Another iconic carp killed, what a terrible shame.

In reply to Post #1
That's very sad if true

****-where did you hear that?
Poor fish had already survived an Otter attack a couple of years back.
Very sad news

In reply to Post #3
The fishery manager himself, its on hes fb page.

In reply to Post #4
Its bloody awful and really feel for Gordy and the lads on what is a fantastic complex. I believe the ‘Slate Grey' was a victim a couple of months ago too.

In reply to Post #5
I can only assume the lake can't be fenced otherwise it would have been done.

In reply to Post #7
You can say that again

In reply to Post #6
Would be hard to fence. Sad news, but that complex still has plenty to offer. Otters are slowly knack Erin get up our sport though.

In reply to Post #9
That's a shame but like said cracking place and still plenty of goodens to go at

When a predator targets private stock be that fish or livestock the offending perpetrator should be destroyed as sure if a dog attacking farm stock could be took out by a annoyed farmers shotgun. Locations that genuinely can't be fenced should be able to hold licenses allowing special permissions to deal with any threats to their environment without fear of the legal consequences.

In reply to Post #11
Wrong or right, my thoughts too

Said it for a long time, I could see it coming before this, the only things that will be left are syndicates that are fenced in, club waters, old fish, survivors etc will become a thing of the past

Should be able to apply for a license to shoot them for me. It goes to show following their release they are not exactly going to be extinct, they are survivors. An apex predator in our fresh water systems

In reply to Post #11
there is a major floor in that though

Farmers rights cannot apply

Sheep arent on the protected species list

Waters such that cant be fenced for whatever reason, what you going to do? shot an otter once the fish have been killed...a bit late by then, add to that, shoot it another will replace it

In reply to Post #13
I already know of this ongoing senerio, and that is exactly what happens, a month/6 months/a year....and look who's back!

In reply to Post #14
exactly.

so unless your going to have armed guards, its pointless

In reply to Post #15
The more widespread they become, the more that Unfenced waters will become just that, history

In reply to Post #15
You seem to be the man on the subject Joss

I would have thought there were enough full timers, bailiffs on some waters to watch them all the time? gun in tent, job done

Probably a daft question, out of interest, how effective are traps, how long would it take to trap one, days weeks, months, never?

For me they need to be dealt with asap

In reply to Post #17
wouldn't say i'm the man, i just have the fortunate or "unfortunate" task of spending far too many years dealing with them

Traps are a last resort really mate, and they aren't easy to trap at all, it can take days and or weeks or never at all.

Site and complexities all come into play mate

i have however been working on a new way of getting them out!! Its proved successful, doesn't require a licensed to do so, nor will it cost much, nor will you have to do much but monitor!

Im not revealing it as yet, but will be soon, its a game changer for fenced fisheries.

Back in the day ,when they first appeared down here,many a water tried those big cage traps,I think around 12 waters at that time,if I remember, not one lutra was captured..

Another method ,employed,did however work..

I have upgraded my defences, because in the now drying boggy are of my place,was clear tracking signs of lutra,footprints,ie I arrived 6pm,no prints in boggy area..

7pm,went to car,to get some steak to grill,fresh prints then,so they are about,no significant, signs in any spraint stones,or not subtle signs,that most would not notice. .

But like I said,they are about..

Everything inside the fence,thrives, outside...not so good..not seen any brookies for a while,only minnows in the river..

I spend more time on that fence,than fishing it now,its totally worth it though..

No fence,no fish,no future..!

In reply to Post #18
I was thinking that they wouldn't be easy to catch unless they have a defined route, I guess they can pop up anywhere, especially on larger waters

Sure people can apply for a license to shoot cormorants, hope they include these soon

In reply to Post #13
I'm aware on the point of sheep being not protected and was just making a point. In answer to your question... damn right it would still be shot even after already slaughtering carp as it can't repeat the same devastation I see it as proactive as just because the killing has already happened is a non sensicle argument in not responding to it, by that logic the man eating lion gets a free pass then and why not the serial killer maybe no point in locking him up, a bit silly I know but all possible means should be available or it's all over. When these creatures regardless of any unfit status barriers cause devastation they forfeit any protection afforded by it. Problem is people fear giving voice to what's obviously required because the cuddle a predator freaks may get upset and make use of over zealous and unrealistic protection laws l

It's the sheer rate that they breed that makes anything other than a fence a futile gesture, I've seen more Otters or signs of Otters than I have of Rabbits the past couple of years.

A mate of mine works for the Highways Agency they are sick to the teeth of being called out to a reported “Dead dog on Highway” To turn up to find it's another bloody Otter, and most of them are Micro Chipped when scanned with a Halo (Explain that one)

I called at a village Chippy at dinner time the other week, only a very short walk from a 12 acre lake in the middle of the village, sat on a bench eating my dinner – loads of Ducks, Coots, Moor Hens and a few Seagulls flocked over to me for food, I counted seven that had one of their legs missing below the joint!

I was shown a video taken in the middle of a housing estate in Leyland, nowhere near any stream or river – an Otter raiding his Koi Pond, and it kept coming back every night until it had killed and eat the lot! All caught on Camera.

I don't think people are realising just how many there are, especially here in Lancashire.

In reply to Post #22
But we keep getting told nature will balance itself out, not seekng much sign of that at the moment

Devils advocate here....

If your stock is that valuable, get a fence up and protect it. If the law prohibits shooting them, then I'm sorry but that's that.

And otters don't 'target' private fisheries... they're animals who like to eat fish ffs.
And... Yes - the leap from otter to man eating lion to serial killer is silly.

To be honest I'm surprised they don't get more support. The original inhabitants dealing with the foreign invaders...? I bet Farage and co bloody love them! (Cynical / sarcastic smiley needed)

In reply to Post #24
Obviously you are probably aware not all lakes are in a position to have an otter fence put up, I know a lake which is absolutely desperate to put up a fence, but the land owner wont have it.

In reply to Post #20
Makes me laugh, you can shoot a pet dog for killing a sheep which is worth a few quid. Yet an Otter killing multiple very costly carp is sacred.
Also compare how long it takes to replace a sheep compared to a 30lb plus carp.

In reply to Post #18
Like said it's a shame. Predators and prey is as old as life itself and will always be so. Some of the post's in this thread are a joke. Hope what you have in mind works mate. Good luck

In reply to Post #26
A sheep only costs a few quid? Have you any idea of the running costs, margins and effort that goes into even a modest flock? Clearly not. That is probably one of the most ridiculous comments that I have ever read since the otter debate kicked off fifteen years ago.

I fish St Ives every week, I grew up fishing the Upper Ouse for barbel, I was on the Adam's Mill syndicate before it got devestated, the Ivel was a regular venue of mine and it got wiped out over night. It's heartbreaking, but comparing carp which are bred for anglers to haul out of the water for fun, to creatures which are livelihoods for the people putting your food on your plate is almost laughable if it wasn't so sad.

Fences are the only way to protect fisheries. A huge amount of them are impossible to fence... St Ives being one of them, even if the landowner would permit it.

In reply to Post #28
👍

This was inevitable so no surprise, as has been said otters are breeding so how long until all unfenced waters are decimated? Then all the ground nesting birds. Will the river salmon and trout anglers sit on their hands while the rivers are decimated.

In reply to Post #28
My point being the farmer is allowed to protect his livelihood, a fishery owner should be allowed to do the same. Didn't mean to ruffle any feathers.

In reply to Post #23
That wont happen for hundreds of yrs though

In reply to Post #27
it works mate, and very well.

I will put it out there very soon.

Every fenced fishery should have this installed, cheap, easy, legal and it works.

In reply to Post #32
Think it will happen a lot quicker than that Joss, let's face it the food supply the Otters are thriving on is dwindling as fast as they are breeding , more and more still waters become protected, less and less River fish, plus the bird life is being truly annihilated.

Six large local Reservoirs I often walk the Dog around always had numerous pairs of Grebes on them all; I've not seen a Grebe since 2012 on any of them!

In reply to Post #34
If you can't fence a water then surely the only long term answer is to remove all the fish and put them somewhere that is fenced. A far from ideal solution but needs must when the devil sends in otters.

In reply to Post #17
i check mine daily
had 2 in 12 months

In reply to Post #36
Nice one mate

Out of interest. Are you still getting problems, more to catch, do you feel the traps have got control of the situation?

I guess they will need to be a permanent thing from now on but at least you have some protection in place.

This is why I was wondering If shooting them would be a more instant thing, see one, shoot it within a week for example

In reply to Post #36
As in otter traps??

In reply to Post #33
Will look forward to hearing about this Joss.

We fenced one of our syndicates a few years ago now and I have just spent the winter from the end of November most weekends helping a very good mate sort his lake out albeit a far bigger job than just fencing we have had weeks worth of weekends preparing the ground, tree removal, drain down, stock temporarily re homed and sorted thinned out, constant pumping to keep the water level as low as possible so the silt has partly dried out so the machines are not trying to dig a watery substrate then the big machinery in for a de-silt thousands of tonnes removed lake was dug mid 1700's and in recent history ie- the last 70 years to anyone's knowledge it's never been de-silted.
In places 8 to 10 feet of silt has been removed with an average of 3 to 4 feet most areas of the lake, fence has gone up, electric brought down from the farm for a secondary electric double strand around it then sorting the inflow and outflow to get that as secure as we can that was costly, built a new car park we have still got to re-landscape the scarring left by the machinery all new gravel paths going in, new aeration system bought, swims re-instated, a lot of time and effort and money has gone into it but if there is also any other way we could protect further as in your idea it will be implemented.

In reply to Post #36
If you are referring to trapping and have caught 2 otters, do yourself a huge favour, don't post it anywhere! people are watching.

In reply to Post #39
well done mate, fencing is real graft, but also very rewarding

In reply to Post #41
I see the latest petition made the national press

In reply to Post #42
No chance of being successful though, be many years before there's a remote chance of any action, or measures to control.

In reply to Post #43
Very true, nice to see the issue being bought to the attention of the general public.

I first saw otters on Shallow about ten years ago and frankly never understood the apathy being displayed with regard to dealing with them - why they weren't rubbed out by someone with a FAC and a high power air rifle I don't know. I can think of at least two waters I have been on where a (cough) a more direct course of action has had the desired effect. Using something kicking out say around 44 ftlb, a headshot will be a guaranteed kill. I'm only speculating of course

In reply to Post #45
Delete this.

In reply to Post #45
Because it's illegal

In reply to Post #45
Wonder if the guy who used to own Lyons Gate has served his sentence yet? There are no words to describe the level of idiocy in someone shooting an otter and doubly so in using an air rifle to attempt it.

In reply to Post #48
+1.There aren't too many words to describe the level of idiocy of someone suggesting such a thing on on an open forum either......

Few interesting reply's. I can see why people would want to shoot them, I'm all for it, let's have the licences now please

It's not the strongest of the species that survive, it's the ones most adaptable to change

That's C. Darwin and there is a lot of truth in it for me. But when people are tampering with nature it gets out of hand, and it is ffs

Out of hand as in otters released and breeding like rats with no thought what so ever on fish stocks and a lakes history. All these do ****ing gooders cannot see under water can they ffs. Just like all these ***** carp that's fenced in. I have an idea, thrown some otters over these fences, total artificial environment and controlled

Control is EVERYTHING for me and the environment agency, emphasis on environment should be collecting the data and managing all of this for me.

In reply to Post #45
Quite agree Halfcentury!
What a silly comment 🤦‍♂️
You'd do additional time in prison being a FAC holder, never own another firearm in your lifetime either and rightfully so!
You stand every chance of wounding with a fac air rifle at 44ft lb of muzzle energy to.
The only thing you're going to achieve is bolster the general public and anti's into thinking we're a bunch of blood thirsty morons that like to kill native species for the betterment of an non indigenous fish.

In reply to Post #51
Interesting take that mate on the indigenous species

Something has to give, things have gone mad and we are at extremes for me

Carpfishing as we once knew it, to the latest stock pond full of overgrow fish, and overstocked, where the owners are charging ridiculous amounts of money for people to fish for them, to the grinning fool with no scruples who will do anything for their 5 minutes of fame

Fact, carp die and we need to move on, level headed and realistic stocking polices with the future of this magnificent pastime in mind, no the next greedy ****s £s

Otters have gone for a reason, careful reintroduction and management could set their future once and for all

As usual, add stupidness, human intervention, and the chance of a few quid and once again we are ****ed

In reply to Post #50
But isn't pretty much every lake's history that it's been filled with an alien species for sport?
Carp (and catfish) anglers in general have very little right to comment on nature IMO.
If folk want to mistreat animals that shouldn't be here then they should put measures in place to protect their assets

In reply to Post #53
they should put measures in place to protect their assets

They have, fences

Emphasis on ”assets”

In reply to Post #54
That's what I mean mate. If you can't put a fence up for whatever reason, well it's tough titty really and playing games with nature for financial gain has come back to haunt them.

I think I have come to the point recently where I think it is time for a moratorium on the stocking of carp until a sensible licensing system can be developed.
The principle aim of said licence would be to protect our increasingly threatened aquatic flora and fauna from the destructive results of overstocking with stew bred carp, or any carp for that matter.
People want to dig, overstock, feed and exploit carp for business purposes OK, but protecting their stock must be funded from their business. The protection must be passive and not involve lethal measures.
In my area another unique little gem has been lost to syndicated carping. 3 almost undisturbed tiny ponds where I used to take my grandchildren to see frogs, newts, toads and grass snakes as well as numerous species of large dragonflies and occasionally rarer birds like hobbies has been acquired and stocked and access made members only. Any significant stocking of sizable carp into tiny waters like that will have a massive detrimental effect. Time to stop and think.

In reply to Post #56


A kind of fit and proper owner test related to preservation of the natural habitat and environment as part of it.

In reply to Post #55
It's the clubs and original or long standing un protected waters that are getting hit the worst for me, not someone who has invested in a load of oversized carp and then thrown a fence around them for £25 for 24 hours. If these places got wiped off the face of the earth today I could not give a flying ****, the only person who would be in tears would be the business man who has lost his income, they are not real, artificial, grown, could be replaced in 12 months, is this what we want from carpfishing when this is all that is left, pay and play £

We have a chance of losing everything that once was, and is, for the now, £

In reply to Post #58
predators are only as successful as the available food

over stocked waters have just added to the success of the otter

In reply to Post #58
As frenzy said mate, the waters that cater for people unable to fish ‘proper' waters (day tickets), and the ‘proper' anglers who just ‘want a bend in the rod' because the ‘proper' water is dead... have paved a path for otters to spread, so carp angling itself is partially to blame for the decimated carp stock and otter success. Sadly
There will never be a natural balance the whole time a) we restock fish into waterways and b) otters aren't given a realistic habitat to call their own that hasn't got a fence around it. Because putting up these fences in a nation of artificially stocked larders is just papering cracks and pushing them along towards the waters we apparently don't want predated.
The whole time you increase the prey population, predators need controlling. So it's either cull otters, which ain't happening. Fish without knowing if there is anything left.. or pay to fish behind a fence that somebody put an investment into and hope for something else to starve to death
Tell me something you don't pay for these days. Took my son to a kids farm, paid to get in, then I had to BUY the food to feed their ****ing animals (should be their expense and job supported by me paying to smell **** for an hour) who just eat it, let you take a photo and **** off to the next mug. I thought man, this is carp fishing with goats and chickens

In reply to Post #60
perfectly worded

In reply to Post #59
Don't forget It was Anglers who lobbied in the 60's and 70's to clean up the Rivers, and a hell of a good job was done- unfortunately it also provided a perfect food source for un-controlled numbers of cage breed predators to take advantage off once released into the wild.

All of the still waters I fish are ex-industrial - if it was not for anglers re-purposing them and giving them value to the owner ALL would have been filled in- it's as simple as that! Problem is in winter they provide the perfect “MacDonald's or Greggs” for the Otter's, easy semi-dormant prey very easy to kill, in most cases killed for the fun of it. The quicker all viable stillwaters get fenced the better, until then they are going to breed out of control causing untold damage to wildlife and fish stock.


On my local River: at first mainly Salmon were found on the backings, a few inches of flesh eaten then left to be scavenged by Mink, Rat's, Crows, Magpies etc... Now you don't see any because there is hardly any left, next target was the Pike especially in winter when slow – there now is no decent Pike left (Big females critical to natural re-population wiped out) only the odd jack is left. At present it's the Barbel turn; the big mature specimens that are critical to keep a healthy natural population are getting massacred, when the Barbel numbers are so low to not warrant wasting energy on, it will be the Chub's turns next.......

In Scotland you don't have large coarse fish populations providing an all year round food source, hence the Otter population is kept in check naturally.

In reply to Post #59
I wouldn't call St Ives over stocked

In reply to Post #63
Tell me about it.

Take Ferry Lagoon, maybe 100 to 150 fish in there and they're getting hammered. Plenty of corpses in.the out of bounds from what I'm hearing. Ferry is peanuts to fish compared to other places about, so not an over priced hole in the ground full of monster carp.

The only time things will change is when the posh salmon runs get smashed where wealthy and the influential will actually start turning the tide on these overgrown rats, until then, it's just a case of watching historic places get rinsed.

Personally I feel for the barbel anglers, moreover guys fishing rivers that have seen once magical places get decimated, consequently those guys that have lost their fishing no doubt will become carp anglers fishing fenced off places and the effect that has is syndicates will charge as much as they wish. It's all a horrible place to be.

I won't shed a tear if I see a dead otter.wahed up, that's for sure.

In reply to Post #62
I don't necessarily disagree with you but youmake some very assertive, breathtakingly sweeping statements.
Some( a few) anglers did contribute to the wider environmental movement to clean up our waterways and there have been some notable successes. Between 1955 and 1971 I lived literally on the banks of the Mersey when it was an utterly lifeless, reeking purple sewer, like its tributary the Irwell. From the 70,s onwards the river, like the Thames and the Tyne has improved steadily. The destruction of manufacturing and heavy industries has been a bonus. These rivers are still far from clean and only support a tiny fraction of the hugely biodiverse and prolific ecosystems a major river system should
I now live in the South West and the same problem exists, rivers running over glacial gravels down from chalk downland through rural areas are not as they should be. Its May, they should be humming with life, plants, insects, fish and birds. They are not! They are deserts. The clear water is full of herbicides, insecticides, fungicides, dwarfing hormones, silage and slurry run off, untreated sewage releases and the huge amount and variety of household chemicals. These rivers are easily capable of supporting a healthy population of predators given a sporting chance.

The otters, cormorants, merganser are not the problem. We are.
You want to protect and improve the environment you start at the bottom. No good saving the whale if you empty the ocean of whale food, no good protecting big food fish if you emty the sea of food for big fish

Feed them and they will come.
Applies for pretty much anything.
Bit of a fuss being made about shad being reintroduced, what a waste of time

In reply to Post #66
I had exactly the same thought when I saw this in the press. More food for the otter. Unreal.

In reply to Post #63
totally agree, i think this has gone off on a tangent as the "over stocked" comments certainly are NOT what St Ives is

In reply to Post #65
It's changed dramatically here in North West since you left Lance, the rivers are pristine – in fact most support large natural stocks of Brown Trout, Grayling, Dace, Ruffe etc.... they are that clean (species that only thrive in very clean water)

Until recently I could take a 5 minute walk to a local River and catch Trout for fun. The same river in the late 70's stuck of cyanide from the ICI perplex plant next to it (Almonds smell) and often turned fluro green and blue from the discharge from the plant. When the Plant shut down the river soon recovered, but it's now being annihilated by Cormorants and Otters and will soon be devoid of life again.

In reply to Post #64
Totally agree. In my experience lightly stocked waters are hit the hardest due to the lack of anglers present. Colemere, hardest water in the country, maybe 5 to 10 fish in 90 odd acres of deep water and the bloody otters had most of them.

In reply to Post #60
Agree

That's why I mentioned the environment agency. I am a wildlife lover but there has to be a balance and whilst ever people are tampering with nature it will never balance out. There needs to be a place for otters and this needs to be controlled, you first start reading about them and the reality is, the spread and distribution is incredible. I have never know otters in any waters around me up until late but slowly and surely they are turning up. They have the potential to wipe out anything that is not fenced and fencing everything is not viable me, hence a license to shoot them for me.

If we had designated sanctuary areas and boundaries for our furry friends and anything outside was not allowed we have a chance

In reply to Post #70
These are the type of waters that concern me. What's the realistic chance of fencing them off, zero? hence this is why I think a license should be granted to shoot them just the same as we eventually got for the cormorants

If people still want to play around with traps that should be their choice

In reply to Post #71
If the sea eagles getting released up your way take a fancy to carp they'll breed like pigeons.
Indoor carping anyone?

In reply to Post #73
i would pay to see that

In reply to Post #74
easy to find videos of sea eagles taking big carp

Might be harder to find a vid of indoor carping

In reply to Post #69
It sounds an amazing transformation Keith. Ignoring the utterly lifeless Mersey, Irwell, Ship Canal, Blackbear and Woolston Cut, a couple of which have gone, I know, even the rivers like the Weaver, Dane and the Bollin supported very little life. The Bridgewater Canal provided some sport but had its problems.
To hear waters like this described as pristine even 50 years on is quite remarkable. The thought of otters thriving anywhere near where I grew up is utterly amazing.
Maybe as anglers we have to share it.

In reply to Post #70
Fen Drayton the same, 90+ acres, v low stock and its getting hit.

In reply to Post #77
75 acres mate. Yeah, and it's been getting done. They're coming out of the river, through Fen and then into the reserves.

In reply to Post #78
Perfect scenario for a gun permit

Question. How many other fish have been lost from this complex to confirmed otter predation in the last year? I can't find mention of problems on the website. Was this an old fish nearing the end of its life, weak, slow and vulnerable? All the fish we fish for are going to die one way or the other and "wild" creatures rarely die in bed surrounded by loving family. Perhaps if we develop a more realistic perspective, stop giving fish daft names and go fishing for fish, not anthropomorphic totems to stick on social media we can get rid of the hysteria.

In reply to Post #80
Don't know about St Ives and how many fish they've lost.

I can only hazard a guess and say that the big fish are slower moving which makes them easier targets for these rats.

It's all well and good saying they all things die, sure, we all know that, the difference being as the numbers increase of these things, the more fish that'll be lost, to the point there will be no fish left - obviously a long way off of that right now. Wonder how you'll react when you see one of your places fish with its face ripped off and guts all hanging out.

Speaking to anglers on the bank fishing places like Fen and Ferry, there is a lot of anger out there. A world away from idealists on the internet...

In reply to Post #81


Might as well just kill them all now

In reply to Post #80
Anthropomorphic totems to stick on social media? Guys have been naming big fish since the 50s. Its part of the very fabric of big carp angling.

In reply to Post #81
So, the question still remains. How many fish has the St Ives complex lost to confirmed otter predation in the last year. This is a popular, professionally run commercial fishery with competent full time bailiffs, so, how many?
Hazarding guesses, passing on gossip and fuelling rumours is not helpful.

In reply to Post #83
Certainly there have been some famous fish but I wouldn't describe the naming of fish as "part of the very fabric" of carp angling. A handful of large famous fish is one thing, every lake having a list of names, A teams, B teams and all the rest of the trivial sub culture that modern carping seems to encourage is to me a negative and devalues the "very fabric" of coarse angling.

In reply to Post #85
It is merely a continuation of the theme employed by those that started this whole game. We may not like it but lets face it, one generation creates the scene that the next take part in. Its very easy to blame the youth of today but they can't help when they were born.
Totally off topic, apologies.

In reply to Post #84
Why don't you phone Gordy up and ask him about the numbers? At least you'll get the info from the horse's mouth so to.spesk 👍

In reply to Post #87
3 this year. That's it. nothing as far as I know last season. Saw them but they aren't doing as much damage as you would think touch wood. not found or seen any victims on longreach and I'm here every week..

In reply to Post #88
Is that on the entire complex?

In reply to Post #89
Dunno it's a big place and only really been reach/meadow/shallow side. Don't hear of much being found and people talk

In reply to Post #87
I don't think I need to. The website and reports from a regular angler who is on site every week is enough. Five times that many fish on a site that big, over 2 years is nothing.

Predators rip the faces off their prey and spill their guts and eat them alive, its what they have been doing for hundreds of millions of years. Why should it bother me. I could kill, pluck, skin, draw and truss rabbits, hares, wildfowl and poultry by the time I was 10. I reckon I could still skin a rabbit in under a minute I've done that many.

Put a fox in a pen of lambs or a poultry house and it will cause carnage. Put an otter in a lake grossly overstocked with fat, slow, oversized and over fed carp and the same will happen.

It seems we want intensively farmed and managed commercial fisheries and syndicates so it is our responsibility to fence and protect them. This is not a wild environment.
Much of modern carp fishing lost its link to the natural environment decades ago, and carp fisheries are increasingly fished by similarly disconnected people. Sad but true

In reply to Post #91
So going by that logic, what if in the middle of the night, some goon decided to legally re-wild and release bears into your local woods, your wife or husband had their face ripped off, you cool with that, coz after all, it's the nature, and everything dies don't you know, ami right?

F..k otters. If I never see an alive one in England again, I'll be a happy chap. I've no problem with them living in the outer Hebrides munching muscles, kelp and whst-not, it's when they are in England eating fish down here, yeah, I've got a problem with that.

Let's take Fen Drayton for instance, other than what Gary has put in, it's reckoned to hold around 50 fish, of those 50 only 20 ever get caught. Lets say 2 get eaten a year, you do the maths. Ain't gonna take long until it will be one to check off the list. So what do you do? You end up fishing a muddy hole in the ground, paying rake loads for the privilege, everything that I'm sure you despise, meaning--> commercial fishery. It won't take that long until the small clubs that can fence their waters off to these f..king things will start jacking their prices up or just cash in after having the realisation that they can make a bucket load as a *syndicate* as there are so many people unable to fish places like Fen, coz like, what's the point - using Fen as an example, there are many cheap public access waters around the country - they end up with waiting lists as long as your arm.

I accept that everything is in a constant state of flux, change is inevitable, this otter business isn't a natural phenomena, quite the opposite, it's been forced on us and the wider public without any debate.

In reply to Post #92
Carp fishing is less natural than a British otter. Modern carp aren't native so have all been stocked at some point, or bred from stock. What is the point a stock fish becomes kosher?

In reply to Post #92
No point in trying to answer your first 2 paragraphs. Just childish, petulant rants. So let's go to para 3.

Fen Drayton, are you a member/permit holder? Do you fish it? I ask because you don't seem to know anything about it. I am not a member and have never set foot on the place, but I have taken the time to go to the Web site.Bernard Hunt and Gary Bayes are perfectly clear and honest about the fishery. Part of a large RSPB/nature reserve open to the public. Stock unknown but believed to be very low, possibly 100 fish, some lost and some gained in annual floods with some very big fish. Lots of good quality coarse species to record proportions. A low level of year on year stocking has (5 fish as I understand it) been agreed with the RSPB. No mention of otter predation.

In a big wild lakes like that predation will happen, its supposed to. More than 1 or 2 fish I should think. This is carp fishing as it should be and the carp had better be able to survive just like the roach, tench, bream and pike. Wish I could fish it but its too far away. And finally, its not otters that are unnatural its carp in modern carp fisheries that are unnatural. And no, I do not despise them, I just recognise them for what they are.
You will have to work hard for your fish on Fen Drayton. A handful a year, yes please.

In reply to Post #94
You'll get various different ideas of what's in Fen, ranging from anywhere between 50 to 100. Essentially 20 fish of what's in there turn up and get caught and that's it...the same old fish. Gary has put some of his fish in there that blokes don't count [Moids Jimbo?] plus 6 from the reserves.

Fish like the Zebra common never got caught and was massive, like massive!

Word has it that as of right now, Fen has the most fish in there that it ever has had compared to past year's.

As to where I'm fishing? Never you mind.

In reply to Post #95
Forgive me for shouting but if the stocks in Fen Drayton are healthier than they have ever been. WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU WITTERING ON ABOUT!!!.
I have learned there are a handful of OTTER, DANGER, DEATH, DESTRUCTION, end of the world otter obsessives on the forum who live in the same irrational world as Orange Donald.

In reply to Post #96
The thing about being healthier than ever came from Gary, due I guess to him putting a load of *his* fish in there not so long ago, how many are left is anyone's guess, could have a large proportion of them rocked up in the reserve behind Fen for what anyone knows or otter food, though his pasties do get caught. Keep your wig on, jeez.

I fish up their on a lake very close too meadow etc. We have found otter tracks coming from the river and up on to meadow. It/They have been seen numerous times and don't appear to be scared of humans at all which is quite concerning. Luckily we haven't found any corpses yet but all the anglers are concerned about what is left in the lakes. No one will know until we get some warmer weather and they spawn.

To my mind this is proper fishing with natural stocks and you know what you are signing up for. No built swims and a natural environment. I love it !!

I read through threads related to the Otter problem and I get the impression people seem to think it's just “Carp” that get massacred – it's not the case.
Once they find an easy, assessable food source they will exploit and kill that food source until it's not worth burning calories chasing down the few prey that remain.

I've witnessed a water get all their stock massacred in just a few weeks – Carp first, then the Pike, Bream, Tench, until just a few small Perch and Roach were left. How do I know- well it was drained down and netted by the EA.


I've got as cracking video I was sent just last week – showing 3-4 Otters marauding peoples gardens looking for Garden Ponds in the middle of a housing estate in the middle of Leyland!!! Trying to get past the Steel Weld Mesh cover over a Pond.

I have it on Whatapp,but I've no idea how to post it, as it does put things into perspective of how the modern Otter population is so oblivious to humans and dogs.

~ If anyone can post it , I pass it on.