Abusinessman could lose his £2million fishing lakes as an angler he employed won a £490,000 payout at the High Court after falling off a ladder - resulting in a series of injuries - while he was undertaking work at the property.
Ricki Sartin, 53, was helping to cut back a tree at Norwich's freshwater Layfield Lakes when his ladder was struck by a branch in June 2017.
The impact knocked him to the ground, and as a result he sustained a number of injuries including a broken hip, wrist and ribs.
Grandfather Mr Sartin had also agreed to do odd jobs with other anglers after being offered a waiver of his annual fishing permit by the lakes' owner, Darren Layfield, 48.
However, he sued his former friend after accusing him of using him as 'cheap labour' - despite being unqualified and having 'no training or expertise in the kind of maintenance work' that was being requested of him.
Now, Mr Sartin has been awarded in around £490,000 in compensation.
The court also heard that Mr Layfield could be in danger of losing his lakes, after being handed a £159,000 lawyers' bill on top of the compensation payout.
Ricki Sartin, 53, was helping to cut back a tree at Norwich's freshwater Layfield Lakes when his ladder was struck by a branch in June 2017.
The impact knocked him to the ground, and as a result he sustained a number of injuries including a broken hip, wrist and ribs.
Grandfather Mr Sartin had also agreed to do odd jobs with other anglers after being offered a waiver of his annual fishing permit by the lakes' owner, Darren Layfield, 48.
However, he sued his former friend after accusing him of using him as 'cheap labour' - despite being unqualified and having 'no training or expertise in the kind of maintenance work' that was being requested of him.
Now, Mr Sartin has been awarded in around £490,000 in compensation.
The court also heard that Mr Layfield could be in danger of losing his lakes, after being handed a £159,000 lawyers' bill on top of the compensation payout.
In reply to Post #1
I dont know about you, but I would jump off a ladder for £490k.
I dont know about you, but I would jump off a ladder for £490k.
In reply to Post #2
A good mate you are....
A good mate you are....
In reply to Post #1
Happy to get cheaper/free fishing, then fecks up and cries about it....
Happy to get cheaper/free fishing, then fecks up and cries about it....
In reply to Post #4
My thoughts also.
I now know why my last syndicate didn't have work parties and shut the lake for a week to carry out repairs/work, clearly for insurance purposes. Can see more fisheries doing this now. Hope they do for their sake.
However, he sued his former friend after accusing him of using him as 'cheap labour' - despite being unqualified and having 'no training or expertise in the kind of maintenance work' that was being requested of him.
Former friend....
My thoughts also.
I now know why my last syndicate didn't have work parties and shut the lake for a week to carry out repairs/work, clearly for insurance purposes. Can see more fisheries doing this now. Hope they do for their sake.
However, he sued his former friend after accusing him of using him as 'cheap labour' - despite being unqualified and having 'no training or expertise in the kind of maintenance work' that was being requested of him.
Former friend....
I'd have rung his phecking neck.
In reply to Post #5
how many lakes have work parties? 99.9% i'd say, i know i do.
after this, it makes you wonder doesn't it, and work wont get carried out as non profit lakes (mine) couldnt afford professional help. That then leaves work not being carried out and to the detriment of the syndicates
how many lakes have work parties? 99.9% i'd say, i know i do.
after this, it makes you wonder doesn't it, and work wont get carried out as non profit lakes (mine) couldnt afford professional help. That then leaves work not being carried out and to the detriment of the syndicates
In reply to Post #7
oh I know mate, the syndicate I was on prior to the last one had one every month !!
Work parties are all part of fishing to me, it's been mentioned on here on previous threads in the past, but after 3 years of work parties every month (I was a Bailiff) it was nice not to have to do one
oh I know mate, the syndicate I was on prior to the last one had one every month !!
Work parties are all part of fishing to me, it's been mentioned on here on previous threads in the past, but after 3 years of work parties every month (I was a Bailiff) it was nice not to have to do one
In reply to Post #7
Big difference between a true syndicate where you are all equal partners on a not for profit basis and a members only water run and owned by a single individual or group for profit.
If this happened on a true syndicate the court case wouldn't have happened, you'd be basically taking yourself to court.
A lot on here don't understand what a true syndicate is.
Never done a work party in my life on water's such as the latter, if the owner wants to make money then pay for the upkeep. On syndicates in the 80s and 90s I did every party.
Big difference between a true syndicate where you are all equal partners on a not for profit basis and a members only water run and owned by a single individual or group for profit.
If this happened on a true syndicate the court case wouldn't have happened, you'd be basically taking yourself to court.
A lot on here don't understand what a true syndicate is.
Never done a work party in my life on water's such as the latter, if the owner wants to make money then pay for the upkeep. On syndicates in the 80s and 90s I did every party.
In reply to Post #9
Mine is pure NON profit
every single member pays the same, and has a complete say in the way its run. I host an AGM, where the account are shared for info and input. Every single penny goes back into the lake and is totally transparent
Mine is pure NON profit
every single member pays the same, and has a complete say in the way its run. I host an AGM, where the account are shared for info and input. Every single penny goes back into the lake and is totally transparent
In reply to Post #10
Sorry post wasn't aimed at you, what you describe seems the perfect set up 👍
Sorry post wasn't aimed at you, what you describe seems the perfect set up 👍
Trouble is that clubs etc. don't think of work parties as actual work.
All clubs etc should have a full risk assessment written and method statements in place, the same as if you were asking someone to work on a building site. You definitely shouldn't be allowing unqualified people to be up a ladder with a chainsaw. I know we all naturally think that personal responsibility should trump all, but in just doesn't in the modern world. It's why I do 99% of the work myself at my place.
All clubs etc should have a full risk assessment written and method statements in place, the same as if you were asking someone to work on a building site. You definitely shouldn't be allowing unqualified people to be up a ladder with a chainsaw. I know we all naturally think that personal responsibility should trump all, but in just doesn't in the modern world. It's why I do 99% of the work myself at my place.
In reply to Post #11
no need to apologise mate, i was merely saying that my lake is headed by me (ive got a big gob) and the members have all the say.
i run it based on their subs contributions, its my job to ensure that the books balance, their money is invested back into the lake in the correct way. i provide options and steer them with various ideas. Ultimately, they decide, is delegate.
Ive always said "its our lake"
no need to apologise mate, i was merely saying that my lake is headed by me (ive got a big gob) and the members have all the say.
i run it based on their subs contributions, its my job to ensure that the books balance, their money is invested back into the lake in the correct way. i provide options and steer them with various ideas. Ultimately, they decide, is delegate.
Ive always said "its our lake"
In reply to Post #12
maybe we should change the terminology to
"Help parties" OR "Volunteers Parties"
maybe we should change the terminology to
"Help parties" OR "Volunteers Parties"
In reply to Post #14
All you need is volunteers to sign a waiver, much like everyone does when they purchase a car park ticket, not that many would know that.
All you need is volunteers to sign a waiver, much like everyone does when they purchase a car park ticket, not that many would know that.
In reply to Post #15
very good point
very good point
I've noticed alot of clubs local to me, using outside contractors for a lot of work around the lakes, makes sense reading this.
In reply to Post #13
Do you have any sort of insurance policies in play?
Do you have any sort of insurance policies in play?
maybe get all volunteers sign a disclaimer prior to any work party being done??
One things for sure the price of your ticket is going up.
In reply to Post #19
That's all it needs
That's all it needs
In reply to Post #18
yes we are fully insured and each member signs a work party H&S policy.
I write H&S operating procedures as part of my consultancy business, but im now going to go through them with a fine tooth comb
yes we are fully insured and each member signs a work party H&S policy.
I write H&S operating procedures as part of my consultancy business, but im now going to go through them with a fine tooth comb
In reply to Post #15
Waivers/disclaimers aren't a silver bullet, as they don't absolve someone from their duty of care obligations nor from statutory obligations. For example you could still be sued for negligence or breaching health and safety legislation. So in the case cited earlier, the lake owner would probably have lost whether or not a waiver was signed.
Waivers/disclaimers aren't a silver bullet, as they don't absolve someone from their duty of care obligations nor from statutory obligations. For example you could still be sued for negligence or breaching health and safety legislation. So in the case cited earlier, the lake owner would probably have lost whether or not a waiver was signed.
Just looked on a club close to me, they have a great risk assessment on their website, does not cover working at height though 
In reply to Post #5
I read about this the other day and to begin with I thought this, but the more I think about it, sadly, I think the lake owner is responsible. It's his lake and he is responsible for the safety of members. A lake I used to fish in the early 90's chopped off all the lower branches we used to use to climb the trees due to public liability insurance.
Bailiff was really clear that even if we accepted the risks, it didn't absolve the lake owner from the public liability aspect.
I'm sure that no one wanted this outcome, but sometimes unintended consequences can have significant legal implications.
Motto is better to be safe than be sorry, I guess.
I read about this the other day and to begin with I thought this, but the more I think about it, sadly, I think the lake owner is responsible. It's his lake and he is responsible for the safety of members. A lake I used to fish in the early 90's chopped off all the lower branches we used to use to climb the trees due to public liability insurance.
Bailiff was really clear that even if we accepted the risks, it didn't absolve the lake owner from the public liability aspect.
I'm sure that no one wanted this outcome, but sometimes unintended consequences can have significant legal implications.
Motto is better to be safe than be sorry, I guess.
In reply to Post #25
I think blackfield and nickfishermen are correct.
A couple of years ago I bought a small boat (funyak wasp) for syndicate members to use only in emergency situations ie freeing up tethered fish. Via the syndicate leader, I sent out an e-mail to all members outlining the rules and recommendations for using the boat.
A life jacket or buoyancy aid (3 available in various sizes) must be worn at all times, no exceptions. If you are a non swimmer a proper life jacket is essential.
Only one person to be in the boat. This is a ONE man boat
Only to be used in emergency situations, no baiting up, placing rigs or general rowing around looking for clear spots.
It is a small lightweight boat, I would strongly advise not using it in strong winds or big waves.
A scenario I was given as an example of what can go wrong.
A member, Fred , who has hurt himself and broken his arm when he slipped on some mud on the deck of the boat . Fred is self employed and is off work for six months . He tells you – ‘no worries mate , not your fault, I won't claim a penny and I'm insured anyway for being off work'. So he is , and his insurer pays out. But then the insurer is entitled , in Fred's name , and whether he likes it or not , to sue anybody who it thinks caused the accident , and to keep the damages to mitigate its own loss by paying Fred.
I think blackfield and nickfishermen are correct.
A couple of years ago I bought a small boat (funyak wasp) for syndicate members to use only in emergency situations ie freeing up tethered fish. Via the syndicate leader, I sent out an e-mail to all members outlining the rules and recommendations for using the boat.
A life jacket or buoyancy aid (3 available in various sizes) must be worn at all times, no exceptions. If you are a non swimmer a proper life jacket is essential.
Only one person to be in the boat. This is a ONE man boat
Only to be used in emergency situations, no baiting up, placing rigs or general rowing around looking for clear spots.
It is a small lightweight boat, I would strongly advise not using it in strong winds or big waves.
A scenario I was given as an example of what can go wrong.
A member, Fred , who has hurt himself and broken his arm when he slipped on some mud on the deck of the boat . Fred is self employed and is off work for six months . He tells you – ‘no worries mate , not your fault, I won't claim a penny and I'm insured anyway for being off work'. So he is , and his insurer pays out. But then the insurer is entitled , in Fred's name , and whether he likes it or not , to sue anybody who it thinks caused the accident , and to keep the damages to mitigate its own loss by paying Fred.
In reply to Post #26
Two clubs I know, have nominated suitably qualified members as their Health and Safety representatives. Work parties are risked assessed and method statements put in place. Inductions are then carried out. Anyone using certain tools ie chain saws have to have the proper tickets in place and PPE.
Whilst most clubs have no tangible assets to attack, anyone owning lakes could be a target for claims.
With the no win no fee culture its an easy route if you are injured on a work party.
Two clubs I know, have nominated suitably qualified members as their Health and Safety representatives. Work parties are risked assessed and method statements put in place. Inductions are then carried out. Anyone using certain tools ie chain saws have to have the proper tickets in place and PPE.
Whilst most clubs have no tangible assets to attack, anyone owning lakes could be a target for claims.
With the no win no fee culture its an easy route if you are injured on a work party.
Seems like Ricki Sartin is a arse!
I Stopped having “Work Parties” years back. Truth be told – most of the maintenance work can be carried out while fishing (Just set up in the same location) or after a session, like – weed killing, strimming, wood chipping swims, Brick Laying, Pointing, over-flow repairs, swim repairs/rebuilds, Otter Fence repairs/upgrades, servicing Generators & Water Pumps etc.......... stuff that personally I don't mind doing, I just take all the tooling/materials required along with my fishing gear.
I'm not skilled enough to do major tree work, as it's not something I've ever done, If any such work is required – I'd get someone in whose job it is. This guy who got injured, was probably way out of his depth and should have had the common sense to not take such work on.
I'm not skilled enough to do major tree work, as it's not something I've ever done, If any such work is required – I'd get someone in whose job it is. This guy who got injured, was probably way out of his depth and should have had the common sense to not take such work on.
In reply to Post #29
On my syndicate we are asked to help with weed cutting if we are available and some of us will wade out to clear swims. Any expert work has to be approved and done by professional contractors as it is inside a Capability Brown landscaped Park Estate.
On my syndicate we are asked to help with weed cutting if we are available and some of us will wade out to clear swims. Any expert work has to be approved and done by professional contractors as it is inside a Capability Brown landscaped Park Estate.
In reply to Post #28
Why? This guy was injured cutting down branches off trees, which is a totally different ball game to doing odd jobs and general maintainance;- lopping bits off trees requires the right knowledge and equipment, even if you think you know what to do. I mean, you wouldn't expect him to do electrical work without the proper qualifications?
The owner of Bossard lake in France broke his back from falling out of a tree when a branch he cut from from a tree rolled back and knocked the ladder away and he'd been doing tree work for years.
Seems like the lake owner may have been taking advantage of the "arrangement" by getting him to do this job. Bottom lines are that one fella was seriously injured and the other may be going out of business. No winners here, IMO.
Why? This guy was injured cutting down branches off trees, which is a totally different ball game to doing odd jobs and general maintainance;- lopping bits off trees requires the right knowledge and equipment, even if you think you know what to do. I mean, you wouldn't expect him to do electrical work without the proper qualifications?
The owner of Bossard lake in France broke his back from falling out of a tree when a branch he cut from from a tree rolled back and knocked the ladder away and he'd been doing tree work for years.
Seems like the lake owner may have been taking advantage of the "arrangement" by getting him to do this job. Bottom lines are that one fella was seriously injured and the other may be going out of business. No winners here, IMO.
In reply to Post #31
Why?
the guy offered himself out as a handyman to pay for his ticket, he carried out maintenance on the complex if he wasn't happy with the job he shouldn't of carried out the task.
Apart from repairing paths and lopping reeds, clearing reeds i cant see much more he could offer.
Without a description of the tasks required, which I doubt there was it was just acting as a service for a free ticket which is only £500
Why?
the guy offered himself out as a handyman to pay for his ticket, he carried out maintenance on the complex if he wasn't happy with the job he shouldn't of carried out the task.
Apart from repairing paths and lopping reeds, clearing reeds i cant see much more he could offer.
Without a description of the tasks required, which I doubt there was it was just acting as a service for a free ticket which is only £500
In reply to Post #32
It must be fairly common knowledge that to use a chainsaw you should have had the relevant training. It's difficult to believe that both parties did not know this so in my view they are both at fault.
There are various qualifications depending on the complexity (and danger ) of what needs to be done which may not be so well known but a tree surgeon qualified to any standard would know this.
If he had possessed the relevant qualifications then he would have been taught that you only use a chainsaw on a ladder if you want a trip to A&E.
Even without the chainsaw qualification, it should be fairly obvious that if you cut a branch while stood on a ladder, that branch stands a good chance of taking your ladder out when it falls.
It must be fairly common knowledge that to use a chainsaw you should have had the relevant training. It's difficult to believe that both parties did not know this so in my view they are both at fault.
There are various qualifications depending on the complexity (and danger ) of what needs to be done which may not be so well known but a tree surgeon qualified to any standard would know this.
If he had possessed the relevant qualifications then he would have been taught that you only use a chainsaw on a ladder if you want a trip to A&E.
Even without the chainsaw qualification, it should be fairly obvious that if you cut a branch while stood on a ladder, that branch stands a good chance of taking your ladder out when it falls.
In reply to Post #33
It doesn't state anywhere in the article he was using a chainsaw, for all we know he had a wood saw.
I use a chainsaw (Mot regularly but still own one) and have had no relevant training, I've also never seen any training/course available.
It doesn't state anywhere in the article he was using a chainsaw, for all we know he had a wood saw.
I use a chainsaw (Mot regularly but still own one) and have had no relevant training, I've also never seen any training/course available.
In reply to Post #1
Both at fault in my opinion, Ricky just by the fact he's cutting a tree back off a ladder tells you he is no Arborist and should never of been up a ladder and the owner of the lake shouldn't of let him undertake that task in the first place, both looking at saving a bit of money both responsible for their own actions, in this instance the lake owner has been deemed the employer and Ricky the employee although I doubt there was a contract of employment signed.
Both at fault in my opinion, Ricky just by the fact he's cutting a tree back off a ladder tells you he is no Arborist and should never of been up a ladder and the owner of the lake shouldn't of let him undertake that task in the first place, both looking at saving a bit of money both responsible for their own actions, in this instance the lake owner has been deemed the employer and Ricky the employee although I doubt there was a contract of employment signed.
In reply to Post #34
Read the article again.
Read the article again.
In reply to Post #34
Ok I'll give you that one.
However the same working principles apply whatever saw you are using.
Silky hand saws are often used by tree surgeons for smaller branches but they still would have had training in their use for aerial tree pruning ( old CS40 course amongst others) and definitely would have known the dangers of working off a ladder whatever saw they use.
Re training courses. Obviously you live in a different area but there are two training centres within 7 miles of me and many more a little further away. Anyone interested would need to book as they normally run courses for groups but a “starter” course to CS30 standard wouldn't be too expensive.
Ok I'll give you that one.
However the same working principles apply whatever saw you are using.
Silky hand saws are often used by tree surgeons for smaller branches but they still would have had training in their use for aerial tree pruning ( old CS40 course amongst others) and definitely would have known the dangers of working off a ladder whatever saw they use.
Re training courses. Obviously you live in a different area but there are two training centres within 7 miles of me and many more a little further away. Anyone interested would need to book as they normally run courses for groups but a “starter” course to CS30 standard wouldn't be too expensive.
In reply to Post #35
On the contract point, there need be no contract because negligence and duty of care are torts (common law non-contractual obligations), while health and safety law is set in statute (law set by Parliament). They exist as overarching provisions in UK law, whether or not there is a contract. This is why waivers/disclaimers make no difference.
If we use this branch example in another way - if there was a public footpath around the lake and there was a rotten branch hanging above it, and that fell and injured a member of the public using the footpath, then the lake owner would still be in danger of being sued for negligence irrespective of there being no contractual/employer/employee relationship. It would be a foreseeable risk and so the lake owner would be negligent in not taking appropriate steps to mitigate. Their defence would likely rely on proving that they had taken appropriate steps to mitigate (which could be hard to prove without a detailed paper trail).
Also worth being aware that even if the injured party didn't decide to sue (nor their insurer) you could still be sued by the Heath and Safety Executive.
That said there probably would be a contract in the OP case as many clubs and syndicates include within their rules/T&Cs an obligation to attend X number of work parties a year - so this forms part of the contract (of sale) between the club/syndicate and member. But whether or not there is a contract would most likely be irrelevant given the above.
On the contract point, there need be no contract because negligence and duty of care are torts (common law non-contractual obligations), while health and safety law is set in statute (law set by Parliament). They exist as overarching provisions in UK law, whether or not there is a contract. This is why waivers/disclaimers make no difference.
If we use this branch example in another way - if there was a public footpath around the lake and there was a rotten branch hanging above it, and that fell and injured a member of the public using the footpath, then the lake owner would still be in danger of being sued for negligence irrespective of there being no contractual/employer/employee relationship. It would be a foreseeable risk and so the lake owner would be negligent in not taking appropriate steps to mitigate. Their defence would likely rely on proving that they had taken appropriate steps to mitigate (which could be hard to prove without a detailed paper trail).
Also worth being aware that even if the injured party didn't decide to sue (nor their insurer) you could still be sued by the Heath and Safety Executive.
That said there probably would be a contract in the OP case as many clubs and syndicates include within their rules/T&Cs an obligation to attend X number of work parties a year - so this forms part of the contract (of sale) between the club/syndicate and member. But whether or not there is a contract would most likely be irrelevant given the above.
I feel sorry for the lake owner, as normal people we simply dont go through life looking at things like a lawyer does. Lets be honest most of us in day to day like dont even consider that we might have an accident.
The one thing I cant understand is that the injured guy simply didnt say no Im not experienced enough to be climbing trees so I will do some other work instead. For example if my club asked me to go out in a boat without a life jacket, or to carry 30kg bags of gravel round the lake without a wheelbarrow, common sense says that I wouldnt do it. If i got in trouble at school and I said to my mum "Dave told me to do it", straightaway she'd say "If Dave told you to jump off a cliff would you?".
The work parties on the lakes Im a member of have certainly become a lot more professional in the last few years. No one just picks up a chainsaw anymore and has a go. Or climbs trees etc.
The one thing I cant understand is that the injured guy simply didnt say no Im not experienced enough to be climbing trees so I will do some other work instead. For example if my club asked me to go out in a boat without a life jacket, or to carry 30kg bags of gravel round the lake without a wheelbarrow, common sense says that I wouldnt do it. If i got in trouble at school and I said to my mum "Dave told me to do it", straightaway she'd say "If Dave told you to jump off a cliff would you?".
The work parties on the lakes Im a member of have certainly become a lot more professional in the last few years. No one just picks up a chainsaw anymore and has a go. Or climbs trees etc.
Sounds like the guy got rewarded for being a useless moron to me.
In reply to Post #39
Yeah, the law is an ass as they say - you never want to get caught up in it. The clash of what law demands vs the way most of us bumble about in reality can be pretty brutal.
Forever seeing videos from Nash, etc, advising people to climb up trees to look for where the carp are - does just make me think noooooooooooo!! Tho maybe Nash don't realise they would be in just as much danger of being sued as a lake owner if someone gets injured following their advice by climbing up a tree.
Yeah, the law is an ass as they say - you never want to get caught up in it. The clash of what law demands vs the way most of us bumble about in reality can be pretty brutal.
Forever seeing videos from Nash, etc, advising people to climb up trees to look for where the carp are - does just make me think noooooooooooo!! Tho maybe Nash don't realise they would be in just as much danger of being sued as a lake owner if someone gets injured following their advice by climbing up a tree.
In reply to Post #41
To be fair they probably should have been sued by now for some of the awful tat they've sold in the last few years. Crimes against carp fishing.
“Mr Nash you stand accused of selling some god awful tat in the last few years including tea light heaters and Bankside walkways. How does your client plead?”
“No contest your honour “
To be fair they probably should have been sued by now for some of the awful tat they've sold in the last few years. Crimes against carp fishing.
“Mr Nash you stand accused of selling some god awful tat in the last few years including tea light heaters and Bankside walkways. How does your client plead?”
“No contest your honour “
There are many Laws on the Statute Books but the one that often upsets the apple cart is one that isn't on the books. It's the Law of Unintended Consequences or if you prefer Sod's Law.
There are very few isolated incidents, most are a combination of events or circumstances coming together to cause a problem.
In this case it is an owner who is a bit tight fisted and wanted to save a few quid coming into contact with a ‘mate' who was a certifiable idiot therefore the outcome was settled, first in the accident and secondly in the court of law.
There are very few isolated incidents, most are a combination of events or circumstances coming together to cause a problem.
In this case it is an owner who is a bit tight fisted and wanted to save a few quid coming into contact with a ‘mate' who was a certifiable idiot therefore the outcome was settled, first in the accident and secondly in the court of law.
A work party conversation I've had a few times...
Bloke in charge of work party: Have you ever/do you know how to use a chainsaw?
Me: No.
Bloke in charge of work party: Okay, no worries, go and do xyz instead.
Quite simple really.
Bloke in charge of work party: Have you ever/do you know how to use a chainsaw?
Me: No.
Bloke in charge of work party: Okay, no worries, go and do xyz instead.
Quite simple really.
In reply to Post #39
I wish I'd known this sooner...
And if you see Dave, tell the **** I'm looking for him
I wish I'd known this sooner...
And if you see Dave, tell the **** I'm looking for him
In reply to Post #45
He's got an awful lot to answer for has our Dave.
He's got an awful lot to answer for has our Dave.
It all revolves around money.
In reply to Post #47
doesnt everything?
they dont say its the route of all evil for nothing.
Lake owner doesnt want to pay out for professionals - saving money
Member does work for a free ticket - saving money
Member gets injured - wants to make money
Ambulance chasing lawyer - making money
Lake owner - losing money
its all about the ££££££££££££
imagine a world where it didnt exist. Whats the lyric from The Verve song "Try to make ends meet, your'e a slave to money, then you die" Pretty much sums up my life.
doesnt everything?
they dont say its the route of all evil for nothing.
Lake owner doesnt want to pay out for professionals - saving money
Member does work for a free ticket - saving money
Member gets injured - wants to make money
Ambulance chasing lawyer - making money
Lake owner - losing money
its all about the ££££££££££££
imagine a world where it didnt exist. Whats the lyric from The Verve song "Try to make ends meet, your'e a slave to money, then you die" Pretty much sums up my life.
In reply to Post #48
Couple of angling clubs around me have always has work parties, probably to save paying professionals and when they are charging what they are for year book to be fair I can see why
Work parties on private waters, nope, isn't that called been used as a mug? Unless there is a free ticket offer or something that benefits the angler for me
Couple of angling clubs around me have always has work parties, probably to save paying professionals and when they are charging what they are for year book to be fair I can see why
Work parties on private waters, nope, isn't that called been used as a mug? Unless there is a free ticket offer or something that benefits the angler for me
In reply to Post #49
I actually enjoy our work parties. I get to meet other members that I wouldn't necessarily see. But I guess I'm lucky as they are very well organised, risk assessed etc and any dangerous stuff is done by outside contractors. Most of the time is just basic swim maintenance and building fires etc. Each lake of the complexes has a dedicated water management member so all the work Is preplanned to be as easy as possible and all ppe is provided. To be honest even when they are physical they aren't a chore. Plus you get a say in what you want done to a point. As long as it's sensible the committee rarely say no. So you do get something back, maybe trees cut back to make a cast easier or perhaps a swim levelled out etc.
I actually enjoy our work parties. I get to meet other members that I wouldn't necessarily see. But I guess I'm lucky as they are very well organised, risk assessed etc and any dangerous stuff is done by outside contractors. Most of the time is just basic swim maintenance and building fires etc. Each lake of the complexes has a dedicated water management member so all the work Is preplanned to be as easy as possible and all ppe is provided. To be honest even when they are physical they aren't a chore. Plus you get a say in what you want done to a point. As long as it's sensible the committee rarely say no. So you do get something back, maybe trees cut back to make a cast easier or perhaps a swim levelled out etc.
In reply to Post #50
Got to admit there has been a lot of good work done on some of the waters I used to fish over the years and all voluntary labour, reed bed clearing, brilliant new platforms etc and it does make the angling better, to the point bankside management really is a necessity. To be fair I find it therapeutic pruning, I have created a lot of swims on some waters myself over the years and where I am fishing now I have been doing a bit of prep. Bought myself a carryall size silky saw earlier this year, what a weapon that is, highly rated
More overgrown the better for me though, make my own little swims, I loved reading about the Mere and how they were fishing it, that's my preferred style minus the boats, Wraysbury overgrown, all paradise for me
Got to admit there has been a lot of good work done on some of the waters I used to fish over the years and all voluntary labour, reed bed clearing, brilliant new platforms etc and it does make the angling better, to the point bankside management really is a necessity. To be fair I find it therapeutic pruning, I have created a lot of swims on some waters myself over the years and where I am fishing now I have been doing a bit of prep. Bought myself a carryall size silky saw earlier this year, what a weapon that is, highly rated
More overgrown the better for me though, make my own little swims, I loved reading about the Mere and how they were fishing it, that's my preferred style minus the boats, Wraysbury overgrown, all paradise for me
Im not far from Layfields, ive never fished it but heard bad reports of how its run and how busy it is.
I've on a estate lake syndicate, once a year we have a work party which is next week.
members bring there own tools, i normally bring down my quad and scythe to cut reeds.
There's 40 member on my syndicate and its a good way of seeing old faces.
My club water holds weekly work parties on a Thursday during closed season, by helping out with general tasks you get a £5 voucher to be used for the next years memberships, its only £50 a year.
I've on a estate lake syndicate, once a year we have a work party which is next week.
members bring there own tools, i normally bring down my quad and scythe to cut reeds.
There's 40 member on my syndicate and its a good way of seeing old faces.
My club water holds weekly work parties on a Thursday during closed season, by helping out with general tasks you get a £5 voucher to be used for the next years memberships, its only £50 a year.
We have employers liability insurance and have risked assessed all tasks which members have to sign the risk assessment. So I'm hoping we're covered.??
I wonder just how many lake owners have actually got Public Liability Insurance in force, let alone Employers Liability cover, which, you would require for any jobs being undertaken by members on your behalf?
Not that many i would wager?
Not that many i would wager?
In reply to Post #52
£5 voucher to be used for the next years memberships, it's only £50 a year.
Nice little gesture that
£5 voucher to be used for the next years memberships, it's only £50 a year.
Nice little gesture that
In reply to Post #55
Not the reason i do the parties as i wouldnt take the voucher id rather the club reinvests it but a lovely gesture for the old boys.
Not the reason i do the parties as i wouldnt take the voucher id rather the club reinvests it but a lovely gesture for the old boys.
In reply to Post #56
Similar to me, if I was doing it I would do it for the club for free. The clubs around me were the lifeblood of fishing for a long time and the ticket prices reflecting on where we are now for the variety of waters we're for virtually nothing!
However, private waters run as a business and charging a premium can ask for work parties is beyond me unless people really want to do it of course, their choice, I know I wouldn't!
I read a website of a certain water a while ago, to join would had to attend so many work parties to “get to know everybody” in other words some cheap labour
Similar to me, if I was doing it I would do it for the club for free. The clubs around me were the lifeblood of fishing for a long time and the ticket prices reflecting on where we are now for the variety of waters we're for virtually nothing!
However, private waters run as a business and charging a premium can ask for work parties is beyond me unless people really want to do it of course, their choice, I know I wouldn't!
I read a website of a certain water a while ago, to join would had to attend so many work parties to “get to know everybody” in other words some cheap labour
In reply to Post #57
Not all privately owned waters run at a worthwhile profit mate, mine certainly doesn't at the moment.
You could argue that asking members for help is a way of keeping the cost of membership down compared with using outside contractors.
IMO just another example of 'if you don't like it don't join'.
In fact over the years many of my members have asked if I could have work parties.
Not all privately owned waters run at a worthwhile profit mate, mine certainly doesn't at the moment.
You could argue that asking members for help is a way of keeping the cost of membership down compared with using outside contractors.
IMO just another example of 'if you don't like it don't join'.
In fact over the years many of my members have asked if I could have work parties.
I think the last work party I attended I moved a few twigs and branches about 30 yards, then stood around talking with the owner for about 3 hours afterwards.
In reply to Post #59
I'll have to keep my eye on you lol
I'll have to keep my eye on you lol
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