It's time for another 9000+ views thread, it's gone a little stale in here. (then again maybe the viewers are more interested in Matt Hancock and I'm a Celebrity than the NHS ) how very 2023 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is the NHS fit for purpose?

Still free despite what the Left peddle, its not being privatised, independent sources confirm this.

But do a little digging and you'll find the truth, babies needlessly dieing, the current aids and blood transfusion scandal and the billions £ spent every year on compensation claims, yes thats right tax payers billions payed out in part because foreign workers with false papers and qualifications are working on you're nearest and dearest, dont complain though because it ticked the right box in Harringay and Barrow. And of course they'll play the racist card 🙄


Consultants earning thousands privately on the side. It's not lack of money it's just managed badly internally.
Not to mention the killer nurse currently going through the judicial system.

£70k salaries for diversity managers, too many managers full stop.

A topic the Left like to stand on but is it fit for purpose in 2023?

And another thing, NHS workers moaning about the pandemic reminded me of soilders being interviewed saying they did'nt join up thinking they'ed ever be shot at/or in a war during the 1st Gulf War.
I remember my grandad saying the same about WW2 35 years ago, but he didnt drip about it according to my old man, he did his bit for the country and made a great life off the back of service, but then again he wasnt a sick Left Wing parasite looking for a 19% payrise. Lets pay a fair rate to all but not bow to the parasitic Left.

Just facts, just the facts.



It's never let me down and I decline free company Bupa health care because of this.

In reply to Post #1
It's not lack of money it's just managed badly internally.

I think that is the real answer

Well,my nearest hospital means a nr 100 mile round trip..yes nearly 100 mile..

We have no NHS ,dentists at all..round my way ,we did have one,once though..!

But recently ,I had some bad times,won't go into it but wernt good ..saw the doc ,within two days,second opinion from another doc .

Small op ,two weeks later,..100 mile round trip,..treated the problem ,treated with respect ..all sorted..

It seems to work ,but I hear lots of things about a manager for a manager and so on.

Y'know what they say don't get ill ,don't lose your job and above all don't go 15 mins to Oxford. !

In reply to Post #2
Spot on, so bad the public would be horrified but it's about the only thing along with the education system the Left have to use as a rallying cry, both heavily Left instatutions.
I vaguely remember a tv program where they put a top businessman into a trust and he was staggered by the miss management and waste.

It's a pity there aren't more like you that see the picture 👍

In reply to Post #3
All those managers vote Labour, the Left don't want it fixed they'd lose votes, equally they don't want you to know the truth because that's a forever vote loser.

It's in such a bad state now because it was underfunded in the *first place* - everybody knows that.
Today..... it's in a deep hole that's getting deeper.
Right now it's understaffed, relying on overseas.
The government should give *applicable* staff \ future staff (guys\gals on the 'front line') what they deserve, instead of being World Chearleaders for Ukraine.
Plus, badly run - too much bureaucracy for one - as you highlighted Teddy' , money going in the wrong places.

In reply to Post #6
Apparently 2.4 billion paid out in negligence claims in 20/21
Underfunded hmm possibly
Mismanaged yes.

Unfortunately it's the NHS front line people who get it in the neck and suffer because everyone takes it out on them.
The overpaid underworked managers sit in the back rooms playing poker with everyone's lives as the deck of cards.

In reply to Post #1
Dear Teddy bare.... please. Seek professional help. That is all.

In reply to Post #8
See you there👍

In reply to Post #8
on the NHS?

In reply to Post #7
"How much do medical negligence claims cost the NHS?
According to NHS Resolution, the estimated ‘cost of harm' to the NHS in 2021/22 is £13.6 billion, which includes legal costs. This does not include the ‘hidden costs' of investigating these claims."

2020/21 £7.9 billion.

"The annual cost of harm arising from clinical activity during 2019/20 covered by the Clinical Negligence Scheme for Trusts was £8.3 billion in 2019/20, reducing from £8.8 billion for 2018/19."

NHS Resolution's provision at 31 March 2022 increased from £85.2 billion to £128.6 billion. £42.6 billion of the increase arises from a change to the HM Treasury long-term discount rates, an accounting estimate which places a value in today's prices on liabilities that are expected to fall due for settlement in the future.

Just the facts.

Here's the profit model aspired to by many.

According to a recent study by Johns Hopkins, more than 250,000 people in the United States die every year because of medical mistakes, making it the third leading cause of death after heart disease and cancer.

Wonder what the total amount of deaths would be if you added in those who couldn't afford to buy their way in to the medical system?


Just the facts....

In reply to Post #12
Where was gun death on that list?

In reply to Post #11
Fraud in the NHS is harmful to patients and staff. We will work with the NHS Counter Fraud Authority to stamp it out.” According to our latest estimate, fraud costs the NHS £1.29 billion a year - enough money to pay for over 40,000 staff nurses, 5,000 frontline ambulances or 116,000 hip replacements.

Source.....the NHS

In reply to Post #13
Your not going to get the 9000+ views you crave from your Stella infused thread with inane, irrelevant replies like that Topgun.
You'll probably need to go full retard again to jazz it up a bit.

In reply to Post #15
Unlike your good self I'm not a fan of Stella, "crave"🤣🤣🤣

So...

The basics are - the NHS is poorly managed. On a local and government level. And it's underfunded. And nurses aren't the problem but middle managers are.
.no need for 9000 posts to uncover those startling revelations eh?

In reply to Post #16
Yep crave, not to be confused with craven, which is how I'd describe you and this thread

In reply to Post #18
Bit early to be on the Stella mate, if you carry on like that you'll only end up adding yourself to the NHS workload. 👍

In reply to Post #17
It's been crap for years I remember in 2006 it nearly cost me my life because of the waiting time for a diagnosis..

I was fortunate to have had private health if I hadn't I'm not sure I'd be here today...

Paying staff more money is not the answer privatization is imho.

Also get a team in from the private sector to manage it to end the waste.

In reply to Post #20
Even true Blue Kieth has started to tell the truth about the NHS these day's.

In reply to Post #20
But.....
it was labour in power in 2006

I've private medical through work which does help you get seen quicker. I currently have cancer and the NHS (not private) fast track system is absolutely superb from diagnosis to surgery to radio/ chemo to after care. If only the rest of the NHS could perform to the same level.

In reply to Post #23
Sorry to hear that, hope you get an all clear very soon.

In reply to Post #23
Very true, I've always found the NHS next to useless, but when I got a lumpy gonad checked out I had an ultrasound and given an all clear the same day

Hope all goes well for you

In reply to Post #25
I think you've hit the nail on the head, I went through an awful spell of 12 retinal tears over a 2 year period.

Yes, it took a few hours waiting an A&E but once it had been diagnoses I was in for surgery on every occasion the following day.

My local hospital (weston super mare) now shuts overnight, since COVID if you go in with an injury such as a fracture, you get sent 15 miles up the road.

The fundamentals are still there, my father collapsed recently, following day surgery and pacemaker fitted.

The biggest issue is the front line is no longer there

In reply to Post #1
If it was a business it would have been folded ten times over in the last ten years.

Zero incentive for home grown nurses and doctors, plus there's too many chiefs and not enough indians.

In reply to Post #27
The NHS is being privatised
Myth
Some, mainly left-wing, commentators have argued for many years that the NHS is being privatised.

The facts
Private companies have always played a role in the NHS, with services such as dentistry, optical care and community pharmacy being provided by the private sector for decades, and most GP practices are private partnerships. The NHS and the private sector have also established partnerships for the delivery of clinical services such as radiology and pathology and non-clinical services such as car parking and management of buildings and the estate, while independent hospitals have been used under successive governments to provide additional capacity in response to pressures on NHS services.

Identifying how much the NHS spends on the private sector is not straightforward but estimates can be made using data from the annual accounts of the Department of Health and Social Care.

...spending by NHS commissioners on services delivered by the private sector increased to £12.2 billion in 2020/21. However... this again represents only around 7 per cent of the total Department of Health and Social Care revenue budget.

Following the Health and Social Care Act 2012, which extended market-based principles and introduced more competition into the NHS, the number of contracts awarded to private providers increased. However, this did not lead to an increase in the proportion of the NHS budget spent on private providers, in large part because the majority of contracts tended to be smaller than those awarded to NHS providers. In 2019/20, before the pandemic, NHS commissioners spent £9.7 billion, or 7.2 per cent of the Department of Health and Social Care revenue budget on services delivered by the private sector. This proportion has remained largely unchanged since 2012.

Throughout the Covid-19 pandemic, the Department of Health and Social Care and the NHS entered into new contractual arrangements with the independent hospital sector to increase capacity. These arrangements provided access to additional beds, staff and equipment to treat patients during the peak of the pandemic and are being used now in some places to support efforts to reduce how long people wait for routine care. As a result, spending by NHS commissioners on services delivered by the private sector increased to £12.2 billion in 2020/21. However, in the context of the significant additional funding provided in response to the pandemic, this again represents only around 7 per cent of the total Department of Health and Social Care revenue budget.

The Health and Care Act 2022 removed the competition and market-based approaches introduced by the 2012 Act. This gives commissioners greater flexibility over when to use competitive procurement processes, reducing the frequency with which clinical services are put out to tender and allowing contracts to be rolled over where the existing provider, most likely to be an NHS provider, is doing a good job.

Verdict
There is no evidence of widespread privatisation of NHS services. The proportion of the NHS budget spent on services delivered by the private sector has remained broadly stable over the past decade.

In reply to Post #1
Oh no, not the too many managers myth being independently assessed.

Myth
The NHS is sometimes characterised as being over-managed, inefficient and wasteful.
The facts
Measuring the productivity of the NHS over time can be difficult, as full data on the volume and quality of the outputs and outcomes the NHS produces are not always available. However, a study by the University of York's Centre for Health Economics found that NHS productivity increased by 16.5 per cent between 2004/05 and 2016/17 compared to productivity growth of only 6.7 per cent in the economy as a whole. This averaged at a year-on-year growth in productivity of 1.3 per cent.

The NHS is one of the largest and most complex organisations in the world. Yet, evidence indicates that it employs relatively few managers, with one study recently suggesting that managers make up around 2 per cent of the NHS workforce compared to 9.5 per cent of ‘managers, directors and senior officials' in the UK workforce as a whole.

The NHS compares well with other health systems, coming 4th out of 11 systems for efficiency in the Commonwealth Fund analysis.

The NHS compares well with other health systems, coming 4th out of 11 systems for efficiency in the Commonwealth Fund analysis. It also compares well on other key indicators of productivity such as the average length of stay in hospital and the proportion of drugs that are prescribed in their (cheaper) generic form instead of the (more expensive) branded version.

There is no doubt that the NHS can do more to improve productivity and reduce unwarranted variation in how services are delivered. For example, Lord Carter of Coles estimated that reducing unwarranted variation in procurement and delivery of hospital care could save around £5 billion each year. The Getting it Right First Time programme has also shown that significant gains can be made by reducing variation in the delivery of clinical services.

At the same time, the NHS is operating in a context of intense pressure on services, with high levels of staff vacancies, growing waiting times for care and very high hospital bed occupancy. These factors combine to reflect a system that is ‘running hot', with little capacity to focus on improvement and efficiencies. Against this background, the government has doubled the annual efficiency target for the service from 1.1 per cent to 2.2 percent, aiming to deliver an annual saving of £4.75 billion without setting out a plan for achieving this.

Verdict
As the former Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, Sajid Javid, said recently, the NHS is already one of the more efficient health services in the world, and evidence suggests it is far from being over-managed. While it can, and must, do more to improve productivity, it is hard to see how current efficiency targets can be met.

In reply to Post #29
"Myth
The NHS is sometimes characterised as being over-managed, inefficient and wasteful"

Myth? Lets look at the heirachy of an NHS trust in South Warwickshire for example.

Chief Executive
Managing Director
Director of Finance
Director of Nursing
Director of Development
Director of Operations
Director of Human Resources
Medical Director
Chief Technology Officer
Director Chairman
Non-Executive Director
Non-Executive Director
Nominated Non-Executive Director
Non-Executive Director
Non-Executive Director
Operational Chief Medical Officer
Non-Executive Director
Chief Strategy Officer
Chief Commissioning Officer
Non-Executive Director
Chief People Officer
Non-Executive Director

There are also an additional 5 or 6 directors in unpaid roles sticking their oar in.

https://www.swft.nhs.uk/application/files/4916/7049/5908/SWFT_Register_of_Directors_Interests_November_2022.pdf

The above is a list of their financial interests. This is the management of just ONE small NHS trust. There are 217 NHS trusts in this country.

On the NHS jobs website, there are currently 2500 Band 3 roles being sought. However, there are also 3000 Band 7 roles.

What do we need more of, Band 3 healthcare assistants taking your bloods for cancer treatment, or a director on £120k who's son is employed by Deloitte to conduct external auditing?

217 trusts. 217.

In reply to Post #30
No Director of Lived Experience then, that's £110k to £115K saved

Only directors on your list, do they have any Diversity managers @£77K ?

In reply to Post #30
You may not agree with the sentiments but it is from the same page as the 'Myth' that Teddybare used for his post. The point being that he had suggested that the NHS has too managers in his first post then used information from a source that contradicted that point of view, independent information being good enough when it aligns with his worldview, ignored when it doesn't.

In reply to Post #32
I guess it would depend on the definition of too many, I think we all know there are too many, easily seen in the post below.

Equally the NHS is still free and badly run by those internally who in the main are Left Wing, nothing associated with the Left ends well. KS knows this, he even agrees the NHS needs reform, why? Because he knows nothing associated with the Left ends well of course.


Maybe that's why all the Lefty's I've known are on the bones of their arses 🤷

Health ombudsman issues unprecedented warning over safety and culture at scandal-hit NHS trust

Two day old headline, let's all have a round of applause 👏

All they need is another 19% (what did u get?) To keep on killing u.


The hidden Left Wing scandal that they've somehow managed to make you the tax payer feel afraid to complain about.

Then again according to our little Northern Lefty we should "all be broken hearted " as they move into the private sector for more money.



But apparently the tide is turning 😁

In reply to Post #34
Can you get 'obsession with someone I've never met' treated on the NHS? you might want to investigate....

I wouldn't expect you to find the nurses account heartbreaking spinbowler. You'd have to give a **** about someone other than yourself / selves for that eh?

In reply to Post #35
If you're referring to my post I'm all for paying them more money but come on 19%!??

The problem is they want all the money both in pay and investment but don't want to change the way it works for the better.

Even a blind man can see that money isn't the answer, these heartbreaking stories of people losing loved ones through poor performance are a weekly event.

In reply to Post #36
Money isn't the answer? PPE, Michelle Mone. ****ty Hancock, Greg Hands, the artful tax dodger Zahawi, Test and trace, Johnson and his £800, 000 loan facilitated by Sharp who then gets appointed as Head of BBC. Sunaks wife's nondom status, 14 billion in furlough fraud written off, Owen Paterson. Funny how the people you support and believe in are so much about the money. And please tell us how you know more about how nurses and doctors work than they do? What changes do you suggest?

I worked in the public sector for 30 odd years and left because I was sick of working for free. And what I mean by that is the expectation to work-unpaid-around another day to complete the work load above my contracted 37 hours. Nurses (and MANY public sector workers) have done this for years at the same their wages have declined in real terms.

The newly appointed (aren't they all) Deputy Chairman of the Conservative Party
30p Lee Anderson. How he felt re the NHS before being kicked out of the Labour Party
And joining the Conservatives.

In reply to Post #38
Lefty fact check.

He wasn't kicked out of the Labour Party, he was suspended because he organised a load of boulders that stopped a load of pikey's setting up camp on a community green space, he defected to the Conservative Party as he didn't agree with the WOKE Momentum element within the party.

What is it with you Trots and lies?


The same month, in a debate on the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill, Anderson accused the Traveller community in Ashfield of thievery, stating, "...the Gypsy encampments that we are talking about in places such as Ashfield are not the traditional, old-fashioned Gypsies sat there playing the mandolin, flogging lucky heather and telling fortunes. The Travellers I am talking about are more likely to be seen leaving your garden shed at 3 o'clock in the morning, probably with your lawnmower and half of your tools. That happens every single time they come to Ashfield".[28][29] Wikipedia.

This bloke should be prime minister 👍

In reply to Post #37
I wouldn't worry about the 14 billion, we only finished paying our WW2 debt in 2006.

How do I know about nurses and doctors working? That will be via the conversations with both every other day for the last 9 weeks visiting a family member in hospital following a stroke, what do you need to know?

It took you 30 years to work out what would take me less than 12 months👍
One great thing about this country we all have access to the same education system, its what you make of it that differs.


37 hours ? You lazy sod, I've done that by Friday morning 🤣🤣 I could pull you up on some of the other rubbish in that post but I've done a 45 hour week and can't be arsed.


I'll tell you one thing though you Lefty boys are top draw comedy, this week's winner being everyone would be better off moving to Scotland, why don't the 3 or 4 of you get together and let us all know if that's for the higher taxes or the highest drug death rate in Europe amongst other things, PMSL, clueless.


Ps, I don't support any of them, I support myself/family something Lefty's seem unable to do, isn't "give me free stuff" in your manifesto?

In reply to Post #34
How often does the NHS get sued?
In 2021/22 the NHS received 15,078 claims. This equates to over 40 claims per day.

The NHS gets sued approximately once every 40 minutes!

What percentage of medical negligence claims are successful?
Of the 15,078 claims received by the NHS in 2021/2022, the number of claims that reached a settlement was 13,070.

This means that 86.7% of claims against NHS are successful in reaching a settlement.

Source NHS

"Fake doctor who worked in NHS for 20 years found guilty of fraud"

From the Guardian 2 days ago.

Yes that's right even the Guardian is now highlighting how bad their Left Wing instatution is being run internally by their own voters.

The government didn't employ this woman a badly run Left Wing NHS did.

Mal, Blackfield, Ocelot it's in your most quoted comic, must be true 👍


Heartbreaking.





Clowns to the Left of me jokers to the right...........

Oh look. Friday night and spinbowler has been on the Stella again...

Maybe this will help

https://withtherapy.com/therapist-insights/how-to-deal-with-obsessive-thoughts/

BTW....

'Tory party chairman found guilty of tax fraud' the NHS didn't employ this man... etc.

In reply to Post #40
Ha ha ha. Where to start with this? Your recent experience of a service under massive pressure does not make you an expert on how nurses and doctors work. I played a flying video game last night. I'm now in the process of applying for a job with BA as a pilot.

Then you gloat about being smart and not working for free and then in the next say you've done 37 hours by Friday morning and have done 45 hours this week. Bet you got paid for it, though..

WTF has Scotland got to do with any of this?

I agree it's what you make of education. You don't define what that means do you? I used my undergraduate and post graduate education to better myself and society. Looks like you heard plenty but didn't listen.

I've supported myself and my family all my life. This lefty has earned and paid for everything he has. Plenty of tattooed skin head types getting something from the state who have contributed little. Never met a lefty who believed in free stuff, but I see my tax pounds being gobbled up by people much wealthier than me who don't need that money, but simply revel in getting something for nothing.

You're nothing more than a pathetic troll who has zero interest in a meaningful discussion and worry you blast yourself off every night in the comfort of your bedroom in mummy's house in a pair of flying goggles to the tune of 633 squadron.

In reply to Post #43
You don't understand how forums work do you.

You don't like being put in your box either do you.

You boys seem to have a love affair with Stella, you shouldn't go round judging everyone by your low standards 😘


Actually I'd of thought you'd be praising the man's ingenuity and contribution to this country, he came to this country as a child refugee having fled Iraq with his parents (Heartbreaking)
We all know how you Leftys love a refugee especially your good self, you must be more confused than Scooby Do here 🤣🤣

In reply to Post #44
"Mummy's house" 🤣🤣 Like I said you lot are a great comedy act. 👌

Scotland? Apparently their NHS is even worse than over the border.

Your contracted hours is an interesting one, perhaps rather than striking they all refused to work beyond those contracted hours it might paint a truer picture, what do you think?

In reply to Post #15
21 of 46 post's are yours Top Gun, forum....
Let's see if going full retard on a Friday night sparks others interest in your well informed, entrenched position

In reply to Post #47
Thanks for that well constructed response mate

Is todays intake of Stella kicking in yet🤪 must be your post was the 47th not the 46th 👍

In reply to Post #48
So ocelot was counting the previous 46 posts...

As you say the education system is what people make of it... some people learn maths and how to spell institution....

In reply to Post #49
I'm educated enough to know that the word retard doesn't fit your WOKE world these days, how about you

In reply to Post #50
You offended by being labelled by a word Prof Top Gun?
Sounds extremely woke too me

In reply to Post #51
Not me mate, I'm a big hard lad.

I was thinking more about those who might not be as lucky as you and me, you know people with disabilities or those with kids with a learning disability who put up with that word as a form of bullying every day.

The trouble is you're too thick to understand, great couple of posts though, only helps to show what you and your ilk are really about.

In reply to Post #52
So you're offended on others behalf with that label? Maybe you should be checked for Cerebral arteriosclerosis if you think size and "hardness" matter..
Funny old world the anti wokism one

In reply to Post #53
I'm a caring sort of bloke 😘

In reply to Post #54
You're a clown.

In reply to Post #55
I'm no clown mate, you just don't like people standing up to you do you, you're really quite a weak man in reality.