Hello

I am looking for some captive back leads similar to the fox ones.

I used to use the fox ones but I find they don't always release.

I see Gardner do a similar lead with a better design in my opinion but they seem out of stock everywhere apart from a few on ebay.

Is there anything else available?

In reply to Post #1
I had same issue, end up taking the leads off and making my own.
Had 3 old adjustable line clips so drilled holes in some flat pear leads and glued the clips in.
Never had a problem since

In reply to Post #1
You need to persevere with the fox ones as they are excellent provided you do the following -

1 - Ensure that the latch gates aren't corroded / gunked up with mud / dirt / weed and can easily open

2 - Obvs ensure there is no heavy weed / blanket weed / silkweed around where you place the backlead

3 - Preferably fish single sticks / ensure lines are pointing in direction of lead etc

4 - If using a pod never position lines too far left - the latches open from right to left so anything right hand orientated is usually ok as the latch can open however if fishing far left (eg at right angles to the rod tip) the line will pull into the left hand 'armpit' of the latch and may not release

5 - Play with how far past the rod tip the captive lead is set. This depends on water depth directly below the rod tip but as a general rule of thumb the latch will release quicker / earlier the closer to the tip you place it (directly down) You can position it slightly 'behind' the tip for an instant release (on the take) or slightly in front (eg 2-3ft) but any further in-front and you run the risk of lifting the backlead on the take before it releases / tangles with the cord as you attempt to flick it off / bumped fish etc

6 - Go for the heaviest lead variant possible and don't fish with slack lines - once the lead is lowered ensure everything is taught and that indicators are only dropped semi slack style

On suitable waters these are a great product and have caught loads of fish in conjunction with additional sliding backleads where appropriate . . . because you cannot lose them they also last forever!

In reply to Post #3
Very good explanation/guide and tips 👍
Can't remember what Ounce weight I bought but immediately thought the heavier ones would maybe work better
Used to end up playing fish with it just bouncing about on the line hence why I made my own

In reply to Post #3
I also put 3ft of anti tangle tube on mine, now they work perfect.
Got the 2oz and the 4oz. Heavier are better but you have to be carefull not to move your rig.

In reply to Post #3
7. Watch out for the bloody pike in the margins 😭

Twice I had a pike take my backlead. Once it was 120 yards of braid out in the water took me ages to get it back.

In reply to Post #3
Good answer and tips. I am wedded to backleads and try and get them as far out as possible - but I have captive ones (mcf and fox) and would like to use, to follow up your comments - any tips on below;

If you have a marginal shelf drop off, I assume they are not as effective as you want them as close to rod tips as possible to work?

What do people use for in the main?

Getting lined down to ensure clear area for playing fish close in?
Or
Getting the line down to follow bottom contours?

I can absolutely see their use on gradual sloping lakes, but question if they are useful for the ups and downs of some lakes?

In reply to Post #7
If you have a marginal shelf you need to ensure the length of captive braid is set long enough to accommodate the depth below the tips etc - you can only ascertain this by chucking it out / feeling it down or marking up first etc. If its a 20' drop off then they're probably not usable but a 10'-12' margin is more than doable. You could also try moving your rods back / tips closer to the lake edge to mitigate the drop etc

Personally only use any back leads on bowls or where there are minimal humps and bumps between rod tip and lead; however at relative range this is somewhat irrelevant as you probably only want the final 20' pinned down (flying backleads good for this)

I cant be arsed with the faff of slack lines at any range (unless its literally a near margin ) and prefer a tightish / semi slack set up; in this instance the captives help with getting everything on the deck quickly and on a 'direct' line to the hookbait (being careful not to move the actual rig lead). Whilst they do help with line pickup to a certain degree there is nothing worse than a fish crossing lines with ANY backlead on; its a recipe for major tangles / disaster and on this basis and especially in tight swims / using a pod / buzz bars I will always sink the tips on the other rods completely (position reels in the alarm head itself) prior to playing fish close in . . .

In reply to Post #3
Very well said.
One other thing is to fish with a line clip as that helps it to come off.

I have used them since they came out and it's a learning curve getting used to them .

I fish two lakes with alot of boat activity and although they get on my nerves they can turn the fish on so if you can keep your lines out you can catch extra fish.

In reply to Post #9
Also with regard to the fox ones

Flick the rod tip slightly and gently upwards if it hasn't released whilst holding a finger on the spool if you have the clutch set really loose.
Not a strike, it really is just a little flick and the tension will open the latch
I do find that just holding the line and getting tension between fish and the finger tends to open it with the rod lower

In reply to Post #1
Been using the fox ones for years now had no problems with them mostly to stop swans getting caught in my lines from people feeding them up and down the bank

Back leads are ok if your reason for using them is to keep the lines away from birds or when playing fish.

Otherwise, I find they cause far more problems than they solve.

If it's a presentation thing, when the rods out and on the sticks, tighten up the line a bit, then pull a few feet of line off and allow it to settle, you'll notice the line pull tight again. That's where it's sinking.

This all depends on algae, undertow and indicator weights obviously. But definitely gives you a better presentation around the lead end of the line

In reply to Post #1
As mentioned the fox ones are fine, if used correctly as detailed below they are very handy for a few different situations. Fishing extremely tight lines with rod tips pulling down is a technique that not many employ.

In reply to Post #1
Try to get the older version fox captive backleads off eBay.

The clip on the lead is at an angle and comes off much better...as has been mentioned earlier a quick flick of the rod tip and they drop off every time.

I use the fox captives in an awful lot of my fishing mainly in conjunction with a running set up with a two thirds of an ounce lead and very slack lines indeed draped across the lakebed.

In reply to Post #14
In my experience fishing slacks with these is a bit counterproductive but each to their own - the mainline can get looped behind the lead and create tangles . . .that's also why you're having to flick the leads off on a take which again (and I've had personal experience of this) can create a situation where the cord crosses over the line at which point you have a 'mare on your hands especially with a fish on . . .if set up correctly the gate should either open on the take / run or release as soon as you pick up the rod / lift the tip slightly . . .

All these anglers stating ways to make the Fox back leads disengage. Clearly none of you have ever had the fish of a lifetime on with a Fox captive back lead swinging about on the line in front of the rod tip.... Clearly none of you have ever used the Gardner ones. If you had, you would never be recommending those shocking Fox things.

I use back leads a lot, constantly used them on the Thames for 30 years. I've used them all. For donkeys years the Fox were the only ones available... I preferred to use a paper clip. They are terrible.

The Gardner ones have a bobbin clip on the top. Like a bigger version of the old solar bobbin clips. They are fail proof, you set your own tension. Never mess around with something like a captive back lead that does not come off properly.

Flick the rod tip to make a back lead come off when I have a 50+ charging about? Leave it out 😂

In reply to Post #16
Wow clearly I've been using the original fox ones since they came out all wrong.

(never lost a fish because of them...ever)

I'll get off to the tackle shop today and get some of the Gardner ones and get mine on ebay.

In reply to Post #17
Good luck to you. The product is absolutely terrible. Well done for overcoming the products shortcomings. That latch does not disengage properly, as is shown by comments in this thread. Anglers bang on about fish safety. In the wrong (novice) hands those Fox captive back leads are actually shockingly dangerous.

How to tie three lines up in knots whilst you have a carp on.

In reply to Post #14
Quote... The clip on the lead is at an angle and comes off much better...as has been mentioned earlier a quick flick of the rod tip and they drop off every time.

That's your own comments. Come off ‘better'? A quick flick of the rod tip whilst you have a big carp on?

I see the most stupid advice given out on this forum all of the time, daily, and just ignore it, I don't get involved.

Sometimes you just gotta say something though. Sorry if that upsets you.

I really don't like back leads at all, preferring to use running leads and slack lines, but sometimes it is not possible to fish this way.

With back leads bite indication is definitely reduced, but under boats it is sometimes the only way.

To me as Tcarper has pointed out, a captive back lead must release. This is no place for fancy gated line clips, they MUST be a simple free flow indicator clip like the Gardner Free Flow or Tackle Box Hardball line clips.

In fact, simply look at Gardner Captive Back leads.

Just looked at the Gardner ones
The clips are basically the same as I used of some old Fox bobbins to make my own as per my earlier comment
Can't do pics on here

In reply to Post #21
You did something similar to me i also made mine with flat pear lead drilled through it and put 2ba c/s screw in it then attached adjustable solar line clip to it via small barrel i made myself worked a lot better than the captive fox lead it replaced

In reply to Post #18
They have a particular use and cant always be used 100% effectively in every situation, use them in the right situation and they work as intended. I had to use them on a water with boats on and certainly had some teething issues but certainly didn't lose any fish or create any dangerous situations with them and don't recall anyone having any major issues.

There's a lot more potential issues and dangers from anglers setting their gear dangerously and from what i've seen, captive back leads would not be high up on the list.

Too light a back lead and shallow water can be one reason why the latch might not release instantly, so you do have to think about why you want to use them and how to fish with them effectively in yr swim.

In reply to Post #19
Totally agree with you - the latch MUST release on the take every time and with minimal faff - you certainly do NOT want to have to flick anything off; if you are doing this then you've set them up wrong and you're asking for a disaster

I've lost decent fish when I first started playing with these back in the day - HOWEVER . . . . if you follow the guide I've listed then actually they are a DECENT product.

I can see why you wouldn't use these on rivers unless fishing when the downstream flow is from left to right - if fishing downstream from the opposite bank you'll be fishing against the latch and therefore run the risk of 'no release'

Gardner captives look a little light at 1.25/2oz - Carp Spirit do a similar 3oz version with a ball stop clip (if you're worried about the latch) and includes the cord like the fox variant - main thing re fishing and using any product is to USE YOUR BRAIN . . .