Anyone cancelled their DD yet.......

In reply to Post #1
One things certain when spring rolls around next year there will be far fewer on the bank and the second hand market will be awash with gear.

Seen the prices of Fox's latest offerings

In reply to Post #1
Gonna cancel mine ; them robbing dogs ain't getting **** all out of me , rather sit in the dark

In reply to Post #1
Bodywarmers get them now before stock runs out 😀

Protesting / not paying -It's reminiscent of the poll tax protests and the same outcome...

This problem with Ukraine could go on for years.....I'm not sure what the final resolution is

Life isn't going to cheap for a long time now....

All the inflation rivalling pay rises some folk have managed to get are only going to further exacerbate the problem..

In reply to Post #4
Pay rises for regular working people aren't the cause of spiralling inflation...

Huge profits in the billions for companies and owners / directors / tory friends.... that's where your problems start

In reply to Post #5
Inflation - someone has to generate the money to pay for these rises.
Their will always be company directors as their are council leaders paid more than prime ministers.

Funny I don't know many poor labour MPs / peers.

Lord sainsburys a labour peer ?

In reply to Post #5
You mean the profits that help pay the Gold plated pensions you teachers get ?

In reply to Post #6
If you pay people decent wages they can spend more and feed the economy

If the money goes to the already super wealthy it just sits in their bloated bank accounts paying for their plastic wives and entitled offspring

In reply to Post #8
This is exactly how it works, paying people more results in more disposable income to spend, leading to greater Money flow in an economy, making more jobs, more money in circulation etc.

The super wealthy essentially hoard money, not distributing it through an economy and causing stagnation. along with the fact that much of the money earned is then syphoned to off shore bank accounts never to be seen in the economy that generated it.

In reply to Post #9
Simple isn't it?

The only surprising thing is the stupidity of people who can't see it and continue to facilitate those who benefit from it

In reply to Post #10
Yes

I guess we are only a couple of weeks away from
'Heating is woke'.

In reply to Post #8
What would you class as a decent wage?

In reply to Post #13
Something that means people don't have to choose between heating and eating as a start point. Especially when mps are claiming thousands in 'expenses' toward their fuel bills and enjoying heavily subsidised lunch and dinner in one of the many places to eat in Parliament ...
Something that means mothers don't have to go without a meal to feed their children instead while bosses of energy and water companies are being paid huge amounts for ripping off consumers and appalling service and government sanctioned disgraceful practices.

Any of those things would be a decent start.

In reply to Post #5
This inflation has been caused because of the Covid quantitative easing of pumping billions from fresh air into the economy and the lockdowns themselves!

What makes me laugh is the reasons we're told why prices for energy have risen........the demand after Covid being far more than before Covid.......Chuck in the Ukraine bollox and we have to pay obscene amounts.......

Why the **** the government don't fire up coal and start North Sea gas again is beyond me......

In reply to Post #15
Covid
That's not quite correct, covid stopped manufacturing worldwide, a good example the big industry I work in semiconductors or the chips that you find in everything stopped. To manufacture a semiconductor from the collection of the raw materials the fabs growing the wafers, the chips being packaged and tested typically takes 40 weeks..
At the worst most components took over a year to be delivered to customers and it's still pretty much that way.

Prices for these have doubled or trebled forcing up the prices of the end products - this was due to the massive demand - you take consumer goods, phones, tablets, computers, consoles (that were always out of stock) as everyone was stuck at home we all purchased such goods (more than we ever did before and others, interests rates were low and people bought and bought at whatever price look at property prices now - are they sustainable the price of second cars ridiculous but it's a sellers market.
So everyone spending over the odds not thinking about tomorrow.

Ukraine
50% of the worlds neon they use to etch the wafers come from Ukraine further hampering chip supply.

Now Russia turning off the gas forcing up the wholesale prices and Putin is not giving in, sanctioning more troops.

So what do we have now a slowing economy consumer demand dropping TSMC moving into oversupply.
And for us all rising interest rates - could we see a repeat of the 90s ??

So the outlook imho 2023 and first half of 2024 will be tough even for folk who've been sensible. And that's the best scenario if the war ends in the next 3 months..

Coal
About 2% of our energy comes from coal nearly half from gas. They restarted coal plants last year though their is not enough (same activity has been happening all around Europe) but it's not enough and then there the plan to switch them all off from 2024.

We've been too slow to move should have built a couple of nuclear power stations by now that's what we need, but not everyone wants one on their doorstep despite the clear economic benefits, else were in danger of going the same way as the dinosaurs....

In reply to Post #14
And what would that "something" be in cash?

In reply to Post #15
Don't pay / withhold payments, force the government to act. Just like Poll Tax.
Agree we should reopen the North Sea reserves. But the wicked witch of the North seems to think they belong to Scotland. Sooner we get rid of her the better.

In reply to Post #17
Would be dependent on where you live....

In reply to Post #17
That's just a silly question looking to provoke or undermine.

Do you have a figure in mind or are you just trying to get a 'win' ? - look around you. The country is screwed and getting worse for millions of people whilst the wealth gap continues to grow in favour of the rich.

When people in full time work can't afford basics like warmth and food then there's a real issue.

£3549 - take that as maybe ten per cent of your actual income before anything else considered. Puts you on £35 grand AFTER tax, so £40,000 plus as a gross wage. Even short sighted and out of touch Zahawi has said that people on £45,000 are going to need help. Does that number help you out?

In reply to Post #20
I merely asked you what you thought was a decent wage, simple question. And, after going all around the wrekin you've finally come up with one. Hurrah!
That is a ludicrous figure. All that will inevitably be passed on to the consumer and make matters worse. So without you getting all paranoid about people provoking you, what would be a solution to all this.?

In reply to Post #20

In reply to Post #22
That's quite the imaginary scenario that you have upset yourself with there mate.

In reply to Post #22
Millionaires living in an ex council house 😂

In reply to Post #24

In reply to Post #25
Wow. The cracks are showing already. Quite the hateful
Little rightwhinge tosspot aren't we?

I suppose we can expect a lot more of this.

In reply to Post #26

In reply to Post #27
Hateful little ****.

In reply to Post #28

In reply to Post #29
Has a kid hacked NOJ's account?

In reply to Post #25
That delkim is screaming off 🤣

In reply to Post #31
I hadn't even put the rods out.

In reply to Post #32
Completely unacceptable.....

In reply to Post #30
Quite possibly as his account is currently deleting every post he has made......

In reply to Post #34
I'd say hes just had a bad morning

In reply to Post #21
As I said, Zahawi came up with the £45,000 figure, not me.

The maths was just an illustration based on the price cap - which has already been predicted to rise again next year.

The solution is for our **** show of a government to act on wages for public sector, to stop being bought out by corporate friends, to show a bit of understanding that it's estimated that 8.9 million families will be in fuel poverty this winter... plus more that they won't do of course.

I'm no fan of Corbyn (or of labour per se with a few exceptions) but apparently he suggested a cap on company executive wages that limited them to no more than 20 times that of their lowest paid worker. So if CEO's wanted to pay themselves more they'd have to increase employees pay in line with it. There's something in there. But corrupt mp's wouldn't be able to get their backhanders so easily then would they?

There's no energy price cap on businesses in this country. The company I work for has just been informed that the energy deal that finishes in November will be replaced with one that will add £110k a month to the bill. Totally unsustainable without large price rises or cancelling future investment. Our main competitor is based in France who have decided to cap energy price rises @4%. This will give them a huge competitive advantage.

Take back control and sort it out Tories before manufacturing in this country takes another mortal blow we can all ill afford.

In reply to Post #37
How is a business supposed to just find that level of increase?

Cornwall insight predictions for next year are over £6600 for average households. I don't know many people who could just swallow that up

In reply to Post #38
Cutting jobs and putting up prices is the only option on the table Mal. Which is detrimental to UK plc.
The Tories know what needs doing but are on their holidays or spouting shyte at husting events. Wether the Dementor Truss has the appetite to swallow a bit socialism with regards energy I doubt very much. She's clearly an ideologue rather than a realist

In reply to Post #38
I'm sure all around Europe joe public are playing the same blame the politicians game for the energy crisis.

A lot of people will be working from home again me thinks and like I said below we've unpleasant times ahead.

In reply to Post #40
Think you'll find people will be hoping to do the complete opposite. Turn your heating off and get into work and use theirs will be the preferred option.

In reply to Post #41
Or go on an extended holiday to somewhere hot, the savings could pay for the holiday.

In reply to Post #41
Yes, it will be a weigh up on travel costs
15 quid per day my wife pays for that pleasure.
Her central London based firm has gone officially hybrid working .50% home/office.

As their leases come up they will be letting some buildings go.

Even arch Taskmaster Jacob Rees Mogg has admitted defeat and announced the sale of 4 Billion wort of GOVT buildings.

I guess they dont want to heat them either....

In reply to Post #43
Seems to have a lot to spout about government efficiencies. Zero about the other part of his job portfolio Brexit opportunities.....

A fire sale of national assets, who'd have thunk that was high on the Tory agenda

In reply to Post #44
Covid was the catalyst for business to reassess if they needed the office space and many are still working from home and this will not change. More offices are closing and the land being sold off for houses which we all know are needed.

Clearly the government have worked out the Ukraine Russia situation is going to take a long time to resolve so a sensible move at least they are not 🔥 more money 😀

In reply to Post #45
Pity they didn't work that out in 2014 and do something to future proof the UK from the damages of relying on globally traded commodities to keep the lights on. Whilst now 🔥 through everyone's money.

Take the sort of hard decisions a good proactive government would

In reply to Post #40
They're to blame for their inactivity in addressing the cost of living crisis, food and fuel poverty, national unrest in terms of pay inequalities.... not to mention voting to allow water companies to destroy beaches and rivers.

Not much to ask for them to do their job to 'earn' their wages and considerable pay rise and to justify the expenses that you and I contribute to ....

I'm not ok with it.

In reply to Post #46
We all knew fossil fuels were limited but very few understood that Russia has had Europe by the balls with its gas reserves for years...

And I do worry that this reliance on fossil fuels worldwide will sadly lead to the war of wars.

In reply to Post #48
Actually that was pretty clear - same as the Saudis...

In reply to Post #47
Less than half the population in the UK actually works, limit immigration make it 1 person per child ...

In reply to Post #50
Thankyou priti....

And will we be sending all the lazy born here types off to Rwanda if they don't get a job?

David Cameron's decision to cut support for home efficiency / insulation initiatives in 2013 is just another example that clearly demonstrates that he was so abjectly woeful as PM, to the detriment of us all.

Looking back to late last year, those Insulate Britian protests that everyone moaned about don't look so daft now, do they?

Next year we're going to be paying more on energy bills than we are for the NHS.

We're a failing nation - dramatic changes needed. Hopefully Truss is so bad that the people come to their senses and muller the Tories at the next GE so that we can perhaps see a Govt. that actually gives a toss about its citizens.

No Government is going to do anything apart from follow the climate change narrative which means less traffic on the roads (covid did that) use less energy (obscenely high prices will force you too) massive meat free diet push (Become a Vegan and eat ****loads of GMOs) blah blah blah blah........the world and how we all live is being deliberately changed!

In reply to Post #36
I hear where you are coming from. I'm all for nailing the energy providers with windfall taxes etc. The worry with that is at some point they will recoup that from us somewhere down the line. People seem to think in 18 months or so the cost of fuel will go down. I don't buy that, it very rarely goes back down. Couple that with people using less gas and lecky and the providers then increasing prices for the profits they've lost makes for very scary times. I'm struggling to see where the arse end of all this is. The government have to act, if they don't we have to make them. As the old saying goes " if you fight you might win, if you don't fight you'll never win."
Saw something this week about schools preparing parents for winter schooling. Telling them to provide their children with additional layers because they can't afford to have the heating on all day. FFS, this is supposed to be 2022 not 1972! 🤬

In reply to Post #52
Doubt it. Labour are so woeful that the Tories will still p*** it. I fear Labour's next decent leader is still in uni. There is bugger all on offer from that shower at the moment.

In reply to Post #54
The difference in 2022 is you can't blame the Trades Unions or the EU anymore. The real enemy of the country are hiding in plain sight. Again you get what you vote for.

In reply to Post #54
Nationalise the energy companies. This vast profiteering should not be allowed to continue.

Take it a step further; nationalise all essential amenities. People profiting from supplying water? Get out of it. Yes, there is a cost to deliver it but paying dividends to shareholders for natural resources should be treated with disdain. On my latest water bill, they charge a fortune for dealing with "waste water". Round my way, that means pumping it into the rivers and the sea. We're being mugged blind, in the name of capitalism.

In reply to Post #51
Rwanda, that showed em,
Teathing problems my arse

In reply to Post #55
Jess Phillips and zarah sultana would hand the tories their backside as leader and deputy. He'll I'd even vote Labour with those two at the helm.

On wider issues... 100000 vacancies in the NHS and the tories are spending more on recruitment for the armed forces than for nurses....

Anyone found out if Noj had a complete meltdown or was hacked.......

With these prices set to increase much further, anyone got a plan on how to get through this complete orchestrated joke.......

In reply to Post #60
I would find it highly unlikely he got hacked

In reply to Post #61
If thats the case then i do wonder if he is ok?

In reply to Post #62
I hope he is ok.
If you are reading this Jon please let us know.

In reply to Post #57
I could not agree more – but I would not nationalise the essential services as that would mean them being run by another government body, and frankly I would not allow/trust any MP's or politicians from the Conservative, Labour, Liberal, or heaven forbid the SNP to run a Tap!


They are all a complete waste of space, everything single thing they touch is a complete and utter ### up. They seem to have lost all levels of basic “Common Sense”

I'd make the Energy & Utility providers fully public owned again, but run by a fully independent body selected by the people on merit. No Political allegiances, no profits, no shareholders and no bloody Unions involved what so ever (I'm old enough to remember the like of Scargill holding the country to ransom)

In reply to Post #62
Unfortunately due to a recurring theme of personal comments I'm afraid it wasn't a hacking. I only really said that as an effort at a non confrontational way to suggest things had gone seriously wrong.

In that respect I believe it worked. The abuse and threats stopped and as someone noticed then a deleting of all past posts.

Now I screenshotted it all for any future legal reasons. But I'm no grass I didn't PM Karlos or any mods. Where frankly it would have been an immediate ban.

However, we hosted a family BBQ here yesterday. Two family members are coppers. One is child support specialist so is all across the social media stuff. The other is Scotland Yard and gets blackeyes.

The former said I should report it. Just so it's on the system.
But I don't hold any animosity towards the bloke. For myself it just seemed to come out of nowhere. And I'm happy to just forget it.

In reply to Post #65
I didnt see what was written but does seem strange for him to go off on one like he appears to? Threats have never been his style????

In reply to Post #66
It certainly went from zero to 100mph in one post. That's for sure.

But the recurring theme around hard graft and others being lazy and me being a fat **** won't make it hard for any digital forensic bod to work it out .

In reply to Post #64
This is my thinking too. Nationalised utilities is a good solution but it then puts government in charge and I don't trust them. Does anybody anymore?

When you can count those mp's that you do trust and respect on your fingers then it shows how awful our system Currently is.

State pension is what, £9900? Factor in the fuel prices to that. For some of the most vulnerable people in society. And truss and sunak ate arguing among themselves while Johnson has his all expenses paid holidays abroad.

Starting to think that guy fawkes had the right idea. At least it would keep some people warm for a bit in November

In reply to Post #59
Jess Phillips and Zarah Sultana...

Dream Team IMHO.

In reply to Post #69
Zarah Sultana? She's one of my currant favourites too.

In reply to Post #69
I reckon the next leader of the labour party will be Nandy, and I reckon she'll do a pretty good job as PM

Rather sad when you think that's all Labour have to offer nowadays. Jess Phillips, nasty horrible women that continually fiddles her expenses and Nandy Pandy that folds under a bit of pressure, as for Sultana, Corbynite! Doomed I tell yer doomed. 😆

In reply to Post #70
Boom Tish!

Eff. Me that Johnson

Not bad enough that he refused to go when his own MPs quit.
Insisted on staying on as a caretaker PM then went on two holidays.and had a party at Chequers.

Has crippled the Govt with inactivity at a time.of huge national crisis.

Now it's a Farewell Tour


Would someone. ANYONE. look at the Energy/cost more.living crisis?

Before we slip into a.1930s depression.

In reply to Post #74
He's on tour, what a country

In reply to Post #75
He's a total and utter country...

In reply to Post #76

Saw this earlier today.




Just been overcome with fury for the selfishness of Boris Johnson again. When his own party was so disgusted with his never-ending scandals ... he refused to leave immediately as asked simply because that would make him the shortest lived PM in history.
They wanted to put in a caretaker PM to keep government working ... but no ... he wanted to be there a few days longer than Theresa May! Since then he has been on holiday twice and refused to do anything about the growing cost of living and energy crises like a spoilt child
The result of which is that we have been suffering a summer of complete governmental paralysis at a time where swift government action is absolutely essential. We've been subjected to a pathetic leadership election to please 160,000 xenophobic and stuck-in-their-ways morons
What happens next is absolutely essential not only for the clearly desperate people who make up the poorest and most vulnerable categories ... but also those on middle incomes, small businesses and frankly the whole economy. Johnson has condemned them all.
Johnson ... and the current Tory Party are sleepwalking the country in to a place where people are choosing between heating and eating ... a place with rampant inflation ... and a place with an economy that has already hit an iceberg and is sinking fast.
Boris Johnson will go down as one of the (if not THE) worst Prime Ministers this country has ever had. His legacy is to have clung to power for the sake of the record books only to have spent it sulking and sponging off donors while the country burns.

MSE has an online calculator that will show your increase
From 1st Oct to Jan. Based on what you are currently paying. Ours only just went up. Due again in October

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/what-are-the-price-cap-unit-rates-/

In reply to Post #77
Way too much poetic license in that mate
Johnson is and always was an opportunist, a very successful one.
Bad choice to lead a country really though.

In reply to Post #79
We all have opinions here's mine.
If the opposition parties and parts of the Tory party hadn't scuppered Brexit for so long in Parliament Boris would not have got a look in.
The reason he got in with such a large majority is that the public on both sides of the argument, for better or worse wanted Brexit done (whether Brexit has been done is another topic)
So if you want someone to blame for Boris becoming PM blame Westminster.


When I read these types of threads it comes across we have an abundance of experts on here, I don't profess to be one and is the reason I only post occasionally but the above is my opinion.

In reply to Post #80
I couldn't give a toss who or what is to blame Sir Tinhead.l, it's irrelevant You get what you vote for, and if it's shyte take it on the chin and don't make the same mistake again.

The current Tory Party leadership hopefuls
seem to be blaming their own party for everything that's
gone wrong.

A compilation from their campaigns

https://youtu.be/sv1MosADH3U

In reply to Post #81
In my youth when I followed politics a lot more I naively believed that they were all interested in helping the country / the economy/ etc

Years later all I've seen through successive pms is they've promised the earth and delivered very little.

Folk need to take off the rose tinted spectacles....

To put your faith in politicians to fix the country imho is laughable.

In reply to Post #78
So if anyones interested
Our DD for combined Gas and Leccy
Just went up from 150 to 300 a month.

The calculator shows it will be £549.00 a month
From 1st October.

In reply to Post #84
Are you on a variable tariff there?

I would definitely look at a fixed if you are. It looks like most are only offering 1 year fixes at the moment, but with the way things are going, you could save a hell of a lot over 12 months.

In reply to Post #85
Im always wary of fixes you can caught out there too.

In reply to Post #85
Try finding any fixed deals at the minute.........

The way i see it is you simply fix your DD and pay what you can, If you end up in arrears but continue to pay then the company can wait for you to get your account back in order!

Im currently looking into changing my solar panel export and storing it into batteries........

In reply to Post #83
That's an unusual concept. Elected leaders have no influence on the way a country is run.


Now that is laughable.

In reply to Post #88
Your either lacking in grey matter or just plain gullible.

Let's have you name those pms whom have done such a wonderful job. With one caveat you needed to have been an adult taxpayer when they were in power.

In reply to Post #84
300 a month for us from October.

That seems very high is it a very large house / not very energy efficient/ lots of appliances/ lots of kids ?

In reply to Post #83
I agree with all of that. We should have been preparing for this for years.

The days of cheap energy are gone unfortunately.
Fossil fuels running out, those who have an abundance will push the prices up / hold everyone else to ransom and eventually cut off supplies to keep the rest for themselves. What we are seeing now is just a taster of what's to come.
Climate change should have been tackled long ago with more investment in efficiency, coupled with cleaner and alternative energy sources. Politicians just work on short term as substantial investment will push prices up and no doubt lose them votes.

Similar situation is going to happen with food in the future if we carry on as we are.

In reply to Post #91
Definitely agree on the lack of investment in responses to climate change. Renewable and green energy have been demonised by politicians and companies with vested interests only looking at (relatively speaking) short term gains.
Even now, one of Truss' vote winner ideas is to cut the green levy - like that's the problem instead of the billions in profits.

I'm seriously worried that millions of people are going to be in real trouble. And it doesn't make me an 'expert' to see that it's not right that mp's are claiming over £2000 in expenses for energy whilst pensioners are facing anywhere between 30 - 70 per cent of their state pension gone on heating their homes and having a hot meal.

Small business owners are saying that they will have no option but to close as the price cap doesn't apply to them. So there goes another key aspect to the economy.

Its a big ****ty mess

In reply to Post #87
Batteries are certainly becoming more viable and probably a must have for a new system.
I had a very quick chat about this with the electrician who serviced our panels. He thinks there is an add on that will charge your batteries just with your exported surplus but doesn't know much about the system yet. How good it is remains to be seen as it's still early days apparently but I think it's definitely worth looking into. There are off peak battery charging systems but the off peak prices have also gone silly now.
As a half way house I have a box that dumps our surplus into our water tank so that heats our water.
Batteries later perhaps.

In reply to Post #89
I'm neither, not sure you can say the same with ridiculous unfounded statements like post#83

In reply to Post #91
The food situation is obviously solvable considering the world currently produces double the calories each person needs per day.
Waste for profit?

In reply to Post #88
Yes joke ahh, let's cut there wages then if its nothing to do with them, could not make it up.

In reply to Post #95
Really for decades we've had the same continents with starving children due to warfare and corruption ?

Now due to theses energy costs and the rising prices for fertilizer the UN is predicting a very bleak outlook for 2023

Though I do concur we eat too much, plates my parents ate dinner from were no bigger that tea plates

In reply to Post #90
It's a big gaff. We have an East and West Wing lol
Probably could do a lot to economise. I will look into it.
My teen running a gaming PC while on his phone
And taking 3 'showers' a day probably doesn't help lol

In reply to Post #98
Indeed for us we just get occasional visits from the grandkids so are quite fortunate.

In reply to Post #87
MSE has advised that for those that are interested.
Keep paying your DD but tell them what you can afford. Get an agreement. They claim to be trying to help.

Why not cancel the DD? Well in .many cases they can and will
Put you on a higher tariff if not paying by DD. So could cost you
100s more over a year.

In reply to Post #85
When it comes to these matters I go with what Martin Lewis says. Unless I haven't been keeping up to date he's been saying not to fix

In reply to Post #101
He's updated a bit - suggests looking at the percentage rise in your costs and if you can find a fix that's lower then obviously to go for it.

I'm one for following his advice too



I went for a fix because it was not a huge amount more than my current one and I could only see things getting worse before they got better - especially given the 2 potential new PM's ....

Utility warehouse have a really good deal for variable rates according to the MSE energy club website. I was tempted by that one tbh.

In reply to Post #81
We got what we voted for.
A government with a big majority to stop the opposition making a stalemate.
To get that majority a number of anti Brexiters must of voted for the present government.
If the opposition had acted differently they may have found themselves in a much better position now.

In reply to Post #102
The MSE energy club used to be a doddle, I changed providers a couple of times.
I will have to investigate what you say

In reply to Post #103
We didn't really. We would if we had proportional representation though.

"The disproportionality between votes and seats can also be calculated in terms of votes-per-seat-won. In 2019 the Conservatives got one seat for every 38,264 votes, while Labour got one seat for every 50,837 votes. It took many more votes to elect a Lib Dem (336,038) and Green MP (866,435), but far fewer to elect an SNP MP (25,883)."

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/general-election-2019-turning-votes-into-seats/

In reply to Post #103
I don't think people have got what they voted for. Unless I missed the big red bus with 'we'll lie and scheme and take the piss out of you all unless you're one of us' written on it....

In reply to Post #103
Rewriting history now Sir Blankalot.
Theresa May was PM and with a supply and demand agreement with the Brexit aligned DUP, had a majority.
It was the Tory MP's who caused the stalemate. The Conservative MP group ERG, Mogg, Barclay etc wouldn't vote for any deal, not the opposition. Direct your ire in their direction.

In reply to Post #91
Fossil fuels.......it's not running out and it ain't from ****ing dinosaurs.......

In reply to Post #107
No ire from me.
The point I was trying to make is we got a government with a big majority because the electorate got fed up
And decided Tory was the best way to break the deadlock.
Taking the experts on here out that's what most people think outside of the forum.
Well that's my opinion, not going to argue with the experts on here.

In reply to Post #105
As for PR I'm all for some sort of change.
Not sure what but I'm sure the experts know the answer.

In reply to Post #110
The answer is proportional representation!

If 38k votes returns a Tory seat, 51k votes returns a Labour seat, 336k returns a Lib Dem seat and 866k returns a Green seat, it's abundantly clear that it's easier for the Tories and Labour than it is for Lib Dems or Greens, to get MP's in the Commons. If we ditched FPTP and had a PR system then we would actually get what we vote for! Most likely a hung Parliament continually, but far better than a ludicrous majority for a very small majority of votes.

In reply to Post #110

In reply to Post #100
I'm not going to make the mistake of being personal.


This is an observation in general. Personally I don't feel anyone on here is claiming to be an expert. And having a different view to myself doesn't make me think they are trying to be.

In the same token, constantly cheerleading for this Govt doesn't make you a bad person. But you can't claim neutrality just because it's come.on top. If every post is pro Govt or 'just asking questions' . Fine. But it's pretty obvious.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But similarly its an open forum and others are entitled to disagree.

But we shouldn't.resort to 'naive , idiots,.mugs etc'

Or even worse threats.

In a year or so I've seen the vibe in this section of the forum go from Far right, to right, to they are all the same ,to well.maybe we do need a change.

The.language and certainty has changed.

In reply to Post #95
Yes the food situation solvable and not so much of a problem if we eat bamboo shoots but I've still got my pointed teeth and like my steak.
As the population increases, more food is needed but the available farmed land is reduced by houses, roads, energy crops etc so it means we need to farm more intensively, which has an increased environmental and financial cost.
To sustain this intensive farming we will need more energy, transport, machinery, fertiliser production (currently heavily reliant on natural gas), wages etc so prices will rise.

In reply to Post #113
Sir Tinhead suffers from Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia It's been pointed out to him several times when he bangs on about his fictional experts, so take it with a pinch of salt Paul.

In reply to Post #113
Or is that because the people on the left have had the people on the right removed. 🤔

In reply to Post #116
Infamy Infamy....









No.

In reply to Post #115
I'll be truthful, hold my hands up and say my use of 'experts' is a bit of a playful wind up, I'm sure most of you realised that, if not then you are taking this fishing forum too seriously.
I don't think there are any experts on here, plenty with superiority complexes though


As for PR be careful some of you for what you wish for, In 2015 UKIP came third in terms of votes with 12.6%, but won only one seat. Personally not being an expert and it being only my opinion, whether you like it or not with PR you have to accept votes for all types of parties whether you like them or not.

In reply to Post #114
All of those things are factors...

But the biggest factor in terms of deforestation and land use is that of meat farming. It's a huge problem for the gl8bal ecosystem. And I too like a steak.

Wayne, fossil fuels are running out.

Tinhead - you're the expert on superiority complexes

Ocelot- thankyou for the infamy quote. Now all of stokeblokes posts will be voiced by Kenneth Williams in my head which makes them infinitely more interesting

In reply to Post #108
I remember being at school (which was a long time ago) being told that the ozone layer would be the death of us all, ok a slight exaggeration but the outlook was not good. Fortunately since then science has given us alternatives.
I also remember being told fossil fuels would be exhausted by about 2030, that doesn't seem to be the case and since my school days science has given us fracking should we choose to do it.
So I have a question.
Is there a relationship between left wingers saying no to fossil fuels and right wingers saying yes to them, or is there no relationship at all?

@Mal
Yes I'm an expert at that. My expert opinion is you might talk a load of twaddle but I honestly can say you don't have a superiority complex

In reply to Post #116
It's probably more like Berlin in the 50s. Couldn't find a Nazi anywhere.

In reply to Post #113
I'm sparticus

In reply to Post #118
Of course, with PR you get representation across the spectrum, which is the point.

With regards to UKIP's 2015 result, I doubt we'd see similar again since the Tories have shifted so far right as to occupy the same ground, on that basis I'd expect most UKIP'ers would be voting Tory these days.

With a much wider range of views in the House Of Commons, and no disproportionate majority such as the one the Tories have now, I'd expect to see far greater stability and policies that benefit the country become the priority as opposed to the sort of culture war stuff (Rwanda, removing the right to protest etc) which is pretty much all we see at the moment, since the Tories are desperate to try to deflect attention away from how badly they've screwed the country, and everyone in it, over the past 12 years, as opposed to actually governing properly.

The government (whatever Party) will fleece the ordinary person for as long as possible, this issue has been coming for decades.
Who would have thought you'd need extra capacity on the national grid to replace millions of cars with electric vehicles...go figure
Refusal to grant buiding of reactors, in the last few years reductions to feed in tarriffs for house holds to the point it's barely worth getting solar panels.
I read a article the other day where it stated planning consent for large scale solar farms in the U.K had reached 75% refusal rate last year compared to a previous years of 21% which was high compared to the previous years.
I also read about the large profits being generated by the power companies and yet the 1 I was reading about paid NO corporation tax in the financial year....weren't Amazon all over the news for the same reason...but the energy companies, barely a mention.

What worries me is we rarely see this across so many countris and when it's serious there's usually a war to reset

No one in government takes the public seriously as we have no back bone to act. If this was France the country would be on fire


And then there's the raw sewage being pumped into rivers and the sea...why...because the victorian sewers we have can't cope with modern demand. So the obvious answer is to replace them but even the government has said it would be impossible to pass that cost onto the supplier and it'd have to be met by the consumer...it's coming!

Where's that ruddy router, it needs turning off

In reply to Post #119
They really are not running out Mal.......

The time has come for mass change and it's all related to the CC narrative.......the biggest change is taxing and making as much money as possible from corps far bigger than any government.......we're
Lemmings keeping the wheel turning......

In reply to Post #125
You don't think it's anything to do with resource rich countries, Russia, Saudi, Iran etc using fossil fuel profits to fund huge war machines. So reducing our reliance becomes a win win?

#119 Mal

In an office somewhere in the USA...

Mr Dunning: 'Wayne's posted in non-carp again'

Mr Kruger: 'High five!'

In reply to Post #125
They are a finite resource, so by definition are running out...

However I don't think they are currently in any danger of running out in the next few decades.

In reply to Post #125
As baggymouser says, it's a finite resource. There was a finite number of prehistoric material that became fossil fuel. This has been used at an increased rate since the onset of the industrial revolution and it will eventually run out. They're not making any more 250 million year old forests...

Was back in work today. Our business manager gave a simple insight into the effect of energy prices. From an 80k bill p.a. to 200k for the next year. A 120k additional cost with no increase in funding. That equates to 4 teachers. And we're by no means the worst affected as our business manager is very astute and locked in a deal a while back.

We can't 'pass costs on to customers' like big businesses might try to. Cutting VAT isn't going to help the situation. Imagine how this is going to affect hospitals who don't close overnight or the weekend like we do.

Strong government intervention is needed. So - given what we have and what we are likely to get from Monday, were all screwed.

In reply to Post #129
We all going to die!

A bit sensationalist but don't worry we are not all going to die all at once though.
No one lives for ever, we will all die one by one, all our lives are finite.
Yes fossil fuels will come to end but only if we decide to use every scrap of them.
But maybe in millions of years new ones will be formed.

What I'm trying to say here let's not nit pick. Baggy is correct in my opinion.
We still have fossil fuels that we can use for some time to come, the question is should we?

With fuel poverty approaching it's not such an easy to question to answer.
We can continue to attempt to make ourselves carbon neutral but what's the point if it means importing energy from non carbon neutral countries?

In reply to Post #130
Fuel poverty isn't approaching. It's here. For millions of families.

And I agree that the question is 'should we?' My view is that we have the knowledge that we are rapidly using up this resource and more importantly, that we're capable of making changes for our grandchildren so we bloody well should.

In reply to Post #131
So should we change our thinking, use more of our own fossil fuels in the short term to help those in fuel poverty until more greener alternatives become available at a later date.
Or meet our own carbon neutral by buying energy from other countries who's green credentials may be questionable?

Boris announced Sizewell C, something the LibDems are against.
Who is right when it comes to nuclear?
Overall cost is estimated at £20billion so you can double or triple that. French EDF will build it.
I'm not sure but thankfully we have experts on here who will tell us.

In reply to Post #132
Expert here,
We outsource everything , so we are fooked
No charge

In Johnsons speech yesterday. (I watched it all)
Before he comes out with the much Shared ludicrous buy a new kettle suggestion. He slips in a strong blame at
'Tony and Gordon' for not building any Nuclear Power Station

Obviously omitting that the Conservatives haven't either.

Anyway. If you Google it, Brown signed off on 4.
The Libdems were vocal opponents and jumped in to bed with Cameron and that brought us to this.

The silly kettle bit is just a freebie. Trump did it all the time.
The big lie has already been put out there for the
Base followers and the half listener. Then it'd hidden by some bufoonery.

In reply to Post #132
The problem with nuclear is public perception.

I'm sure we all remember what what happened in Japan in 2011 to their reactor following an earthquake.

Let's taken Germany the manufacturing superpower of Europe they get a sniffle we get a bad cold. Sadly it looks like they will get a bad cold so the eurozone is screwed.

Before Fukushima 1/4 of Germanys energy came from nuclear reactors they had 17 but public option won in the courts and it was abandoned they close their last reactor this year.

Now with what has is happening in Ukraine and their reliance on Russian gas they are rethinking their position though the problem will be the opposition I'm sure, the financial investment and time to get these reactors online.

This link gives the figures on nuclear energy by country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_by_country

Perhaps we could solve the fuel crisis by simply re-directing the hot air generated on carpforum.co.uk into our gas network?

In reply to Post #136
Yes

In reply to Post #136
Absolutely all this talk of labour saving the country who needs nuclear.

Some interesting comments from the head of octopus energy in an interview. Outline that if the investment in green / renewable energy had been applied properly over the last decade, then we wouldn't be in the mess we are in now.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/science/1663842/octopus-energy-bills-greg-Jackson-renewables-gas-prices-liz-truss-green-levy/amp

In reply to Post #139
Problem is with renewables the amount of land space you need for wind turbines, solar panels etc etc.

Sadly the green spaces get gobbled up for housing...

The leading countries for renewable energy tend to have the less people, like Norway, Sweden & Finland

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/european-countries-by-population-density.html

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/02/liz-truss-law-and-order-policies-meaningless-says-police-chief

In reply to Post #140
Johnson had no problem with HS2

In reply to Post #140
Doesn't have to be all land based. Off my old home there's a huge coastal wind farm.

Plus the land can be multi use.

Housing isn't the big land gobbler, livestock farming is. Or is this just you getting ready for another pritti moment?

Scandinavian countries are well known for being more progressive in terms of ecology among other aspects of society- education as a prime example. Maybe the link is just that they're forward thinking where we aren't.

There are always those who come up with excuses for not developing renewable and green energies but we're past the point where we have a sustainable choice if we want to leave something worthwhile for tge next generations.

Short term greed is the overriding reason for the over reliance on fossil fuels.

In reply to Post #140
Massive issue with renewables is they are not green. The disposal of billions of solar panels is going to become a nightmare. Turbine blades another problem, they can not be recycled. 52000 tons of blades going into landfill every year across the world. Shocking when you look into it.

In reply to Post #144
Everything is shocking. When you look into it.

In reply to Post #143
All I can try to do is lead the horses to water.....

In reply to Post #144
A large proportion of solar panels can be recycled.

Presumably you are referring to glass fibre turbine blades.
There is now technology available to recycle these blades and recover almost all of the glass fibre.

In reply to Post #142
I thought it was Gordon Brown ?

In reply to Post #142

In reply to Post #142

In reply to Post #148
2012 Grant Schapps
That figures ...

In reply to Post #151
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_High_Speed_2

In reply to Post #147
The technology your referring to is not widespread and at present is not cost effective. So for now we carry on shovelling them into the ground which is unacceptable.

In reply to Post #145
Yep things are shocking, especially your comment #121 which insinuates that anyone leaning to the right politically, is a Nazi. Quite offensive to some. I'm pretty sure even your digital policeman friends would be shaking their heads at that one!

In reply to Post #144
Put the green stuff through lifecycle analysis and I bet most of iit is not at the races

Keeps the “green thinkers” happy though and people cashing in on it

I see they are building a wind farm the size of greater Manchester in the North Sea ffs, imagine that lot in 20 years time. I am all for protecting the planet but while the human population grows there is a need, or a least in the western world

Nuclear is viewed as dirty but the output compared with renewables outweighs the deficit for me, it's just dealing with the waste. We are crying out for me for somebody to invent an eco friendly high powered solar system, there could be one on every house, self efficient and sufficient

While ever we live in a disposable world and people want everything now we are totally ****ed. It's expected in the western world that we all have running water, heated water and all the lights on in the house as well as cookers, fridges, washing machines, toasters, kettles etc etc and still people moan!

All of our key resources should be government owned for me funded by our taxes, all they have ever done, especially the Conservative party is to sell it all off and wash there hands of it the ****ing useless ****s

In reply to Post #155
Apparently if you buy a new kettle you can save £10 per year and then everything will be OK....



Green and renewable isn't perfect. Nobody believes it is. But none of the arguments against it outweigh the situation with fossil fuels in terms of economic and ecology

In reply to Post #156
Yes I see that , what a great leader he was , on to the next pile of ****

In reply to Post #156

In reply to Post #156

In reply to Post #156
12 years in fukin charge and the **** says buy a new kettle

In reply to Post #156

In reply to Post #156

In reply to Post #156
I've not watched the speech and I'm not going to spend time finding and watching it but from what I can gather the kettle was a poor analogy with nuclear power.
I stand to be corrected but the analogy was nuclear power stations are initially very expensive to build but cheaper to run, so over the years they become cost effective. Same with initially buying kettle and its running costs.

If that's what was meant it was a rubbish analogy IMO but he'll be gone on Monday and he'll have a host of new media avenues to broadcast his gems.

In reply to Post #132
So what about an answer to my question

So should we change our thinking, use more of our own fossil fuels in the short term to help those in fuel poverty until more greener alternatives become available at a later date.
Or meet our own carbon neutral by buying energy from other countries who's green credentials may be questionable?

No good saying what we should have done to avoid the situation mistakes in the past have been made.
Should we become more fuel reliant by using our own fossil fuels?

In reply to Post #164
Short term... you say it yourself.

Short term thinking rewards Short term greed and facilitates the continued rip off of the poor while filling the coffees if huge businesses and their wealthy friends / parties they are in bed with.

None of it is helping those in fuel poverty

Edit - the head of OVO has come up with a checklist of ways to help the current situation. It's worth a read


https://www.bbc.com/news/business-62742303

In reply to Post #153
Granted there has been too much of a delay in addressing the issue of turbine blade recycling but cost effective or not plants are being built to deal with them, even in the uk!
Pyrolysis is not new and I believe blades are also being used in cement manufacturer so two fairly simple methods of dealing with them.
New manufacturing methods are also being looked at to make recycling easier and some of these new blades are being used in a French off shore wind farm so progress is being made.

In reply to Post #165
You haven't made it clear are you saying we shouldn't use our own fossil fuels to reduce bills, even in the short term?


Mr OVO doesn't make it clear whether we should continue to use energy from fossil fuels whether it's our own or from other countries. He mentions a carbon tax, aren't we asking for reduced taxes?

I haven't got the answers by the way. Whatever we do will upset someone.

In reply to Post #167
How do we reduce bills using our own fossil fuels?

In reply to Post #153
Why are they being "shovelled into the ground"?
Perhaps it's because carbon fiber technology is making the turbine blades larger, therefore making the turbine more efficient and generating more energy from the same individual unit after retrofit. Perfectly acceptable short term as technology advances.

In reply to Post #168
Seems to work for countries that produce more of their own energy.

People on tv/radio say it will reduce prices and as they are on those channels I assume they must know more than I.
If you know better you should be the first to ring into these programmes and put them right.

In reply to Post #170
Does it? Any examples we can follow? Your solution you justify it financially and timescale wise.

In reply to Post #171
Sorry to send you to sleep but I don't come on here as an expert.

Rather than tell me I'm wrong and satisfy your superiority complex you should reach a wider audience and ring into the programmes when claims are made that generating your own energy whether it be fossil or renewables is a good thing.


Oh well at least you've given Mal an answer he can give, short term use of fossil fuels won't reduce prices because Ocelot said so.

In reply to Post #167
We are using fossil fuels now... the UK imports a smalker percentage of fossil fuels than most other European countries. And our bills have increased by the greatest percentage....

The problem isn't that we're getting energy from abroad, it's energy companies raking in huge profits whilst raising bills for the poorest in society.

Do you think British companies aren't making huge profits?

About 50 per cent of our gas comes from the North Sea. Only 4 per cent from Russia yet Boris and Co will tell their loyal followers that its putin's fault that we are facing huge bills.

In reply to Post #173
All about volume the less you buy the more you pay...

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/energy-consumption-by-country

In reply to Post #173
Of course I'm aware of the huge profits being made.
I'll have to have a rethink because my line of questioning is getting lost.

In reply to Post #172
I know your inferiority complex is raging again but read the words. Where do I say you're wrong? Simply asked for any examples, as usual none just a rambling pointless reply.

In reply to Post #176
He's still waiting for an expert

In reply to Post #175
I get what you're saying- I just don't think that relying on more of the same approach that has caused the problem is the answer

In reply to Post #176
I never claimed to have any examples, what I said was there are a lot of people on tv/radio explaining their views.
Many of the views is that we should be more reliant on producing our own energy, if I remember correctly there is a gas/oil field north sea that was due to concreted over but that has been stopped. Fracking has been mentioned.
Looks like nuclear will play a bigger part in the future. Not fossil but still contentious for some.

My questioning which seems I haven't done very well is what do people think. So here's my last attempt.
If more fossils is one way to reduce prices and to reduces fuel poverty should we do it?


It's not a question I can answer easily myself, maybe after winter it will be easier but I bet most of those in poverty wouldn't give a **** how they reduce prices, they just want it done.

Just wondered what our experts on here thought, either they are deliberately missing the point or my questioning is ****

In reply to Post #177

Anyone's an expert if you cba educating yourself

In reply to Post #180
But we don't know the route cause do we ?

All I see on this thread is Tory bashing and waiting for the next snippet from the tabloids.

In reply to Post #179
I honestly believe that more fossil fuels will not reduce prices or fuel poverty.

It will just increase company profits and continue the current problem.

Based entirely on the evidence of fuel and energy companies behaviour so far and government refusal to act in the best interests of the majority of people

I think that's as clear an answer as possible to what you're asking.

In reply to Post #182
The Germans seem to be splitting the electricity market along the lines of those that use gas to generate and those that don't. Taxing excess profits on the ones that don't use gas on the grounds that the coupling of prices is coincidental. Putting billions into tax relief schemes for heavy manufacturing, cheap fixed €9 a month local transport for workers and various support for pensioners, students etc.

€95 billion package without borrowing or increasing personal taxation.

Liz Truss on TV this morning promised her plan within a week and needs to get it right.

#181 I don't see much Tory bashing on this thread mate. Feel free to defend the poor buggers if you feel they're getting an unjustified hard time.

In reply to Post #183
There's been loads of tory bashing on the news and TV recently.

That Sunak fella has had a right go at them and their handling of the pandemic. And the lass who does the rubbish Thatcher impersonation... liz something... you should hear her criticising the former tory chancellor...

In reply to Post #179
My personal opinion is that we've “painted ourselves into a corner” as it were, so I don't believe we've much of a choice other than to use more fossil fuel in the short term. However I would be surprised if prices came down significantly either way.
Remember most of our energy companies are not British owned so can we expect any favours from them?
Realistically I believe the best we can hope for is that our supply will be maintained with some help from fossil fuels.

Energy prices tend to be heavily influenced by the most expensive energy source, certainly if a significant amount comes from an expensive source then prices would need to allow for any extra used from that source. Presumably there is a base level of use from renewables and cheap sources so any extra will need to be produced from that higher priced source. Perhaps a tariff for all domestic users that rises with quantity to penalise extravagant use would make sense.
I agree nuclear will almost certainly play a big part in our future energy supplies, right or wrong, its controllable and relatively clean until decommissioning unless there is a problem of course.

In reply to Post #181
just waiting for an expert, know eny

In reply to Post #182
Fossil fuel is dead, peak oil was a long time ago. See the latest Shell advert, renewables, the super power as well as others are on their arse and they know it, where will they pump their money now? Just imagine when Saudi is a dust land of the past and they can't control **** all

In reply to Post #187
'Fossil fuel is dead' .....

Post of the year.

Having not been active for a few days it seems there are a few points that need to be made to challenge the ideas that green energy isn't as 'green' as its claimed to be.

Firstly, there is an obvious carbon cost to making the actual equipment, and the subsequent disposal of broken parts. Whilst it Is true that they will currently be produced by burning fossil fuels, the energy that they create will in turn be used in some capacity for the manufacturing of future renewables. I don't personally think that anyone is saying that they are a golden bullet, but its better than what the current options as far as net carbon neutrality goes. The building of green energy production will propagate the production of more materials to generate more energy in a cyclic manor.

Its worth noting that early adoption of technology is enormously beneficial for development of future technology. As someone pointed out, the technology for recycling of carbon fibre is not YET currently available, but it is possible. Its also worth pointing out at this point that in the last ten years, the efficiency of solar module efficiency has increased by 30% (from roughly 14% to 20%) and the loss of solar PV in a panel has reduced by 80%. More shockingly, the efficiency from the early 2000s was around 2%. So in 20 years, we have increased the efficiency of solar energy of almost 10 fold.
If investment is pushed into green energy, the technological advancement could be phenomenal and immeasurably beneficial for future generations, and I think that this is the duty of everyone alive to push the future wellbeing of our children, and their children to the forefront of our lives.

Finally, when it comes to the decision of wether or not to use fossil fuels, I think its worth baring in mind that there are some things that we simply cannot get from any other source. Obviously the fractions of crude oil that are used in fuel can be replaced with greener forms of energy, but other fractions of fuel, particularly those that make certain plastics and other synthetics are currently not available by other means. Our consumption of plastics and their environmental impacts =, for example leaching into the food chain are actually terrifying. I don't currently have a broad enough knowledge base to know anything about potential replacements for these distillates, but if anyone knows of some future tech that could be used to replace these id like to hear about them?
So unfortunately as far as I know, we will still be using crude oil for an awful long time...

In reply to Post #188
Well he is correct it's from dead matter 😀

We have a few dinosaurs on this thread in need of meeting an asteroid .

In Liz we truss 😀👍🏼

You know that price cap is coming 🤞

In reply to Post #190

In reply to Post #190
haha, good one.

They're already sending letters to the 1922 committee.

In reply to Post #165
The head of OVO worth's a read????

Whilst he's busy lining his own pockets.......

https://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/1664829/Martin-Lewis-clash-OVO-energy-boss-GMB

February Putin put his nuclear arms at high level alert because of a statement made by Liz Truss. Seven months later Liz Truss is announced the UK's new PM 😂

In reply to Post #194
Good on Liz.

If labour were in power we'd be saying comrade now 😀

In reply to Post #195
But, but, but Labour 😂😂😂

I still dont understand why the party ousted May, at least she had a decent bit of integrity, one of a small amount of MP's I actually respect

In reply to Post #197
Agreed something which we see less and less of from politicians in general

After the unexpected departure of Noj I decided to send him a private message asking if he was ok.
He has replied and said he wants to keep off the forum but if anyone is concerned to let them know he is in good health.

In reply to Post #198
Jason, you're all over the place today. You want integrity but conversely full of glee at Truss's feeble victory amongst the blue rinse brigade. If you want an example of a politician without integrity, it is her.

A Lib Dem activist who marched against her cosplay fantasy Thatcher in the 80's, very into environmental protection, campaigned for legalising drugs before somehow getting parachuted into a safe Tory Seat in Norfolk. Denounced Brexit "a triple tragedy", then changed her mind because "integrity" .

In reply to Post #200
Meanwhile, the pound falls 0.3% this morning to 1.1474, its lowest level since 1985.

In reply to Post #200
In Liz we trust - I thought you were bright enough to pick up on my high spirited post but as usual I get a blinkered retort from you.

I had praise for Theresa May which is below.

Please read all posts properly before responding.

In reply to Post #201
When the world economy is doing bad the dollar is always a safe haven for investors hence the euro or sterling doing badly

Europes economic direction is very much governed by Germany who are in the poop which is a huge worry for us all.

Consequently the euro hit a 20 year low against the dollar today.

Maybe mighty labour can fix that one as well eh

In reply to Post #202
Awww, thanks for the compliment x

In reply to Post #203
Maybe a factor is that Truss has hinted there's going to be control of fuel prices?
The markets don't normally like things like that sort of thing.
I'm sure an expert will intervene.

In reply to Post #203
Lowest since 1985. Today.

Do you believe in co-incidences? 'Cos I don't.

Nobody can fix anything whilst this Tory shower are in power. Not for much longer, mind.

In reply to Post #205
I'm very busy at the moment

In reply to Post #193
I like his idea of removing the standing charge. So you pay fir what you use. An actual idea that helps people.

In reply to Post #206
As I've said on this thread how Europe fairs is largely down to the German economy- uk is largely a service industry these days and we know all the dynamic. I'm sure you'll blurt on about the tories sold everything bla bla

During the last election the public was given a choice between Boris or Corbyn.

And that herein has always been the problem poor leadership from labor the last decent leader was Blair imho and of course not liked by everyone.

Go find a decent leader labour.

I'm not even going to bother with Starmer.

In reply to Post #208
I'm sure we'll get something this week from Liz 👍🏼

In reply to Post #210
It's also a bloody scandal that there's probably been a plan / proposal from Tory HQ all along, but they've let the worry for millions of households and businesses drag on for months whilst they held their vanity contest (that everyone knew the result of weeks ago) so that they could save it til' she was announced as PM, presumably to give her an early boost. Playing politics with the mental health of the nation. Despicable really. Not surprising though.

In reply to Post #211
Satire and reality ridiculously interchangeable these days.

https://twitter.com/nytopinion/status/1566773151819653120

(Contains swearing).

In reply to Post #211
Well Germany with no political change have only just come out with their plans.

These things take time to sort out.

Keep calm and carry on.

By the way I have a daughter with 3 young children (two just in double figures), single mum struggling with everything and we are doing all to help as much as we can - so I know how tough this is.

In reply to Post #213
Good for you, and lucky that you are in a position to help - and I hope things don't get as bleak as predicted for you, your family, or anyone elses.

My lot are still at home, emptying local reservoirs and depleting the North Sea gas reserves every time they take a shower. In all seriousness, it's a major concern and I hope that we can find a way out of this.

In reply to Post #210
Perhaps she'll suggest a price cap of £2000 and you'll all jump for joy because its not £3500...

All the while forgetting that the fuel and energy companies made billions in profit in the last quarter when the price cap was..... oh yeah about £2000.....


Just like everyone is so pleased that we're 'only' paying £1.70 per litre of petrol because its better than £2.00 but shell and Co are still raking it in

In reply to Post #215
Just keep banging on about a few rich persons.....I don't really care and don't understand what can be done either or what difference it will make.

Throughout history I'm sure you know these same folk in various guises have always existed.

Olena Zelenska: ‘You count pennies, we count casualties

In reply to Post #216
Banging on about a few rich persons... like your post about the head of OVO lining his pockets?

I'm commenting on companies and how they are being protected by your beloved tories whilst screwing over the majority of society. I'm not ok with that even if you are.

Anyway, it's not a total loss today. I hear priti has resigned... it's a start....

In reply to Post #217
Make up your mind in one breadth you were cursing about his type then singing his praises and then Martin Lewis spelt it out to the man.

And you do know that Stephen Fitzpatrick is a Tory donor 😀

Where is the evidence of this Tory protection please ?

In reply to Post #218
Tory protection, BP, SHELL,
Thought government's served the people

In reply to Post #219
I've heard these names mentioned before though when asked to explain or back it up folk can't .

I can therefore only class it has hearsay, perhaps you have the evidence please share.

In reply to Post #220
A quick google search, and suggests the conservatives have taken a nice amount of donor money from the energy sector, in the past couple of years

In reply to Post #218
I said his ideas were worth reading

And then clarified that I thought his proposal to cut the standing charge was a good idea that would benefit people

I also said I'm commenting on companies and government policies that protect them rather than individuals.

I can't make it much simpler. Would it help if I came up with 3 word slogan?

In reply to Post #221
That's correct and I note labour also took money Scottish power for example

In reply to Post #222
His ideas are nothing different from many others.

I did hear a good one that by simply adjusting the combi boiler settings that most homes have installed in the UK by reducing the boiler “flow temperature” and turning off hot water “pre-heating could save several hundreds of pounds not sure if he got that one?

Let's be honest what we are all looking for here is a cap

The facts on protection of the energy companies - You keep on trivialising though please give this evidence that's all I asked....I don't need slogans I need facts..

In reply to Post #224
Bit of an all encompassing statement.

A cap on the price sold to all UK consumers or a cap on the bill to domestic users?

Or one of the many caps Lezz could wear?

In reply to Post #223
But they're not in charge

Guarantee energy company profits and have the taxpayer pay off the loans made to the energy companies over the next 10 - 20 years.

"The companies were receptive to the idea, which means they will avoid a windfall tax and see the shortfall in their revenue covered by the taxpayer, a person present said."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-09-05/truss-earmarks-130-billion-to-keep-uk-energy-bills-below-2-000

We're being scammed. Govt. has no clue what level prices will reach, yet will still commit us to underwriting the cost, ensuring vast profits are maintained for the energy firms throughout this crisis.

If you live in a massive mansion using loads of power and gas, you immediately come out of this better off than someone living in a bedsit; the bills will be very similar.

This isn't the answer and Govt. will be creating a whole raft of unimagined problems if this becomes the actual policy.

In reply to Post #217
I'm commenting on companies and how they are being protected by your beloved tories

FFS............Corps are bigger than any government, Do You honestly think if another party was in power it would suddenly change........

In reply to Post #228
Absolutely, yeah, it was in Labour's 2019 manifesto to nationalise rail, post, energy, broadband etc.

In reply to Post #229
Wouldnt work, Pay would be less, conditions worse etc etc....And we also know people will say anything to get in power........

Same applies to energy companies........You try anything silly and they simply pull out taking all the infrastructure with them.....

To nationalise what you mention would literally be like starting up new companies with no current set up........

In reply to Post #230
Pay would be more because we wouldn't have to pay filthy rich shareholders instead of decent wages.

I don't know how utility companies can take infrastructure with them, sounds pretty daft. I take it that you agree that it's absolutely absurd that companies are making vast profits selling us natural resources that we collectively own? Sure...there's a cost to get it to us, but mass profits.....nah.

Are you arguing against it because it's a bit too socialist, perhaps?

In reply to Post #230
It wouldnt work? Or it wouldnt work because it's a labour idea? Or more importantly a Corbyn idea

In reply to Post #228
Yes, but I'm not an expert

In reply to Post #232
Yes

It won't happen......that ship sailed many many years ago.....

Imaging saying to BP were taxing the **** out of you.........BP would simply leave the UK market. You can see this already when the Gov is already considering paying them to keep caps in place!!! same applies to most Corps with huge monetary and influencing clout!

As for savilles mate and Labour they wouldn't achieve state ownership because like the cons it's all about lining your mates pockets and being held to ransom by the money machines......

In reply to Post #236
And that is the very reason why it could have worked under Corbyn. Like him, or loathe him, he wasnt in it for the money

Lots of how much better it would be if Labour were in power but what did they achieve last time they were in government?
I'm sure there must of been something but nothing comes to mind.

Isn't it the case that whatever party is in power nothing really changes

In reply to Post #238
If you're a civil servant I'd imagine there is a massive difference

In reply to Post #238
Completely agree.

Oh labour would change everything and make it better please please take off the rose tinted spectacles.

I also can't remember what they last did which was great and it's been so long since they've been in power...

It is so easy to stand back and come up with all these theories and nonsense it's been so long I don't think they really understand what the challenges are, Corbyn to me demonstrated labour had completely lost their way and left you not far from a similar position of Lib Dem

And who is this Starmer chap never hear from him...

Leader he couldn't lead the cub scouts.

The big companies run countries not governments....and I think the penny is starting to drop..

In reply to Post #240
1997 - 2010
1) Made the UK more equal
2) Improved education and health
3) Reduced waiting times for hospital inpatient care
4) Increased doctor and nurse numbers
5) Increased teacher numbers by 50k
6) Increased numbers of pupils getting 5 good GCSE's
7) Dramatically improved London School performance
8) Agreed £2b investment and settlement for sick Miners
9) Reduced numbers of pensioners and children in poverty
10) Through tax / benefit changes increased poorest incomes by 13%
11) Increased social mobility
12) Increased help for poorest countries

Don't even waste your energy arguing with any of this since they're all fully verified, proven claims.

Source: https://fullfact.org/economy/labour-inequality-1997-2010/

Your turn to do the Tories from 2010 - now.

In reply to Post #241
Sure lots of these have real numbers also

1) Getting Brexit done by leaving the EU on January 31 2020, fulfilling our promise to the British people. We are also introducing a new points-based immigration system, taking back control of our borders while continuing to attract the brightest and best to the UK.

2) Delivering the biggest cash boost in history for the NHS and enshrining that increase in law, to safeguard it for future generations. We are investing an additional £33.9 billion in frontline NHS services every year by 2023-24, the largest and longest funding settlement in the history of the NHS. We have also provided the NHS with the funding it needs to tackle coronavirus–with an extra £31.9 billion for health services in our immediate response to coronavirus.

3) Giving the police the resources they need by recruiting 20,000 additional police officers, while providing the police the biggest increase in funding for a decade. We are providing the police with an extra £1.1 billion this year, to help kick start the recruitment of 20,000 extra police officers, the first 3,000 of which have already been hired.

4) Helping people with the cost of living by introducing the National Living Wage and increasing it to record levels to end low pay. When we introduced the NLW in 2016, it meant an immediate pay rise for 4.5 million people. In April 2020, we provided the largest ever cash boost to the NLW, to £8.72–a 50 per cent increase for over25s since 2010. Our manifesto commits to going further: we will increase the NLW to two-thirds of average earnings by 2024, which is currently forecast at £10.50. We have also helped people with the cost of living by cutting stamp duty for 95 per cent of first-time buyers, saving people up to £5,000.

5) Becoming one of the first countries in the world to introduce a legally binding target of Net Zero emissions by 2050, and reducing greenhouse emissions by 28 per cent. We have reduced greenhouse gases by 28 per cent since coming to office in 2010. And we plan to go further to deliver green growth, for example by upgrading the energy efficiency of homes across England through a new £2 billion Green Homes Grant, and by doubling our International Climate Finance funding to £11.6 billion over the next five years

6) Putting our public finances on a strong footing so that we can supply the support that is needed during coronavirus. Because we have had a prudent, sensible, one nation Conservative party in power over the past 10years, we were able to reduce the deficit left by Labour–which means now we can focus on putting our arms around the people of this country, for example through our £190 billion package of economic support to protect people's jobs and livelihoods

7) Boosting funding in our primary and secondary schools by £14 billion over the next three years, so that every child can get a good education. We are increasing the schools budget by £2.6 billion in 2020-21, £4.8billion in 2021-22 and £7.1 billion in 2022-23, compared to 2019-20. This will bring the schools budget up to a record£52.2 billion. We will also transform schools in every region of the country, starting with a new £1 billion investment, the first part of our ambitious 10-year plan to invest in rebuilding schools across England.

8) Launching a Lifetime Skills Guarantee so that people can get the skills they need at every stage of their life–meaning they can retrain and find new, well-paid jobs to Build Back Better. Our Lifetime Skills Guarantee will provide adults in England without an A-Level or equivalent qualifications from April the opportunity to take up a free, fully-funded college course. We are also making higher education loans more flexible, so people can space out their study across their lifetime and take more high-quality vocational courses

9) Launching a £3.6 billion Towns Fund to ensure prosperity and opportunities are available to everyone, not just those in London or our biggest cities. The funding will support an initial 100 towns by improving both transport and digital infrastructure, driving local growth and raising living standards.

10) Investing record amounts–triple the average over the last 40 years–to build the railways and roads of the future. £640 billion of capital investment will be invested in roads, railways, communications, schools, hospitals and power networks. Over the Parliament, public sector net investment will be triple the average public sector net investment over the last 40 years. We are also investing£5 billion to deliver gigabit broadband across the country, so that no community is left behind

In reply to Post #242
Source of the copy and paste please. Looks like it was written by the Tories, which doesn't count.

In reply to Post #243
All of those claims were fact checked and passed with flying colours......

In reply to Post #243
I can't be bothered no matter what I'll put you'll just comeback with another question and another question
I could also query the source and the accuracy of the information you provided on labour but you'll argue that till I fall asleep.

The facts speak for themselves for labour. poor leadership and clearly the majority of voters in the uk get that and hence we have a conservative government.

Sadly the only thing I remember for labour is when in power because of their left wing attitude the amount of Asian grooming gangs which blighted our nation and ruined countless lifes and decades later under conservative leadership this was all exposed... but we've already had a thread on that one - correct ?

Where's ocelot sure he's penning a reply right now

In reply to Post #237
Oh my god......speechless......

In reply to Post #242
1) brexit is still a shambles, and there are still people crossing over on boats, which you arent happy about.
2) giving a cash boost doesnt help after being underfunded for years.
3) police still underfunded and under resourced.
4) my football club bought in the living wage before the government did.
5) wasnt the first.
6) used Corbyns magic money tree
7) as per answer 2
8) pretty much a labour idea.
8) the majority of funds went to tory constituencies.
9 as per answer 2.

Nice copy and paste though

In reply to Post #246
Facts Wayne, I know it's hard to get your head around it

In reply to Post #243

In reply to Post #242
I watched the big Brexit cheese Farage's interview with the Telegraph a few days ago. Strangely at that bastion of right wing Toryism Telegraph Towers

Your point 1. Hes adamant it's has been absolutely fooked up.

To all your other points he's pretty clear, he despises what the Tories have become after admitting helping them win big in 2019.
Hoping they lose and get wiped out in 2024 for the good of the country.
Funny old world....

In reply to Post #248
The BBC and SKY fact checked those claims and both agreed there true statements........now if they say it's true it's true surely........I Mean they don't lie or over exaggerate stuff so they.......look at the CV pandemic......pure true facts......

In reply to Post #247
Correct

How's the multi million pound ruwanda project going chaps

In reply to Post #242
Maybe check that again, are u moggy

In reply to Post #245
That's right. I'll continue to question made up, unverified nonsense that in the most part hasn't even happened yet (most of those reference future dates and the first one is about Brexit, which as everyone knows, isn't "done"), and why shouldn't I?

Do you understand what Full-Fact is? It was set up by a Conservative donor and is non-partisan. There's nothing there nor in the link that I provided that has not been 100% verified, so you're entirely incorrect. You stated that you "couldn't remember" what Labour have done, and it's now there in black and white, jogging your memory.

You're entirely correct that the facts do indeed speak for themselves; I have posted several, and you have posted none.

Just admit it brexit is a car crash
Your feel better for it

In reply to Post #255
But I couldn't as it's been soooo longggg

I really don't care what you think labour are not in power and have not been for more than a decade there's a fact for you.

On a positive note I do like what Sturgeon has just announced announced

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-62807578

In reply to Post #257
If labour haven't been in power for ages, who's fault is it that the country is in a bit of a pickle?? I'm sure Wayne will blame Corbyn 😂

In reply to Post #258
Give us a clue

In reply to Post #258
I just think labour have lacked a charismatic leader who can engage with the public, it's the one skill Tony Blair had when Gordon Brown came to power he just didn't have that engaging personality.

At the end of the day you need to be bit of a salesperson to convince joe public yes policies are important but you need to be able to engage with all.

In reply to Post #260
A charismatic leader like Liz Truss.

You've been value for money tonight, Jason.

In reply to Post #261
That's my suggestion to labour, clearly the party with the issue, keep up.

In reply to Post #262
I'm ahead of you.

In reply to Post #263
But I'm looking down at you 🤡

In reply to Post #264
Yes, we know, you're a Tory.

So... when I said it was good news that priti had gone....

... Truss replaces her with maybe the one mp who is even more nasty... ffs

In reply to Post #262
Labour at the moment is dead in the water. Wants a radical reshuffle some of the stuff they were claiming would put us even more on our arse, I mean, just imagine if JC had got in, what a tool

Said it before, there is a clue in the name, Labour, the ones who looked after the working man, mr average. Now they look out for the scroungers of which this country is becoming saturated with

As for Truss, probably the best of a bad bunch, at least Sunak the multi millionaire did not get in, let's hope there is some level headed thinking from Mrs average but what a total **** up she has got to sort out!

In reply to Post #268
Collateral damage, its OK their oven ready,
Got brexit done, ..... yer thanks

In reply to Post #267
I agree that Labour need another leader. Starmer arrived a few years late. In the era when politicians and politics were seen as a bit boring, he would have done well - he's a serious, honest and principled bloke.

Somehow people like Farage and Johnson have converted the audience of an average Jim Davidson show into card carrying tories, simply because they think they're a laugh ... someone you could have a pint with and moan about all the brown folk in town. Decent conservative voters must find it pretty depressing. As for decent conservative MPs, they're very thin on the ground after Johnson got rid of 90% of them.

Labour should play them at their own game, get a leader who hates the right while being a good laugh. I'd vote for Frankie Boyle.

In reply to Post #268
Lol just trying to recall when the labour party were there....

In my mind the picture was in black & white

In reply to Post #268
See the strippers just arrived

Wallpaper u dirty dogs

In reply to Post #270
I'm not sure if all on this thread are old enough to remember the tv series Till Death us do Part.

I do miss Alf Garnetts straight talking.

His views on the labour party were interesting and I quote. Noting labour were in power then.

‘His biggest reason for being a Conservative was not that he loved and admired the party, but that he fully rejected the policy of the Labour Party, believing them to pretend to represent the working classes, whilst all they would do when in power is feather their own nests.'

So now we have the tories being accused of the same thing.....

In reply to Post #273
It's definitely amusing.

Especially considering that out of everyone posting in this thread, you're the one that's most comparable to Alf Garnett, however, unlike him you fail to recognise the utter despicableness of the current HM Govt.

And they say that art imitates life. Pffft.

In reply to Post #274
So often on this thread you fail to comprehend the simple message that I'm trying to deliver....and jump on the defence of labour.

When labour was in power this was the sentiment held by many.

Roll on tomorrow when Liz releases good news for all 😀

In reply to Post #275
I'm not defending Labour. I am taking the piss out of you for holding up a fictional character from the 70's as some kind of measure of where we are today. Comprehend that, Jason!

In reply to Post #276
And what do you think I've been doing to you on this thread talk about gullible you clearly love a well presented wafter if only I had this much success on the bank.

Tortes are in power suck it up and get used to it for the next decade 😀

In reply to Post #276
If we're measuring things by 70's TV, how would Alf react to a Tory leader who's dad was an extreme Wolfie Smith

In reply to Post #277


Oh yes, it's all been so subtle, perhaps your post 242 being the highlight. You ruddy genius, you.

You'd best build up some strength for tomorrow in advance of pissing your pants with excitement when your precious PM announces she's giving £100bn of taxpayers money to energy companies.

Goodnight Alf.

In reply to Post #279
Yes and lowering taxes to get more businesses to invest in the uk rather than sticking them up like France .

So we get more investment and more jobs try and focus on the long game

In full

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-62820187

Night Tim.

In reply to Post #273
Yeah ... the 2 dimensional racist 1960s sit com character is definitely the best judge of the current situation....



I'm not sure if you really believe some of the things you post. But then we live in a country with voters that fell for Boris' lies time and again so.....

In reply to Post #273
I liked the 2 ronnies

In reply to Post #266
She's definitely not as nasty as patel, however she is thick as pig shi*t by comparison which arguably makes her more dangerous.

In reply to Post #282
So did I but alas racist.....

https://www.stroudnewsandjournal.co.uk/news/16973222.headteacher-apologises-racist-two-ronnies-clip-shown-school/

In reply to Post #284
But that was then this is now

In reply to Post #273
I must admit this did tickle me, of all the famous people, or famous quotes, your person of choice was Alf Garnett 🤣

In reply to Post #286
Tells a story

In reply to Post #286
Indeed but Alf Garnett was the work of scriptwriter Johnny Speight who portrayed the sentiment of the publics feelings towards labour. We've gone full circle now .

In reply to Post #273
Alf Garnett was a comedy character, not a documentary.

I feel I'm going to disappoint you no end - you might even end up selling your tour tickets on ebay - but Joe Lycett isn't really 'very right wing'.

Sorry.

In reply to Post #288
The irony is warren mitchell is now a labour supporter 🤣

In reply to Post #279
I think Starmer closed her on that in PMQ
It's what she said she was going to do.

In reply to Post #288
The writer and the actor both spoke about their disgust toward the character and what he stood for. He was set up as a figure of ridicule not a role model.

Unfortunately too many people couldn't see past the fact he was 'just like me' .... they probably believed Johnson's lies too....

In reply to Post #292
Oh.indeed.

Mitchell was a famous left wing Liberal intellectual, spurs supporter Jewish family though atheist himself.

Speight himself was a campaigning socialist.

Most.knew the joke was ON Alf.

But there is a history of this sort of thing going right over some people heads. And the lampooned character being picked up as a hero.

An example.is Harry Enfields Loads of.Money. he was appalled.and dropped the character.

Though personally I'm not entirely convinced that these writers are against getting laughs from both sides.

Gervais has made a whole career out-of it..

In reply to Post #293
Four lions comes to mind....

In reply to Post #293
Yes

In reply to Post #295
Bills capped to £2500

Help for businesses also.

Well done Liz 👍

In reply to Post #296
It's not a cap.

It's an estimate for the average household, and higher users will pay more. £2,500 is probably near to double what most already pay.

Unknown what happens after a) 2 years for households and b) 6 months for businesses.

You, me, our kids and grandkids will be paying off the £100bn+ she's borrowing to maintain disgusting energy company profits for a long, long time.

In reply to Post #296
Is the bill for this being shared between the UK tax payer and the unexpected excess profits from UK energy provider's?

In reply to Post #298
Now now girls we don't need all that fud that's dribbling from your mouths.

She has delivered savings for hard working families and businesses, case closed.

Anything further you say is completely irrelevant remembering the title of this thread.

In reply to Post #298
Apparently not. But she can't do that. She just campaigned against distribution of wealth. That is what got her chosen.

This may be a Poll tax style error.

In reply to Post #299
No she hasn't, and there's no need to double down.

We'll all be paying this off for decades, to maintain energy firm profits.

If you're OK with that, just say so - at least you'd be being honest about it.

In reply to Post #298
The energy companies are already being taxed 65% in the £ now from the present “Windfall tax”


Starmer want to increase it even more! I know what any business would do in that that situation when they are selling a product that's in extreme demand “Go find another supplier - were off, sod supplying the UK”

Truss could fund the lot if they changed the rules on the royals paying inheritance tax. She'll have to get her skates on, mind.

How much tax do oil companies pay?

Oil and gas firms operating in the North Sea are taxed differently to other firms.

Taxes on their profits are higher - they pay 30% corporation tax on their profits and a supplementary 10% rate on top of that. Other firms currently pay corporation tax at 19%.

But oil and gas firms have been able to reduce the amount of tax they pay by factoring in losses or spending on things like decommissioning North Sea oil platforms.

In recent years, such methods have meant that BP and Shell, for example, have paid almost no tax in the UK.

BP and Shell both received more money back from the UK government than they paid every year from 2015 to 2020 (except 2017, when Shell paid more than it received). Shell also paid a negative amount of tax in 2021 - BP has yet to publish its figures for last year.

How much have energy firms been making?
BP reported its biggest quarterly profit for 14 years, making £6.9bn in the three months to June.

Shell recorded even higher second quarter profits of £9bn.

However, despite the profits, the majority of the April to June takings won't be hit by the government's windfall tax as it only applies from 26 May.

Not sure about anyone else, but I'd be quite happy to see greedy energy companies remove their operations from the UK Continental Shelf where they extract oil and gas and instead replace them with a nationalised firm for the benefit of all of us, instead.

In reply to Post #302
If you generate electricity from wind, solar, nuclear etc not by gas Keith, or drill for oil and your profits spike by billions upon billions of pounds because of a war. No company worth it's salt would just up and off when asked to contribute some of the excess to help an artificial situation. If they did good riddance and don't let the door hit you on the arse on the way out

Personally I think it should have been a taxpayer/ unearned profits joint contribution.

In reply to Post #299
Savings??

The "plan" in a nutshell;

1. Borrow £130bn.
2. Give it to energy giants who just got an unearned £170bn windfall.
3. Energy bills still go up at least 80%.
4. We then repay that £130bn loan from our tax.
5. Meanwhile she cuts tax in a way that benefits the rich 235x more than the poor.

Genius......

In reply to Post #307
I have a daughter a single working mum with 3 kids mate yes this will save her money. 👍

This is the reason why labour are not in power too bloody negative.

In reply to Post #306
You give any Private company a monopoly of a commodity that is a necessity, one a modern society cannot do without, and they will milk the situation for the benefit of maximum Profit and the Shareholders every time – that's the way it is Ocelot.

It's crap, it stinks, it's immoral - there's sod all anyone can do about it as there's no political party that has the will to do anything about it.



As I said in an earlier post – Gas, Electric & Water should not be in Private Companies hands BUT nor should they be in Public Hands either. They should be fully independent with no shareholder or Union Involvement whatsoever.

In reply to Post #309
How will she be saving money if she'll shortly be paying roughly twice as much on energy bills than she was a year ago?

In reply to Post #309
Negative = Realistic.

In reply to Post #308
Yes that sounds fair,

In reply to Post #311
You still living at home with mum and dad mate ?

The bills have been going up since last year.....

In reply to Post #299
£2500 is more than it is now. Tell me how that increase is a saving for hard working families...

In reply to Post #315
The rich won't freeze

In reply to Post #314
I don't think you've understood my point........mate.

How will today's energy price announcement lead to savings for your daughter when she will soon be paying nearly twice as much as a year ago?

In reply to Post #317
But it's been going up in increments since last year. Currently paying around £150

And we are helping her.

But now we won't have to dig as deep in our pockets as we would have had if no cap came in.

Is it crystal now ?

In reply to Post #315
It's not the £3549 you entitled this thread with.

In reply to Post #310
Clearly this Truss government hasn't will to make the big decisions, she claims it's bold, I see it as a weak choice.
You get what you vote for.

In reply to Post #319
But nobody is saving any money, you might not be paying as much as what was predicted, but it's more than it is now