=IwY2xjawS7TAdleHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETFHcVhUV0xKRWVzNEhQVURsc3J0YwZhcHBfaWQQMjIyMDM5MTc4ODIwMDg5MgABHukmWscUQo4lpa_tLbaWtClysapUUcyMMXAm6-meryNsE9LfcFM-BOTufV1Q_aem_cWBJLy1As_l6bfdoY77N3g
Ive always considered these treatments to be a load of old nonsense anyway and just a money maker, though i will apply if fishery rules dictate so.
Angling times have done an article on the same subject this month.
LINKY POO™ https://www.anglingtimes.co.uk/news/stories/are-anglers-accidentally-harming-carp/?fbclid=IwY2xjawS7TAdleHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETFHcVhUV0xKRWVzNEhQVURsc3J0YwZhcHBfaWQQMjIyMDM5MTc4ODIwMDg5MgABHukmWscUQo4lpa_tLbaWtClysapUUcyMMXAm6-meryNsE9LfcFM-BOTufV1Q_aem_cWBJLy1As_l6bfdoY77N3g
In reply to Post #1
In case you didn't see
LINKY POO™ https://www.carpforum.co.uk/Shared/Messages.asp?TopicID=450745
In case you didn't see
LINKY POO™ https://www.carpforum.co.uk/Shared/Messages.asp?TopicID=450745
In reply to Post #1
A very balanced post from that fishery 😎
A very balanced post from that fishery 😎
In reply to Post #2
thanks ... i hadn't seen that
thanks ... i hadn't seen that
Some bollox getting talked about carp care treatments.
This has made several clubs press the panic button and ban the use of ALL carp care products. Madness.
The tests said some products were no good, and possibly harmful, but no mention of which are the bad ones.
And also consider there are others that must be good too.
The koi hobby industry has been using posts of products for years with no issues!
And the crucial difference is the koi are not released back into the wild but are in tanks and ponds were the treatment and repair can easily be monitored.
So one week the bailiffs are checking everyone has got their carp care products.
The next week anglers are being strip searched to make sure thay haven't got any carp care products 😂
Madness, you couldnt make it up 🙄
This has made several clubs press the panic button and ban the use of ALL carp care products. Madness.
The tests said some products were no good, and possibly harmful, but no mention of which are the bad ones.
And also consider there are others that must be good too.
The koi hobby industry has been using posts of products for years with no issues!
And the crucial difference is the koi are not released back into the wild but are in tanks and ponds were the treatment and repair can easily be monitored.
So one week the bailiffs are checking everyone has got their carp care products.
The next week anglers are being strip searched to make sure thay haven't got any carp care products 😂
Madness, you couldnt make it up 🙄
In reply to Post #5
I still use carp care products when required.
I still use carp care products when required.
I worked for years in the aquatic industry and have tried plenty of these topical treatments, none seemed particularly affective. Evidence even suggested that the propolis type treatments even sealed bacteria in, others wash straight off. The only thing that worked was a jab of antibiotics.
I thought the report was really, really badly put together, especially considering who it was who put it together.
If you're going to put this sort of thing out into the public domain you really need to have the balls to put names to results, not leave people guessing. Very poor and hardly surprising that some places have now banned its use.
Very poor.
If you're going to put this sort of thing out into the public domain you really need to have the balls to put names to results, not leave people guessing. Very poor and hardly surprising that some places have now banned its use.
Very poor.
In reply to Post #8
While I agree, if they'd have put names out there, they run the risk of being acused of bias or being sued. They could have approached the tested products company (maybe they did) but they'd probably have refused participation (am I being cynical). Maybe the point was to make companies prove their products work via independent testing. By having no names they've implied it could be any company, I wonder if letters have already been sent from said companies?
A wild thought, if the testing/production is cost prohibitive surely this is one area where, if companies who sell Carp care products truly cared for their quarry they'd 'band' together and produce a standardised product at a standardised price that everyone could have confidence in 🤔
As Capt Swearword said, proven antibiotics are widely used on expensive koi when required, but they'll never be available to Joe Bloggs.
While I agree, if they'd have put names out there, they run the risk of being acused of bias or being sued. They could have approached the tested products company (maybe they did) but they'd probably have refused participation (am I being cynical). Maybe the point was to make companies prove their products work via independent testing. By having no names they've implied it could be any company, I wonder if letters have already been sent from said companies?
A wild thought, if the testing/production is cost prohibitive surely this is one area where, if companies who sell Carp care products truly cared for their quarry they'd 'band' together and produce a standardised product at a standardised price that everyone could have confidence in 🤔
As Capt Swearword said, proven antibiotics are widely used on expensive koi when required, but they'll never be available to Joe Bloggs.
In reply to Post #9
Why would they be sued if what they're saying is true? I agree with Andy.
Why would they be sued if what they're saying is true? I agree with Andy.
In reply to Post #10
Since when has truth stopped people from being tied down in a legal quagmire by solicitors 🤔
As it stands, I'd imagine the companies could band together if they wanted to, and bring a case for loss of earnings, if sales fall off a cliff. They could also claim brand damage.
Since when has truth stopped people from being tied down in a legal quagmire by solicitors 🤔
As it stands, I'd imagine the companies could band together if they wanted to, and bring a case for loss of earnings, if sales fall off a cliff. They could also claim brand damage.
None of the carp care products previous to this study have been tested to see if they do what they claim. None.
No names required as anyone you pick has just made up that they are carp care. That is really poor, IMO.
The only way companies could sue would be if they had actually tested the products and the manufacturers knew the products worked. None of them have so none of them will.
It would only be worth naming one if the study found that it actually did what it claimed.
As it stood before the study; no carp care products have been tested to see if they do care for carp. Those that were tested didn't do what they claimed.
I thought anyone reading that study would conclude that none of them are worth using.
No names required as anyone you pick has just made up that they are carp care. That is really poor, IMO.
The only way companies could sue would be if they had actually tested the products and the manufacturers knew the products worked. None of them have so none of them will.
It would only be worth naming one if the study found that it actually did what it claimed.
As it stood before the study; no carp care products have been tested to see if they do care for carp. Those that were tested didn't do what they claimed.
I thought anyone reading that study would conclude that none of them are worth using.
In reply to Post #12
Nt labs seem to know what they are doing.
I have seen hiw their products (and similar from other brands) can help heal and damage.
From nt labs ulcer swab.
When fish have open wounds and ulcers. These can easily become infected with bacteria or fungus.
Ulcer Swab cleans and disinfects wounds and sores. The cleaned wound can then be sealed with Propolis Wound Seal to create a long-lasting waterproof barrier.
Also kryston Klinik was extensively researched by Dave Chilton and he had pharmaceutical companies put it together.
The most advanced carp care recovery treatment ever developed.
One shot application for mouth, fins and body.
Antiseptic
Antibacterial
Anti fungal
Antiviral
Paraciticide agents
Non-Toxic
Made in U.K.
Manufactured under licence to strict pharmaceutical standards exclusively for Kryston.
Nt labs seem to know what they are doing.
I have seen hiw their products (and similar from other brands) can help heal and damage.
From nt labs ulcer swab.
When fish have open wounds and ulcers. These can easily become infected with bacteria or fungus.
Ulcer Swab cleans and disinfects wounds and sores. The cleaned wound can then be sealed with Propolis Wound Seal to create a long-lasting waterproof barrier.
Also kryston Klinik was extensively researched by Dave Chilton and he had pharmaceutical companies put it together.
The most advanced carp care recovery treatment ever developed.
One shot application for mouth, fins and body.
Antiseptic
Antibacterial
Anti fungal
Antiviral
Paraciticide agents
Non-Toxic
Made in U.K.
Manufactured under licence to strict pharmaceutical standards exclusively for Kryston.
In reply to Post #13
I think the word cleaned is doing the heavy lifting here. If it's not cleaned properly and then sealed over it can only be worse than just hoping nature can take care of its own.
I think the word cleaned is doing the heavy lifting here. If it's not cleaned properly and then sealed over it can only be worse than just hoping nature can take care of its own.
In reply to Post #14
All lake and river water is full of nasty bacteria and viruses.
The fishes immune system, general health and water quality needs to all needs to be fairly good to give the fish a good chance of natural repair.
Anything we can do to increase the repair odds must be a good thing.
All lake and river water is full of nasty bacteria and viruses.
The fishes immune system, general health and water quality needs to all needs to be fairly good to give the fish a good chance of natural repair.
Anything we can do to increase the repair odds must be a good thing.
In reply to Post #15
The thing is, in the wild or at a fishery, there is no control group to help you see if you are getting the effect you think they are.
With any of the examples you are using, you have no way of knowing if the fishes immune system just did it on its own.
The products tested so far suggest that they do nothing and it is just the fishes immune system that does it.
ATB
Ash
The thing is, in the wild or at a fishery, there is no control group to help you see if you are getting the effect you think they are.
With any of the examples you are using, you have no way of knowing if the fishes immune system just did it on its own.
The products tested so far suggest that they do nothing and it is just the fishes immune system that does it.
ATB
Ash
In reply to Post #16
I believe the tests said some of the products, but not all.
Plenty of proof from the koi hobbyists that the products they are using do have benefits, and they can easily monitor.
There are still bacteria and bugs in their water.
I have seen posts by well know and respected fishery managers that have used products and they have had excellent results.
I believe the tests said some of the products, but not all.
Plenty of proof from the koi hobbyists that the products they are using do have benefits, and they can easily monitor.
There are still bacteria and bugs in their water.
I have seen posts by well know and respected fishery managers that have used products and they have had excellent results.
In reply to Post #13
I used to use the NT Labs Ulcer Swab and then their sealer (the name escapes me) on a syndicate and I would often see fish a few days after capture with the sealer (it was bright white) clearly visible. That gave me confidence that I was do everything possible to help wounds heal.
The guy who ran the syndicate was so impressed that he made it a rule that the two NT Labs products were carried and used by all members.
Cleaning a wound and then simply slipping a fish back has always seemed pointless to me and I've never been convinced by the addition of propolis with first cleaning a wound.
I used to use the NT Labs Ulcer Swab and then their sealer (the name escapes me) on a syndicate and I would often see fish a few days after capture with the sealer (it was bright white) clearly visible. That gave me confidence that I was do everything possible to help wounds heal.
The guy who ran the syndicate was so impressed that he made it a rule that the two NT Labs products were carried and used by all members.
Cleaning a wound and then simply slipping a fish back has always seemed pointless to me and I've never been convinced by the addition of propolis with first cleaning a wound.
Not very related with the thread itself, but:
A couple of days ago, i recaptured a mirror carp, 4th time i had this fish on my mat.
First time, It was immaculated, but second time she had the upper part of his tail broken, i supose due a very bad carp caring since sometimes that lake it's fished by noddys using treble hooks, not landing nets or mats.
I applied antiseptic on the wound that time and the next one, but didn't expect to do anything at all. Well, one year later (two days ago) i found out half of the missing part did regenerate, never thought they would be able to heal such a wound.
I don't think it's due of the antiseptic at all, as some of you say, carp are a very hard and strong animals and they are more than able to overcome things like this, pikes attacks and so.
Have pics of the before and after but don't really know how to post em.
A couple of days ago, i recaptured a mirror carp, 4th time i had this fish on my mat.
First time, It was immaculated, but second time she had the upper part of his tail broken, i supose due a very bad carp caring since sometimes that lake it's fished by noddys using treble hooks, not landing nets or mats.
I applied antiseptic on the wound that time and the next one, but didn't expect to do anything at all. Well, one year later (two days ago) i found out half of the missing part did regenerate, never thought they would be able to heal such a wound.
I don't think it's due of the antiseptic at all, as some of you say, carp are a very hard and strong animals and they are more than able to overcome things like this, pikes attacks and so.
Have pics of the before and after but don't really know how to post em.
I’m pretty sure it was bonjella that I used a few years ago on the advise of the fishery manager at the time.
Where and who started all this carp care treatment?
Fisheries or tackle/bait company’s
Where and who started all this carp care treatment?
Fisheries or tackle/bait company’s
In reply to Post #19
Similar experience..
I fished and fished a lot of places that the stock have been badly damaged by otter predation,I mean shockingly so...
Some of these places,not fenced and or private ..a lot of fish I've recaught,and you can clearly see where the regeneration has happened,....no carp care products used..
Takes a bout a year to partially regenerate a tail,and you'll be able to feel and see the regeneration. However,some have clearly been attacked more than once.
Nature is wonderful ..as far as healing is concerned.
Similar experience..
I fished and fished a lot of places that the stock have been badly damaged by otter predation,I mean shockingly so...
Some of these places,not fenced and or private ..a lot of fish I've recaught,and you can clearly see where the regeneration has happened,....no carp care products used..
Takes a bout a year to partially regenerate a tail,and you'll be able to feel and see the regeneration. However,some have clearly been attacked more than once.
Nature is wonderful ..as far as healing is concerned.
In reply to Post #19
This one, was the first time:
Broken/cut upper tail:
After a year:
This one, was the first time:
Broken/cut upper tail:
After a year:
In reply to Post #22
Been bitten at least twice ,minimum, showed signs of regeneration, on 2nd capture,after that pic ,bitten yet again.
See it all the time ,sadly ..
Been bitten at least twice ,minimum, showed signs of regeneration, on 2nd capture,after that pic ,bitten yet again.
See it all the time ,sadly ..
In reply to Post #23
No pike on that lake, but very bad fish caring tho... So i assume a very bad manipulation
No pike on that lake, but very bad fish caring tho... So i assume a very bad manipulation
In reply to Post #24
Can't comment on fish care ,or lack of mate ,but that's 100% lutra lutra predation ..damage.
What a shame .
Can't comment on fish care ,or lack of mate ,but that's 100% lutra lutra predation ..damage.
What a shame .
In reply to Post #25
Isn't like a too perfect and straight cut to be an otter wound?
It's posible anyways, however this shows their capacity to heal up and overcome serious injuries like this one
Isn't like a too perfect and straight cut to be an otter wound?
It's posible anyways, however this shows their capacity to heal up and overcome serious injuries like this one
In reply to Post #26
It deffo shows how resilient those carp are..
( I've studied and collated otter predation media for over 30 yrs now,one of the original PAG comtributors)
That fish has been predated upon ,that damage is not angler damage,mink damage or pike damage ,I've seen it time and time again..the bite signature is 100% otter ,sorry to say ..
It deffo shows how resilient those carp are..
( I've studied and collated otter predation media for over 30 yrs now,one of the original PAG comtributors)
That fish has been predated upon ,that damage is not angler damage,mink damage or pike damage ,I've seen it time and time again..the bite signature is 100% otter ,sorry to say ..
Very interesting read... always have and always will use the kryston products on my fish. Regardless if it makes a difference or not. Can see the argument for propolis sealing in infected areas and messing with natural healing of the fish maybe.
And unfortunatly to the poster of the pics below.. 100% otter as Wandle has said. Thats some nice regeneration though! My old park lake fish havnt been able to do that😭
And unfortunatly to the poster of the pics below.. 100% otter as Wandle has said. Thats some nice regeneration though! My old park lake fish havnt been able to do that😭
In reply to Post #27
Nothing to be sorry about, very grateful about the info indeed.
It was just a guess by myself because it's usual to see broken mouths, fins, missings scales and so.
Nothing to be sorry about, very grateful about the info indeed.
It was just a guess by myself because it's usual to see broken mouths, fins, missings scales and so.
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