Does anyone use Sacks anymore for rataining? Ive found an old Chub one in the shed. Wondered if anyone would want it or shall I just Bin it? Most places have banned them now havn't they?

In reply to Post #1
I prefer sacks as they let the fish decide where they want to be when resting... not all fish want to be on top. I do however have float attached for just in case, it can happen to anyone.

In reply to Post #1
Bin it. There is no need whatsoever to retain fish for more than a few minutes to get the camera etc ready, the technology nowadays means you can get great night shots. And a floating Retainer is the best thing for doing the job

Never been a fan of sacking, have seen a friend retain a prize fish from an hard water some 15 years ago.
Retained it over night in a sack ready for the next morning stills. Till this day he does not understand how it happened, but he could not find the carp or the sack.
The whole scenario still haunts him at times.
As I only do days, not found the need even for a flotation sling.

In reply to Post #3
I agree completely with this, like said there is no need at all to keep them now

Threw my old Nashy sack with the silver lining away twenty years ago ..

i dont use a retainer either,as i dont want one...im not desperate for a photo of a carp,i have enough..what i do photograph are mat or handheld pics of nice perch,and today i was lucky with a lovely 3lb.12oz and 3lb .8oz and seven others on chopped prrawns...good times...

In reply to Post #6
Can't stand them , used them when I was in my teens
I use a retainer sometimes just to give myself time to sort things out
Funny how on tv it's always just before dawn as an excuse
Also photographing fish has become a joke , both sides and front
Then put the vass waders on and get the shot in the water
Try doing that all while holding your breath😂

In reply to Post #7
Just read below , couldn't find it , flipping hell🤮
Heard of a few losing their tickets for breaking this rule👍🏻

In reply to Post #6
Show us the pics! Would be good to have a something positive to look at!

In reply to Post #9
i`d be genuinely honoured to put my pics up,however i have no idea how to go about getting them off my smart phone,and putting em up..on the forum..

what made these captures special is all i have caught from this place ,perch wise is just smaallens,so it was very satisfying to know they got to this size..i also had a nice mid double common ,i use a 13ft four piece match rod,centrepin,five lb maxima ,to 14 hook,handtied spade end

i fish the prawns cut down like a massive maggot ,hooked on the end ,not the middle...was a great sess..not much beats float fishing using a centrepin on an old manor house lake,and being the only soul there...

In reply to Post #1
Both sacks and retainers are safe if used sensibly imo.

In reply to Post #3
yes there is... been lucky enough to fish some crystal clear lakes and many many times I have seen big fish swim of strong and than after 10m lay down on the bottom on its side and recover for more than 1h... retaining fish for me has got little to do with photos...

In reply to Post #12
I have fished waters on which it is a rule that you HAVE TO retain fish for at least 15 mins.

There is a place for sacks and retainers imo. As usual it's idiots misusing them that gives the equipment a bad name.

In reply to Post #13
Do you mean land fish, weigh, photo and retain for 15 minutes before letting it go
Or land fish, retain for 15 minutes to regain strength, restress it by weighing and photoing with the extra danger caused by the fish having regained strength

If you're well organised you can do the first one quickly without retaining but can't see any harm in doing so if you have the depth of water.
The second one I don't understand.

In reply to Post #14
The rule was retain for at least 15 mins prior to photos to let the fish recover a little.

I can see the logic in the rule. Giving the fish a little break to recover in prep for it's visit to the bank. But I also see your point regards re-stressing.

I think we have to be careful when discussing stress. I mean, look at what we do to them lol. There are pros and cons for resting vs. getting it all out of the way quickly.

In reply to Post #12
Yes retain for a few minutes to recover, not retain for hours to take photos in the light. 2 totally different things and you know full well that's what I meant

In reply to Post #15
At the end of the day it's up to the person who makes up the rules but I don't see any problem in doing it the 'old' way.
Forcing people to retain can just create a new set of problems IMO.

In reply to Post #17
It's not about rules for me, it's about common sense, which unfortunately we know some angler either don't have or disregard entirely

Nobody has mentioned cutting the corners off the sack, a mate of mine lost a carp in a sack years ago, we looked for it everyday, even tried lure fishing to try and hook the sack, the carp just stayed down deep in the dark sack.
Ten days later we found it dead and gassed up, my mate was devastated, terrible end for a fish.... Cutting the corners off allows it to feed if a sack has to be used.

In reply to Post #19
few minutes is nothing, 1h is min for big carp to recover from my experience... I only replied because you said sacks have no place in carp fishing... in my opinion they are better than floating retainer... give carp a chance and 9/10 times they will go down in deeper water... not trying to argue here just stating my experience. and as I said... would not use it without float.

In reply to Post #20
That's interesting john then I could catch it pre sacked 😂
On a water I fish you are asked to retain the fish to give it time
To recover, I will do this after the trophy shot , makes handling the carp easier for me
I agree the fish usually swims off and seeks refuge
I try to get the whole handling thing done ASAP
Common sense really

In reply to Post #20
An hour? Way too long in general. If they are that tired you've over played them imo. Even in 40 degree heat this summer and with fish I had to give an oxygen bath the longest it took for one to recover was about 15-20 minutes max.

In reply to Post #22
that is your experience from crystal clear water where you could follow fish how it swam of more that 10m? because mine is completely different. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

In reply to Post #23
Crystal clear waters yes. They shouldn't take that long to recover if played in in a reasonable time frame. The same with any species, you can over play them and cause a lot of harm

In reply to Post #24
Think this highlights the stress we put on our beloved carp
Let's agree to make the capture and return swift , trouble is the older
Bigger fish get too much bank time , get your stuff organised before hand
If I feel I'm stressing the fish too much I just return it
I have a phone full of mat pics 👍🏻😂
But plenty of memories

In reply to Post #11
There's the nail hit firmly on the head 👍

I'm not a great fan of retaining fish at all, some of the best atmospheric pics of all things dark and scaly are night shots. However, if there are valid reasons then both are equally good or bad.

I'm not a fan of retaining slings at all. Many years ago as a match angler in the early 70's the big issues being driven by the angling press was the need for longer keepnets. The reason - there was research which showed the the first couple of feet of water contained less oxygen, especially in summer conditions, therefore nets needed to be longer, and subsequently were made so.

The average retention sling is about two feet deep so a carp kept in there for an extended period is in the top layers - and not by choice. It can't drift down to a different thermocline to regulate itself. A carp in a sack can at least go deep if the water allows it.

As I said both are not ideal.

Some carpers are idiots - just mirroring society in general.

Retention slings are just like tackle labelled ‘Safe Zone' - they aren't because the operator failed to understand the context of the operators manual ( or in this case the tiny print which states why they are thus named).

Best they are not used at all, but if they have to be and are used intelligently for minimum periods I'd say a sack was better.

Now watch the **** fly.

In reply to Post #1
No, I haven't sacked a carp in 25 years and frankly, these days there is zero reason to do it anyway. Back in the day we sacked carp to get pictures in day light, at least that's the reason I sacked fish. Now with digital cameras and the ease of doing self takes, you just don't need to retain any fish, ever. There's also the safety issue of sacking fish. Having seen carp die as a result of being sacked, well, there another good reason to ban their use. Having said that, those fish died more as a result of the idiots who sacked fish in shallow, warm water; but therein lies the problem, idiots will and do use them. Most waters thankfully ban their use.

As to retaining fish to allow them to recover and then, photograph weigh them? That's nonsense. Whoever mandates that practice needs shooting. Do you really want the fish back on the bank full of fight? Think about that one... personally, I have them in the net, unhooked, weighed and if it's worthy, photographed - all inside a couple of minutes. Sadly, from what I see on the bank, I am in the minority... more so since people started making stupid videos of themselves

My carp sack lives in my unhooking mat/cradle, it is however used as a dog bed. If Sky has to come in the bivvy, she sleeps on it.

I have a retaining weigh sling, with metal poles and floats. The fishery rules insist on metal handled weigh slings.

I tend to keep the fish in the landing net while I position camera to do self takes. From landing net to unhooking mat, weigh, photo and return. A few minutes.

I have been asked by fishery owners to sack fish, smaller fish that were going back into a stock pond, and in one case, a fish that needed a stitch or two after somehow getting a cut down its flank.

It is rare for me to retain fish, I can do night shots if I need, although many fish just get a quick mat shot.
Last summer was not one for a sack or retainer sling either, water too warm, and the margins not deep enough for a sack anyway.

WAY back in the day
when I used to go to all the BCSG meets we had one at Loughborough college in the 70s and a guest speaker was a fish biologist and gave a brilliant talk and one of the things he told us about

was that during the fight and the removal from the fishes world to be unhooked and pictures taken
the fish would produce the equivalent of adrenalin and the older and bigger the fish the worse the effect was

and they OFTEN shortly after release would swim away and die !!!!!!

he said to prevent this it would simply be a case of sacking the fish preferably a dark sack so it would have chance to slowly recover and for the lactic acid or whatever the hell he called it lol to dissipated normally 20 to 30 mins then the fish would come to no harm when released

so just stop and think of any big fish you remember being caught and then being found dead a short time after im sure we can all think of a few

In reply to Post #11
Agreed

In reply to Post #30
Agree but this is the only reason viable for retaining a fish
I'd imagine and have seen carp swim off and sit in the weed to recover naturally , is this adequate?
So where rules dictate , I retain the fish , but for how long? As long as I'm told, but who really knows
Big fish usually die first in oxygen crashes etc
The gills are usually smaller in comparison to their bulk
Maybe damaged over the years etc
So please get organised , take a trophy shot and get the fish back in the water
To be honest does anyone know what to do when a fish goes into shock
I'm no expert but have had a carp go into what looks like shock
But have some experience with koi , reviving them after treatment and after finding one on the paving
So far so good for me

In reply to Post #29
That's interesting and I can quite believe it.

A friend of mine is also a fish biologist, and angler. He told me once that it is vitally important to rest a fish immediately after landing it. Give it a few minutes in the net, even before unhooking it, in order for the fish to regain a little energy.

Interesting reading

I've posted on these threads before and there is one thing and one thing only you need if you are using sacks and that is a float so if the worse happens, it becomes untethered, you can rescue the fish. It must be a terrible death and I'm guessing it will have happened

I personally think the floating slings are brilliant, I have a fox one, top bit of kit. More spacious then a sack, they don't seem to cling on the fish like a sack does and they cannot go down into snags such as tree roots. I once saw one muppet heaving away at a snagged sack, I got in and freed it before the muppet parted the cord

The floating ones will be perfect if they become untethered, I suppose the only down side is in red hot weather and retraining them for long periods which I'm guessing the odd muppet will

Fish safety should be number 1, like already mentioned, the catch is stressful enough for them. Again, enter the human element and that's where the problems start, sacking a fish for 10 or 15 minutes I can handle, half the night or above is a piss take for me