I've bought freezer baits for year's (mainline). Recently I've had sticky frozen and shelf Life.
To be fair I've not noticed any advantages on either.
Are the ingredients today safer/better than 20 odd years ago when you'd scoff at shelf life?
I know the purist's and masterbaiters won't touch ready mades, however I've caught and blanked with no significant differences with freezer or shelf life boilies
Cheers Mike
To be fair I've not noticed any advantages on either.
Are the ingredients today safer/better than 20 odd years ago when you'd scoff at shelf life?
I know the purist's and masterbaiters won't touch ready mades, however I've caught and blanked with no significant differences with freezer or shelf life boilies
Cheers Mike
In reply to Post #1
These days shelf life are very good , I have not noticed any difference either.
These days shelf life are very good , I have not noticed any difference either.
In reply to Post #1
You mention Mainline and I think it is worth noting that their most successful baits are only available as freezer baits. This suggests to me that they cannot replicate these baits as shelflife...which should make us think.
Other companies sell baits in both versions, shelflife and freezer. Now it might be my suspicious nature with the bait and tackle industry but I suspect that both versions are probably identical, ie all shelflife but some badged as freezer. Just think of the saving only having to make one recipe and not having to store the baits in a freezer until the point of sale to the public, ie the tackle shop.
Off course I might be completely wrong on this.
You mention Mainline and I think it is worth noting that their most successful baits are only available as freezer baits. This suggests to me that they cannot replicate these baits as shelflife...which should make us think.
Other companies sell baits in both versions, shelflife and freezer. Now it might be my suspicious nature with the bait and tackle industry but I suspect that both versions are probably identical, ie all shelflife but some badged as freezer. Just think of the saving only having to make one recipe and not having to store the baits in a freezer until the point of sale to the public, ie the tackle shop.
Off course I might be completely wrong on this.
In reply to Post #3
I've had this " conspiracy theory" a while too
I've had this " conspiracy theory" a while too
I think there's a world of difference between a short shelf life and a full on preserved s51tter biscuit. I had some shelf life baits from a major manufacturer in a bucket for five years that I'd completely forgotten about. They still looked exactly the same as when I put them in there. I'd never use shelf life baits out of choice.
I think the difference nowadays is negligible to be quite frank, shelf life's of the modern ilk are nothing like they used to be, that also seemed to be the concensus on here when the topic came up a while back. I was talking to, maybe Jason at DNA, or was it someone else, in any case whoever it was said to see modern shelf life's as short shelf.
Personally I'd use either, but being of a certain age if I was fishing for a hard target fish the shelf v frozen would pop up in my mind, probably my own insecurity based on past opinions of shelf being less desirable, and then I'd forget about it
Personally I'd use either, but being of a certain age if I was fishing for a hard target fish the shelf v frozen would pop up in my mind, probably my own insecurity based on past opinions of shelf being less desirable, and then I'd forget about it
In reply to Post #3
Mainline do Cell in shelflife,is that not their most successful bait
Mainline do Cell in shelflife,is that not their most successful bait
In reply to Post #3
Which of their best sellers haven't they released as a shelf life?
Which of their best sellers haven't they released as a shelf life?
In reply to Post #7
You are correct they do now but I doubt it's anywhere near as good as the freezer bait. The original cell and active8 were once both active baits, no idea if the current versions are. You cannot have an active shelflife bait so the shelflife versions have to be different.
You are correct they do now but I doubt it's anywhere near as good as the freezer bait. The original cell and active8 were once both active baits, no idea if the current versions are. You cannot have an active shelflife bait so the shelflife versions have to be different.
In reply to Post #9
A good bait in both forms is still a good bait
As a man who only ever used freezer bait in the past I would never think to buy a shelf life.
But over the years I have had to use our shelf life's when I'm fishing the far side of Europe and beyond and it's opened my eyes to how good they can be.
I have seen some good anglers swap to shelf life in recent years and none of them have seen a demise in results.
But........why oh why can't anglers just make a tiny bit more effort, make a bit more room
In the freezer and remove any doubts and use freezer baits? I think that technically a freezer bait works faster, is softer, retains moisture. It will let bacteria grow and it will turn quickly if you have nice things in the basemix and use eggs. It's no surprise some of the best baits out there turn white very quickly! The amount of people that ring me up happy when the bait starts turning after 3 days is a sign that many people have forgotten about proper fresh bait!
So for the U.K. I'd say fresh bait. For travels beyond and if your lifestyle doesn't allow it then use a good shelf life!
A good bait in both forms is still a good bait
As a man who only ever used freezer bait in the past I would never think to buy a shelf life.
But over the years I have had to use our shelf life's when I'm fishing the far side of Europe and beyond and it's opened my eyes to how good they can be.
I have seen some good anglers swap to shelf life in recent years and none of them have seen a demise in results.
But........why oh why can't anglers just make a tiny bit more effort, make a bit more room
In the freezer and remove any doubts and use freezer baits? I think that technically a freezer bait works faster, is softer, retains moisture. It will let bacteria grow and it will turn quickly if you have nice things in the basemix and use eggs. It's no surprise some of the best baits out there turn white very quickly! The amount of people that ring me up happy when the bait starts turning after 3 days is a sign that many people have forgotten about proper fresh bait!
So for the U.K. I'd say fresh bait. For travels beyond and if your lifestyle doesn't allow it then use a good shelf life!
I can only get chelf life baits here & I won't use them apart from occasional hookbaits.
While shelf life baits have the same nutritional makeup, adding a preservative is detrimental IMO.
this is because the preservative is added to stop bacteria growing on / in the bait & even though it stops the baits going off, it may not be as good for the fish.
there are a hell of a lot of scientific papers published that state bacteria included in their feed is highly beneficial to them with increased immunity, better gut health, improved growth rates & lower oxidation effects than feeds without it included...
While shelf life baits have the same nutritional makeup, adding a preservative is detrimental IMO.
this is because the preservative is added to stop bacteria growing on / in the bait & even though it stops the baits going off, it may not be as good for the fish.
there are a hell of a lot of scientific papers published that state bacteria included in their feed is highly beneficial to them with increased immunity, better gut health, improved growth rates & lower oxidation effects than feeds without it included...
In reply to Post #9
Mainline cell is an active bait , really.? What makes it active.?
Mainline cell is an active bait , really.? What makes it active.?
In reply to Post #1
Shelf-life baits are all I use these days, if using a decent firm they are completely different to the baits 30+ years ago.
The ones I've used from a number of firms have been soft & also turn if a small amount of water is added and warm.
Being able to watch the fish ripping up the bottom over & over is enough for me to be confident & results have been good.
I don't use loads and I understand it's a leap of faith for many including myself but I've been pleasantly surprised.
Shelf-life baits are all I use these days, if using a decent firm they are completely different to the baits 30+ years ago.
The ones I've used from a number of firms have been soft & also turn if a small amount of water is added and warm.
Being able to watch the fish ripping up the bottom over & over is enough for me to be confident & results have been good.
I don't use loads and I understand it's a leap of faith for many including myself but I've been pleasantly surprised.
In reply to Post #12
Depends how far you want to take it - i'd say the minimum requirement for the label 'active' would, to be water soluble then that takes you down many paths
Depends how far you want to take it - i'd say the minimum requirement for the label 'active' would, to be water soluble then that takes you down many paths
In reply to Post #14
Surely active means there is some sort of reaction going on , like the use of enzymes.?
Surely active means there is some sort of reaction going on , like the use of enzymes.?
In reply to Post #15
If something is water soluble then it would be reACTing with the water giving off some kind of signal whether thats an eat me signal or not.
But like i say that leads you down many paths regarding P.h, amino acids, enzymes e.t.c loads of good info on here.
The term 'active' was a very good (although correct) marketing name
If something is water soluble then it would be reACTing with the water giving off some kind of signal whether thats an eat me signal or not.
But like i say that leads you down many paths regarding P.h, amino acids, enzymes e.t.c loads of good info on here.
The term 'active' was a very good (although correct) marketing name
In reply to Post #16
But Mainline cell is not water soluble.
But Mainline cell is not water soluble.
In reply to Post #17
It will have some water soluble components like most baits be it amino acids , sugars, salts, liquid additives, taste enhancers e.t.c
I was just highlighting in your original question that the use of the term 'active' doesnt really mean much without context as most baits are active to great or lesser degree.
It will have some water soluble components like most baits be it amino acids , sugars, salts, liquid additives, taste enhancers e.t.c
I was just highlighting in your original question that the use of the term 'active' doesnt really mean much without context as most baits are active to great or lesser degree.
In reply to Post #17
define soluble?
there is 100% soluble (nothing left) or 0% (still the same)
there are a hell of a lot of things that fall into partly soluble where some of it dissolves into water but not all of it.
define soluble?
there is 100% soluble (nothing left) or 0% (still the same)
there are a hell of a lot of things that fall into partly soluble where some of it dissolves into water but not all of it.
In reply to Post #12
Yeast, or at least it did.
Yeast, or at least it did.
In reply to Post #20
I would have thought any yeasts in boilies were the inert kind, used for the cell wall structure but essentially dead. If you add warm water to say Brocacell like you would live bread yeast, it won't do anything. Can you imagine what would happen to the boilies in the bag if the yeast was active on a hot day. You'd open the bag to find a load of exploded mush.
I would have thought any yeasts in boilies were the inert kind, used for the cell wall structure but essentially dead. If you add warm water to say Brocacell like you would live bread yeast, it won't do anything. Can you imagine what would happen to the boilies in the bag if the yeast was active on a hot day. You'd open the bag to find a load of exploded mush.
In reply to Post #21
Inert in respect to turning sugar into alcohol. Although, some people believe that ‘dead' yeasts such as brewers and brocacel still create a low level of fermentation, particularly in contact with water and sugars in the bait.
It's known that bacteria feed on yeast and yeast cultures, this would make a bait ‘active' in the right conditions.
The original Cell bait certainly turned. We are back to what people class as ‘active'
Inert in respect to turning sugar into alcohol. Although, some people believe that ‘dead' yeasts such as brewers and brocacel still create a low level of fermentation, particularly in contact with water and sugars in the bait.
It's known that bacteria feed on yeast and yeast cultures, this would make a bait ‘active' in the right conditions.
The original Cell bait certainly turned. We are back to what people class as ‘active'
In reply to Post #22
I would say bacteria feed on most baits.
I would say bacteria feed on most baits.
In reply to Post #23
Of course, bacteria are ubiquitous.
Of course, bacteria are ubiquitous.
Most baits these days are made with completely shelf life Ingredients aren't they? Other than
the eggs
We use shelf life hook baits, shelf life pellets, i don't really see why boilies should be any different. i do agree there is a period with some fresh baits that just as they start to turn they are superior, but it's a very fine window, maybe 12 hours, it's very difficult to manage on the bank
I used frozen when rules dictate, but I'm very happy with shelf life else where amd have seen no difference
the eggs
We use shelf life hook baits, shelf life pellets, i don't really see why boilies should be any different. i do agree there is a period with some fresh baits that just as they start to turn they are superior, but it's a very fine window, maybe 12 hours, it's very difficult to manage on the bank
I used frozen when rules dictate, but I'm very happy with shelf life else where amd have seen no difference
I make the question a bit simpler.
If I am able to apply bait regularly and it's my main water then I would use only the best bait, which I believe is fresh / frozen.
If I am going to catch fish on a day ticket, busy club water or fishing singles / very few baits I'm OK with shelf life's.
If you don't have freezer space or for other reasons just use shelf life's they will work, but for me there will always be a compromise- even if that is just in my head.
If I am able to apply bait regularly and it's my main water then I would use only the best bait, which I believe is fresh / frozen.
If I am going to catch fish on a day ticket, busy club water or fishing singles / very few baits I'm OK with shelf life's.
If you don't have freezer space or for other reasons just use shelf life's they will work, but for me there will always be a compromise- even if that is just in my head.
My issue with shelf life bait is that it is often not clear how the baits are being preserved. People only seem to care that they are soft.
If they are using the same ingredients but just being dried out a bit more, maybe a coat of vegetable glycerine then I would be happy to feed that bait.
Many bait makers claim something like very low levels of a human food grade preservative. I want to know what that is and has it been tested to be proven to be safe for the fish. Fish aren't humans and that preservative is a chemical that may have a detrimental effect on the health/life span of the fish.
I've read/heard (Dave Moore?) that even the preservatives deemed as ok by bait makers can have an effect on the gut mechanisms and nutritional uptake of a bait. If that is the case I don't want to feed it.
Giving up a draw in my freezer to keep 10KG of quality fresh frozen, preservative free bait is fine with me.
If they are using the same ingredients but just being dried out a bit more, maybe a coat of vegetable glycerine then I would be happy to feed that bait.
Many bait makers claim something like very low levels of a human food grade preservative. I want to know what that is and has it been tested to be proven to be safe for the fish. Fish aren't humans and that preservative is a chemical that may have a detrimental effect on the health/life span of the fish.
I've read/heard (Dave Moore?) that even the preservatives deemed as ok by bait makers can have an effect on the gut mechanisms and nutritional uptake of a bait. If that is the case I don't want to feed it.
Giving up a draw in my freezer to keep 10KG of quality fresh frozen, preservative free bait is fine with me.
In reply to Post #27
Unless you are making your own then you will never know what is added / amounts to your baits regardless of what your told, it will always come down to trust, observations & results, not just if the baits are soft but they are different to the ones available many years ago.
I thought the main preservative used was Potassium Sorbate amongst others, plenty of research been done on it Mice etc and has been found to reduce gut bacteria I believe.
AA Baits website say's it's been tested as safe to use in an aquatic environment.
How would we know that all sorts of stuff in our baits is safe & tested on fish and possible long term effects? We don't.
If worried then I'd advise anyone to contact their bait maker and ask, they should be forthcoming.
Unless you are making your own then you will never know what is added / amounts to your baits regardless of what your told, it will always come down to trust, observations & results, not just if the baits are soft but they are different to the ones available many years ago.
I thought the main preservative used was Potassium Sorbate amongst others, plenty of research been done on it Mice etc and has been found to reduce gut bacteria I believe.
AA Baits website say's it's been tested as safe to use in an aquatic environment.
How would we know that all sorts of stuff in our baits is safe & tested on fish and possible long term effects? We don't.
If worried then I'd advise anyone to contact their bait maker and ask, they should be forthcoming.
In reply to Post #27
there are LOADS of published science papers on gut bacteria in carp & the ingredients that enhance them.
re vegetable glycerine - the only tiger nuts I can get over here are from decathlon & they are shelfies that use this stuff & straight out of the bag, I struggle to get a bite on them. I actually have to completely go through the preparation process again - to make them effective
there are LOADS of published science papers on gut bacteria in carp & the ingredients that enhance them.
re vegetable glycerine - the only tiger nuts I can get over here are from decathlon & they are shelfies that use this stuff & straight out of the bag, I struggle to get a bite on them. I actually have to completely go through the preparation process again - to make them effective
In reply to Post #28
I have to use shelf life baits now, as I no longer have a bait freezer. In my experience baits that are preserved with potassium sorbate, and have an extended drying time, will last for several months, if kept in a relatively cool place and away from moisture. I've not had a problem catching on these baits. Not saying freezer baits wouldn't be better. Just that shelf life baits work well. I normally give them a swirl with 10ml of the relevant liquid per kilo the day before I go.
I have to use shelf life baits now, as I no longer have a bait freezer. In my experience baits that are preserved with potassium sorbate, and have an extended drying time, will last for several months, if kept in a relatively cool place and away from moisture. I've not had a problem catching on these baits. Not saying freezer baits wouldn't be better. Just that shelf life baits work well. I normally give them a swirl with 10ml of the relevant liquid per kilo the day before I go.
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