I have just found out that the ULEZ area is going to be extended to cover Hillingdon where I live in 2023
but my car is not ULEZ compliant despite the fact it had a brand new Factory fitted engine that cost over 4 grand under warrantee just after I bought it and I have maintained it regardless of cost (just put 4 new Michelin tyres on it and its an estate car that my Fox explorer barrow wheels straight in the back
I love this car I know I could drive to Scotland and back without a seconds worry its serviced regularly I thought it would see me out for my remaining years
now I just dont know what the hell Im going to replace it with that I can afford and thats not much at all !
I would want AC and be able to drive my barrow in the back BUT DONT WANT a Van
any suggestions ? would my barrow go in a Berlingo ?
any suggestions? I got a year to save up some of my crappy pension lol
but my car is not ULEZ compliant despite the fact it had a brand new Factory fitted engine that cost over 4 grand under warrantee just after I bought it and I have maintained it regardless of cost (just put 4 new Michelin tyres on it and its an estate car that my Fox explorer barrow wheels straight in the back
I love this car I know I could drive to Scotland and back without a seconds worry its serviced regularly I thought it would see me out for my remaining years
now I just dont know what the hell Im going to replace it with that I can afford and thats not much at all !
I would want AC and be able to drive my barrow in the back BUT DONT WANT a Van
any suggestions ? would my barrow go in a Berlingo ?
any suggestions? I got a year to save up some of my crappy pension lol
In reply to Post #1
I would wait until they make it 100% official it's only proposed at the moment.
LINK
If it goes ahead how often would you use your vehicle?
Rather than sell it and not get much for it because it's not compliant and then buy another much more expensive vehicle it might be worth just paying the £12.50 on the days you use it.
If you use it every day then it's a no brainer, get shot.
I would wait until they make it 100% official it's only proposed at the moment.
LINK
If it goes ahead how often would you use your vehicle?
Rather than sell it and not get much for it because it's not compliant and then buy another much more expensive vehicle it might be worth just paying the £12.50 on the days you use it.
If you use it every day then it's a no brainer, get shot.
Knowing that idiot in charge he'll be extending it all the way out to the M25 👎👎
I'm actually largely in support for a movement towards an extended ULEZ. Yes it's really a money making scheme, but it will have an effect on the fairly horrific pollution that our kids have to breathe in London.
However, there must be exceptions for those like you OG. Somebody on a pension who relies on their vehicle should either be exempt for the remaining life of that vehicle or given useful financial support to replace it.
As Tinhead says, I wouldn't panic just yet as it's only a proposal at this stage.
However, there must be exceptions for those like you OG. Somebody on a pension who relies on their vehicle should either be exempt for the remaining life of that vehicle or given useful financial support to replace it.
As Tinhead says, I wouldn't panic just yet as it's only a proposal at this stage.
In reply to Post #3
There is a section that actually does cover a couple of hundred yards of the M25 below the m4 junction. If it gets passed then it will cause chaos.
There is a section that actually does cover a couple of hundred yards of the M25 below the m4 junction. If it gets passed then it will cause chaos.
In reply to Post #1
I had a berlingo multi space used it with barra for 5 years carp Porter mk 2
I had a berlingo multi space used it with barra for 5 years carp Porter mk 2
In reply to Post #5
Wasn't aware of that so just looked for it and found it. Surely they'll have to make that bit exempt or as you say they'll be chaos.
Those residents just outside the ULEZ are not going to be happy with the displaced traffic avoiding the charge.
Thread about displaced traffic
Wasn't aware of that so just looked for it and found it. Surely they'll have to make that bit exempt or as you say they'll be chaos.
Those residents just outside the ULEZ are not going to be happy with the displaced traffic avoiding the charge.
Thread about displaced traffic
Like I said I don't think they care
I remember my friend a few years ago working in Paddington and his normal route was free from the contestions charge, there was then some road works going on and it diverted cars into the contestions zone which my friend didn't know and was billed for the amount,he did appeal this but it was rejected.
A modern day robbing highwaymen
I remember my friend a few years ago working in Paddington and his normal route was free from the contestions charge, there was then some road works going on and it diverted cars into the contestions zone which my friend didn't know and was billed for the amount,he did appeal this but it was rejected.
A modern day robbing highwaymen
In reply to Post #1
Posts 2 and 4 very good, good luck pensioners must be protected, how can that be fair
Posts 2 and 4 very good, good luck pensioners must be protected, how can that be fair
In reply to Post #1
In reply to Post #1
What car is it you have now? May give us a clue for other options.
My superb estate is non compliant and the current ulez zone pretty much already killed it's value (I live on the outskirts of London, just inside the m25). But if the extension is allowed then I'm expecting it will come almost worthless locally so will have to trade it miles away.
I don't agree with the charges, what's more polluting....
1 a euro 5 diesel like mine doing approx 3k miles a year
Or
2 a euro 6 petrol doing 10k miles a year
It really is just a money making exercise as us motorists keep paying this rubbish.
And this is on top of second hand car prices being inflated due to chip shortages causing delays on brand new cars. Give us a scrappage incentive that can be used on second hand cars and if the government are serious about wanting to reduce pollution then make it a generous incentive for those that have had their car for more than 2 years.
What car is it you have now? May give us a clue for other options.
My superb estate is non compliant and the current ulez zone pretty much already killed it's value (I live on the outskirts of London, just inside the m25). But if the extension is allowed then I'm expecting it will come almost worthless locally so will have to trade it miles away.
I don't agree with the charges, what's more polluting....
1 a euro 5 diesel like mine doing approx 3k miles a year
Or
2 a euro 6 petrol doing 10k miles a year
It really is just a money making exercise as us motorists keep paying this rubbish.
And this is on top of second hand car prices being inflated due to chip shortages causing delays on brand new cars. Give us a scrappage incentive that can be used on second hand cars and if the government are serious about wanting to reduce pollution then make it a generous incentive for those that have had their car for more than 2 years.
In reply to Post #11
What car is it you have now? May give us a clue for other options.
its a Peugeot 406 Rapier 110 HDI the model with all the extras as standard superbly comfortable superb on long motorway journeys and so economical
What car is it you have now? May give us a clue for other options.
its a Peugeot 406 Rapier 110 HDI the model with all the extras as standard superbly comfortable superb on long motorway journeys and so economical
In reply to Post #12
I had a 406 hdi before the skoda superb and loved it, only changed to move to a bit more luxury and an auto. But the superb does have quite a lot more load space and is more comfortable in my opinion, elegance spec on the older models has a ton of kit.
If you can find an earlier superb petrol it will be ulez compliant but not quite as economical. Else not sure if there are many 406 petrols around that you could find similar.
Personally I'm holding out until it's confirmed before jumping ship I think, unless something perfect comes up at a good price........ Which is unlikely at the moment although prices are dropping a little on some second hand cars
I had a 406 hdi before the skoda superb and loved it, only changed to move to a bit more luxury and an auto. But the superb does have quite a lot more load space and is more comfortable in my opinion, elegance spec on the older models has a ton of kit.
If you can find an earlier superb petrol it will be ulez compliant but not quite as economical. Else not sure if there are many 406 petrols around that you could find similar.
Personally I'm holding out until it's confirmed before jumping ship I think, unless something perfect comes up at a good price........ Which is unlikely at the moment although prices are dropping a little on some second hand cars
In reply to Post #12
Yeah, it's crap what TFL are doing but there's nowt you can do to stop it.
I can't think of a single petrol estate car that can equal your cars economy so you need to make a decision. You either buy a eu6 complant diesel (2016 onwards) or get a petrol that'll do a lot less MPG but be compliant and be less initial outlay. I guess you don't do a lot of miles so the petrol option seems best.
There's going to be a lot of people in the same boat as you so prices of compliant vehicles will artificially spike in the area... And it won't get better if you hold out... When you find something suitable and in budget don't hang about or you'll lose it. You also need to expect the value of your own car to dip due to an influx of similar non compliant vehicles on the S/H market.
Yeah, it's crap what TFL are doing but there's nowt you can do to stop it.
I can't think of a single petrol estate car that can equal your cars economy so you need to make a decision. You either buy a eu6 complant diesel (2016 onwards) or get a petrol that'll do a lot less MPG but be compliant and be less initial outlay. I guess you don't do a lot of miles so the petrol option seems best.
There's going to be a lot of people in the same boat as you so prices of compliant vehicles will artificially spike in the area... And it won't get better if you hold out... When you find something suitable and in budget don't hang about or you'll lose it. You also need to expect the value of your own car to dip due to an influx of similar non compliant vehicles on the S/H market.
In reply to Post #14
406 petrol is euro 3 so no good needs to be euro 4
406 petrol is euro 3 so no good needs to be euro 4
In reply to Post #1
Move out of that ****hole called London! Feel for you mate, the goalposts are forever moving. Best thing we did was move to.SW France.
Move out of that ****hole called London! Feel for you mate, the goalposts are forever moving. Best thing we did was move to.SW France.
I'd hang on if I were you. I don't see it happening. Record fuel costs, record food costs, record gas and electric costs. Can you imagine any Mayor actually getting re-elected by standing on the platform of also costing everyone an extra 12.50 a day. I think it will get quietly shelved. This is an exercise to keep the virtue signalling middle class Greta worshippers of Hampstead happy in a hope to buy Mr Khan votes from a section of Londoners who'd never vote for him normally. Ironically the people who would normally vote for him are the ones that are most likely to be affected by it. Lower income, older vehicles, paying a bigger proportion of income on food & power. Tarquin and Jocasta from Kensington aren't gonna give a **** about £12.50 a day and their new Range Rover Is Euro6 anyway.
On a more positive note at least the lakes just fall outside it.
On a more positive note at least the lakes just fall outside it.
In reply to Post #17
He won another term in 2021 with the threat of widening to N/S circulars in Oct '22
He won another term in 2021 with the threat of widening to N/S circulars in Oct '22
In reply to Post #17
Wayne
Trust me you are never Ever going to get rid of the London mayor !
Wayne
Trust me you are never Ever going to get rid of the London mayor !
In reply to Post #18
Yes but we were in a very different financial position in 21 to how we will be in 23. We might be in a full blown recession by then.
I agree that you won't see the back of him for years yet. But he might bow to pressure and delay or row back on some of his polices if they look like they might be hurts his core voters.
Yes but we were in a very different financial position in 21 to how we will be in 23. We might be in a full blown recession by then.
I agree that you won't see the back of him for years yet. But he might bow to pressure and delay or row back on some of his polices if they look like they might be hurts his core voters.
TFL are skint they keep getting bailed out by the tax payer so it will go either way
The government will either say yes or no into extending the zone on condition of giving them millions of pounds
Or tfl will give it bollox and do it anyhow
The government will either say yes or no into extending the zone on condition of giving them millions of pounds
Or tfl will give it bollox and do it anyhow
I've got a old petrol Crv,if I wanted to visit family ,say in Battersea,...what's the spec ,am I allowed to drive my Honda up there or no ,I don't know much about this emissions thing..
Also nearly every village I know of has gone 20mph zones,I reckon its the beginning of what the car owners in city's are facing now ..
They want people out of the car don't they ,under and using what ever guise they can find . .am I incorrect ?
Also nearly every village I know of has gone 20mph zones,I reckon its the beginning of what the car owners in city's are facing now ..
They want people out of the car don't they ,under and using what ever guise they can find . .am I incorrect ?
Go on the tfl web site and type your reg in and it will tell you
In reply to Post #22
Enter your reg number HERE
Don't get ULEZ and Congestion Charge mixed up though. Battersea is not in the Congestion Charge zone so you don't have to concern yourself with that.
Enter your reg number HERE
Don't get ULEZ and Congestion Charge mixed up though. Battersea is not in the Congestion Charge zone so you don't have to concern yourself with that.
In reply to Post #24
Cheers Tinhead...
( I've never driven in London,but keep being invited up ,to stay and fish on the Thames)
Right if I've done this right ,it's 15 to 17.50 quid for congestion, and I don't have to pay a ULEZ..
probably go by train ,or bus maybe 🤔
Cheers Tinhead...
( I've never driven in London,but keep being invited up ,to stay and fish on the Thames)
Right if I've done this right ,it's 15 to 17.50 quid for congestion, and I don't have to pay a ULEZ..
probably go by train ,or bus maybe 🤔
In reply to Post #25
Unlike diesel a lot of old petrol cars are ULEZ compliant.
My son had an old petrol Renault Clio 2002 plate and that was compliant
Unlike diesel a lot of old petrol cars are ULEZ compliant.
My son had an old petrol Renault Clio 2002 plate and that was compliant
In reply to Post #1
The gift that keeps on giving.
It's all but shelved up here in Manchester, at least for the immediate future. It was about to become the biggest clean air zone in the UK at 493 sq miles but a massive backlash on face ache by 80k people seems to have kicked it on the head, atleast for now. I really don't understand why there's not been more militant protest in London to get it canned there.
That pleb of a mayor and his 'jobs for the boys' TFL is a bottomless pit that will continue to suck on your pocket to pay bloated salaries and pensions for his lefty mates.
Outrageous in the current climate (pun intended)
The gift that keeps on giving.
It's all but shelved up here in Manchester, at least for the immediate future. It was about to become the biggest clean air zone in the UK at 493 sq miles but a massive backlash on face ache by 80k people seems to have kicked it on the head, atleast for now. I really don't understand why there's not been more militant protest in London to get it canned there.
That pleb of a mayor and his 'jobs for the boys' TFL is a bottomless pit that will continue to suck on your pocket to pay bloated salaries and pensions for his lefty mates.
Outrageous in the current climate (pun intended)
In reply to Post #28
Because people who actually live in the city wouldn't mind less vehicles and a bit of that clean air?
Because people who actually live in the city wouldn't mind less vehicles and a bit of that clean air?
It wouod definitely be a shame for.me. I have the perfect fishing van. Peugeot expert Tepee. Diesel,.sips fuel
9 years old but only 55000. Dark grey windows
One rear seat for my kid, even a full.size wheelchair ramp
Built in.
I only use it to drive Away from town and only for fishing. I'm in Bexley and right on the border of this new ULEZ.
Daft.thing is.my 1.4. 2012 petrol fiesta is deemed as.fine but I drive that all day. Whereas the van does about about 2k a year.
I'm.hoping I cam find a route out with no cameras
9 years old but only 55000. Dark grey windows
One rear seat for my kid, even a full.size wheelchair ramp
Built in.
I only use it to drive Away from town and only for fishing. I'm in Bexley and right on the border of this new ULEZ.
Daft.thing is.my 1.4. 2012 petrol fiesta is deemed as.fine but I drive that all day. Whereas the van does about about 2k a year.
I'm.hoping I cam find a route out with no cameras
In reply to Post #29
And no doubt rely upon trains and trams instead to get to work which are eye wateringly expensive and/or not in service due to driver operator strikes.
And no doubt rely upon trains and trams instead to get to work which are eye wateringly expensive and/or not in service due to driver operator strikes.
In reply to Post #31
An unlimited travel card is £147 per month. Not that extortionate compared to two full tanks of fuel at current prices. I live in Zone 2 but need a vehicle for work so switched to one with a tiny petrol engine. Slow as hell, but everywhere is 20mph now, ULEZ compliant and cheap to run. If you want to draw the milk from the big city teat there is going to be some compromise.
The fact that up to 500,000 children in London have been forced to breathe illegally toxic air warrants a financial tariff on those who chose to live outside the city but want to drive their vehicles in every day clogging up the roads and polluting the air.
I appreciate I may be in the minority of somebody who actually lives in London having an opinion.
An unlimited travel card is £147 per month. Not that extortionate compared to two full tanks of fuel at current prices. I live in Zone 2 but need a vehicle for work so switched to one with a tiny petrol engine. Slow as hell, but everywhere is 20mph now, ULEZ compliant and cheap to run. If you want to draw the milk from the big city teat there is going to be some compromise.
The fact that up to 500,000 children in London have been forced to breathe illegally toxic air warrants a financial tariff on those who chose to live outside the city but want to drive their vehicles in every day clogging up the roads and polluting the air.
I appreciate I may be in the minority of somebody who actually lives in London having an opinion.
Where I am isn't isn't city. It may be a London Borough but its very much Kent. I back onto woodland with a golf course behind it. There are parks every other road. 3 mins down the nearby A road and its farmers fields of Dartford and Wilmington
In reply to Post #31
Let's face it , thay don't like cars so thay will price 30% of the roads then find some other poor sod to pay for cycle lanes that make congestion that makes more con gestion , its a London thing, soon be moving away 2 expensive
Let's face it , thay don't like cars so thay will price 30% of the roads then find some other poor sod to pay for cycle lanes that make congestion that makes more con gestion , its a London thing, soon be moving away 2 expensive
In reply to Post #29
I don't agree.
Any tax that has a financial penalty for polluting is ridiculous and will only ever punish the poorer.
Would you say that polluting our rivers would be OK if you paid a surcharge ever time you did it?
Is dumping rubbish OK in the countryside alright if you pay for it?
After covid - Brexit and the cost of living crisis this will be the final nail for many - another tax on Londoners, that has a knock on effect on its residents and shops etc. if you own a tackle shop just inside the zone you instantly alienate a huge proportion of customers, so you shut up shop and let AD kill the market.
If you have a pensioner in a tower block who's pleasure is a trip out with his grandson fishing in the suburbs then that's another thing that a choice between eating or family time.
Paying to pollute has to be the single worst policy ever. Stick to taxation on a fair scale - everyone to ensure that all future vehicles are kinder to the planet. Car sharing - subsidised rail / bus services, things that incentivise good behaviour.
The London mayors job is to look after Londoners, not posture on global Green agendas. Some of the countries poorest people live here. If you can afford to live in a Windsor estate, are you honestly thinking that thrashing a Ferrari around is OK and that Colin the painter should pay £12.50 a day to earn his £70?
COVID has killed the city - Khan is putting the finishing touches to it - making it into a ghost town full of £3 million pound penthouses. God help us.
I don't agree.
Any tax that has a financial penalty for polluting is ridiculous and will only ever punish the poorer.
Would you say that polluting our rivers would be OK if you paid a surcharge ever time you did it?
Is dumping rubbish OK in the countryside alright if you pay for it?
After covid - Brexit and the cost of living crisis this will be the final nail for many - another tax on Londoners, that has a knock on effect on its residents and shops etc. if you own a tackle shop just inside the zone you instantly alienate a huge proportion of customers, so you shut up shop and let AD kill the market.
If you have a pensioner in a tower block who's pleasure is a trip out with his grandson fishing in the suburbs then that's another thing that a choice between eating or family time.
Paying to pollute has to be the single worst policy ever. Stick to taxation on a fair scale - everyone to ensure that all future vehicles are kinder to the planet. Car sharing - subsidised rail / bus services, things that incentivise good behaviour.
The London mayors job is to look after Londoners, not posture on global Green agendas. Some of the countries poorest people live here. If you can afford to live in a Windsor estate, are you honestly thinking that thrashing a Ferrari around is OK and that Colin the painter should pay £12.50 a day to earn his £70?
COVID has killed the city - Khan is putting the finishing touches to it - making it into a ghost town full of £3 million pound penthouses. God help us.
In reply to Post #32
When we moved from London (about 1/2 mile from the A406) my daughters chest problems - which included numerous visits to A&E over the years, and Asthma - stopped completely. May be an edge case but what you're saying definitely holds water. We can't just keep polluting so dramatically and changes to behaviour needs to come from somewhere.
When we moved from London (about 1/2 mile from the A406) my daughters chest problems - which included numerous visits to A&E over the years, and Asthma - stopped completely. May be an edge case but what you're saying definitely holds water. We can't just keep polluting so dramatically and changes to behaviour needs to come from somewhere.
In reply to Post #19
Anyone that lives in that *****hole of a place could have foreseen this decades ago. I worked there in the 80's and it was like a third world country then. The older folk that were true Londoners were slowly dying off and anyone with half a brain was getting out of Dodge on the first available horse. Immigration has done more harm to the UK than the Luffewaffe, Black Death, Spanish Flu and both World Wars combined.
Anyone that lives in that *****hole of a place could have foreseen this decades ago. I worked there in the 80's and it was like a third world country then. The older folk that were true Londoners were slowly dying off and anyone with half a brain was getting out of Dodge on the first available horse. Immigration has done more harm to the UK than the Luffewaffe, Black Death, Spanish Flu and both World Wars combined.
In reply to Post #35
Wasn't that muppet of a mayor swanning about in the USA only a couple months ago looking at cannabis production and how he could legalise it over here?
Once again, you can't fault the bloke, obviously he has everyone's best health interests at heart while he puffed on a few spliffs dreaming about the tax he could rake in from those same people who he's been saving from dirty polluted car fumes.
Wasn't that muppet of a mayor swanning about in the USA only a couple months ago looking at cannabis production and how he could legalise it over here?
Once again, you can't fault the bloke, obviously he has everyone's best health interests at heart while he puffed on a few spliffs dreaming about the tax he could rake in from those same people who he's been saving from dirty polluted car fumes.
In reply to Post #32
A reasonable counter argument.
I live in suburbs and commute via train.
I think the flaw in your POV are every day Londoners going OUT of the city. If they are breathing Toxic levels then should they really pay £12.50 for a short trip to the country? That to me sounds ridiculous and counter productive.
Will this tax solely benefit the air pollution of Londoners now? Is it 100% used to do this - is it all invested in city Green initiatives. - I'm not convinced.
What would be a good idea is any vehicle registered within London would be exempt - let's face it if you stay in the zone you are polluting anyway going out makes things better and not worse. For anyone that does a tax return make it deductible expense - so you are not killing the lower paid and self employed.
Charge businesses £10k per year for any parking spaces they provide over a reasonable amount (shops etc would need a couple) but huge banks with underground parking should pay through the nose.
Spend every penny of the London green initiatives on Londoners. I love London and all it stands for - it is being milked by the rest of the country and the devolution of power has killed the city. London is the jewel of the UK crown - the PM should be governing our city from central government not subbing it out to some deluded wannabe. The ‘red wall' is where this Government won - selling its most valuable asset. If you have a conservative government and labour mayor (or visa versa) of course you will have agendas that are for parties not people.
A reasonable counter argument.
I live in suburbs and commute via train.
I think the flaw in your POV are every day Londoners going OUT of the city. If they are breathing Toxic levels then should they really pay £12.50 for a short trip to the country? That to me sounds ridiculous and counter productive.
Will this tax solely benefit the air pollution of Londoners now? Is it 100% used to do this - is it all invested in city Green initiatives. - I'm not convinced.
What would be a good idea is any vehicle registered within London would be exempt - let's face it if you stay in the zone you are polluting anyway going out makes things better and not worse. For anyone that does a tax return make it deductible expense - so you are not killing the lower paid and self employed.
Charge businesses £10k per year for any parking spaces they provide over a reasonable amount (shops etc would need a couple) but huge banks with underground parking should pay through the nose.
Spend every penny of the London green initiatives on Londoners. I love London and all it stands for - it is being milked by the rest of the country and the devolution of power has killed the city. London is the jewel of the UK crown - the PM should be governing our city from central government not subbing it out to some deluded wannabe. The ‘red wall' is where this Government won - selling its most valuable asset. If you have a conservative government and labour mayor (or visa versa) of course you will have agendas that are for parties not people.
In reply to Post #39
Mate London is a cesspit. I have the misfortune of working here, I'm in Mayfair at the moment. You couldn't pay me to live here. Making London vehicles exempt is ludicrous given the amount of Chelsea tractors and supercars driving around. The air quality here is awful so anything that may improve it is a bonus. This whole ulez thing isn't new, or hasn't been a secret. People should have been more proactive and sorted their vehicles out long before now
Mate London is a cesspit. I have the misfortune of working here, I'm in Mayfair at the moment. You couldn't pay me to live here. Making London vehicles exempt is ludicrous given the amount of Chelsea tractors and supercars driving around. The air quality here is awful so anything that may improve it is a bonus. This whole ulez thing isn't new, or hasn't been a secret. People should have been more proactive and sorted their vehicles out long before now
In reply to Post #37
Obviously immigration has brought this country many benefits and your comparisons are pretty extreme, but the conundrum here is that climate change / global warming - call it what you will - is only going to lead to increased migration, as places like the Middle East, Asia and Africa become uninhabitable. So some hard thinking and hard choices are required.
A lot - not all - of what 55s is saying makes sense to me.
Obviously immigration has brought this country many benefits and your comparisons are pretty extreme, but the conundrum here is that climate change / global warming - call it what you will - is only going to lead to increased migration, as places like the Middle East, Asia and Africa become uninhabitable. So some hard thinking and hard choices are required.
A lot - not all - of what 55s is saying makes sense to me.
In reply to Post #40
But that just stupid isn't it?
If they extend ULEZ you are incentivising people to drive polluting cars in a larger area without paying. You are effectively saying everywhere inside the M25 fill your boots and poison the air but don't bring your filthy car into Sevenoaks?
The inner London ULEZ was OK ish - but Khan has seen the cash cow. I am all for fair taxes - but I want the money raised to help the problem - not a pay to pollute.
This thread started with a London pensioner that may have to start to pay to go fishing if the zone is extended. As for the warning that is now - does he try and get a new vehicle and lose fortunes on his current one or stick and hope he doesn't have a totally worthless car in a couple of years.
For the record I live in the suburbs and have an ULEZ compliant fishing van. I work for a cancer charity, that cares for some of the poorest in the country. After covid and now the cost of living crisis - cancer care - in the city and soon the suburbs will be a choice between having your chemo or feeding the kids.
But that just stupid isn't it?
If they extend ULEZ you are incentivising people to drive polluting cars in a larger area without paying. You are effectively saying everywhere inside the M25 fill your boots and poison the air but don't bring your filthy car into Sevenoaks?
The inner London ULEZ was OK ish - but Khan has seen the cash cow. I am all for fair taxes - but I want the money raised to help the problem - not a pay to pollute.
This thread started with a London pensioner that may have to start to pay to go fishing if the zone is extended. As for the warning that is now - does he try and get a new vehicle and lose fortunes on his current one or stick and hope he doesn't have a totally worthless car in a couple of years.
For the record I live in the suburbs and have an ULEZ compliant fishing van. I work for a cancer charity, that cares for some of the poorest in the country. After covid and now the cost of living crisis - cancer care - in the city and soon the suburbs will be a choice between having your chemo or feeding the kids.
In reply to Post #32
The joys of living in zone 2, cheaper travel card
Zone 1 to 5 is £252 a month
Zone 1 to 6 is £270 a month
For most of my local driving includes supermarket to get shopping and taking stuff to my elderly parents. Yes it could be done with multiple bus trips but would also take far longer and be far more inconvenient.
I am on the border of countryside so the air is not so bad here, but 10mins in the other direction and I'd hit the A406 where current boundary is. No problem, I very rarely go inside and the rare occasion the fee is ok. Extend that out as planned and i can no longer use my car without further charge. Even this lovely diesel that the government told us all to buy years ago is now penalised
But vans and busses and general daily commuters are polluting FAR more than my car does each year from the far higher miles they do and probable time stuck in traffic jams.
I think a lot of this extra pollution you say children are forced to breathe is not helped by their parents. All these parents driving a short trip to drop them at school is ridiculous, let them walk and keep all these cars off the road causing chaos with silly parking and stopping where they want while burning fuel etc
The joys of living in zone 2, cheaper travel card
Zone 1 to 5 is £252 a month
Zone 1 to 6 is £270 a month
For most of my local driving includes supermarket to get shopping and taking stuff to my elderly parents. Yes it could be done with multiple bus trips but would also take far longer and be far more inconvenient.
I am on the border of countryside so the air is not so bad here, but 10mins in the other direction and I'd hit the A406 where current boundary is. No problem, I very rarely go inside and the rare occasion the fee is ok. Extend that out as planned and i can no longer use my car without further charge. Even this lovely diesel that the government told us all to buy years ago is now penalised
But vans and busses and general daily commuters are polluting FAR more than my car does each year from the far higher miles they do and probable time stuck in traffic jams.
I think a lot of this extra pollution you say children are forced to breathe is not helped by their parents. All these parents driving a short trip to drop them at school is ridiculous, let them walk and keep all these cars off the road causing chaos with silly parking and stopping where they want while burning fuel etc
In reply to Post #41
"Obviously immigration has brought this country many benefits"
Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of girls gang raped by those that must be pandered to.
Tell that to the relatives of all those blown to pieces, maimed or knifed to death..also you may tell those that are victims of acid attacks and scared for life.
Tell that to those that will never be able to afford their own home and will have to live in private rented accommodation as the council housing stock is immediately allocated to the newly arrived family of five.
Tell that to thousands of parents whose child is in a class of 50 and one of only three whites that never get any time spent on them.
Tell that to the patients who suffered from malpractice because the qualifications were from another country written on the back of a fag packet.
I see no benefits of allowing TWENTY million plus into a country in less than 30 years.
Oh, the establishment got a higher GNI and employers got cheap labour.. None of that benefits me...none.
You are of the type that has thrown away their heritage for a cheap kebab made from floor sweepings of the abattoir.
"Obviously immigration has brought this country many benefits"
Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of girls gang raped by those that must be pandered to.
Tell that to the relatives of all those blown to pieces, maimed or knifed to death..also you may tell those that are victims of acid attacks and scared for life.
Tell that to those that will never be able to afford their own home and will have to live in private rented accommodation as the council housing stock is immediately allocated to the newly arrived family of five.
Tell that to thousands of parents whose child is in a class of 50 and one of only three whites that never get any time spent on them.
Tell that to the patients who suffered from malpractice because the qualifications were from another country written on the back of a fag packet.
I see no benefits of allowing TWENTY million plus into a country in less than 30 years.
Oh, the establishment got a higher GNI and employers got cheap labour.. None of that benefits me...none.
You are of the type that has thrown away their heritage for a cheap kebab made from floor sweepings of the abattoir.
In reply to Post #35
My point was that the financial tariff would be a deterrent for the vehicles coming in, £12.50 plus your fuel and parking is not sustainable. I wasn't supporting it as an additional motoring tax, as you say who knows what hole the revenue will fall down.
Either way, something has to be done to clean up the air our kids have to breathe in inner cities. The ULEZ is certainly not a perfect solution, but unfortunately hitting the pocket seems to be the only way people will make a change.
It seems the political scientists from Non Carp are arriving, so I'm out
My point was that the financial tariff would be a deterrent for the vehicles coming in, £12.50 plus your fuel and parking is not sustainable. I wasn't supporting it as an additional motoring tax, as you say who knows what hole the revenue will fall down.
Either way, something has to be done to clean up the air our kids have to breathe in inner cities. The ULEZ is certainly not a perfect solution, but unfortunately hitting the pocket seems to be the only way people will make a change.
It seems the political scientists from Non Carp are arriving, so I'm out
In reply to Post #43
Cheaper travel card, more expensive everything else. But it's our choice to have a metropolitan life so I can't complain about it!
Cheaper travel card, more expensive everything else. But it's our choice to have a metropolitan life so I can't complain about it!
In reply to Post #40
Born there, lived there, worked there. I have no desire to ever return to that hole.
Born there, lived there, worked there. I have no desire to ever return to that hole.
I think it will end up nationwide, the manchester one that has temporarily been put on hold extended far from the centre, i live outside of the m60 ring road yet would be unable to drive 100yds up the road without passing a clean air zone camera.
There could end up being little zones all over the country and anyone without a compliant vehicle could end up paying multiple tariffs for a single trip
There could end up being little zones all over the country and anyone without a compliant vehicle could end up paying multiple tariffs for a single trip
In reply to Post #48
The only thing these policies will achieve is fleecing the poor off the roads thereby worsening their situation and lining the pockets of the bent, corrupt mayors and local politicians who care more about their expenses and salaries than your health.
It will not fix the environment when the UK contributes less than 1% of global emissions and the woman swanning about in her Chelsea tractor doesn't give a toss and won't even notice the daily charges.
Just what you don't need when your gas and electricity is set to double again in the next few months.
Apologies for the rant.
The only thing these policies will achieve is fleecing the poor off the roads thereby worsening their situation and lining the pockets of the bent, corrupt mayors and local politicians who care more about their expenses and salaries than your health.
It will not fix the environment when the UK contributes less than 1% of global emissions and the woman swanning about in her Chelsea tractor doesn't give a toss and won't even notice the daily charges.
Just what you don't need when your gas and electricity is set to double again in the next few months.
Apologies for the rant.
Is it really that much of a hardship? Go buy a 2005 petrol car for peanuts and forget about it
In reply to Post #48
They had one ready to go in Newcastle upon Tyne....Private cars were excluded...BUT for how long...?
Been postponed again. 20 mile detour to get from one side of the city to the other...Council bleating on they're broke and the shops all declaring reduced footfall, hardly surprising .NOT wanted OR required..
They had one ready to go in Newcastle upon Tyne....Private cars were excluded...BUT for how long...?
Been postponed again. 20 mile detour to get from one side of the city to the other...Council bleating on they're broke and the shops all declaring reduced footfall, hardly surprising .NOT wanted OR required..
In reply to Post #42
Eh? I never said that did I?! I said excluding Londoners from the charge is ludicrous. Not including, excluding. So how is that letting people drive polluting care in a bigger area for free? It's the opposite. It's making them pay for the larger ulez zone. And whilst I see Gerry's point, this has been an ongoing thing for quite some time now so could of/should of been addressed before now. It's been no secret this zone is going to get bigger.
Eh? I never said that did I?! I said excluding Londoners from the charge is ludicrous. Not including, excluding. So how is that letting people drive polluting care in a bigger area for free? It's the opposite. It's making them pay for the larger ulez zone. And whilst I see Gerry's point, this has been an ongoing thing for quite some time now so could of/should of been addressed before now. It's been no secret this zone is going to get bigger.
For all of those so vehemently against low emission zones in cities...
How do you propose we reduce emissions and clean up the air? We are not talking global pollution here, but improved localised air quality so that, for example, asthmatic kids from poor households in inner cities aren't choking on toxic levels of Nitrogen Dioxide.
How do you propose we reduce emissions and clean up the air? We are not talking global pollution here, but improved localised air quality so that, for example, asthmatic kids from poor households in inner cities aren't choking on toxic levels of Nitrogen Dioxide.
In reply to Post #49
I agree with you, and its the poor that will get hit hardest
I agree with you, and its the poor that will get hit hardest
In reply to Post #44
Twenty millions plus in less than 30 years? The population of the UK has risen by about 15 million since the 1960's, and a fraction of that has been from migration so your statement just doesn't check out at all.
It's clear you don't like migrants but your post just looks like regurgitated Daily Mail tripe, a lot of it vastly exaggerated and a lot of it scapegoating without justification.
I'd suggest you reconcile yourself to a future where migration is a mainstay, otherwise you're going to give yourself a heart attack.
I've never eaten a kebab.
Apologies to all for taking the thread slightly off-topic.
Twenty millions plus in less than 30 years? The population of the UK has risen by about 15 million since the 1960's, and a fraction of that has been from migration so your statement just doesn't check out at all.
It's clear you don't like migrants but your post just looks like regurgitated Daily Mail tripe, a lot of it vastly exaggerated and a lot of it scapegoating without justification.
I'd suggest you reconcile yourself to a future where migration is a mainstay, otherwise you're going to give yourself a heart attack.
I've never eaten a kebab.
Apologies to all for taking the thread slightly off-topic.
In reply to Post #54
I can assure you that the poorest residents in London cannot afford to own or run a car. I'm relatively comfortable financially but could not afford to run a car in central london without a subsidy allowance from work.
We all still have to breathe heavily polluted and illegally toxic air. What is the solution?
I can assure you that the poorest residents in London cannot afford to own or run a car. I'm relatively comfortable financially but could not afford to run a car in central london without a subsidy allowance from work.
We all still have to breathe heavily polluted and illegally toxic air. What is the solution?
I had an 2009 Berlingo Multispce and im pretty sure the barrow wheeled straight in (had to remove handles to shut boot) .... I loved this car ... Sooo uncool but amazingly practical and i had the XTR version and had the rear windows tinted so it looked reasonable imo.
I now have an Expert Tepee for work and fishing. it is an ex disability vehicle with drop down ramp. I removed all the rear seats and use as a van. Disability versions are great as normally very low mileage (bought mine with 21k on it and are relatively cheap. Mine is a 2011 model and isnt ULEZ compliant so you would need to go newer.
.
btw - i dont live in a ULEZ area but i do support the idea .... we just cant ignore the pollution in cities and how it affects children in particular
I now have an Expert Tepee for work and fishing. it is an ex disability vehicle with drop down ramp. I removed all the rear seats and use as a van. Disability versions are great as normally very low mileage (bought mine with 21k on it and are relatively cheap. Mine is a 2011 model and isnt ULEZ compliant so you would need to go newer.
.
btw - i dont live in a ULEZ area but i do support the idea .... we just cant ignore the pollution in cities and how it affects children in particular
In reply to Post #55
If you research what the supermarket industry has done a great deal of work on you will find the official figures
million a very great underestimation. They put far more research into such matters..they make their living from it. they estimate 80 million.
The official population was 56 million in 1975
The Government website admits to there being at least ONE million that they estimate that they have no records of and do not appear on the census...any sane person knows that can be tripled.
In the 70's it was rare to see a non caucasian..now whole areas are taken over and many are no go areas after a certain time.
30 thousand arrived illegally in dinghies in 2021..That many arrived by June in 2022. That's the ones they catch.
Not one has been sent back....NONE.
Scapegoating .. Look around, use other news than the BBC bull****, visit any major city..
Carry on..you will be a minority in your own country in less than a century at the current rate.
I suggest mugs like you get your heads out of the sand.
If you research what the supermarket industry has done a great deal of work on you will find the official figures
million a very great underestimation. They put far more research into such matters..they make their living from it. they estimate 80 million.
The official population was 56 million in 1975
The Government website admits to there being at least ONE million that they estimate that they have no records of and do not appear on the census...any sane person knows that can be tripled.
In the 70's it was rare to see a non caucasian..now whole areas are taken over and many are no go areas after a certain time.
30 thousand arrived illegally in dinghies in 2021..That many arrived by June in 2022. That's the ones they catch.
Not one has been sent back....NONE.
Scapegoating .. Look around, use other news than the BBC bull****, visit any major city..
Carry on..you will be a minority in your own country in less than a century at the current rate.
I suggest mugs like you get your heads out of the sand.
In reply to Post #56
My posts don't just relate to london but what i think will happen far more widespread, the clean air zone local to me extends outside of the manchester ring road.
I live in a village outside it yet clean air zone cameras are on my doorstep. It appears to me to be cash generating tax I cant remember the last time i drove into manchester or any other city centre.
A family member works for the nhs in a manchester hospital she loves her job is on relatively poor wage a car is needed for travel to work , it may come to a point where her and others would end up giving up jobs they love and taking on other jobs that make them financially better off. Who would suffer then?
People on relatively poor income and owning euro 5 cars and due to other factors heating, fuel rises etc financially not well off would struggle to replace cars and now the euro 5 cars would become almost worthless. There isn't public transport in place to get some people in work at shift start times .
I don't know what the solution is but i feel multiple separate zones across the country is not the answer
My posts don't just relate to london but what i think will happen far more widespread, the clean air zone local to me extends outside of the manchester ring road.
I live in a village outside it yet clean air zone cameras are on my doorstep. It appears to me to be cash generating tax I cant remember the last time i drove into manchester or any other city centre.
A family member works for the nhs in a manchester hospital she loves her job is on relatively poor wage a car is needed for travel to work , it may come to a point where her and others would end up giving up jobs they love and taking on other jobs that make them financially better off. Who would suffer then?
People on relatively poor income and owning euro 5 cars and due to other factors heating, fuel rises etc financially not well off would struggle to replace cars and now the euro 5 cars would become almost worthless. There isn't public transport in place to get some people in work at shift start times .
I don't know what the solution is but i feel multiple separate zones across the country is not the answer
In reply to Post #58
Mugs like me, racists like you - now that's diversity.
Mugs like me, racists like you - now that's diversity.
In reply to Post #52
Then one of us is being stupid and it could well be me.
If currently the zone is say 5 square miles centre of town and I live in that zone I can whizz around until my hearts content and as long as I don't go out of the zone I don't pay.
If you extend the zone to 20 square miles that increases my radius to whizz about in a mustang without leaving the zone.
The only time I will have to pay is if I pop out fishing to get some country air and drive back to the zone.
Am I wrong?
Take the polluting example and say that if I want to pollute the centre part of the Thames (say London Bridge) it will cost me £12.00 to do it if I come into London and don't live there. If I live there I can do it for free.
If I live in London and want to pollute the Thames as Windsor then. It's free until I return home.
If I want to do it in Windsor and live in Windsor - no charge.
Like I say I have no issue with fair taxes - BUT PAYING TO POLLUTE AND NOT REINVESTING 100% OF ANY TAXES IS RIDICULOUS.
The infrastructure alone to extend the zone will eat up millions - cash going to corporations that have no green agenda just a business agenda.
It's green washing at it's finest
Then one of us is being stupid and it could well be me.
If currently the zone is say 5 square miles centre of town and I live in that zone I can whizz around until my hearts content and as long as I don't go out of the zone I don't pay.
If you extend the zone to 20 square miles that increases my radius to whizz about in a mustang without leaving the zone.
The only time I will have to pay is if I pop out fishing to get some country air and drive back to the zone.
Am I wrong?
Take the polluting example and say that if I want to pollute the centre part of the Thames (say London Bridge) it will cost me £12.00 to do it if I come into London and don't live there. If I live there I can do it for free.
If I live in London and want to pollute the Thames as Windsor then. It's free until I return home.
If I want to do it in Windsor and live in Windsor - no charge.
Like I say I have no issue with fair taxes - BUT PAYING TO POLLUTE AND NOT REINVESTING 100% OF ANY TAXES IS RIDICULOUS.
The infrastructure alone to extend the zone will eat up millions - cash going to corporations that have no green agenda just a business agenda.
It's green washing at it's finest
In reply to Post #58
In reply to Post #61
It's charged if you are in the ulez zone, not just upon entry or exit of it. There is no charge for parked cars, but if they are used within the zone then you are charged for it. So no you can't live within the zone and just whizz about as you please without paying
It's charged if you are in the ulez zone, not just upon entry or exit of it. There is no charge for parked cars, but if they are used within the zone then you are charged for it. So no you can't live within the zone and just whizz about as you please without paying
In reply to Post #59
I guess one possible solution is using the revenue generated by the ULEZ/ CC to give worthwhile financial support to replace their vehicle for those who need it. For example pensioners and low income NHS staff such as in your example.
A newer compliant vehicle could theoretically be more efficient than the old vehicle it replaced, as well as the primary advantage of lower toxic emissions.
Those (relatively) wealthy enough to live in the suburbs may well have to either pay the charge or replace a vehicle. Many of the same people have also financially benefited from their proximity to a large city in increased value of property over the last 20 years. Many have also spent years driving into city centres polluting the air so that they can earn better money.
I guess one possible solution is using the revenue generated by the ULEZ/ CC to give worthwhile financial support to replace their vehicle for those who need it. For example pensioners and low income NHS staff such as in your example.
A newer compliant vehicle could theoretically be more efficient than the old vehicle it replaced, as well as the primary advantage of lower toxic emissions.
Those (relatively) wealthy enough to live in the suburbs may well have to either pay the charge or replace a vehicle. Many of the same people have also financially benefited from their proximity to a large city in increased value of property over the last 20 years. Many have also spent years driving into city centres polluting the air so that they can earn better money.
In reply to Post #62
I got a new van to avoid paying 12.50, but my parking in Fulham yesterday was £16 more than it would have been in a petrol motor, and I had to pay an extra £150 "diesel levy" to get a permit to park on my street. This will go up next year too.
A lot of boroughs are ramping up parking charges for diesels whether they're euro 6 or not
I don't do enough mileage for the diesel to be more economical so I'm having to look for a petrol van
I got a new van to avoid paying 12.50, but my parking in Fulham yesterday was £16 more than it would have been in a petrol motor, and I had to pay an extra £150 "diesel levy" to get a permit to park on my street. This will go up next year too.
A lot of boroughs are ramping up parking charges for diesels whether they're euro 6 or not
I don't do enough mileage for the diesel to be more economical so I'm having to look for a petrol van
In reply to Post #60
Not bothered in the slightest about the word racist..Only mugs put others before their own people or race. They usually regret it when reality hits them in the teeth.
Not bothered in the slightest about the word racist..Only mugs put others before their own people or race. They usually regret it when reality hits them in the teeth.
In reply to Post #62
Mate ?...Never ever considered you in that category !
Good for you...as per usual those with ample spending capacity never become involved..they pay begrudgingly and shrug their shoulders.. The I'm all right Jack mentality !
Mate ?...Never ever considered you in that category !
Good for you...as per usual those with ample spending capacity never become involved..they pay begrudgingly and shrug their shoulders.. The I'm all right Jack mentality !
In reply to Post #66
Not bothered in the slightest about the word racist..Only mugs put others before their own people or race. They usually regret it when reality hits them in the teeth.
wow!! ... have i woken up in 1975
Mate ?...Never ever considered you in that category !
Good for you...as per usual those with ample spending capacity never become involved..they pay begrudgingly and shrug their shoulders.. The I'm all right Jack mentality !
Oh the irony!!
.... you just cant make this type of sh*t up!
Not bothered in the slightest about the word racist..Only mugs put others before their own people or race. They usually regret it when reality hits them in the teeth.
wow!! ... have i woken up in 1975
Mate ?...Never ever considered you in that category !
Good for you...as per usual those with ample spending capacity never become involved..they pay begrudgingly and shrug their shoulders.. The I'm all right Jack mentality !
Oh the irony!!
.... you just cant make this type of sh*t up!
In reply to Post #64
Are these the same people privately renting because they can't afford to get on that property ladder?
You seem to be making too many assumptions about others all being rich londoners lol
How about making public transport in cities FREE for those living in that city? Hopefully gets some commuters off the roads. Whoops the government loses money everywhere.
Stop silly parents dropping kids to school?
Transfer all road taxes to fuel only, then the more you use the more you pay?
The reason I have an older car is because I don't want to waste my savings on a car I use infrequently, yet do need on occasions. I do not have the luxury of owning a house as a backup or safety net for later life. Also, having previously owned nicer cars, the worry of damage or theft etc. Doesn't interest me any more, a cheaper older car is far less worry and expense for my current needs. Also, I had spent years paying for expensive train travel into central and paying for a car, but no, not polluting the city in my car as didn't commute in it.
Are these the same people privately renting because they can't afford to get on that property ladder?
You seem to be making too many assumptions about others all being rich londoners lol
How about making public transport in cities FREE for those living in that city? Hopefully gets some commuters off the roads. Whoops the government loses money everywhere.
Stop silly parents dropping kids to school?
Transfer all road taxes to fuel only, then the more you use the more you pay?
The reason I have an older car is because I don't want to waste my savings on a car I use infrequently, yet do need on occasions. I do not have the luxury of owning a house as a backup or safety net for later life. Also, having previously owned nicer cars, the worry of damage or theft etc. Doesn't interest me any more, a cheaper older car is far less worry and expense for my current needs. Also, I had spent years paying for expensive train travel into central and paying for a car, but no, not polluting the city in my car as didn't commute in it.
In reply to Post #67
In reply to Post #69
I think you may be misunderstanding where I'm coming from and we actually have some fairly similar views.
I live in Tower Hamlets, the most impoverished borough in London and am clearly aware that not all people who live in London are rich. I am not rich.
I would 100% be behind residents having access to free or heavily subsidised public transport. Unfortunately this will never happen in London as the system is too large and it would be far too easy to abuse. The abuse of the Freedom Pass is a prime example of this.
I would 100% be behind restricting unnecessary school drop/collect traffic. Unfortunately those who feel it is necessary to drive a mile down the road and sit outside a school with the engine and air con running for half an hour (it's not just the rich in their Range Rovers who do this) are not likely to do this off their own backs.
I have also had nice cars in London, but would never do this again. Fuel economy with a large engine at 15mph is nonsense, as it the amount of cash you spend in body shops correcting dings from people who drove off.
My point about the suburbs may not apply to you, but it does apply to many. It is also possible to buy a used compliant car for not a lot of money, it just won't be diesel.
My point is that the kids in our cities, rich or poor, deserve to breathe air that is not toxic. Arguably more right than their parents do to have one or two cars sat outside. The ULEZ is certainly not perfect, but can those moaning that they will be out of pocket (those in poverty, disabled, pensioners etc obviously excluded) give a better realistic solution?
I think you may be misunderstanding where I'm coming from and we actually have some fairly similar views.
I live in Tower Hamlets, the most impoverished borough in London and am clearly aware that not all people who live in London are rich. I am not rich.
I would 100% be behind residents having access to free or heavily subsidised public transport. Unfortunately this will never happen in London as the system is too large and it would be far too easy to abuse. The abuse of the Freedom Pass is a prime example of this.
I would 100% be behind restricting unnecessary school drop/collect traffic. Unfortunately those who feel it is necessary to drive a mile down the road and sit outside a school with the engine and air con running for half an hour (it's not just the rich in their Range Rovers who do this) are not likely to do this off their own backs.
I have also had nice cars in London, but would never do this again. Fuel economy with a large engine at 15mph is nonsense, as it the amount of cash you spend in body shops correcting dings from people who drove off.
My point about the suburbs may not apply to you, but it does apply to many. It is also possible to buy a used compliant car for not a lot of money, it just won't be diesel.
My point is that the kids in our cities, rich or poor, deserve to breathe air that is not toxic. Arguably more right than their parents do to have one or two cars sat outside. The ULEZ is certainly not perfect, but can those moaning that they will be out of pocket (those in poverty, disabled, pensioners etc obviously excluded) give a better realistic solution?
In reply to Post #71
Free or heavily subsidised transport is the way to go if the plebs are serious about pollution, starting to happen around the world, but I fear its a cash cow that is very convenient, as thay ponder there next move in there're 6ltr bentlys
Free or heavily subsidised transport is the way to go if the plebs are serious about pollution, starting to happen around the world, but I fear its a cash cow that is very convenient, as thay ponder there next move in there're 6ltr bentlys
In reply to Post #71
Seems we agree on most
If it was health based reasons for the ulez then free or heavily discounted public travel would get lots of vehicles off the roads. BUT they have chosen to take the money.
A ulez compliant car can be had for half sensible money if any car would do. To replace my model with an equivalent would cost at least £10k at the moment. This is just a skoda superb estate
Seems we agree on most
If it was health based reasons for the ulez then free or heavily discounted public travel would get lots of vehicles off the roads. BUT they have chosen to take the money.
A ulez compliant car can be had for half sensible money if any car would do. To replace my model with an equivalent would cost at least £10k at the moment. This is just a skoda superb estate
In reply to Post #73
The problem is public transport is so unreliable. Especially the trains and tube with all the strikes going on. They need to get the system working properly before getting more people using it. The amount of cars driving around with only one person in is silly, and so many of them are big 4x4s which rarely even go through a puddle let alone do as they are allegedly designed for
The problem is public transport is so unreliable. Especially the trains and tube with all the strikes going on. They need to get the system working properly before getting more people using it. The amount of cars driving around with only one person in is silly, and so many of them are big 4x4s which rarely even go through a puddle let alone do as they are allegedly designed for
In reply to Post #74
And yet a lot of these big 4x4 are ulez compliant, go figure
Edit and so is any car over 40 years old
And yet a lot of these big 4x4 are ulez compliant, go figure
Edit and so is any car over 40 years old
In reply to Post #63
Aside from the 30 months they were given to prepare
Aside from the 30 months they were given to prepare
Wait a good few years when most cars on the road are battery driven,the government will be loosing millions so will start to tax these
In reply to Post #76
Eh?
Eh?
In reply to Post #37
Is immigration causing more people to drive cars then, or are you just going off on a rant cos you don't like foreigners?
Is immigration causing more people to drive cars then, or are you just going off on a rant cos you don't like foreigners?
A very bitter remainer I think
In reply to Post #79
Perhaps if you had followed the thread from the beginning if that is not too difficult for you. . Try reading the original post that was a reply to Jerry stating that you would never get rid of the current London Mayor.
He lives in the area and will have see how his Capital city has changed beyond all recognition.
Perhaps if you had followed the thread from the beginning if that is not too difficult for you. . Try reading the original post that was a reply to Jerry stating that you would never get rid of the current London Mayor.
He lives in the area and will have see how his Capital city has changed beyond all recognition.
Another thread ruined by the minority.
Why do people feel the need to do this?
Air pollution needs to be controlled and this is the solution that the government has chosen to try and help.
Unfortunately this will result in many people having to pay even further costs to live and with the cost of living already at breaking point for some it's sad to see that this is going to come in to force.
Something needs to happen soon and people need help with the cost of living spiralling out of control.
Not having enough money to pay bills etc has ended lives of my friends and many people over the years and it's only getting worse at the moment. Very sad times!!
FYI - Immigration is definitely not the problem.
Why do people feel the need to do this?
Air pollution needs to be controlled and this is the solution that the government has chosen to try and help.
Unfortunately this will result in many people having to pay even further costs to live and with the cost of living already at breaking point for some it's sad to see that this is going to come in to force.
Something needs to happen soon and people need help with the cost of living spiralling out of control.
Not having enough money to pay bills etc has ended lives of my friends and many people over the years and it's only getting worse at the moment. Very sad times!!
FYI - Immigration is definitely not the problem.
In reply to Post #70
This from the bitter purchaser of a Tier 6 van who wishes all should have to follow suit .
"Personally I'd like them to bring it in nationwide as of yesterday.
Would make the money I've handed over for a euro 6 van more palatable"
You chose to live and travel in the ****hole..why should the rest of have to pay to subsidise TFL because the mayor is a financial moron ?
This from the bitter purchaser of a Tier 6 van who wishes all should have to follow suit .
"Personally I'd like them to bring it in nationwide as of yesterday.
Would make the money I've handed over for a euro 6 van more palatable"
You chose to live and travel in the ****hole..why should the rest of have to pay to subsidise TFL because the mayor is a financial moron ?
In reply to Post #83
If you don't live in London the you're probably paying more to keep your blood pressure monitor running than you are to TfL.
If you don't live in London the you're probably paying more to keep your blood pressure monitor running than you are to TfL.
I must be honest I find the idea of punishing people instead of encouraging people difficult to get my head around. If they were serious about cutting pollution then instead to hitting people who can't afford it with charges, offer grants for people to upgrade to a newer cleaner car. Nobody wants to drive an old vehicle because it's polluting, they drive them because it's not economically viable for them to change them. So if they were serious then offer a scrapage scheme. Encourage and help people to upgrade.
I think this is just another thinly disguised shabby tax. Mr Khan knows full well that within twenty years they'll be gazillions of battery or hydrogen cars on then road anyway. So he sees this as a way to rake in millions for the next twenty years whilst he still can. If recent events have taught us anything it's that politicians care primarily about themselves, anyone that thinks Mr Khan gives two ****s about you or the air that your kids breath is deluded. Mr Khan cares about Mr Khan. About staying in power long enough to cream off the maximum he can from his very nice expense account. Funding Mr Khand jolly ups is expensive and he knows just where he can go for a bit of extra wonga.
I think this is just another thinly disguised shabby tax. Mr Khan knows full well that within twenty years they'll be gazillions of battery or hydrogen cars on then road anyway. So he sees this as a way to rake in millions for the next twenty years whilst he still can. If recent events have taught us anything it's that politicians care primarily about themselves, anyone that thinks Mr Khan gives two ****s about you or the air that your kids breath is deluded. Mr Khan cares about Mr Khan. About staying in power long enough to cream off the maximum he can from his very nice expense account. Funding Mr Khand jolly ups is expensive and he knows just where he can go for a bit of extra wonga.
In reply to Post #85
Just another unfair scheme to clober the poorest , a very blunt instrument, I dare say a 10 year old could have drawn up ,
Just another unfair scheme to clober the poorest , a very blunt instrument, I dare say a 10 year old could have drawn up ,
In reply to Post #83
Perhaps if electric car users charged their machines using solar or wind power only,their case might gain more traction.
It's another tax. Khan(t),like all politicians will do whatever it takes to gain votes .
Address the school run, driving to the supermarket because small,local grocery businesses are closing down, unreliable and costly public transport, not encouraging more work from home (what difference does it make where your computer is located?).
Easy issues to deal with but they don't generate enough income.
If any of this was about health then why sell tobacco products for example? Hmmm,can't think why...
It's another tax. Khan(t),like all politicians will do whatever it takes to gain votes .
Address the school run, driving to the supermarket because small,local grocery businesses are closing down, unreliable and costly public transport, not encouraging more work from home (what difference does it make where your computer is located?).
Easy issues to deal with but they don't generate enough income.
If any of this was about health then why sell tobacco products for example? Hmmm,can't think why...
In reply to Post #88
You think that Khan gets more votes because TfL is extending ULEZ charges? How's that work then?
You think that Khan gets more votes because TfL is extending ULEZ charges? How's that work then?
In reply to Post #89
A sizeable proportion of his voter base aren't drivers so why do they care as long as their needs are prioritised.
A sizeable proportion of his voter base aren't drivers so why do they care as long as their needs are prioritised.
In reply to Post #90
What proportion aren't drivers? Gives us the stats.
What proportion aren't drivers? Gives us the stats.
In reply to Post #90
Thats democracy for you.......
Thats democracy for you.......
In reply to Post #92
We don't live in a democracy. 40% of the people who can be bothered to vote give a political party 100% of the power. As only a max of 76% of the population can actually be bothered to get off their arse and vote it's a bloody travesty not a democracy.
We don't live in a democracy. 40% of the people who can be bothered to vote give a political party 100% of the power. As only a max of 76% of the population can actually be bothered to get off their arse and vote it's a bloody travesty not a democracy.
In reply to Post #93
Absolutely agree tbh, but the poster I was replying to (flippantly) seemed suprised that people vote for their own interests.
Voting system in this country is undeniably not fit for purpose, but thats a discussion for another place.
Don't know if it helps Gerry, but I could wheel my barrow into a RAV4, 4 wheel drive came in handy more than once as well.
Cheers.
Absolutely agree tbh, but the poster I was replying to (flippantly) seemed suprised that people vote for their own interests.
Voting system in this country is undeniably not fit for purpose, but thats a discussion for another place.
Don't know if it helps Gerry, but I could wheel my barrow into a RAV4, 4 wheel drive came in handy more than once as well.
Cheers.
In reply to Post #78
What are you struggling with? There was a grace period...
Under the current ULEZ rules, anyone living within the zone will be able to register to receive a discount of 100 per cent.
This is only available for a time-limited 'sunset period' from 8 April 2019 to 24 October 2021.
What are you struggling with? There was a grace period...
Under the current ULEZ rules, anyone living within the zone will be able to register to receive a discount of 100 per cent.
This is only available for a time-limited 'sunset period' from 8 April 2019 to 24 October 2021.
In reply to Post #95
Right so what? That doesn't make any difference going forward then does it?
Right so what? That doesn't make any difference going forward then does it?
In reply to Post #96
I'm actually boring myself so to try and get back on original thread;
The original ULEZ zone residents were given 30 months grace period, if they were to do the same with the extension - then this seems fair for everyone to fall into line - nobody knows if they will.
The new proposed extension covers parts of Greater London that have a far better air quality than many other parts of UK and cities.
The ULEZ tax is not used to improve Londoners air quality but is a tax to pollute.
Given the nature of the extension it will create rat runs around the suburbs endangering residents.
As I understand the proposals are being heard next year but no real guidance on implementation or even if they will succeed.
In my opinion, I would crack on, with one eye on your dream replacement but not make it your life's mission. With the cost of living crisis - Brexit - war and post covid recovery, my non political view would be if in the run up to a general election stealth taxes will be kicked into the long grass.
As loads have said if fuel = pollution put the tax on fuel - but the government already make much of their tax from this, plus again it's a tax to pollute with little if any of the money going towards making the planet a better place.
I'm actually boring myself so to try and get back on original thread;
The original ULEZ zone residents were given 30 months grace period, if they were to do the same with the extension - then this seems fair for everyone to fall into line - nobody knows if they will.
The new proposed extension covers parts of Greater London that have a far better air quality than many other parts of UK and cities.
The ULEZ tax is not used to improve Londoners air quality but is a tax to pollute.
Given the nature of the extension it will create rat runs around the suburbs endangering residents.
As I understand the proposals are being heard next year but no real guidance on implementation or even if they will succeed.
In my opinion, I would crack on, with one eye on your dream replacement but not make it your life's mission. With the cost of living crisis - Brexit - war and post covid recovery, my non political view would be if in the run up to a general election stealth taxes will be kicked into the long grass.
As loads have said if fuel = pollution put the tax on fuel - but the government already make much of their tax from this, plus again it's a tax to pollute with little if any of the money going towards making the planet a better place.
In reply to Post #97
But the original zone was a new thing, the extension isn't. So a pointless comment. And yes, you're boring me too
But the original zone was a new thing, the extension isn't. So a pointless comment. And yes, you're boring me too
In reply to Post #97
Yes time to stop probably, but I've enjoyed your contribution
Yes time to stop probably, but I've enjoyed your contribution
In reply to Post #98
“Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”
“Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”
In reply to Post #100
No my fault , I should not stick my beake in , I'm a nod
No my fault , I should not stick my beake in , I'm a nod
In reply to Post #100
Another "intellectual" who thinks he's better than others I see.
Another "intellectual" who thinks he's better than others I see.
Reading ALL pages