Had an odd conversation today.

At my usual day ticket lake and decide the day looks good for a zig. I crack out the deeper pro+ to get depths and have a couple of casts.

Next thing I know, guy in the swim next door who turns out to be the bailiff comes storming over telling me to stop as apparently the splashing was scaring the fish and ruining his session. He then said he was trying to get them banned by the lake!

In all honesty, it takes at most 3 casts on an average swim to have a good lay of the land. Most people do a lot more than that with a marker lead. And a spomb will make a hell of a lot more noise than a deeper.

I've used this at every lake I've fished since I got it and this is the first time someone has told me to stop!

In reply to Post #1
He was probably blanking and his wife would not let him buy one as she owned his other spherical shaped objects

In reply to Post #1
Was it his lake....No.

Some people these days can't resist sticking their nose in where it's not wanted....you should have seen if you could fit the deeper in his gob

In reply to Post #3
How are you getting on with the deeper?

Mine would never connect with my phone properly no matter what settings I tried so it got sold.....nearly as disappointing as my ring doorbell but that's another story.

In reply to Post #1
Day ticket waters... gotta love em..

In reply to Post #1
Some bailiffs honestly do believe they own the place, knob jockey!!

In reply to Post #1
Had the same thing many many years ago with alarms.

Some of it I think is jealousy. Bet you if you started wacking a marker float around or spoming he would be different .


Some bailiffs are not worth the oxygen they steal

If it's a small venue with swims packed in tight you could understand peeps getting annoyed at you casting out your tennis ball due to the disturbance caused....

On a larger venue I see no issues.

In reply to Post #8
They make next to no disturbance,in fact when I drop a decent turd that makes more of a splash

In reply to Post #5
Gets even better when the bailiff is fishing the place too. Wonder if he's one f those in it for the free ticket who camps in the hot swims, lives on the place and ****s it up for everybody else too...

In reply to Post #9
I had a play around with one in a stock pond. It is a reasonable sized water that currently has a large head of fish in it. First cast showed loads of fish second and subsequent costs in the same area nothing.
May be coincidence but made me wonder whether they could detect the omisions from the deeper and they moved away.

In reply to Post #11
I can't say I have had that happen,was it shallow in the area you tried it

In reply to Post #11
The emissions are pulses of sound so the fish can detect them. Did a couple of seasons rod and line fishing commercially for bass. Skippers prefer satnav, visual/radar markers to locate marks. "don't you ping em boy."
How intrusive/uncomfortable to the fish are the frequencies used?

In reply to Post #13
The emissions are pulses of sound so the fish can detect them
My guess is they can't. Why would nature give them the ability to detect signals invented by man?

Hopefully they will be banned...poxy things!

In reply to Post #14
Pulses of sound are are vibrations which carp feel through the lateral line which is very sensative.

In reply to Post #15
Better still Micky ban the noddy using them lol.

In reply to Post #16
But not in that frequency range

Edit
I've heard amongst other things that fish can detect high voltages across pylons, the electrical charge created by a lead and a hook and a some other theories that I can't think of at the moment. I have trouble believing them until scientifically proven

Did you stop though? I wouldn't have ,like he said he was trying ti get them banned in other words there not as yet

In reply to Post #12
6ft.

In reply to Post #17
Lol. Unfortunately more anglers seem to agree with them than not now...so unless they are not allowed in the rules then its fair game but for me its another step to far. Also ive noticed the carp gods seem to frown upon the user and they tend to have a rather bad season for their sins! Lol

The splashing will actually attract carp.

In reply to Post #20
So not too shallow

In reply to Post #22
Only if they associate it with dinner time..

In reply to Post #21
Anglers?

In reply to Post #14
Sorry but I think you misunderstand the nature of sound. It doesn't matter how a sound is generated, natural, man-made, electronic, mechanical, it is a vibration moving through a medium like air, riverbank or in this case water. Carp have a huge number sensors sensitive to pressure and vibration so I think it is a fair bet they are aware of it. Whether it alarms them is different question. Would like to know the frequency range the transponders generate.

In reply to Post #26
I'm tempted to say that you misunderstand but as neither of us can proof our theories it's best agree to disagree. Imo carp don't have an infinite amount of senses

In reply to Post #8
I think Andy has hit the nail on the head. With swims in close proximity, there are plenty of ways of annoying your neighbour especially if they want a bit of piece and quiet.

In reply to Post #27
Happy to agree to disagree But I didn't say carp had an infinite number of senses, I said they had a huge number of sensors. Very different. My admittedly brief description of sound is not theory, as they say you can't change the laws of physics. Tight lines.

In reply to Post #26
90khz wide 290khz narrow.

In reply to Post #30
A quick google brought me here
LINK

To be honest due to my fishing suffering due to over thinking and being anal in the past I took a conscious 'it's only fishing' approach and so have hardly read it but maybe it might be useful to others?

In reply to Post #31
Sound travels in water. Check
Fish can hear sound. Check
Fish can sense pressure. Check
Transponders transmit in range at least some fish can hear. Check.
Does it affect them? Don't know. Does it worry me?
No. Don't use tech to catch carp.
Found the stew pond observation interesting is all.

In reply to Post #32
What range of frequencies are considered to be sound.
And as fish don't have ears they can't hear sound so what frequencies can they detect? not very high as far as I can make out.

May have worried me in the past but doesn't worry me anymore. It's only fishing

One of the biggest clubs in Essex has banned them. I don't think that's due to disturbance though.

In reply to Post #33
You have just put up a link to a lengthy research document that clearly states fish have ears and can hear. It clearly states that the hearing of some fish can detect frequencies that fall within the range of deeper transponders. From the highest to the lowest frequencies its all sound

In reply to Post #35
As we agreed earlier we'll have to disagree

I wouldn't mind betting the bailiffs real problem was the electronic gadget, rather than the disturbance.

In reply to Post #37
Your last paragraph explains it all , trouble is today's instant catch at all costs carper doesn't get it. They're banned on my syndicate as are instant catch at all cost carpers (dont even make the list) if one even still exists.

In reply to Post #35
Absolutely spot on with your explanation of sound.
Different species of fish can hear a different range of frequencies just like dogs and bats for example can hear higher frequencies than we can.

In reply to Post #36
I think you're right. I'm having way too much fun for an old man.
Good health and good fishing.

In reply to Post #39
But how many species of fish can hear the frequencies that the Deeper uses of 90Khz and 250Khz
According to the link in post #31 it's one the American Shad all the others can't hear much about 5Khz.

A bit off topic I suppose as that's not what the bailiff in Post#1 was getting the hump about

In reply to Post #41
I certainly haven't come across any research finding that carp can hear frequencies that high and I would be
very surprised if 90Khz and higher was detectable by them. That said carp do surprise us in many ways.

However sound and shockwaves from the splashing certainly would be detected so even if he is being a bit fussy the bailiff is technically right.
Noisy setting up, shouting, banging in pegs, spombs, heavy leads etc are all detectable by carp so will the bailiff also be seeking to ban those things?

I have one. I don't use it all the time. I wouldn't use it if i thought I was going to ruin someone else's fishing and I don't use it for fish finding, but for feature finding it's brilliant.

Here's the two ways I've used it.
Firstly one of my waters is very quiet and pretty deep, but unfortunately has a lot of old machinery on the bottom. So if you try to marker it in a traditional way, you WILL get snagged up and end up leaving leads and braid cracked off on the bottom. I spent half a day with the deeper and now I have a complete map of the lake that would have been very risky to produce in the normal way.

Secondly. I fish waters that can get extremely weedy. As I fish overnighters, often straight after work. I have limited time. Now I could spend upwards of two hours leading about in a swim trying to find an area to present a bait, most likely scare any fish out of the swim and ruin my short session. Or I can make about five casts with the deeper across the surface, rule out 80% of the swim as unfishable, then just lead the areas that the deeper shows me have the best chance of presenting a rig.

So actually in both cases I'm creating less disturbance than I would do with a lead or lead/marker.

Like all these things, they are often banned by people without the intellect to understand how to use them properly.

In reply to Post #43
This. I haven't got one but I will at some point. I understand bait boat bans and most others, but there's no reason to ban something that actually causes less disturbance than the traditional alternative.

I certainly can't understand why other anglers want them banned unless they're scared the people using them will out catch them? It's not like they cause any bother to anyone else.

Maybe it's just not a ‘pukka' way to catch those old ‘scaley warriors', and I think that's what it boils down to in the end.

In reply to Post #43
Totally agree.
I'm in favour of anything that minimises disturbance to carp or fellow anglers.
Also a very good point about the snags, far too much debris around that could be detrimental to wild life.

I deleted most of my post below cos I didn't mean to come across as condescending, was just trying to explain why some of us struggle with this sort of technology in fishing. No doubt the generation before us would have said the same about bite alarms, hair rigs, boilies etc

I've read a few posts and some good points are made about less disturbance and finding spots in weed quickly on short sessions. Who knows I might end up using one myself.

In reply to Post #44
No its because people use em as fish finders and not to map out swims.

In reply to Post #42
In a past career, I worked in research that involved using sound in acoustic fish deterrent systems. The work mainly involved marine species at coastal power stations, but we did some work on freshwater species in relation to flood relief pumping stations. We worked a fair bit on carp, and the only frequencies that were remotely effective were low frequency 'sirens' for want of a better description. I very much doubt that anything emitted by a deeper will have much effect.

In reply to Post #47
Surely one of the most important bits of fishing is finding them? Is it that part you take exception to?

I can't imagine the "purist" sitting there with their eyes closed all day because finding them isn't cricket.

Besides anybody who bases their swim choice on those little icons will probably quickly learn it's not the best idea.

The syndicate i am on allows them but only to be used once you are in your chosen swim rather than moving round everyswim looking for fish with it. This i think is a decent compromise for it as you need to use water craft for location still.......

I have one and use it more in the winter, (primarily to find patches of weed) than summer, preferring a marker set up then as I know I am fishing holes in the weed.

However I have now turned the fish icons off as I found myself using it as a fish-finder rather than a location tool....a month or so ago I turned up at one water, (20 acres) and as I was the only one there I thought I would do a circuit and take the Deeper with me to see if I could locate where the fish were holed up, good in theory but after doing a full lap stopping in every other swim I hadn't picked up a single fish....!

Now this lake also holds Pike so even with the sensitivity turned down a bit I would have expected something, but nothing.....it left me completely deflated and even with all swims free including those with winter form I jumped back in the motor and headed off to another lake 3 miles down the road.....

In reply to Post #15

In reply to Post #1
To be fair you would have probably got a different response from him had you walked over to him beforehand and asked if casting the deeper about would affect his fishing, that shows good angling etiquette and keeps everything friendly.

In reply to Post #53
Do you walk up to people and ask if it's ok to use your marker rod or spod?

In reply to Post #54
I generally walk up to people and let them know of my presence and what I intend to do. Some swims can be deceiving in that what you think is your water may not be so when you check it from another swim.

In reply to Post #54
If I know someone is already fishing there and I might affect them with my actions then yes I do.

In reply to Post #8
Well that's part and parcel unfortunately, wether its a marker rod, 5oz flat pear or spomb, when people set up then it causing a disturbance. I can't see how its any different, and no I don't own one. People always look for an excuse when the fishing is tough

In reply to Post #49
Yes thats it in a nutshell.

In reply to Post #57
Exactly. It's part of fishing on lakes with other people, and it makes no difference what the guy next door is using - what does make a difference is whether he's a helmet or not.

In reply to Post #55
I do the same if I'm fishing close to someone.
Common courtesy in my mind although it seems we may be in the minority.
Also as you have implied it's important if you intend to fish on the edge of your allocated water, your neighbour may be doing the same.
I see no gain in not getting on with your neighbour, fishing should be about enjoyment, not catching fish at all costs.

In reply to Post #60
Would you go and ask if it was OK if you were feeder fishing. I fish a few waters where heavy feeders are de rigueur and these make as much as a splash as a Deeper. If they were casting into my area I would be miffed but if it's their water then there isn't a great deal you can do is there?

When building the swim these feeders can go out 20 times in about 10 minutes then regularly after that. The Deeper - a few times only generally.

Yes I have gritted my teeth in the past but one ends up having to shrug it off. Also, I bet we don't mind if that big splash is caused by a rolling carp. Then there are swans and geese at about this time of year for a month or so. They will create such a furore that you think everything will be put off. Invariably it isn't though and fish feed normally.
I think a lot of the time we think that everybody is being damn noisy except us. We are all rather selective at times I think.
Hands up who feels they are a bit guilty here (raises hand sheepishly).

In reply to Post #61
I very rarely fish with a feeder and certainly not if in close company.
I'm not against deepers as they minimise disturbance.
My point is, be as considerate as possible and get on with your neighbour, life's too short, just enjoy it.