Firstly i'd just like to make it clear that I personally think fish care and safety is paramount.
I've had a random thought that pops up once and a while
but for some reason I've not thought about asking opinions here before.
Obviously manufacturers advertise and sell us items that us anglers "need", I am 100% behind fish care products and taking as much care of the fish as possible but now lies my thought/queries...
Some of these sponsored anglers or owners of certain companies make a massive deal about how to handle fish and show us how to do so, 90% of the time while advertising their new items. Fair enough, its a good way to advertise their products etc but every so often a fish farming video will be released and they clearly aren't handling or treating the fish with as much care or as safely as we would do so on the bank.
I know fish safety is a must and i totally agree with doing all we can to look after them and the more we can do the better, but are carp really as "delicate" as carp gear manufacturers make out?
I've had a random thought that pops up once and a while
but for some reason I've not thought about asking opinions here before.
Obviously manufacturers advertise and sell us items that us anglers "need", I am 100% behind fish care products and taking as much care of the fish as possible but now lies my thought/queries...
Some of these sponsored anglers or owners of certain companies make a massive deal about how to handle fish and show us how to do so, 90% of the time while advertising their new items. Fair enough, its a good way to advertise their products etc but every so often a fish farming video will be released and they clearly aren't handling or treating the fish with as much care or as safely as we would do so on the bank.
I know fish safety is a must and i totally agree with doing all we can to look after them and the more we can do the better, but are carp really as "delicate" as carp gear manufacturers make out?
firstly there are many things to consider, for example,
you are lucky enough to hook a fish in your local lake, and after a considerable fight lasting a length of time, you have now got he fish away from that nasty snag they always seem to head for, and got it through the marginal weed bed, and its finally in the net, now it needs resting, so you get all the slings, mats,camera,etc read and your buddy has arrived to help with the weighing and photos, you show the utmost care , keeping your prize wet, and making sure every action is carried out as quickly and safely, you then gently place the fish in the water, often getting in the lake with it, and you cradle it gently waiting for it to swim away strongly,, but savouring each fleeting moment before that occurs, then suddenly with a flick of the tail, its away. your still buzzing, reliving those moments for hours, often longer, and retelling the story to anyone who is interested.
Now things are somewhat different for a fish farmer, for starters he has nurtured those fish since they were small fry, fed them, kept them safe from predators, monitored their every move,noting those with amazing scale patterns, fully scaled, linears, leathers, and of course commons.
when the time come to transport them to a new home the journey must be planned with military precision, they have to be prepared for travel, this might involve not feeding them for a few days, they travel better on an empty belly, the time of year is important too, even moreso with certain species, trout, grayling need much more oxygen than carp for instance, one thing that seems to trouble carp anglers is the numbers of fish in what appears to be a small container, well lets think about that for a second, carm
carp are social fish, they move in groups, shoals when smaller, they feel safer in large numbers, nature has made them that way, and those on the inside of the shoal feel the safest, any predators or threat they may fear will strike the outside members first, so keeping them in a close confined space with adequate oxygenated water calms them, they believe they are all on the inside of the shoal.
they can be moved in this way without undue stress, and soon swim off to explore their new home, often feeding within a very short time.
the comparisons of the two scenarios are completely different, but each is performed with the fish care and wellbeing in full consideration.
I will give another example of the "safety in numbers" concept.
when I was younger I used to frequent gypsy fairs, and I saw a fellow in a pub win a lot of money with a simple knowledge of "safety in numbers"
he had a sack of live rats,, probably a dozen or more, he would challenge anyone that he could take every rat from one sack by hand and place them in an empty sack,without getting bitten, and the taker of the bet could not do the same with just one rat. pretty soon he would have a taker of the bet, I even held the money on one occasion,
one by one he would remove a live rat from the sack and place it into the other sack, when there was but one rat left he would give the sack to the other fella for him to extract to win the bet, as soon as the fella who was now confident the rats were all tame as it looked so easy when the first guy did it, and the second his hand was in the sack he got bitten,, I saw many get bitten two or three time before admitting defeat.
the secret was simple, while the rats were in a group they felt safe, even when a hand touched them, but as soon as that last rat realised he was alone,, he panicked and bit anything that came near.
I apologise for the long post, but hope it goes some way to an explanation.
you are lucky enough to hook a fish in your local lake, and after a considerable fight lasting a length of time, you have now got he fish away from that nasty snag they always seem to head for, and got it through the marginal weed bed, and its finally in the net, now it needs resting, so you get all the slings, mats,camera,etc read and your buddy has arrived to help with the weighing and photos, you show the utmost care , keeping your prize wet, and making sure every action is carried out as quickly and safely, you then gently place the fish in the water, often getting in the lake with it, and you cradle it gently waiting for it to swim away strongly,, but savouring each fleeting moment before that occurs, then suddenly with a flick of the tail, its away. your still buzzing, reliving those moments for hours, often longer, and retelling the story to anyone who is interested.
Now things are somewhat different for a fish farmer, for starters he has nurtured those fish since they were small fry, fed them, kept them safe from predators, monitored their every move,noting those with amazing scale patterns, fully scaled, linears, leathers, and of course commons.
when the time come to transport them to a new home the journey must be planned with military precision, they have to be prepared for travel, this might involve not feeding them for a few days, they travel better on an empty belly, the time of year is important too, even moreso with certain species, trout, grayling need much more oxygen than carp for instance, one thing that seems to trouble carp anglers is the numbers of fish in what appears to be a small container, well lets think about that for a second, carm
carp are social fish, they move in groups, shoals when smaller, they feel safer in large numbers, nature has made them that way, and those on the inside of the shoal feel the safest, any predators or threat they may fear will strike the outside members first, so keeping them in a close confined space with adequate oxygenated water calms them, they believe they are all on the inside of the shoal.
they can be moved in this way without undue stress, and soon swim off to explore their new home, often feeding within a very short time.
the comparisons of the two scenarios are completely different, but each is performed with the fish care and wellbeing in full consideration.
I will give another example of the "safety in numbers" concept.
when I was younger I used to frequent gypsy fairs, and I saw a fellow in a pub win a lot of money with a simple knowledge of "safety in numbers"
he had a sack of live rats,, probably a dozen or more, he would challenge anyone that he could take every rat from one sack by hand and place them in an empty sack,without getting bitten, and the taker of the bet could not do the same with just one rat. pretty soon he would have a taker of the bet, I even held the money on one occasion,
one by one he would remove a live rat from the sack and place it into the other sack, when there was but one rat left he would give the sack to the other fella for him to extract to win the bet, as soon as the fella who was now confident the rats were all tame as it looked so easy when the first guy did it, and the second his hand was in the sack he got bitten,, I saw many get bitten two or three time before admitting defeat.
the secret was simple, while the rats were in a group they felt safe, even when a hand touched them, but as soon as that last rat realised he was alone,, he panicked and bit anything that came near.
I apologise for the long post, but hope it goes some way to an explanation.
In reply to Post #1
I get what your saying..
Carp are really tough creatures, and it might worth mentioning when the Roman army travelled ,they moved and took their food sources with them,I understand this included carp as a staple..
Ever heard of the saying 'stacking them up 'some pertain this saying or similar is from a time where carp where transported by ship with only soaked reeds ,head to tail,stacked ...they survived apparently..
I bought 6 new carp two years ago from a friend who once made bivvies, anyway it was apparent the level of care was fantastic....
Another point ,is sometimes ,you can have all the best ,latest mats etc,etc it all comes down to angler experience, so a fishery has to factor that in,which is why all these mega unhooking mats appear......my self,I use a chub flat mat for fish up to 20lb if I'm fortunate,after that I got a NGT cradle which is great
I get what your saying..
Carp are really tough creatures, and it might worth mentioning when the Roman army travelled ,they moved and took their food sources with them,I understand this included carp as a staple..
Ever heard of the saying 'stacking them up 'some pertain this saying or similar is from a time where carp where transported by ship with only soaked reeds ,head to tail,stacked ...they survived apparently..
I bought 6 new carp two years ago from a friend who once made bivvies, anyway it was apparent the level of care was fantastic....
Another point ,is sometimes ,you can have all the best ,latest mats etc,etc it all comes down to angler experience, so a fishery has to factor that in,which is why all these mega unhooking mats appear......my self,I use a chub flat mat for fish up to 20lb if I'm fortunate,after that I got a NGT cradle which is great
In reply to Post #3
I will give another example of the "safety in numbers" concept.
when I was younger I used to frequent gypsy fairs, and I saw a fellow in a pub win a lot of money with a simple knowledge of "safety in numbers"
he had a sack of live rats,, probably a dozen or more, he would challenge anyone that he could take every rat from one sack by hand and place them in an empty sack,without getting bitten, and the taker of the bet could not do the same with just one rat. pretty soon he would have a taker of the bet, I even held the money on one occasion,
one by one he would remove a live rat from the sack and place it into the other sack, when there was but one rat left he would give the sack to the other fella for him to extract to win the bet, as soon as the fella who was now confident the rats were all tame as it looked so easy when the first guy did it, and the second his hand was in the sack he got bitten,, I saw many get bitten two or three time before admitting defeat.
What a great anecdote love that little story
I will give another example of the "safety in numbers" concept.
when I was younger I used to frequent gypsy fairs, and I saw a fellow in a pub win a lot of money with a simple knowledge of "safety in numbers"
he had a sack of live rats,, probably a dozen or more, he would challenge anyone that he could take every rat from one sack by hand and place them in an empty sack,without getting bitten, and the taker of the bet could not do the same with just one rat. pretty soon he would have a taker of the bet, I even held the money on one occasion,
one by one he would remove a live rat from the sack and place it into the other sack, when there was but one rat left he would give the sack to the other fella for him to extract to win the bet, as soon as the fella who was now confident the rats were all tame as it looked so easy when the first guy did it, and the second his hand was in the sack he got bitten,, I saw many get bitten two or three time before admitting defeat.
What a great anecdote love that little story
In reply to Post #1
Years ago a mate of mine moved house, and had to move his carp from the pond in his garden to a temporary tank in his parents garden, a couple of miles away, a journey that usually took no more than 5minutes. Due to an accident that occurred between two other cars while in transit they were in the back of his car on unhooking mats for around an hour until the road was cleared. They all survived the journey. In fact at least one of the fish is still alive today, 20 years later.
I have seen carp spawning on overhanging branches in rocky margins and scratching themselves to heck on them. Within weeks the tears are healed naturally, often only a small scar, and scales regrow.
You think, we have only had unhooking mats available since the 1990's, before then carp were unhooked on the ground, grass if they were lucky. Very few anglers put jackets or blankets on the ground to protect the fish.
Years ago a mate of mine moved house, and had to move his carp from the pond in his garden to a temporary tank in his parents garden, a couple of miles away, a journey that usually took no more than 5minutes. Due to an accident that occurred between two other cars while in transit they were in the back of his car on unhooking mats for around an hour until the road was cleared. They all survived the journey. In fact at least one of the fish is still alive today, 20 years later.
I have seen carp spawning on overhanging branches in rocky margins and scratching themselves to heck on them. Within weeks the tears are healed naturally, often only a small scar, and scales regrow.
You think, we have only had unhooking mats available since the 1990's, before then carp were unhooked on the ground, grass if they were lucky. Very few anglers put jackets or blankets on the ground to protect the fish.
In reply to Post #6
I came out early one spring morning and found one of my koi on the side of its pond. My guess it was a daybreak spawning chase and it must have been there quite a while (hours perhaps). All the water had dried out from the brickwork it was lying on and the carp itself had also started to look dry and crispy in parts. I noticed a very slight movement of one of its fins so I put it back, moved it through the water and it slowly revived until it was able to swim away after about an hour or so. That one is also still going many years later, it has a bit of a bend in it though which may have been a result of its experience but other than that it's fine.
I agree they do seem to be very resilient, probably a lot more so than we think.
I came out early one spring morning and found one of my koi on the side of its pond. My guess it was a daybreak spawning chase and it must have been there quite a while (hours perhaps). All the water had dried out from the brickwork it was lying on and the carp itself had also started to look dry and crispy in parts. I noticed a very slight movement of one of its fins so I put it back, moved it through the water and it slowly revived until it was able to swim away after about an hour or so. That one is also still going many years later, it has a bit of a bend in it though which may have been a result of its experience but other than that it's fine.
I agree they do seem to be very resilient, probably a lot more so than we think.
They're tough that's for sure. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't take the upmost care with them on the bank. The damage that I've seen myself is mainly mouth damage and this has largely been a result of over stocking, in turn leading to very frequent captures ie. same fish being caught multiple times during the year.
In reply to Post #8
I agree with this to some extent ie overstocking, hungry fish leading to multiple captures but some of the mouth damage must also be laid at the anglers door.
Lots of different reasons for damage obviously but not picking up a rod quick enough which allows a fish to find a snag is something I've seen several times.
A few of us used to fish a small lake with a lot of snags but with pristine fish to 35 lb.
Only day fishing was allowed for the first 20 years we fished there and sitting beside the rods was the “done thing”. However when night fishing was allowed the fish started to show signs of mouth damage presumably due to the time taken to pick up a rod.
I agree with this to some extent ie overstocking, hungry fish leading to multiple captures but some of the mouth damage must also be laid at the anglers door.
Lots of different reasons for damage obviously but not picking up a rod quick enough which allows a fish to find a snag is something I've seen several times.
A few of us used to fish a small lake with a lot of snags but with pristine fish to 35 lb.
Only day fishing was allowed for the first 20 years we fished there and sitting beside the rods was the “done thing”. However when night fishing was allowed the fish started to show signs of mouth damage presumably due to the time taken to pick up a rod.
Although Carp are reasonably hardy, as the stories about them surviving long periods out of water testify, they are also incredibly delicate in certain scenarios and the unhooking process is one of those. A large Carp can easily suffer internal damage if dropped from just a foot. Fins can be very fragile as the infamous Holme Fen video showed a couple of years ago when a fish flipped and snapped its tail clean off on the side of a cradle. Then there's the mouth damage, fin damage from retaining, disease spreading etc...
Can't be too careful
Can't be too careful