Anyone using the new Baitcraft (Bank bug) bait?
Is the T1 the same as the original stuff?
Is the T1 the same as the original stuff?
In reply to Post #1
No and no
No and no
In reply to Post #2
Will never go back to them. Did so well on their bait, then things went wrong, their bait suddenly changed, was mucked about. And I ended my loyalty to them. Once bitten, twice shy.
Will never go back to them. Did so well on their bait, then things went wrong, their bait suddenly changed, was mucked about. And I ended my loyalty to them. Once bitten, twice shy.
In reply to Post #3
I don't think Mark even fishes anymore?
I don't think Mark even fishes anymore?
My mission is to get the original formula.
In reply to Post #5
I dont think it's anything that ground breaking but its owned by bank bug now isnt it, so totally different company. I doubt they would make the same mistake again?
I dont think it's anything that ground breaking but its owned by bank bug now isnt it, so totally different company. I doubt they would make the same mistake again?
In reply to Post #5
I'm sure I still have some in the freezer from When it was good stuff
Also have A pot of the 10mm pop up in T1
And I think a pot of cow cola
I'm sure I still have some in the freezer from When it was good stuff
Also have A pot of the 10mm pop up in T1
And I think a pot of cow cola
In reply to Post #1
Absolute junk. Steer well clear.
Absolute junk. Steer well clear.
In reply to Post #6
The original bait was absolutely brilliant, one of the best I ever used. I'm not sure its ground breaking as in it used an ingredient that no one else was, but however it was put together, in its original form it caught everywhere we took it. I personally think it was never the same once it was tweaked to make it go through the new rolling machines.
As for the bank bug version, well ive looked at it a couple of times, pulled it apart, sniffed it, tasted it etc. I don't recognise it as what we used to use.
The original bait was absolutely brilliant, one of the best I ever used. I'm not sure its ground breaking as in it used an ingredient that no one else was, but however it was put together, in its original form it caught everywhere we took it. I personally think it was never the same once it was tweaked to make it go through the new rolling machines.
As for the bank bug version, well ive looked at it a couple of times, pulled it apart, sniffed it, tasted it etc. I don't recognise it as what we used to use.
In reply to Post #9
I always believed Mark had to change the original as one of the main ingredients became unavailable, hence he changed the mix and that was the beginning of the slippery slope.
I always believed Mark had to change the original as one of the main ingredients became unavailable, hence he changed the mix and that was the beginning of the slippery slope.
Found some original T1 pop ups & hard hookers in freezer other week, was great bait back Mid 2000s
In reply to Post #1
Its seems like a strange choice of brands to resurrect, given the cloud it ended under....
Its seems like a strange choice of brands to resurrect, given the cloud it ended under....
In reply to Post #10
I was told that when production switched to the new unit and the new rolling machines were installed, it was discovered that the original mix wouldn't machine roll. The story goes that there was then a very frantic week of test mixes until a version was found that would work. And suddenly the new t1 was born. Funny that. Could just be another rumour but because of who told me i doubt it.
I was told that when production switched to the new unit and the new rolling machines were installed, it was discovered that the original mix wouldn't machine roll. The story goes that there was then a very frantic week of test mixes until a version was found that would work. And suddenly the new t1 was born. Funny that. Could just be another rumour but because of who told me i doubt it.
In reply to Post #11
I remember you using it before it was commercially available (I think) in 2005 under the name of Ultimate Shellfish.
I remember you using it before it was commercially available (I think) in 2005 under the name of Ultimate Shellfish.
The recipe/company was bought from Mark by a chap named Chris.
I haven't looked at any of the new bait but Chris does seem like a genuine guy and has assured me that the recipe is exactly the same as it was in T1's hay day.
You can read about this on the Baitcraft website.
Might well be worth a second chance fellas, the original was a tremendous bait before Mark did what he did.
I haven't looked at any of the new bait but Chris does seem like a genuine guy and has assured me that the recipe is exactly the same as it was in T1's hay day.
You can read about this on the Baitcraft website.
Might well be worth a second chance fellas, the original was a tremendous bait before Mark did what he did.
In reply to Post #15
I used the t1 from the very early days, as did a lot of my mates. Mark fished the same waters as us and one of my mates worked for baitcraft. At one of the shows I grabbed a handful of it and took it back to my mate. He used it a lot as well. I gave him the samples I'd picked up. He looked at them, broke them open, sniffed them and then asked me what it was! Same as me he didn't even recognise it. When I said T1 he laughed.
I've got no doubt the new owner probably does genuinely believe it's the same bait. I'm sure he's a nice guy and I'm sure he's not deliberately trying to turn people over. But from my experience like I said it didn't seem to be the same colour, texture or smell.
I'd dearly love the original mix. Same as I'd love the original active8 mix. Wouldn't we all.
I used the t1 from the very early days, as did a lot of my mates. Mark fished the same waters as us and one of my mates worked for baitcraft. At one of the shows I grabbed a handful of it and took it back to my mate. He used it a lot as well. I gave him the samples I'd picked up. He looked at them, broke them open, sniffed them and then asked me what it was! Same as me he didn't even recognise it. When I said T1 he laughed.
I've got no doubt the new owner probably does genuinely believe it's the same bait. I'm sure he's a nice guy and I'm sure he's not deliberately trying to turn people over. But from my experience like I said it didn't seem to be the same colour, texture or smell.
I'd dearly love the original mix. Same as I'd love the original active8 mix. Wouldn't we all.
In reply to Post #16
Interesting, thanks for all the replies.
Interesting, thanks for all the replies.
In reply to Post #16
Interesting. When was the show that you went to?
Interesting. When was the show that you went to?
In reply to Post #18
I can't remember which one it was now. I'd guess ether the big one at farnbourgh or the northern. I don't think it was Sandown.
I can't remember which one it was now. I'd guess ether the big one at farnbourgh or the northern. I don't think it was Sandown.
In reply to Post #19
Super K was the one for me, I caught everywhere where i used it, whether straight out of the bag, pop ups or glugged, it was an absolute winner for me. Then it changed, the baits became so soft i couldnt even put them on the hair without splitting. Moved away from them after that, shame, as an absolute winner....still got a pot of the ordiginal glugged wafters in the fridge for those memories.
Super K was the one for me, I caught everywhere where i used it, whether straight out of the bag, pop ups or glugged, it was an absolute winner for me. Then it changed, the baits became so soft i couldnt even put them on the hair without splitting. Moved away from them after that, shame, as an absolute winner....still got a pot of the ordiginal glugged wafters in the fridge for those memories.
In reply to Post #20
Super K was a awesome bait. As were all of Marks baits. Shame how it all ended up. Be fantastic if the recipe's were made available or they were again, for sale in the original format.
Super K was a awesome bait. As were all of Marks baits. Shame how it all ended up. Be fantastic if the recipe's were made available or they were again, for sale in the original format.
In reply to Post #19
No I mean WHEN was it!?
No I mean WHEN was it!?
In reply to Post #1
I admit to having no first hand experience of baitcraft in any form but I found the comments on the new website by the MD interesting.
He eludes to the fact on more than one occasion the original owner couldn't be trusted but he clearly trusted him enough to assume he was given the original recipe?
Also "we worked with some serious bait gurus to bring back the bait in its original form?" Surely if they had the recipe and list of suppliers for the ingredients they were nearly there. The suggestion bait gurus were needed suggests to me the bait was tweaked or played with possibly as some Ingredients were no longer avaialable or no longer cost affective?
Lastly any company that has to advertise for 'bait testers' in order to shift their bait gets a no from me.
I admit to having no first hand experience of baitcraft in any form but I found the comments on the new website by the MD interesting.
He eludes to the fact on more than one occasion the original owner couldn't be trusted but he clearly trusted him enough to assume he was given the original recipe?
Also "we worked with some serious bait gurus to bring back the bait in its original form?" Surely if they had the recipe and list of suppliers for the ingredients they were nearly there. The suggestion bait gurus were needed suggests to me the bait was tweaked or played with possibly as some Ingredients were no longer avaialable or no longer cost affective?
Lastly any company that has to advertise for 'bait testers' in order to shift their bait gets a no from me.
In reply to Post #22
About 1.30pm i think
About 1.30pm i think
In reply to Post #23
I used the original t1, think it was called ultimate shellfish originally. Know 2 lads that worked for him, had an order turn up different a few years down the line shortly after they moved premises, then both lads I knew that worked for him also stopped using the bait for there own fishing and bought from elsewhere. That was warning enough for me, a lot of talk about ingredients becoming unavailable, machines not being able to roll certain pastes, this that the other, more like £££ notes flashed infront of his eyes. Not a chance the bait being produced now is the same, despite claims, as far as I'm concerned if the md of a bait manufacturing company has to get a bait guru in to design his bait for him, it doesn't really sell you much confidence.
Far better, proven baits about, made by people that have lifetimes worth of knowledge to back it up.
I used the original t1, think it was called ultimate shellfish originally. Know 2 lads that worked for him, had an order turn up different a few years down the line shortly after they moved premises, then both lads I knew that worked for him also stopped using the bait for there own fishing and bought from elsewhere. That was warning enough for me, a lot of talk about ingredients becoming unavailable, machines not being able to roll certain pastes, this that the other, more like £££ notes flashed infront of his eyes. Not a chance the bait being produced now is the same, despite claims, as far as I'm concerned if the md of a bait manufacturing company has to get a bait guru in to design his bait for him, it doesn't really sell you much confidence.
Far better, proven baits about, made by people that have lifetimes worth of knowledge to back it up.
In reply to Post #25
I suspect we know the same two people
I suspect we know the same two people
In reply to Post #24
🙄 no need to be a dick head.
Quite obviously, I'm asking which year it was.
This year, two years ago, 8 years ago. You get the idea....
Maybe you'd rather not answer, for some reason 🤔
🙄 no need to be a dick head.
Quite obviously, I'm asking which year it was.
This year, two years ago, 8 years ago. You get the idea....
Maybe you'd rather not answer, for some reason 🤔
In reply to Post #27
If it was at sandown then it would have been a couple of years ago. If it was the big one or NAS then last year
If it was at sandown then it would have been a couple of years ago. If it was the big one or NAS then last year
In reply to Post #28
Thank you for the reply.
Thank you for the reply.
Used the original for years and caught everywhere I took it , then mark changed something , it was a different colour and texture and just stank of salmon oil .... had a look at the bankbug version out of interest and in no way shape or form does it resemble the original t1
So what was the ultimate decline in the baits?
Was it the fact that an ingredient became unavailable and was substituted for something else?
Was it that the company cut corners and failed on quality?
Was it the fact that an ingredient became unavailable and was substituted for something else?
Was it that the company cut corners and failed on quality?
In reply to Post #31
Possibly both.
Also not helped by making that next big step up in production volumes, a unit, staff, milk protein & fishmeal cost hikes you know.... making your rolling tables mixes become machine rolling friendly on a big scale.
Possibly both.
Also not helped by making that next big step up in production volumes, a unit, staff, milk protein & fishmeal cost hikes you know.... making your rolling tables mixes become machine rolling friendly on a big scale.
In reply to Post #31
In 2011-2012 Mark went through the trouble of getting fishmeal and other ingredients straight from factories in Norway to make sure they was as good and fresh as possible, so he was very quality concious at that time.
In 2011-2012 Mark went through the trouble of getting fishmeal and other ingredients straight from factories in Norway to make sure they was as good and fresh as possible, so he was very quality concious at that time.
In reply to Post #33
Hmm very odd why things went so sour then. I'm sure there was a reason, but no excuse. Does make you wonder though. His baits had almost a cult following in the valley. Seems strange to think that it was thrown away.
Hmm very odd why things went so sour then. I'm sure there was a reason, but no excuse. Does make you wonder though. His baits had almost a cult following in the valley. Seems strange to think that it was thrown away.
In reply to Post #34
I think two mistakes he made. Firstly he should never have started selling through shops. That was always gonna be a disaster. A massive following of guys buying direct ain't gonna start to pay £13 a kilo all of a sudden and shops soon get pissed when they've got a freezer full of bait no one will buy cos they can get it direct for half the price.
Secondly if mark had enough of rolling he should have gone to Active baits and said look guys, you know my baits good and catches. Here's the formula. You make it, roll it and distribute it and pay me a percentage. That way it's an all round win for everyone. With their buying power they could have kept the price down and the quality the same.
Trying to cheapen a mix won't ever work. It failed for baitcraft and it's back fired on urban ( remember them?)
I think two mistakes he made. Firstly he should never have started selling through shops. That was always gonna be a disaster. A massive following of guys buying direct ain't gonna start to pay £13 a kilo all of a sudden and shops soon get pissed when they've got a freezer full of bait no one will buy cos they can get it direct for half the price.
Secondly if mark had enough of rolling he should have gone to Active baits and said look guys, you know my baits good and catches. Here's the formula. You make it, roll it and distribute it and pay me a percentage. That way it's an all round win for everyone. With their buying power they could have kept the price down and the quality the same.
Trying to cheapen a mix won't ever work. It failed for baitcraft and it's back fired on urban ( remember them?)
In reply to Post #30
Which time was this? Remember him buying salmon oil.
Which time was this? Remember him buying salmon oil.
In reply to Post #36
He did release a bait called Savay Salmon. It could coincide with that.
He did release a bait called Savay Salmon. It could coincide with that.
In reply to Post #37
That was later I believe and also involving another ingredient
That was later I believe and also involving another ingredient
In reply to Post #37
The savay salmon smelt very similar to rich worth salmon supreme .
All the salmon boilies I bought were so soft they were used for crumbling.
The savay salmon smelt very similar to rich worth salmon supreme .
All the salmon boilies I bought were so soft they were used for crumbling.
In reply to Post #39
The Savay salmon was very similar base mix to T1, less the 10% Haiths Robin red and other bits and pieces. I thought.
But I was told by someone in Kent that was field testing the Savay Salmon for Mark, Pre release, that the ‘smell' was the original Pukka Salmon, first made famous, and sourced by Rod Hutchinson, and then, later on, Chris Haswell managed to source it, As I bought some off him.
I don't know if that is, or was correct
The Savay salmon was very similar base mix to T1, less the 10% Haiths Robin red and other bits and pieces. I thought.
But I was told by someone in Kent that was field testing the Savay Salmon for Mark, Pre release, that the ‘smell' was the original Pukka Salmon, first made famous, and sourced by Rod Hutchinson, and then, later on, Chris Haswell managed to source it, As I bought some off him.
I don't know if that is, or was correct
In reply to Post #40
I bought a bit of savay salmon a few months before things went pear shaped, I was catching well on it but by the time I was ready for a second order the price had halved and there were a lot of very negative comments about the baits changing. I remember he stopped using Robin red and made his own version which seemed a big deal at the time, not sure I'd be that bothered by that single change now as rr has changed anyway
I bought a bit of savay salmon a few months before things went pear shaped, I was catching well on it but by the time I was ready for a second order the price had halved and there were a lot of very negative comments about the baits changing. I remember he stopped using Robin red and made his own version which seemed a big deal at the time, not sure I'd be that bothered by that single change now as rr has changed anyway
In reply to Post #26
It sounds like we do, I heard a handful of horror stories from them.. shame as it goes really, his bait was fantastic in the beginning.. it's good to see some smaller companies still out there who work off smaller scales, maintaining quality and not being deers in the pound note headlights.
It sounds like we do, I heard a handful of horror stories from them.. shame as it goes really, his bait was fantastic in the beginning.. it's good to see some smaller companies still out there who work off smaller scales, maintaining quality and not being deers in the pound note headlights.
In reply to Post #42
Marks Bait T1 in particular was in the beginning, a top notch bait, outstanding to other baits for the money TBH.
The best fresh fishmeal, top notch milk proteins, feed enhancers, the whole package, several of my friends using it were not home bait makers, but raved about it, caught everywhere.
I did use 10kg of his special K/Super K to try, before it all went Pete Tong, but at the time was rolling my own, and using ABS/Geoffs bait as well.
Comparing results it was no better or worse for me than the other baits.
In hindsight, Sometimes it is better to stay as you are, smaller and fresher, lower overheads, etc.
Marks Bait T1 in particular was in the beginning, a top notch bait, outstanding to other baits for the money TBH.
The best fresh fishmeal, top notch milk proteins, feed enhancers, the whole package, several of my friends using it were not home bait makers, but raved about it, caught everywhere.
I did use 10kg of his special K/Super K to try, before it all went Pete Tong, but at the time was rolling my own, and using ABS/Geoffs bait as well.
Comparing results it was no better or worse for me than the other baits.
In hindsight, Sometimes it is better to stay as you are, smaller and fresher, lower overheads, etc.
Didn't one of the baits (super k?)have an ingredient in which pet food makers used to get the pet addicted to that certain food. I remember asking him about it at a show years ago when he was selling direct and he changed the subject to the " it's got high amount of cheese powder" , twice.
In reply to Post #44
The bait with an element of cheese was Halo I believe. K from memory was a meaty/spicy type bait.
T1, K and Halo were all on the same base mix, just with different additives.
The bait with an element of cheese was Halo I believe. K from memory was a meaty/spicy type bait.
T1, K and Halo were all on the same base mix, just with different additives.
In reply to Post #45
Halo, that was the one. Was always curious about the pet food additive.
Halo, that was the one. Was always curious about the pet food additive.
In reply to Post #45
Super K deffo has a meaty/spicy smell. Light brownish in colour. Lovely bait until it went tits up
Super K deffo has a meaty/spicy smell. Light brownish in colour. Lovely bait until it went tits up
My memory isn't that great so I could be completely wrong but I think I recall reading an article that he was designing a machine or something that could be used in a different industry. I got the feeling from the article he was going away from making bait and starting a new venture. Maybe in a carpworld
In reply to Post #48
Indeed he did, I believe Mark went into Fitness and personal training, after Baitcraft.
Indeed he did, I believe Mark went into Fitness and personal training, after Baitcraft.
In reply to Post #49
Yeah he did he started makeing suplements as far as i know
Yeah he did he started makeing suplements as far as i know
In reply to Post #50
He put his previous bait knowledge of Milk Protein suppliers to good use, for Caseins, WPC 80 AND Whey Protein Isolate.
He put his previous bait knowledge of Milk Protein suppliers to good use, for Caseins, WPC 80 AND Whey Protein Isolate.
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