Does anyone know if Nash Scopex No 1 is the same as the original.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Gary Bayes probably does, or his young apprentice Max Hendry.
In reply to Post #2
The only other living person might be John Baker, I believe he was involved in Rod Hutchinson's early sourcing and experiments with the ScopeX.
The only other living person might be John Baker, I believe he was involved in Rod Hutchinson's early sourcing and experiments with the ScopeX.
In reply to Post #1
Nothing is the same.
Nothing is the same.
In reply to Post #4
Jason Rider may also know?
Jason Rider may also know?
In reply to Post #3
I believe JB Toppex is the one, worth a call
I believe JB Toppex is the one, worth a call
In reply to Post #6
I bought some after hearing his podcast. It smells similar, but not the same as the original imo.
I bought some after hearing his podcast. It smells similar, but not the same as the original imo.
In reply to Post #7
Think I might have an unused bottle of Toppex in the garage, I must go and have a look and a good sniff !
Think I might have an unused bottle of Toppex in the garage, I must go and have a look and a good sniff !
In reply to Post #6
Toppex is nothing like the original Scopex. It's very strong.
Toppex is nothing like the original Scopex. It's very strong.
In reply to Post #1
Not a clue. Fairly certain its around 5 times the price
Not a clue. Fairly certain its around 5 times the price
In reply to Post #9
JB also mentioned in one of his podcasts that topper isn't the original scopex. He promised RH never to sell the original recipe
JB also mentioned in one of his podcasts that topper isn't the original scopex. He promised RH never to sell the original recipe
In reply to Post #11
No, I'm pretty sure he said Toppex was the original Scopex, but he had not made people aware of it whilst Rod was alive.....either way, it doesn't smell exactly the same to me.
No, I'm pretty sure he said Toppex was the original Scopex, but he had not made people aware of it whilst Rod was alive.....either way, it doesn't smell exactly the same to me.
In reply to Post #1
Wasn't there an ingredient that was banned so they had to alter the formula.
Diacetyl...
Wasn't there an ingredient that was banned so they had to alter the formula.
Diacetyl...
In reply to Post #13
Correct, it caused a condition known as 'popcorn lung'.
https://www.foodnavigator.com/Article/2012/08/03/Butter-flavouring-linked-to-key-Alzheimer-s-process
This is available:
https://www.cake-stuff.com/item/6497/BeauBaking/CREAMY-BUTTER-icing-food-flavouring-40ml.html
How much would this cost with a carp label?
Correct, it caused a condition known as 'popcorn lung'.
https://www.foodnavigator.com/Article/2012/08/03/Butter-flavouring-linked-to-key-Alzheimer-s-process
This is available:
https://www.cake-stuff.com/item/6497/BeauBaking/CREAMY-BUTTER-icing-food-flavouring-40ml.html
How much would this cost with a carp label?
In reply to Post #12
This is what he said word by word:
Some of these early flavours came from a wonderful old-fashioned company called Perlarom, who were based in Croydon. Interestingly, the company — sadly no longer in business — also helped me develop a flavour called Scopex, for Rod Hutchinson. I promised Rod that I would never sell the recipe commercially during his lifetime, and although it has been copied by many different bait companies throughout Europe, I can guarantee that none are the same as my original version. My conscience is clear, and I now make my own version. Out of respect for Rod,
This is what he said word by word:
Some of these early flavours came from a wonderful old-fashioned company called Perlarom, who were based in Croydon. Interestingly, the company — sadly no longer in business — also helped me develop a flavour called Scopex, for Rod Hutchinson. I promised Rod that I would never sell the recipe commercially during his lifetime, and although it has been copied by many different bait companies throughout Europe, I can guarantee that none are the same as my original version. My conscience is clear, and I now make my own version. Out of respect for Rod,
In reply to Post #15
That was what I understood as well....
That was what I understood as well....
In reply to Post #14
Been there with those!!
I've tried a couple of the Beau Baking flavours. Unfortunately they're quite diluted and I was pretty underwhelmed. The Milk Chocolate one is based on triacetin too, but I was very disappointed with it.
Been there with those!!
I've tried a couple of the Beau Baking flavours. Unfortunately they're quite diluted and I was pretty underwhelmed. The Milk Chocolate one is based on triacetin too, but I was very disappointed with it.
In reply to Post #15
Bare in mind he's also said that he was behind Monster Crab, and was the first person to introduce the Shrimp Extract (untrue) and krill meal.
And as for the 'rules' on his syndicate water........
Bare in mind he's also said that he was behind Monster Crab, and was the first person to introduce the Shrimp Extract (untrue) and krill meal.
And as for the 'rules' on his syndicate water........
In reply to Post #13
Diacteyl is banned in vaping flavours as it affects the lungs, but it can still be used in other flavours, for food for instance. Is it effective for carp, yes in my opinion, and if you can get hold of a data sheet or ingredient list for a flavour you will be able to find out if it is present in a flavour.
Diacetin is a flavour base that you don't see very often, the original Hutchinson Scopex was on a diacetin base, most current ones are on a mpg base, including Scopex no1.
Diacteyl is banned in vaping flavours as it affects the lungs, but it can still be used in other flavours, for food for instance. Is it effective for carp, yes in my opinion, and if you can get hold of a data sheet or ingredient list for a flavour you will be able to find out if it is present in a flavour.
Diacetin is a flavour base that you don't see very often, the original Hutchinson Scopex was on a diacetin base, most current ones are on a mpg base, including Scopex no1.
In reply to Post #16
Conversation I had was it's as good as, his version is double strength so like he says, err on the low side
Conversation I had was it's as good as, his version is double strength so like he says, err on the low side
In reply to Post #17
I've ordered a bottle, as for dilution, it's no different to using sparingly in my mind,err on the side of caution.
Anyway,I'm just curious,I've got a bottle of Toppex to compare too.
I've ordered a bottle, as for dilution, it's no different to using sparingly in my mind,err on the side of caution.
Anyway,I'm just curious,I've got a bottle of Toppex to compare too.
In reply to Post #21
I just can't believe what he says.... he's selling something.
I just can't believe what he says.... he's selling something.
You'd have thought that Gary Bayes should have known exactly the makeup of the original Scopex, seeing as worked for Hutchy?
In reply to Post #23
Thought there was collaboration between nash and Hutchinson years back over flavours,
When there was discussions over who owns what flavours
Thought there was collaboration between nash and Hutchinson years back over flavours,
When there was discussions over who owns what flavours
In reply to Post #22
Who, me ?
Who, me ?
In reply to Post #25
JB
JB
In reply to Post #24
Bear in mind the final history between Nash and Hutchy, I somehow doubt any gentleman's agreement was stuck to...
Bear in mind the final history between Nash and Hutchy, I somehow doubt any gentleman's agreement was stuck to...
In reply to Post #25
Sorry, I meant JB
Sorry, I meant JB
In reply to Post #27
True
True
In reply to Post #23
That's what I'd of thought.
That's what I'd of thought.
In reply to Post #22
I'd be more inclined to believe somebody who has been in the industry most of his life who's prime subject is flavours than some of the people on the internet
Not had a lot of dealings with him at all but when i have I have found him to be a fair and honest bloke, more than helpful, end of the day he wants his customers to get the best out of his products
I'd be more inclined to believe somebody who has been in the industry most of his life who's prime subject is flavours than some of the people on the internet
Not had a lot of dealings with him at all but when i have I have found him to be a fair and honest bloke, more than helpful, end of the day he wants his customers to get the best out of his products
In reply to Post #31
Yes I had a couple of noddy questions and he helped me out
Yes I had a couple of noddy questions and he helped me out
HowflavoursworkPt2
I think Nash and Bakers scopex would be the go to options.
Its worth remembering JB never relied on the bait company to make a living and I doubt his pension is dependent on selling a few bottles of flavour.
I think Nash and Bakers scopex would be the go to options.
Its worth remembering JB never relied on the bait company to make a living and I doubt his pension is dependent on selling a few bottles of flavour.
In reply to Post #33
Just out of curiosity. What is/was JB main income?
Just out of curiosity. What is/was JB main income?
Finance.
I too have found him to be very helpful , always replys to my emails and has helped with an exceptional barbel bait which although not cheap it has helped me catch some huge fish , and my confidence in it is 100% , if i blank its my location 5hats prob at fault not the bait
A
A
I've probably 10 different Scopex flavours including a partial bottle of the original Catchum red label bottle. To my nose the only thing that currently smells like the original way back in the late 80's is Korda's goo, not sure of the name but it's red in colour.
I've also used Diacetyl on its own as a flavour, it's caught but whether it was down to a visual effect or the smell/taste I'm not sure.
I've also used Diacetyl on its own as a flavour, it's caught but whether it was down to a visual effect or the smell/taste I'm not sure.
I've read a recipe for scopex but it's on paper so far too much faff to write down here,a whole heap of chemicals, it's in Jason Riders book FYI.
In reply to Post #38
A picture is more easy
A picture is more easy
In reply to Post #38
Is that his new book he released back in aug this yeah .
Been trying get hold of a copy if you know anywhere or want rid for a price . ..
Ether way been having this scopex debate over 15 years with brother. He was a die hard scopex squid boy outfished me all time on it and always cought against my baits ...
Last 15 + years iv been saying its not the same not the og and far from it . He still uses to this day intill last week he fianaly let me get him a single kg of hydra k to try what iv raited highly last few years . now im starting to think evan that is not the original myself , seams to changed no smell etc
Is that his new book he released back in aug this yeah .
Been trying get hold of a copy if you know anywhere or want rid for a price . ..
Ether way been having this scopex debate over 15 years with brother. He was a die hard scopex squid boy outfished me all time on it and always cought against my baits ...
Last 15 + years iv been saying its not the same not the og and far from it . He still uses to this day intill last week he fianaly let me get him a single kg of hydra k to try what iv raited highly last few years . now im starting to think evan that is not the original myself , seams to changed no smell etc
In reply to Post #40
Have a look on the website, or arsebook, I think there's a copy or two left.
Have a look on the website, or arsebook, I think there's a copy or two left.
The butter cream flavour from the confectioners has arrived, it's not exactly a true test but it's 'different' to JB Toppex.
I put some in with some tigers to soak.
I put some in with some tigers to soak.
In reply to Post #39
In reply to Post #43
In reply to Post #44
Except what is specified in gr like vanillin, the measurment arent specified ? Is it ml ?
Maybe you can take the whole page in picture, as its just specified to dilute 5:1 for the first recipe, but nothing for the second .
Looking at what's in the second recipe, it's sure it's stimulating for the carp
Except what is specified in gr like vanillin, the measurment arent specified ? Is it ml ?
Maybe you can take the whole page in picture, as its just specified to dilute 5:1 for the first recipe, but nothing for the second .
Looking at what's in the second recipe, it's sure it's stimulating for the carp
In reply to Post #45
That's all there is.
"G to volume" refers to PG
That's all there is.
"G to volume" refers to PG
In reply to Post #44
If he doesn't get the compounding sequence/formulation you're nothing with the recipe.
Compounding a flavour determines the outcome.
2 weeks ago, I talked to a flavourists from multinational.
He says you can option completely 2 different flavour by compounding in the wrong/other sequence.
It prevents/cause reactions between the different compounds.
If he doesn't get the compounding sequence/formulation you're nothing with the recipe.
Compounding a flavour determines the outcome.
2 weeks ago, I talked to a flavourists from multinational.
He says you can option completely 2 different flavour by compounding in the wrong/other sequence.
It prevents/cause reactions between the different compounds.
In reply to Post #47
You're welcome
You're welcome
In reply to Post #42
any feedback from the "butter cream flavour from the confectioners" ?
many thanks for posting pics re scopex ingr/list from Jason Riders book!
i have the RH original scopex from the mid-80's (nothing comes near to it with what is currently available)
...if Jason Rider claims that it can be made to the exact "original" then why does he not sell it say in minimum 500ml bottles ?
i'm a tightwad and even i would pay 70 quid
for a 500ml bottle!
hes a bizman, and the above would be a good biz for him.
personally i do not believe you will ever be able to make the "original Scopex" as others have said cos of new EU rules etc...that forbid certain ingredients ...
any feedback from the "butter cream flavour from the confectioners" ?
many thanks for posting pics re scopex ingr/list from Jason Riders book!
i have the RH original scopex from the mid-80's (nothing comes near to it with what is currently available)
...if Jason Rider claims that it can be made to the exact "original" then why does he not sell it say in minimum 500ml bottles ?
i'm a tightwad and even i would pay 70 quid
for a 500ml bottle!hes a bizman, and the above would be a good biz for him.
personally i do not believe you will ever be able to make the "original Scopex" as others have said cos of new EU rules etc...that forbid certain ingredients ...
In reply to Post #49
I've not tried it in a rolled bait, I added a drop or two with condensed and evaporated milk to soak nuts in and caught but there's no way of telling if that was the catalyst.
Beau "Creamy butter" flavour .
I've not tried it in a rolled bait, I added a drop or two with condensed and evaporated milk to soak nuts in and caught but there's no way of telling if that was the catalyst.
Beau "Creamy butter" flavour .
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