Picked up a winter ticket for a change from my club waters. I was planning using live system this winter, but they allow nuts and the fish see a lot of krill apparently so couple of questions.

Are tigers any good in the winter?
I was always told fishmeal baits weren't much cop in the cold water, is this right?

One last thing, since I've started fishing again I've been using Moore's baits but my catch rate has been terrible, I know I shouldn't blame my tools,but has their bait changed over the last decade because it doesn't seem to have the same pulling power that it used to.

Cheers

In reply to Post #1
From working my way through Terry Hearn's new book, if I was allowed to use nuts, I'd be all over tigers.

In reply to Post #1
Yes Tigers work through winter, as do fishmeals .

Live system is a good bait, I don't think you can blame that.

If I could use nuts I'd go for peanuts.

In reply to Post #1
Can't really blame the baits made by X company... location and being on feeding fish is key.
You would still blank on nut baits with bad angling.
Use what you are confident in, nuts, fishmeals, live and just plug away.

I'm sure you will catch them. Patience

Thanks, yeah not looking for excuses, maybe just taking a bit longer to remember how to fish than I thought!!

Will give some nuts a go on one rod and keep trickling the LS in on the other

In reply to Post #6

In reply to Post #1
look at mad baits range, significantly cheaper than moores and significantly higher quality.

Tigernuts are a very good winter bait, Especially when revealing some of the creamy flesh it adds visual appeal.

Lastly utilising a low oil carp pellet and saturating it with liquids is a fantastic winter edge. liquid liver, sweetcorn juice, hemp water, yeast extract, the world is your oyster but I'd steer clear of oils personally.

As for fishmeals being avoided, in the old days of high fat baits yes, but nowadays modern fishmeals are actually more suited in a balanced bait that their nutty counterparts which are usually higher in fat!


its not a "carpy" technique but utilising a nice big bag of liquidised white bread is a fantastic tactic on some venues, you can add goodies to it but less is more generally.

In reply to Post #1
Dna baits s7 and the bug 👍🏼

Couple of pints of hemp, a tin of corn and a tiger or Brazil nut on the hair.Always worth trying a bit of pepperami.

In reply to Post #8
Really useful advice about fishmeals in there thanks

In reply to Post #1
try live system good all year round bait

In reply to Post #8
Quality and mad baits don't belong in the same sentence. You have it right about being cheap and it's cheap for a reason.

Ive been using Live system for a while and done ok with it, my current water it just isn't working at all so looking at a change. I am sure its not the bait but it maybe that its just not suited to my water........ I am no bait expert though but trying to learn.

In reply to Post #1
Tails Up OCM a good all year round red fishmeal or their proseed bait in my opinion would be a good bet

In reply to Post #13
I've literally just seen this comment. You have a real problem with the brand. Wouldn't matter if it was me or anyone else recommending them, and yet you know nothing of what goes into baits these days. Shame.


I stand by my recommendation as it's all been formulated with year round use in mind

In reply to Post #16
No he's talking the truth as does everyone else commenting on mad baits. It's utter rubbish.

In reply to Post #17
I'm bored of you now

In reply to Post #18
And we are all bored of you and your patronising drivel

In reply to Post #19
I'm very confused by it all . Is Mozzy Mad baits in disguise?. If not seems very odd he'd push it so much if he's another bait company.

In reply to Post #20
If I was involved with Mad baits I'd be on like a shot putting him back in his box, he's not doing them or his own company any favours posting on here.

Regarding a winter bait, I like to use a fishmeal year round. If the carp are eating animal/insect proteins naturally all year in shrimp, fry, snails etc it doesn't make sense to me to completely drop this from a bait and use vegetable proteins when it's cold.

ABS MGM was a fishmeal designed for the winter. Many other companies do a ‘winter' version of their fishmeal baits.

In reply to Post #20
I know right. Strange to be recommending other companies gear and then refusing to name his own company when asked . (It's spectrum baits btw).

In reply to Post #20
No, I'm nothing to do with Mad. But I know their quality as I've seen friends fish with it, and I know who they roll for

Im not going to not defend someone if I know theyre wares are decent. simples. some people just offended because there results go against the grain of thousands of anglers who purchase from them lol

As for not doing companies favours, neither I, nor Mad, need custom from this website hence Ive repeatedly declined to name my company if you look.

I just say it how it is and this forum has always been the same, a select few who push a certain prerogative and then when people with actual experience of the industry chip in a different opinion its arguments. I've only ever responded to peoples replies to me.

In reply to Post #22
How is it strange? I refuse to name my own company because I do not pay to promote myself on here. Plus, I do not need to promote, Ive been fine for business and not even needed to use facebook or instagram business models which says something.

Its not strange if you have a sense of fairness.

In reply to Post #24
It's strange because nobody has asked you about anything other than what your company is called. Plenty of companies are named on here by people involved with them, and yet as far as I'm aware the only one which sponsors the forum is haiths. And then you are constantly pushing mads gear . It would be like ken Townley coming on here and pushing hinders particles instead of haiths. Weird.

In reply to Post #25
Others are actually doing deals to be able to freely mention and promote their wares. not my business to name names.

Those who have asked via PM I have responded with company name.

IF ken have a financial stake in haiths and promoted them without giving fair compensation towards the forum owner I would think that very wrong. however I dont believe Ken is in receipt of royalties nor is it my business in the slightest.

bit of a difference.

In reply to Post #26
Oh ffs. The ken mention was about your promoting mad baits. A competitor. A rival firm. You know, someone who does the same thing as you? Someone who potentially takes a customer from you? He wouldn't be on here saying "buy hinders particles " when he's sponsored by haiths now would be? That's really not good business sense at all is it?!

So your saying that mark and Gav have deals to promote their bits on here? Because they are the only 2 that do ,and Tbh I don't think either really needs to as the forum does that for them because they both make very good quality gear and therefore get plenty of good reviews on here from users. Cant say that for madbaits can you?! You are literally the only one singing their praises

In reply to Post #23
You have not mentioned your name, but you have mentioned that your in the bait business and your company is not hard to find. It will get your brand looked into, I even looked at your website for a couple of seconds literally. Possibly trying to pull off what a certain pop up pusher came on here trying to do. Get stuck in with the arguments, change user name and now have a bit of a kiss arse following. You'll have to dish out freebies though.

In reply to Post #28
I have zero need for orders from this site lol.



IP100 it is not weird to have morals. One of those two had a promotion deal and I won't smudge it.

I don't, as I say, look to this site for orders. I reccomend what I know through experience to be good quality wares. It's really simple.

In reply to Post #29
Also I e recommend others apart from them also. I just won't be told I'm wrong by people who know less about bait than I do, about what's actually in them.

In reply to Post #29
You are quite special.... And if you are hanging on about madbaits being great and slating people like Geoff bowers and Moore's baits then that says all we need to know about your own bait knowledge

In reply to Post #31
Moore's?

It says nothing about my knowledge that it doesn't conform to a forums.

Milk proteins and nut proteins make a better nut bait than white crumb and semo. It's just facts.

In reply to Post #32
Yes. Cc Moore. You slated live system on another thread

In reply to Post #33
Which thread I've forgotten?

In reply to Post #34
I can't remember ,but you said mad gear was far better. Which is nonsense

In reply to Post #35
Well, considering a friend used to roll the ccmoore gear and didn't think particularly highly of it, I'd guess so.

You seem to try and find a comment to argue with with a lot of people on a lo of threads. I noticed it when I used to read em.

Terrifyingly I agrred with about 50% ( on the affinitiys and vans )

In reply to Post #36
Not at all, but I don't suffer bull**** !

In reply to Post #37
If the person you assume to be talking bull, has a greater knowledge of the subject than yourself, surely that can't be the case? or for you to discern?

In reply to Post #38
are we going to have lock or move yet another bait thread cause you lot cant seem to be civil towards each other

In reply to Post #38
Why do you have greater knowledge exactly? Because you own a bait company? Because anyone can have a bait company! Doesn't mean a thing

In reply to Post #40
take it you didnt read my last post????

In reply to Post #40
Because I've sucessful had a company despite virtually zero social media presence, all my custom is repeat custom, the fact you can't tell a good bait from your elbow...

Feel free Joss, seems if I comment he or one other bloke chose to pick it up for discussion

In reply to Post #42
it does seem quite sad that bait threads seem to always turn into silly stabs. no moderator wishes to spend time deleting not moving threads that people find interesting, but there seems to be a bit of a pattern on here of late.

happy xmas

In reply to Post #43
Apologies Joss, he's just so bloody patronising. Telling numerous people they are wrong about a company they've dealt with first hand. They guy obviously has some link with them, wether it's business or just his mate. Either way it's civil enough,surely?
Like that snide comment about not knowing a good bait from my elbow. Over 30 years rolling bait I'd say I've got a reasonable idea of what decent and what ain't. And from this and other threads others agree on my stance with mad, nobody has agreed with Mozzi, and yet I'm the one with no clue? It's bloody laughable

hardly any bad words said just 2 having a dispute.
surely not enough to warrant locking or deleting the thread.

In reply to Post #44
its just fishing bait...nowt to get wound up about..

we all have our opinions regarding bait, i have mine, and i keep it that way.

not fussed about what others do.

In reply to Post #45
then dispute via PM, it gets boring and cloggs threads up

In reply to Post #47
Where do they get moved to out of interest?

In reply to Post #48
Generally the mod area to spend hours tidying peoples rubbish up

In reply to Post #44
I think where you're getting confused is my issue is with how it's a cheap filler mix. It catches fish, but anyone who has a fundamentally basic knowledge of ingredients can't tell you what dominates which baits. Considering I know what goes into a bait that you've referred to as cheap rubbish to me, on the basis of that finding, shows your knowledge of bait must be skewed.

Again the 30 years comment is subjective, same as with bowers. You cannot sit there and tell me that how long someone's done something is indicative of good / knowledgable they are. What if they've been taught wrong?

And I'm sorry but you'll find I have absolutely no connection to mad baits, you're welcome to come over and peruse my transactions lol. But when you take time out from just rolling random recipes and really focus and study on what ingredients do what it teaches you a hell of a lot. I've sacrificed thousands and thousands of pounds worth of ingredients this way and studied literally as if I was doing an academically course and had some fantastic conversations with leaders in their respective fields regarding fish foods, aquaculture, biochemistry etc, just today I've spent two hours sorting out a couple of esters that smell like plum for a friend, even JB doesn't make his own esters. It's all down to the effort you put in, which for me as been a hell of a lot. So when I speak to aquaintances in the trade, who know full well I'm not buying their wares, people tend to speak frankly. And with some people, it's them asking me to design / troubleshoot recipes theyre already selling etc ( bit cheeky ) and some it's genuinely interesting conversations with people who have put a lot of work into their knowledge and skill sets. Mad fall firmly into the latter. I have no emotional / loyalty based connection to them at all and if I thought their bait was crap I'd tell them and not argue it on here. I value my integrity.

Many thanks.

In reply to Post #48
You've a pm sir

In reply to Post #50
I give up, I'm bored of being patronised. What I will say to you is this though. The lad I said about having 3 mad baits that he couldn't buy a bite on but his usual bait continues to give consistent results. I roll that bait.

In reply to Post #52
Well done you. I'm sure the thousands of repeat customers they have are wrong. You've clearly got an issue with them lol

In reply to Post #53
I don't at all, dont know them from Adam. Just seen the gear and heard an awful lot about them (being as they are literally 5-10 minutes up the road from me). But if they are so knowledgeable about bait and yet I don't know a good bait from my elbow then my lads success is a bit of a mystery

Surely bait is subjective anyway ? You can catch on semo and soya mix. You can catch on a bait that contains 20 Ingrediants.

99% of the time it's the angler who's responsible for his/her catch rate. How many times have a lesser qualify bait like a nash instant range done well.

It's about being confident in what you do and how you fish.

Regardless of who thinks they no more your expressing this opinion on your own success and confidence.

In reply to Post #1
I just read over 50 comments, so it's between Tigers an unknown company and Mad Baits for best winter bait?

Which Mad Bait do you recommend?

In reply to Post #56

In reply to Post #56


Tigers it is then

In reply to Post #1
Sweetcorn, in the tin, one tin per rod nothing else, natures answer to catching fish.

In reply to Post #1
A.B.S. either Hydra K if you have a freezer or M.G.M. or 5th Element if you need short term shelf life. Edit just don't use much fishmeal in winter. I've found the fish in my club lakes are so used to fishmeals they don't respond so well to nut baits. If you leave a Tiger nut out long enough you will get a pick up. How long have you got?

In reply to Post #53
Nick Mesquitta!!!!

I remember you, cant remember if it was here or Cemex but you were a right punisher a few years back, so called billy big ******** at Nash but they'd never heard of you, liked to write your own BS!!

Didn't Nash issue a statement saying you were a Walter Mitty?

You must be 17 or 18 about now?

In reply to Post #61
I've had nothing to do with Nash for about 15 years was on there junior consultants team aged 12 / 13.

A guy came up to us at monks lake in kent and asked if a particular fish was foreign, Given that I knew the fish , the owner, and had caught it previously I confirmed it but none the less congratulated the captor. he then complained to Kevin lol

But yeah your entire post is ********

In reply to Post #62
My entire post is bob on, you did BS about being a Nash consultant, you did punish and you got rinsed by the grown up's every week on Cemex then you went MIA.

Some things never change (see 2nd paragraph)

In reply to Post #63
So getting gear for free and representing a brand, and literally having a piece of paper saying "junior consultant" somehow doesn't qualify haha?

Rinsed on cemex? no mate. you're delusional. I left that forum for private reasons. left fishing in general for a couple of years.

In reply to Post #64
Fair play, you're a living breathing example of all that's wrong with carp fishing, junior consultant my arse and nothing is for free, even Premier League clubs have rules about screwing over kids.
You didn't represent a brand!!!!!!

PS: you were getting Nash gear for free, the nasty *******s.

Being Kev's rent boy isn't big or clever


Anyway you're apparently a bait baron these day's

In reply to Post #65
And you're a troll who's too scared to put their real name on the internet lol.

Alright, all thats wrong with carp fishing with no idea what I've put back into it.

Also don't make insinuations about child abuse thats one thing I won't tolerate.

In reply to Post #66
Pretty WOKE aren't you? All these years later and you're still getting triggered

Which words upset your warped mind???

In reply to Post #67
Woke? because I responded to a troll?

You're a little man with nothing better to do.

In reply to Post #68
Definitely not little , need to lose a stone after Xmas.

Cant be a troll (always the weakest rebuttal) called you out chap based on my exceedingly good memory, even now years later you're still pissing off the punters years later

In reply to Post #69
Absolutely a troll and it's the only word for it. you've not put your real name.

Your memory is flawed and not evidential, but it's nice to know someone, even if their memory was correct, would base their opinion of someone on the 13 year old of the past.

I don't rely on here for custom, as Ive said previously and Im very happy with how things are going for me, you're trying to get reactions at 3am.

In reply to Post #70
Memory definitely ok, you got Blackballed off Carpy too, that took some doing, just ask Pooter or the Bungay Massive.

Dont worry about me, only need 4 hours a night

In reply to Post #71
I have absolutely no idea what you're going on about now. just wind it in.

In reply to Post #72
How's the Semolina sales going?

I did laugh at you're reference about the M23 being up North

Anyway Nick sweetcorn will see you through the colder month's, liquidized or straight out of the tin, cheap easy and a proven winner

In reply to Post #73
So again ,read my facebook page but not giving ones real name, big man you are.

The m23 is as far as I'll go to meet people for drop offs, its a feeder road to the m25, its totally reasonable. I never once claimed the road itself was up north.

As for semolina, again, you've no idea whats in my baits and haven't tried them.

You've continued to insinuate child abuse over PM as well.

This seems fairly pointless.

In reply to Post #74
I'm not sure Kevin Nash having you climbing a few chimneys to shift a few hooks is child abuse? Ring Ester and ask?

If I PM you my address will you send me some samples?

Thanks for the geographical clarification, I'll bin the sat-nav

In reply to Post #75
I send out samples but can't help but feel you've no intention of using them.

In reply to Post #76
Why wouldn't I? Fishmeal? Didn't even look at the prices TBH.

**** me these slanging matches are getting boring now

In reply to Post #78
Totally agree. But it's absolutely clear this 'Alby' fella has only come on here to dig out Nick and provoke him.

For the record I've dealt with Nick for about 5/6 years and he has been nothing but good to me. His bait knowledge and honestly regarding his own baits and what is in them is refreshing. When I was looking for a new fishmeal bait back around 2016 he supplied me some of his SDS after a lot of conversation around the formulation and ingredients. Nick even offered all of my money back if I wasn't 100% satisfied, which I'd say speaks volumes.

Nick may be young (in bait making terms) to many, but he knows his stuff for sure. If people took the time to speak to him about his own bait they would see that.

In reply to Post #79
Certainly seems to have an axe to Grind

In reply to Post #78
AMEN

In reply to Post #79
Thanks for the kind words. He was enquiring about the bait via PM in the end and just told him to message the Facebook page if interested, he gave up then

In reply to Post #1
I'd be more inclined to concentrate on the way you approach winter fishing rather than worry about bait specifically. Keep mobile, keep dry/warm and figure out where the fish will actually want to feed. If Krill is the staple food then stick with that 👍

In reply to Post #1
A bit of black foam is my go to winter bait these days.

In reply to Post #82
I'll stick to the B5

In reply to Post #85
It wouldn't of mattered what I had said to you. It was part of your trolling. My fishmeal is superior in my opinion, because it was formulated many years after b5 with better ingredients available. Mike may have updated his recipe but it's one of the few I haven't seen and cannot tell. However I stand by my wares as if I didn't then selling them would lack a serious amount of integrity or respect for the customer

In reply to Post #85
B5 and Hydra K mixed for me .

In reply to Post #86
all these years later you're still at it, yeah your bait is better than B5

You just cant help yourself when you open your mouth can you.

In reply to Post #88
Well a dinner made with better ingredients has the potential to be, I've said in my opinion.

Let's put it this way if I didn't believe my bait was the best version of its class it would be pointless putting my faith in it for my living wouldn't it?

You absolutely cannot comment as to whether or not it's better as you haven't seen it, fished with it etc

It's absolutely not a verdict on mikes bait, it's my own belief in mine.

I've had several forum members tell me not to bother with you, think I'll take their advice.

In reply to Post #89
And I've had a couple who said they remembered you on Cemex

In reply to Post #84
Agree

In reply to Post #90
Again, referencing me as a child is hardly fair is it? Nice one trying to avoid the very factual point I made.

Stop ruining all the threads.

In reply to Post #84
Black foam isn't a bait though

In reply to Post #94
That depends on the definition of a bait / lure really, its not "food" though

In reply to Post #94
I think you're splitting hairs a bit there

In reply to Post #96
Where did it all go wrong

In reply to Post #1
Nearly 100 posts and no one has suggested maggots? (Apologies if I missed someone doing so).

I haven't really done much fishing in then last few years but in the winter I would have maggots, Trent SSB Pro and Specialized hookbaits in my armoury, the same as any other time of year to be honest.

In reply to Post #99
I think it was generally a question of tigers and if his boilies were any cop.

Maggots can be great but just like the revival in popularity of casters, they are venue and situation dependant and. certainly not a take anywhere bait. One of the lakes I fish you'd be lucky for the hookbait to reach the bottom lol

In reply to Post #99
*Nearly 100 posts and no one has suggested maggots? (Apologies if I missed someone doing so).*

they clearly havn't been lisnting to mr penning have they lol!

Thanks for all the input, some really cool advice in places 👍

In reply to Post #1
TnM for me, ive used this Spring, Summer, Autumn and winter with total confidence for many years now