Since covid I think most of us think fishing has got harder, and I have bemoaned this on several threads especially this last year. The thing I seem to have come to realise is that the carp only / dominant waters are becoming more moody than other places.
I've fished over 50 years and am a bit of a disciple of the baiting pyramid and think one of the issues is the lack of ‘nuisance' fish nowadays. The invite everything to the party and the carp will drop their guard is becoming less and less. I have gone from hating the slimy buggers to trying to seek out mixed fisheries and getting the bream into a frenzy to do the hard work for you?
Anyone noticed that the more carp only waters the harder they become?
I've fished over 50 years and am a bit of a disciple of the baiting pyramid and think one of the issues is the lack of ‘nuisance' fish nowadays. The invite everything to the party and the carp will drop their guard is becoming less and less. I have gone from hating the slimy buggers to trying to seek out mixed fisheries and getting the bream into a frenzy to do the hard work for you?
Anyone noticed that the more carp only waters the harder they become?
Couldn't give a *****, I loathe bream until they reach double figures, then I loathe them less.
In reply to Post #1
Mixed fisheries are getting less and less. No money in Silvers it seems. A lot of carp ponds are becoming very sterile. The odd nuisance fish is all part of it for me. But I'm in the minority it seems..who don't like to sit lakeside on a summer evening watching the water dapple with Roach topping, Bream and Tench rolling. And hopefully the Odd Carp sloshing out.
I have a lot of time for Mr Fairbrass for gives back to this pastime we love. And I am in no way knocking him for it. But I no he has this idea in his head that removing nuisance fish as he calls them from his Fisheries. That this will some how improve them. Increase growth improve water quality and the like. Maybe it will. No doubt he's taken advice..in my eyes by doing this we are loosing a bit of what makes angling great.. something for everyone.. it all seems a bit soulless.
As for this making the waters more difficult. I'm not sure. Should it?.. I don't know? I tend to avoid these Carp only waters where possible.
Mixed fisheries are getting less and less. No money in Silvers it seems. A lot of carp ponds are becoming very sterile. The odd nuisance fish is all part of it for me. But I'm in the minority it seems..who don't like to sit lakeside on a summer evening watching the water dapple with Roach topping, Bream and Tench rolling. And hopefully the Odd Carp sloshing out.
I have a lot of time for Mr Fairbrass for gives back to this pastime we love. And I am in no way knocking him for it. But I no he has this idea in his head that removing nuisance fish as he calls them from his Fisheries. That this will some how improve them. Increase growth improve water quality and the like. Maybe it will. No doubt he's taken advice..in my eyes by doing this we are loosing a bit of what makes angling great.. something for everyone.. it all seems a bit soulless.
As for this making the waters more difficult. I'm not sure. Should it?.. I don't know? I tend to avoid these Carp only waters where possible.
In reply to Post #1
Could well be, but i believe that as the banks are far busier.... far more bait is dumped in the lakes. I see anglers rock up and dont think twice before hoying kilos of boilies or particle in, regardless of conditions. Day tickets are the worse for this. Bait on bait on bait. I believe this kills the fishing.
Could well be, but i believe that as the banks are far busier.... far more bait is dumped in the lakes. I see anglers rock up and dont think twice before hoying kilos of boilies or particle in, regardless of conditions. Day tickets are the worse for this. Bait on bait on bait. I believe this kills the fishing.
In reply to Post #3
+1.
Not sure how to phrase this really without peeing someone off, oh well.
Those who only want to catch Carp should stick to Carp only waters if they don't have the good grace to tolerate and respect the odd other species that finds their way onto their hook.
It generally finds its way into your net because you have failed to be selective in your approach and yet you treat it with disdain, while it admires your incompetence.
Don't get me wrong, there will be times when there's nothing you can do to avoid it, if it annoys you that much, fish Carp only waters to show what a good angler you are, no need to take it out on the fish.
I've fished waters where none Carp have been treated disgracefully, those people are not anglers and shouldn't be allowed on the bank, if they have no respect for other species.
A nice double figure Bream is a fish of a lifetime, grown naturally most of the time, often very old, benefiting from Carp baits on mixed fisheries, but for some reason holding 10 a penny fast maturing, quick dying, damaged mouth Hippopotachunk holds more merrit and you stare at it with pride.
Hmm.
+1.
Not sure how to phrase this really without peeing someone off, oh well.
Those who only want to catch Carp should stick to Carp only waters if they don't have the good grace to tolerate and respect the odd other species that finds their way onto their hook.
It generally finds its way into your net because you have failed to be selective in your approach and yet you treat it with disdain, while it admires your incompetence.
Don't get me wrong, there will be times when there's nothing you can do to avoid it, if it annoys you that much, fish Carp only waters to show what a good angler you are, no need to take it out on the fish.
I've fished waters where none Carp have been treated disgracefully, those people are not anglers and shouldn't be allowed on the bank, if they have no respect for other species.
A nice double figure Bream is a fish of a lifetime, grown naturally most of the time, often very old, benefiting from Carp baits on mixed fisheries, but for some reason holding 10 a penny fast maturing, quick dying, damaged mouth Hippopotachunk holds more merrit and you stare at it with pride.
Hmm.
In reply to Post #5
totally agree
goes along with the similar rhetoric of 'i only caught a pastie' or 'a blank saver' ??
My thoughts are simply, well you went carping and caught didn't you ? You cant expect to catch target or monster carp every trip
totally agree goes along with the similar rhetoric of 'i only caught a pastie' or 'a blank saver' ??
My thoughts are simply, well you went carping and caught didn't you ? You cant expect to catch target or monster carp every trip
I know this is a carp forum ..however a lot of people have not had a full angling apprenticeship on the significant smaller species ..therefore carp is always at the forefront of what they like to catch ..
The other day I fished a new private club water ,my intention was for tench,bream and crucians ,I didn't want to see a carp at all ..
By the end of the day ,float fishing I'd had 10 carp to mid doubles ,a bream and a roach ..I didn't enjoy it one bit ,as the carp have taken over a seemingly mixed fishery due to demands of other short sighted members ..
A balance is what is needed ,the balance should be tipped in favour of less carp ..I run a fishery ,I now have a balance of many of species, but not in favour of carp ..
Also less carp means less hassle ,have you seen how entitled and lacking all round angling etiquette some anglers have..mainly from carpers..
Carp only waters ,are boring and extremely soulless..unless it has a famously historic standing for example..
There is one thing though that's in a fisheries favour and that's in general ,carp withstand predation from cormorant and Seagulls better than the other small species..
The other day I fished a new private club water ,my intention was for tench,bream and crucians ,I didn't want to see a carp at all ..
By the end of the day ,float fishing I'd had 10 carp to mid doubles ,a bream and a roach ..I didn't enjoy it one bit ,as the carp have taken over a seemingly mixed fishery due to demands of other short sighted members ..
A balance is what is needed ,the balance should be tipped in favour of less carp ..I run a fishery ,I now have a balance of many of species, but not in favour of carp ..
Also less carp means less hassle ,have you seen how entitled and lacking all round angling etiquette some anglers have..mainly from carpers..
Carp only waters ,are boring and extremely soulless..unless it has a famously historic standing for example..
There is one thing though that's in a fisheries favour and that's in general ,carp withstand predation from cormorant and Seagulls better than the other small species..
In reply to Post #7
Absolutely agree - the but for me is catching stunning fish on carp methods, fish that I would die for but tricked accidentally - I've had big bream, perch and roach that I would be embarrassed to claim given the methods used - my conscious still allows tench to be really appreciated as I find them harder to catch than carp!
I suppose my point was a mix of lots of the replies, fishing of old seemed so much easier and more rewarding, catching bream whilst frustrating at times meant to me ‘that fish fed here' especially in winter and surely to keep on until the competition meant a bite from one of the warier carp.
My main 2/3 waters are pretty much (now) carp only and have been managed that way over many years and it feels soulless and certainly harder each year. What was once a dream is now a nightmare. On these waters when the bobbin twitches or goes - I know what's on the end. I am in a local club with quite a big match scene and fishing these waters, especially afternoon when they have gone is phenomenal- the guys are chatty and help with location and just topping up swims that have been fished hard for a few hours sees the carp move in, and not by spodding out round balls.
I've gone from wanting the catch the king of the pond to fishing lakes that only have royalty swimming around.
Absolutely agree - the but for me is catching stunning fish on carp methods, fish that I would die for but tricked accidentally - I've had big bream, perch and roach that I would be embarrassed to claim given the methods used - my conscious still allows tench to be really appreciated as I find them harder to catch than carp!
I suppose my point was a mix of lots of the replies, fishing of old seemed so much easier and more rewarding, catching bream whilst frustrating at times meant to me ‘that fish fed here' especially in winter and surely to keep on until the competition meant a bite from one of the warier carp.
My main 2/3 waters are pretty much (now) carp only and have been managed that way over many years and it feels soulless and certainly harder each year. What was once a dream is now a nightmare. On these waters when the bobbin twitches or goes - I know what's on the end. I am in a local club with quite a big match scene and fishing these waters, especially afternoon when they have gone is phenomenal- the guys are chatty and help with location and just topping up swims that have been fished hard for a few hours sees the carp move in, and not by spodding out round balls.
I've gone from wanting the catch the king of the pond to fishing lakes that only have royalty swimming around.
In reply to Post #8
Spot on mate..
I've just been given sole rights to another water ,its got carp as far as I can see I think only 5 maybe 6 low singles..
My plan is to turn it into a mixed course fishery with a nice balance of everything, especially tench ,I love tench ..especially on the float but...with the ethos of less carp ,so if you catch one it remains memorable, rather than the norm ..
( I'm not anti carp by any means ,but I'd like to see proper angling flourish once more )...
Spot on mate..
I've just been given sole rights to another water ,its got carp as far as I can see I think only 5 maybe 6 low singles..
My plan is to turn it into a mixed course fishery with a nice balance of everything, especially tench ,I love tench ..especially on the float but...with the ethos of less carp ,so if you catch one it remains memorable, rather than the norm ..
( I'm not anti carp by any means ,but I'd like to see proper angling flourish once more )...
Stepped change in the pastime predominantly when people realised they could make money from it as usual 
Look around the country and over time you will realise that the majority of fisheries were mixed and a lot of the carp were from a bygone era, advance a few decades to now and I bet there are not many waters that don't have carp in them!
The flip side is silver fish stock are taken out to reduce the competition for food so the carp can put on some pounds to attract the punters in. There's also another side to this, konditioned carp anglers who can't think for themselves and have thrashed these water to death with bait trying to be like a “carp star” (aka dreamer because around 0.0005% probably crack it £) These waters are usually hammered to death with bait and this kills the fishing and often with a few hundred rigs a day, the fish have seen it all and it makes the fishing difficult.
This might shock a few people, carp are very easy to catch! ...unless they have had a lot of pressure. You fish places where they have not seen bait and once you have found them it's like clubbing seals until they have been rattled a few times. Fish waters where they get some stick and you are sitting it out until they are desperate to have a feed. Taking away the completion in theory can promote growth by reducing mouths but it also gives them an opportunity to graze on what they want, add naturals and mongs canning the bait in be prepared to sit there for a very long time. In the past I have been a heavy baiter because it has worked for me 70% of the time and the learning is, it is all water dependant. Theres a style of fishing that I never believed in, the pub chuckle with a yellow Wagner, lottery fishing, not stacking the odds in your favour for me, but think about the above, what's happening and I do believe the the likes of top quality attractive single hookbaits can really do the damage on these types of waters, if you are prepared to sit behind them for long enough but ultimately it's horses for courses for me
Look around the country and over time you will realise that the majority of fisheries were mixed and a lot of the carp were from a bygone era, advance a few decades to now and I bet there are not many waters that don't have carp in them!
The flip side is silver fish stock are taken out to reduce the competition for food so the carp can put on some pounds to attract the punters in. There's also another side to this, konditioned carp anglers who can't think for themselves and have thrashed these water to death with bait trying to be like a “carp star” (aka dreamer because around 0.0005% probably crack it £) These waters are usually hammered to death with bait and this kills the fishing and often with a few hundred rigs a day, the fish have seen it all and it makes the fishing difficult.
This might shock a few people, carp are very easy to catch! ...unless they have had a lot of pressure. You fish places where they have not seen bait and once you have found them it's like clubbing seals until they have been rattled a few times. Fish waters where they get some stick and you are sitting it out until they are desperate to have a feed. Taking away the completion in theory can promote growth by reducing mouths but it also gives them an opportunity to graze on what they want, add naturals and mongs canning the bait in be prepared to sit there for a very long time. In the past I have been a heavy baiter because it has worked for me 70% of the time and the learning is, it is all water dependant. Theres a style of fishing that I never believed in, the pub chuckle with a yellow Wagner, lottery fishing, not stacking the odds in your favour for me, but think about the above, what's happening and I do believe the the likes of top quality attractive single hookbaits can really do the damage on these types of waters, if you are prepared to sit behind them for long enough but ultimately it's horses for courses for me
I have an alter ego in the fishing world.
The other me fishes for all species. The other me makes, restores and uses traditional vintage tackle and fishes for the same species as I did when I was a youngster. The same delights and wonderment are still there.
My syndicate water holds a good head of mixed fish. Occasionally there will be a netting party when the population gets a bit high but this is just for balance. Sometimes I fish it purely for the mixed coarse fish just to ring the changes and get away from the high tech world.
Other places further afield are also fished, small ponds, rivers, often unfished pools.
As a far better angler than I said ...”don't forget to smell the roses along the way”
The other me fishes for all species. The other me makes, restores and uses traditional vintage tackle and fishes for the same species as I did when I was a youngster. The same delights and wonderment are still there.
My syndicate water holds a good head of mixed fish. Occasionally there will be a netting party when the population gets a bit high but this is just for balance. Sometimes I fish it purely for the mixed coarse fish just to ring the changes and get away from the high tech world.
Other places further afield are also fished, small ponds, rivers, often unfished pools.
As a far better angler than I said ...”don't forget to smell the roses along the way”
In reply to Post #11
Looks great.
Looks great.
In reply to Post #11
Brilliant
Brilliant
When I bought my place I had dream. A decent stock of fair sized carp (20lb+) that the members would be happy fishing for, and a healthy population of quality sized rudd, roach, perch and pike that only I would pester. This would be achieved by thinning out the silvers periodically.
Well then the cormorants arrived and ruined that dream. When netting nowadays there aren't any decent silvers, just boards of tiny little rudd and roach and barely any perch.
When my place was netted two years ago I gave all of the little silvers to a local club that had a water all but wiped out by cormorants.
Another local club have just drained, renovated and restocked a lake with silvers and crucians, I've been watching the cormorants land there every day this winter. It will be wrecked.
I know Baysey has tried to develop mixed fisheries but has given up because of predation. We're not alone.
Whether we like it or not, in many waters the future is carp.
Well then the cormorants arrived and ruined that dream. When netting nowadays there aren't any decent silvers, just boards of tiny little rudd and roach and barely any perch.
When my place was netted two years ago I gave all of the little silvers to a local club that had a water all but wiped out by cormorants.
Another local club have just drained, renovated and restocked a lake with silvers and crucians, I've been watching the cormorants land there every day this winter. It will be wrecked.
I know Baysey has tried to develop mixed fisheries but has given up because of predation. We're not alone.
Whether we like it or not, in many waters the future is carp.
In reply to Post #11
Lovely tackle ,lovely photos ,well jell..NN..
Lovely tackle ,lovely photos ,well jell..NN..
In reply to Post #15
We used to find bream dumped in the bushes when we were kids wandering around the larkfield complex.
We used to find bream dumped in the bushes when we were kids wandering around the larkfield complex.
In reply to Post #16
I've heard all the horror storiesl over the years as well. Hopefully we live in more enlightened times.
I've heard all the horror storiesl over the years as well. Hopefully we live in more enlightened times.
In reply to Post #16
When I was a kid, match fisherman used to throw Pope up the bank as they couldn't weigh them in on Thames matches.
When I was a kid, match fisherman used to throw Pope up the bank as they couldn't weigh them in on Thames matches.
On some famous Salmon and trout rivers I remember father telling me about grayling, chub and various other lovely species being chucked up the bank ..
Wrong on every level that was ..
I think Pete the Crip wrote about it ...( lovely chap ,very interesting life )
Wrong on every level that was ..
I think Pete the Crip wrote about it ...( lovely chap ,very interesting life )
In reply to Post #1
I agree! A lot of cat invested waters now as well majority by choice. Reminds me of big game fishing rather than traditional fishing. Even big carp fishing it was about the character, history and looks of the fish not just its size.
I like catching all species and don't turn my nose up when a tench or break graces the net, but cats not for me.
I agree! A lot of cat invested waters now as well majority by choice. Reminds me of big game fishing rather than traditional fishing. Even big carp fishing it was about the character, history and looks of the fish not just its size.
I like catching all species and don't turn my nose up when a tench or break graces the net, but cats not for me.
In reply to Post #20
A lot of cat invested waters now as well
Agree, and how do they get away with that, especially some in monstrous proportions, and near river systems!
A lot of cat invested waters now as well
Agree, and how do they get away with that, especially some in monstrous proportions, and near river systems!
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