In reply to Post #14
8ft above an oily pellet I can understand, its a straight vertical scent column to follow. 6/7m away I would think is the extreme of what they can 'smell' (to use the human term just to keep this easy to understand) and really depends on the water depth, temperature, wind, undertow, water inlet location, other food items (natural and angler added)....and so on.
On the waters I have watched for this (all clay lakes, no gin-clear gravel pits) the best I believe I have directly seen is only 1-2m, maybe 2.5m at a push. Anymore than this and they just follow a general feeding pattern which I see even with no bait in the water.
As I said above on the clay lakes I fish vision is very much reduced. I have dived in a clay lake and could hardly see my air gauge held right in front of my face! Carp do not have x-ray vision and whilst they can see a slightly different spectrum to us ALL light is affected in muddy water to a large extent. I have some bright pop-ups (I fell for the marketing hype) but I very rarely feel the need to use them and when I have the results are no better than my normal 'dull' coloured baits. Bright baits might work for some fish in some clear (ish) lakes but not the ones I fish for
Now noise is a different thing altogether. On the lakes I fish I can chuck a handful of boilies in a snag tree to feed the fish and watch them melt away from the noise 15-20m away. I have also watched the match anglers on the commercial puddles chuck in a few pellets and you can see the fish bow-wave towards them. So noise can help but I suspect more often than not the quieter you are the better for everyone.
8ft above an oily pellet I can understand, its a straight vertical scent column to follow. 6/7m away I would think is the extreme of what they can 'smell' (to use the human term just to keep this easy to understand) and really depends on the water depth, temperature, wind, undertow, water inlet location, other food items (natural and angler added)....and so on.
On the waters I have watched for this (all clay lakes, no gin-clear gravel pits) the best I believe I have directly seen is only 1-2m, maybe 2.5m at a push. Anymore than this and they just follow a general feeding pattern which I see even with no bait in the water.
As I said above on the clay lakes I fish vision is very much reduced. I have dived in a clay lake and could hardly see my air gauge held right in front of my face! Carp do not have x-ray vision and whilst they can see a slightly different spectrum to us ALL light is affected in muddy water to a large extent. I have some bright pop-ups (I fell for the marketing hype) but I very rarely feel the need to use them and when I have the results are no better than my normal 'dull' coloured baits. Bright baits might work for some fish in some clear (ish) lakes but not the ones I fish for
Now noise is a different thing altogether. On the lakes I fish I can chuck a handful of boilies in a snag tree to feed the fish and watch them melt away from the noise 15-20m away. I have also watched the match anglers on the commercial puddles chuck in a few pellets and you can see the fish bow-wave towards them. So noise can help but I suspect more often than not the quieter you are the better for everyone.
In reply to Post #17
Hi, I don't know how far the carp can detect substances in the water, I tend to think that it needs water currents, water properties that change in relation to temperature or external environment ... Basically, the fish "filters" the water with chemoreceptors, until a particle reaches the olfactory system I don't think it can detect anything ... in water, the "smell" is carried by "currents", just like in the air.
Another good question would be, can the carp feel the difference between the hook boiles and the other boiles scattered around?
Hi, I don't know how far the carp can detect substances in the water, I tend to think that it needs water currents, water properties that change in relation to temperature or external environment ... Basically, the fish "filters" the water with chemoreceptors, until a particle reaches the olfactory system I don't think it can detect anything ... in water, the "smell" is carried by "currents", just like in the air.
Another good question would be, can the carp feel the difference between the hook boiles and the other boiles scattered around?
In reply to Post #18
Smurf........bright hookbaits well made with decent ingredients in them are actually better than dull baits for certain times of the year. It is something I have proved many times. But all things that are obvious have a tendency to become repellant at other times. I have landed 3 very large carp on our yellow special hookbaits from 3 different venues.....but in cold water. It's something I really rate right now In spring. Kiss of death in July to September on many lakes I fish though.
We can now pack so much into a hookbait that pop ups are now actually food baits (liver glm Milks peanut etc)
And still pick a size 4 up for 2 days in 30 foot of water. And we are pushing even further into this every week
Smurf........bright hookbaits well made with decent ingredients in them are actually better than dull baits for certain times of the year. It is something I have proved many times. But all things that are obvious have a tendency to become repellant at other times. I have landed 3 very large carp on our yellow special hookbaits from 3 different venues.....but in cold water. It's something I really rate right now In spring. Kiss of death in July to September on many lakes I fish though.
We can now pack so much into a hookbait that pop ups are now actually food baits (liver glm Milks peanut etc)
And still pick a size 4 up for 2 days in 30 foot of water. And we are pushing even further into this every week
In reply to Post #19
Gav I don't doubt you can make 'food bait' pop ups The Krill and Cal wafters you sent me really do tastes and smell good so can't to try them out next time I get on the bank.
Personally I have fished bright baits next to non-bright baits at various times of the years and on the waters I fished it made no noticeable difference. That was a few years ago now. I also used to 'tip' my (dull) baits with bright fake corn or a half 10mm bright pop-up. Again it made little to no difference. If the fish are there and feeding then they eat almost anything I chuck at them, assuming my presentation is halfway sensible. But I only fish 2 or 3 lakes.
The problem is carp are living breathing creatures and each one has a different set of life experiences from which it has learnt to survive. Maybe the murky clay lakes I fish just do not lend themselves to bright baits making much difference. Other lakes and fish I am sure will be very different
For what its worth the 2 mirrors in my garden pond are always attracted by bright food but that is totally different as they are 'pets' and can virtually be feed from the hand in the summer
To get back to your original question I really am interested in what ranges others have found fish can be attracted from.
They say a shark can detect a drop of blood at extreme distances (miles I think) but its evolved that way as the sea is vast and it could be miles from any food. Carp on the other hand can, and do, eat almost anything so they don't need to sniff out food from anything other than a few feet away as they graze around there home
Gav I don't doubt you can make 'food bait' pop ups
The Krill and Cal wafters you sent me really do tastes and smell good so can't to try them out next time I get on the bank.Personally I have fished bright baits next to non-bright baits at various times of the years and on the waters I fished it made no noticeable difference. That was a few years ago now. I also used to 'tip' my (dull) baits with bright fake corn or a half 10mm bright pop-up. Again it made little to no difference. If the fish are there and feeding then they eat almost anything I chuck at them, assuming my presentation is halfway sensible. But I only fish 2 or 3 lakes.
The problem is carp are living breathing creatures and each one has a different set of life experiences from which it has learnt to survive. Maybe the murky clay lakes I fish just do not lend themselves to bright baits making much difference. Other lakes and fish I am sure will be very different
For what its worth the 2 mirrors in my garden pond are always attracted by bright food but that is totally different as they are 'pets' and can virtually be feed from the hand in the summer
To get back to your original question I really am interested in what ranges others have found fish can be attracted from.
They say a shark can detect a drop of blood at extreme distances (miles I think) but its evolved that way as the sea is vast and it could be miles from any food. Carp on the other hand can, and do, eat almost anything so they don't need to sniff out food from anything other than a few feet away as they graze around there home
In reply to Post #20
i struggled for months on my syndicate, tried everything. i found half a pot of sticky peach and pepper pop ups the bright orange ones.
first session put one on and had 3 bites
i dont know if i was just throwing rigs right on their noses or the colour just made them take the rig. i do know orange baits have done well for me ever since.
i struggled for months on my syndicate, tried everything. i found half a pot of sticky peach and pepper pop ups the bright orange ones.
first session put one on and had 3 bites
i dont know if i was just throwing rigs right on their noses or the colour just made them take the rig. i do know orange baits have done well for me ever since.
In reply to Post #22
Also a big fan of orange bait.
Some literature suggest carps eyesight is the most sensitive for wavelengths in the spectrum correlating with orange colors.
Also a big fan of orange bait.
Some literature suggest carps eyesight is the most sensitive for wavelengths in the spectrum correlating with orange colors.
In reply to Post #23
carp just blow my mind. the one thing that always sits in my head, we can spend years developing new baits, testing new mixes and feeling so confident that this new mix will provide all the nutrition and have all these attractors that will make carp feed and up our chances. then you put 6 grains of sweetcorn in the edge and watch carp go mad for it ignoring your bait that youve spent all this time developing
.
carp just blow my mind. the one thing that always sits in my head, we can spend years developing new baits, testing new mixes and feeling so confident that this new mix will provide all the nutrition and have all these attractors that will make carp feed and up our chances. then you put 6 grains of sweetcorn in the edge and watch carp go mad for it ignoring your bait that youve spent all this time developing
.
How many straight talking successful anglers catching history fish do you hear putting it down to powders/oils/liquids in a hookbait?
Possibly Frank W, but he has built a career on it and we know he loves a good story. Most capture stories follow the same logical process. Watch for them, figure out where they will be, find them, feed them over an extended period, put some bait in front of them at the right time, catch them. By that point whether the ball closest to your hook has Black Pepper Essential oil in is irrelevant, the work you put in leading up to that caught the fish.
It's no doubt a fun and interesting hobby making hookbaits, i do it myself, but I think their actual impact is vastly exaggerated today and that is fed by the hordes of people trying to turn a coin out of it.
Possibly Frank W, but he has built a career on it and we know he loves a good story. Most capture stories follow the same logical process. Watch for them, figure out where they will be, find them, feed them over an extended period, put some bait in front of them at the right time, catch them. By that point whether the ball closest to your hook has Black Pepper Essential oil in is irrelevant, the work you put in leading up to that caught the fish.
It's no doubt a fun and interesting hobby making hookbaits, i do it myself, but I think their actual impact is vastly exaggerated today and that is fed by the hordes of people trying to turn a coin out of it.
In reply to Post #25
I agree to an extent. If you get the angling situation right the hookbait attractors becomes largely irrelevant imo. That doesn't stop me from using what I think is the best hookbait for the situation though.
Even for singles I think color and buoyancy are just as important as any attractors.
I agree to an extent. If you get the angling situation right the hookbait attractors becomes largely irrelevant imo. That doesn't stop me from using what I think is the best hookbait for the situation though.
Even for singles I think color and buoyancy are just as important as any attractors.
In reply to Post #25
How many straight talking successful anglers catching history fish do you hear putting it down to powders/oils/liquids in a hookbait?
NONE, to Not many, and those anglers would probably have caught them, using anything, as they were doing good angling, but as they are sponsored by bait companies, piling in loads of standard bottom baits and those are the best bait they have ever used to date, until the next new bait
How many straight talking successful anglers catching history fish do you hear putting it down to powders/oils/liquids in a hookbait?
NONE, to Not many, and those anglers would probably have caught them, using anything, as they were doing good angling, but as they are sponsored by bait companies, piling in loads of standard bottom baits and those are the best bait they have ever used to date, until the next new bait
In reply to Post #28
I have mingled with many of the “names” trust me, they are not using bulk standard hookbaits off the shelf!
I have mingled with many of the “names” trust me, they are not using bulk standard hookbaits off the shelf!
In reply to Post #27
Scaley If you choose to dismiss the theory then that's fine as we all have our own views. Me personally, I spend a lot of time fishing over zero or very little bait so I want mine to work on many levels. And it catches me enough to fish to realise that you should be using things that offer more than just mulberry flavouring! Push the commercial part to one side, would you leave a piece of sweet corn out for 48 hours at 170 yards on a Cray infested or roach filled lake?
Scaley If you choose to dismiss the theory then that's fine as we all have our own views. Me personally, I spend a lot of time fishing over zero or very little bait so I want mine to work on many levels. And it catches me enough to fish to realise that you should be using things that offer more than just mulberry flavouring! Push the commercial part to one side, would you leave a piece of sweet corn out for 48 hours at 170 yards on a Cray infested or roach filled lake?
In reply to Post #28
Danny F, will obviously make his own pop up polaris hookbaits, if he wants, as he is sponsored by mainline.
Danny F, will obviously make his own pop up polaris hookbaits, if he wants, as he is sponsored by mainline.
In reply to Post #30
Keeperboy, I enjoy your thought provoking posts, I am very much on your wave length here.
Think people have misunderstood what I meant, which was that many names, or normal anglers claim to have caught big Fish over lots, often kilos, of the latest wonder bait FREEBIES, say like mainline Cell, sticky Krill, etc, but, and this is a big BUT, and keeperboy you will know this is going on big time, the actually bait on the hook is totally different to the bait that they 'claim' to have caught it on, very often a special hookbait by a non sponsor company, or a tiger nut, LOL.
I believe and understands the only way to really test a hookbait is to fish it, like you do.. spend a lot of time fishing over zero or very little bait in the real world.
I believe in the elevated natural attractor/food value line of thought in pop up baits, but like most I have caught on low/mid/high nutritional baits over decades.
Keeperboy, I enjoy your thought provoking posts, I am very much on your wave length here.
Think people have misunderstood what I meant, which was that many names, or normal anglers claim to have caught big Fish over lots, often kilos, of the latest wonder bait FREEBIES, say like mainline Cell, sticky Krill, etc, but, and this is a big BUT, and keeperboy you will know this is going on big time, the actually bait on the hook is totally different to the bait that they 'claim' to have caught it on, very often a special hookbait by a non sponsor company, or a tiger nut, LOL.
I believe and understands the only way to really test a hookbait is to fish it, like you do.. spend a lot of time fishing over zero or very little bait in the real world.
I believe in the elevated natural attractor/food value line of thought in pop up baits, but like most I have caught on low/mid/high nutritional baits over decades.
In reply to Post #32
Oh yes mate
I dare say that even British records have been claimed on company Xs bait but in reality it was a maggot! 😂
Have you noticed how many sponsored anglers are always using maggot tipped baits and piling in monster particles 😉 it just shows a lack of confidence in the baits they are made to use. I could tell many many stories of exactly what you mention but it is of no use to any of us. What I don't understand is why they shouldn't just say the truth “this one fell for a tigernut”.
I saw a large carp a few weeks back landed on a pop up that a friend of mine helped unhook and actually saw the worm hanging from its lip!
Wish I had a worm growing business 😂
Oh yes mate
I dare say that even British records have been claimed on company Xs bait but in reality it was a maggot! 😂
Have you noticed how many sponsored anglers are always using maggot tipped baits and piling in monster particles 😉 it just shows a lack of confidence in the baits they are made to use. I could tell many many stories of exactly what you mention but it is of no use to any of us. What I don't understand is why they shouldn't just say the truth “this one fell for a tigernut”.
I saw a large carp a few weeks back landed on a pop up that a friend of mine helped unhook and actually saw the worm hanging from its lip!
Wish I had a worm growing business 😂