In reply to Post #15
The difference is (when fished the way the op says) is that the Heli setup isnt actually towing 10 ft of line, it's towing a few ft of line and a few ft of far stronger, more abrasion resistant leader ,therefore creating more of a hazard than just line. Leaders shouldn't be used with leadclips imo so the 2 don't really compare in the way you say. Fish them naked and there's no difference like you say , but with a leader they are a no no imo
The difference is (when fished the way the op says) is that the Heli setup isnt actually towing 10 ft of line, it's towing a few ft of line and a few ft of far stronger, more abrasion resistant leader ,therefore creating more of a hazard than just line. Leaders shouldn't be used with leadclips imo so the 2 don't really compare in the way you say. Fish them naked and there's no difference like you say , but with a leader they are a no no imo
In reply to Post #15
In my view if using a helicopter rig keeping the lead on the end of the leader makes it a safer rig. If you get snapped and the fish is towing I feel that as long as you have the bead set correctly (I'm a big advocate of the safety beads for this) then the weight of the lead will help with the rig sliding off the leader and ensuring that the fish only has the much shorter rig attached than a longer length of line. This is why I personally don't like the Heli safes as I do feel they make what is one of the safest setups going less safe to fish
In my view if using a helicopter rig keeping the lead on the end of the leader makes it a safer rig. If you get snapped and the fish is towing I feel that as long as you have the bead set correctly (I'm a big advocate of the safety beads for this) then the weight of the lead will help with the rig sliding off the leader and ensuring that the fish only has the much shorter rig attached than a longer length of line. This is why I personally don't like the Heli safes as I do feel they make what is one of the safest setups going less safe to fish
Helisafe is fine in my opinion, I set it to not drop the lead ( it still will but less easily ) the no trace system is really good, I have retrieved loads of leaders when taking spots and never had a helisafe with the hooklink still on the leader. Good enough for me.
In reply to Post #17
Got to agree with you there
Got to agree with you there
In reply to Post #16
A thorny subject for sure and one i agree in part with as the reason i use the helicopter so much is that if set up correctly, if the unfortunate happens and your snapped off then they are just left with the rig. The lead is the anchor point for this to work properly, heli safes don't allow this to happen but perhaps the name is a bit misguiding as they certainly have their place. I was fishing a big gravel pit last autumn and to get to the accessible deeper water your fishing accross numerous really high bars etc and due to the range involved and the nature of the bottom in these areas a helicopter is by far the best presentation. I unfortunately lost the 1st one on there as i simply didn't get the line high enough from the get go. After a lot of tweaking including line diameters and components i ended up using a locked up clutch and the helisafe as a way of ensuring they come straight up in the water on the take in theory . The next take was landed with zero issues, i haven't been back since but will employ this method this season
A thorny subject for sure and one i agree in part with as the reason i use the helicopter so much is that if set up correctly, if the unfortunate happens and your snapped off then they are just left with the rig. The lead is the anchor point for this to work properly, heli safes don't allow this to happen but perhaps the name is a bit misguiding as they certainly have their place. I was fishing a big gravel pit last autumn and to get to the accessible deeper water your fishing accross numerous really high bars etc and due to the range involved and the nature of the bottom in these areas a helicopter is by far the best presentation. I unfortunately lost the 1st one on there as i simply didn't get the line high enough from the get go. After a lot of tweaking including line diameters and components i ended up using a locked up clutch and the helisafe as a way of ensuring they come straight up in the water on the take in theory . The next take was landed with zero issues, i haven't been back since but will employ this method this season
In reply to Post #17
Agree. The fish needs to be attached to as little as possible if the mainline parts.
Anybody using helicopters should be using the marvellous no trace beads as standard for me, little bit of genius and it was right before everybody's eyes all the time, beats spaghetti through the bead and snipping a bead does not work sadly. Left with a hooklink and swivel
I understand the reasoning for ditching the lead with a helicopter in heavy weed, but again, ditching the lead all the time as I understand it! If the line parts it's trailing a leader, a swivel and a hook link
Idiots who force tail rubbers on lead clips are just as bad. As before if the lead comes off, leader, lead clips and hook link, if it's an idiot, add lead!
Run rigs are a safe bet for not tethering a fish but t is still left trailing leader, swivel arrangement and hook link
All rigs have pros and cons. Enter idiots, i can see why some waters state barbless hooks!
One question to ask, can you sleep at night if the worst happens
Agree. The fish needs to be attached to as little as possible if the mainline parts.
Anybody using helicopters should be using the marvellous no trace beads as standard for me, little bit of genius and it was right before everybody's eyes all the time, beats spaghetti through the bead and snipping a bead does not work sadly. Left with a hooklink and swivel
I understand the reasoning for ditching the lead with a helicopter in heavy weed, but again, ditching the lead all the time as I understand it! If the line parts it's trailing a leader, a swivel and a hook link
Idiots who force tail rubbers on lead clips are just as bad. As before if the lead comes off, leader, lead clips and hook link, if it's an idiot, add lead!
Run rigs are a safe bet for not tethering a fish but t is still left trailing leader, swivel arrangement and hook link
All rigs have pros and cons. Enter idiots, i can see why some waters state barbless hooks!
One question to ask, can you sleep at night if the worst happens
The helisafe doesn't automatically drop the lead
Regards to tail rubbers I wish people made them out of softer plastic so couldn't be over done, if you can cast out a large golf ball sized bag with either set up without feathering it to within an inch of its life I don't think it's as safe as it can be
Regards to tail rubbers I wish people made them out of softer plastic so couldn't be over done, if you can cast out a large golf ball sized bag with either set up without feathering it to within an inch of its life I don't think it's as safe as it can be
In reply to Post #22
The only time I've ever had a problem with lead clips is when using a pva bag attached to the hook, the drag making the lead detach on impact. The only way to correct this I've found is to tie the lead on with pva string to secure it to the lead clip.
The only time I've ever had a problem with lead clips is when using a pva bag attached to the hook, the drag making the lead detach on impact. The only way to correct this I've found is to tie the lead on with pva string to secure it to the lead clip.
In reply to Post #23
Other Option is a solid bag weed isn't deep it's low lying
Other Option is a solid bag weed isn't deep it's low lying
In reply to Post #24
Used a lead clip today 10 inch esp semi stiff into a spinner swivel
Used a lead clip today 10 inch esp semi stiff into a spinner swivel
In reply to Post #22
I believe they drop the lead EVERYTIME a fish is on, whether that be in weed (I can understand this a little, pending circumstances) over mud, silt or gravel, which is absolutely and totally unnecessary
Another design that if in the wrong circumstances, I suspect 90% of the time, is absolutely not needed, keeps leads sales up though I suppose
I believe they drop the lead EVERYTIME a fish is on, whether that be in weed (I can understand this a little, pending circumstances) over mud, silt or gravel, which is absolutely and totally unnecessary
Another design that if in the wrong circumstances, I suspect 90% of the time, is absolutely not needed, keeps leads sales up though I suppose
In reply to Post #4
True that. Even when health & safety comes second its worth thinking out your approach long and logically. You're going to loose a lot of fish if you don't. If you can't find a good way to hook and land, dont fish.
True that. Even when health & safety comes second its worth thinking out your approach long and logically. You're going to loose a lot of fish if you don't. If you can't find a good way to hook and land, dont fish.
In reply to Post #26
Correct, this is why they come with the collar to stop the lead dropping. Take s 2 seconds to put it in. Agree that using them without all the time is unnecessary.
Correct, this is why they come with the collar to stop the lead dropping. Take s 2 seconds to put it in. Agree that using them without all the time is unnecessary.
In reply to Post #7
Don't use the heli-safe, because they aren't. In fact I would even ditch anything to do with helicopter rigs in weed.
Inlines, either drop off or torpedo shaped are far better.
Don't use the heli-safe, because they aren't. In fact I would even ditch anything to do with helicopter rigs in weed.
Inlines, either drop off or torpedo shaped are far better.
In reply to Post #29
Out of interest, would you drop the leader too?
Out of interest, would you drop the leader too?