Which essentials oils do you find are worth adding, and optimum dosage per egg, there's quite a few.
Here's a list of the common ones I've seen others mention, etc..
Anise Star (Illicium verum)
Black Pepper (Piper nigrum)
Cinnamon (Cinnamomum zeylanicum)
Citronella (Java) (Cymbopogon nardus)
Clove (Bud) (Eugenia caryophyllata)
Fennel (Foeniculum vulgare)
Garlic (Allium sativum)
Geranium (Pelargonium graveolens)
Grapefruit (Pink) (Citrus paradisi)
Lemon (Citrus limon)
Orange (Sweet) (Citrus sinensis)
Palmarosa (Cymbopogon martinii)
Tangerine (Citrus reticulata)
Vanilla (Vanilla)
Ylang Ylang (Cananga odorata)
Here's a list of the common ones I've seen others mention, etc..
Anise Star (Illicium verum)
Black Pepper (Piper nigrum)
Cinnamon (Cinnamomum zeylanicum)
Citronella (Java) (Cymbopogon nardus)
Clove (Bud) (Eugenia caryophyllata)
Fennel (Foeniculum vulgare)
Garlic (Allium sativum)
Geranium (Pelargonium graveolens)
Grapefruit (Pink) (Citrus paradisi)
Lemon (Citrus limon)
Orange (Sweet) (Citrus sinensis)
Palmarosa (Cymbopogon martinii)
Tangerine (Citrus reticulata)
Vanilla (Vanilla)
Ylang Ylang (Cananga odorata)
In reply to Post #1
I'll only list the ones I use and the dosage I've found to work best, note I'm not suing them as attractors because they aren't soluble. I'm usualing them as taste enhancers and dispersed within soluble liquids to spread them out, working in conjunction with other ingredients.
Please also note that I weigh out all liquids. As it's commercial I'll give approximations you may be able to calculate down into small dosages
Garlic - between 15 and 25 grams into a 5 kilo blend of liquid foods and hydros that are added at 140ml per kilo of bait
Orange - between 30 and 45 grams into a blend of different extracts and oleoresins and acids to form a proprietary “flavour” blend that is then mixed 5g into 125g of hydros per kilo of bait
Now the next set of dosage rates are what I I used in flavoured pop ups, however bear in mind I now prefer liquid foods if I can and don't think they necessarily add much.
These are all to 55g of whole liquid egg roughly 1 egg.
Garlic - 3 drops
Orange -7 drops
Cinnamon / cassia - 2 drops
Lemon - 4 drops
Black pepper - 8 drops
Tangerine - 15 drops
Ylang ylang - 4 drops
I'll only list the ones I use and the dosage I've found to work best, note I'm not suing them as attractors because they aren't soluble. I'm usualing them as taste enhancers and dispersed within soluble liquids to spread them out, working in conjunction with other ingredients.
Please also note that I weigh out all liquids. As it's commercial I'll give approximations you may be able to calculate down into small dosages
Garlic - between 15 and 25 grams into a 5 kilo blend of liquid foods and hydros that are added at 140ml per kilo of bait
Orange - between 30 and 45 grams into a blend of different extracts and oleoresins and acids to form a proprietary “flavour” blend that is then mixed 5g into 125g of hydros per kilo of bait
Now the next set of dosage rates are what I I used in flavoured pop ups, however bear in mind I now prefer liquid foods if I can and don't think they necessarily add much.
These are all to 55g of whole liquid egg roughly 1 egg.
Garlic - 3 drops
Orange -7 drops
Cinnamon / cassia - 2 drops
Lemon - 4 drops
Black pepper - 8 drops
Tangerine - 15 drops
Ylang ylang - 4 drops
I use a couple of different ones in my hookbaits. Working on 50g of liquid egg
BPO six drops max
Bergamot four to six drops depending on the bait
Same as Nick I'm not really expecting these to work as an attractor as such, my theory is more that I hope they will disperse/rise in the water and maybe help to carry a few more of the other chemicals with them.
I do wonder if some of the aromatics/taste components/chemicals contained within the oil might at some chemical level be able to dissolve out into the water from the carrier oil. But who knows, I'm not a chemist.
BPO six drops max
Bergamot four to six drops depending on the bait
Same as Nick I'm not really expecting these to work as an attractor as such, my theory is more that I hope they will disperse/rise in the water and maybe help to carry a few more of the other chemicals with them.
I do wonder if some of the aromatics/taste components/chemicals contained within the oil might at some chemical level be able to dissolve out into the water from the carrier oil. But who knows, I'm not a chemist.
The issue with recommending inclusion levels of essential oils is that there is such a wide variation in product across suppliers. If you bought 20 versions of a garlic or black pepper oil from different suppliers you could very easily get 20 different products with different properties.
To simply say BPO should be 2 drops an egg for example is pointless, as a different product could need 1 or 4etc but still all BPO.
To simply say BPO should be 2 drops an egg for example is pointless, as a different product could need 1 or 4etc but still all BPO.
In reply to Post #4
well no a pure black pepper essential oil should be a pure black pepper essential oil.
You may buy a black pepper flavour, but the essential oil should be :"therapeutic grade" although grading mostly exists in America and it's usually just called "pure".
20 different versions of black pepper oil is absurd.
I also don't feel offering advice to those who ask for it is pointless. we should, collectively, never consider a deed doe in good will to be pointless.
well no a pure black pepper essential oil should be a pure black pepper essential oil.
You may buy a black pepper flavour, but the essential oil should be :"therapeutic grade" although grading mostly exists in America and it's usually just called "pure".
20 different versions of black pepper oil is absurd.
I also don't feel offering advice to those who ask for it is pointless. we should, collectively, never consider a deed doe in good will to be pointless.
In reply to Post #5
I think you need to do a bit of research on essential oils.
Let's take black pepper as an example.
The potency and amount of piperine in the pepper itself will depend on where it is grown and when it is harvested.
Anybody can make an essential oil. You can prepare the pepper in multiple ways for extraction of the oils and use different types of still for extraction.
‘Pure' essential oil only means that you have not added any other botanical source or fillers. It does not account for any of the above and is no indication of potency.
So no, 20 different versions of BPO is not absurd, it's very conservative. We could produce 20 different versions of BPO between us on the forum today depending on where we sourced our pepper, how we prepared it, our skills at distillation and the equipment we used.
We could then set up a website and sell these as pure BPO.
My advice to the op would be to buy a few oils and experiment one drop at a time, if you can tank test all the better. If not it's trial and error until you get a feel for your product. All part of the fun.
I think you need to do a bit of research on essential oils.
Let's take black pepper as an example.
The potency and amount of piperine in the pepper itself will depend on where it is grown and when it is harvested.
Anybody can make an essential oil. You can prepare the pepper in multiple ways for extraction of the oils and use different types of still for extraction.
‘Pure' essential oil only means that you have not added any other botanical source or fillers. It does not account for any of the above and is no indication of potency.
So no, 20 different versions of BPO is not absurd, it's very conservative. We could produce 20 different versions of BPO between us on the forum today depending on where we sourced our pepper, how we prepared it, our skills at distillation and the equipment we used.
We could then set up a website and sell these as pure BPO.
My advice to the op would be to buy a few oils and experiment one drop at a time, if you can tank test all the better. If not it's trial and error until you get a feel for your product. All part of the fun.
In reply to Post #6
There you go! Someone with the kowledge about the manufacturing process and raw materials.
You're quite modest with assuming 20 different variation wil be available! Every EO production site will produce a different variation on it.
Due to this all, dosing an EO is a hit or miss.
Trial and error will be the only way forward. But don't forget less is more!
There you go! Someone with the kowledge about the manufacturing process and raw materials.
You're quite modest with assuming 20 different variation wil be available! Every EO production site will produce a different variation on it.
Due to this all, dosing an EO is a hit or miss.
Trial and error will be the only way forward. But don't forget less is more!
In reply to Post #6
Spot on. There is great variety.
Have a look at for example table 3 here for variations in BPO.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6930617/#!po=40.2174
Spot on. There is great variety.
Have a look at for example table 3 here for variations in BPO.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6930617/#!po=40.2174
In reply to Post #8
Start with the lowest recommended dosage, in one handfull of baits(neutral basemix), and highest in another handfull, then use one of the following alternatives that suit you, or all 3 if you´re lucky to do so:-
1 - Tank test
2 - Pond test
3 - Runs water
Are EOs attractors, taste enhancers or investigative triggers due to ionization, or all of the above ? One thing i´m sure of is that the do work, despite the ongoing gripe of insolublity. I add EOs primarily for ionization/investigative triggering, and hopefully taste enhancing. Therefore i tend to seek out those EOs with specific gravity higher than water(1), that hug the hookbait/bottom, eg :-
Cinnamon Leaf EO - 1.049
Eucalyptus EO - 1.465
Clove - 1.056
Wintergreen - 1.182
EOs are NOT water soluble, and are made up of purely covalent molecules, whereas water is polar covalent.
Best to summarize, without going in too much detail.
The 3 main types of molecules :-
a) Ionic molecules - either + or -
b) Polar covalent molecules - have partial charges on their atoms
c) Purely covalent molecules - non-polar molecules that have no partial charges on any of their atoms, BUT ...
As there are no charges on the EO molecules to which the water molecules can bind, however, at random points in time, the electron density in a purely covalent molecule will shift to create a temporary & spontaneous dipole (partial charge) in one part of the molecule. When diluting an EO with a carrier oil, a dipole-induced dipole bond is created, and although an extremely weak bond, it allows purely covalent solutes to dissolve in purely covalent solvents. The random formation of a dipole is temporary, and the 1st molecule will lose its partial charge, but another random or induced dipole will replace it.
When you add an emulsifier to your EO and water mix, the purely covalent end will dissolve in the oil, and the polar covalent end in the water. The oil & water are chemically bonded through the medium of the emulsifier, but the oil is not dissolved in the water. So when you shake your EO with water vigorously, you can create an unstable emulsion, where the oil and the water are mixed but will quickly separate again because no bond has been formed between the purely covalent oil and the polar covalent water molecules, and that´s where an emulsifier comes into play and stabilizes this process. So if purchasing EOs via aromatherapy outlets, you could be getting water soluble EOs that aren´t pure and contain other chemicals.
To be honest, i´ve stopped using EOs in freebies, but do fool around testing popups with different EO blends + their pure fruit juices, when i´m bored.
Start with the lowest recommended dosage, in one handfull of baits(neutral basemix), and highest in another handfull, then use one of the following alternatives that suit you, or all 3 if you´re lucky to do so:-
1 - Tank test
2 - Pond test
3 - Runs water
Are EOs attractors, taste enhancers or investigative triggers due to ionization, or all of the above ? One thing i´m sure of is that the do work, despite the ongoing gripe of insolublity. I add EOs primarily for ionization/investigative triggering, and hopefully taste enhancing. Therefore i tend to seek out those EOs with specific gravity higher than water(1), that hug the hookbait/bottom, eg :-
Cinnamon Leaf EO - 1.049
Eucalyptus EO - 1.465
Clove - 1.056
Wintergreen - 1.182
EOs are NOT water soluble, and are made up of purely covalent molecules, whereas water is polar covalent.
Best to summarize, without going in too much detail.
The 3 main types of molecules :-
a) Ionic molecules - either + or -
b) Polar covalent molecules - have partial charges on their atoms
c) Purely covalent molecules - non-polar molecules that have no partial charges on any of their atoms, BUT ...
As there are no charges on the EO molecules to which the water molecules can bind, however, at random points in time, the electron density in a purely covalent molecule will shift to create a temporary & spontaneous dipole (partial charge) in one part of the molecule. When diluting an EO with a carrier oil, a dipole-induced dipole bond is created, and although an extremely weak bond, it allows purely covalent solutes to dissolve in purely covalent solvents. The random formation of a dipole is temporary, and the 1st molecule will lose its partial charge, but another random or induced dipole will replace it.
When you add an emulsifier to your EO and water mix, the purely covalent end will dissolve in the oil, and the polar covalent end in the water. The oil & water are chemically bonded through the medium of the emulsifier, but the oil is not dissolved in the water. So when you shake your EO with water vigorously, you can create an unstable emulsion, where the oil and the water are mixed but will quickly separate again because no bond has been formed between the purely covalent oil and the polar covalent water molecules, and that´s where an emulsifier comes into play and stabilizes this process. So if purchasing EOs via aromatherapy outlets, you could be getting water soluble EOs that aren´t pure and contain other chemicals.
To be honest, i´ve stopped using EOs in freebies, but do fool around testing popups with different EO blends + their pure fruit juices, when i´m bored.
In reply to Post #6
I've read Sturlas paper, we're talking fairly inconsequential differences, spoke at length to the biggest importer in the country today as it happened and mentioned this thread, you'll find it will not effect dosing. Whee as t we have in this country is very consistent product. I trust him.
If you analyse three different batches of lt94 fishmeal there will be variances in ash content, macro nutrients, protein etc which is why it's given as a %> number. This is the same of essential oils there will be slight differences but because a people use it in all sort of formulations from aroma therapy to food to feed to cosmetics and pharmaceuticals there is a tolerance range that is tested for. You will find if you buy pepper from lots of different places slight variations however a commercially avaliable pure black pepper oil is for all intents and purposes exactly that. And will NOT effect dosing. I've used enough of it 😂
I've read Sturlas paper, we're talking fairly inconsequential differences, spoke at length to the biggest importer in the country today as it happened and mentioned this thread, you'll find it will not effect dosing. Whee as t we have in this country is very consistent product. I trust him.
If you analyse three different batches of lt94 fishmeal there will be variances in ash content, macro nutrients, protein etc which is why it's given as a %> number. This is the same of essential oils there will be slight differences but because a people use it in all sort of formulations from aroma therapy to food to feed to cosmetics and pharmaceuticals there is a tolerance range that is tested for. You will find if you buy pepper from lots of different places slight variations however a commercially avaliable pure black pepper oil is for all intents and purposes exactly that. And will NOT effect dosing. I've used enough of it 😂
In reply to Post #10
Mozzi ... which of the following would you suggest, is favourable over the other, going purely on taste enhancing properties :-
BPEO or pure piperine ?
Mozzi ... which of the following would you suggest, is favourable over the other, going purely on taste enhancing properties :-
BPEO or pure piperine ?
In reply to Post #10
Out of interest who is this biggest importer you coincidentally spoke to today? They are the biggest importer of what? Pepper or Black Pepper Essential oil?
Out of interest who is this biggest importer you coincidentally spoke to today? They are the biggest importer of what? Pepper or Black Pepper Essential oil?
In reply to Post #12
definitely wont be pepper
definitely wont be pepper
In reply to Post #13
This was my point. Anybody can make and sell a black pepper essential oil in this country. The peppercorn will need to be imported but the distillation can take place anywhere. The variety of potencies will be vast. It makes no sense that dosage across all of these would be the same.
LT94 is no comparison as there is regulation in the manufacture.
This was my point. Anybody can make and sell a black pepper essential oil in this country. The peppercorn will need to be imported but the distillation can take place anywhere. The variety of potencies will be vast. It makes no sense that dosage across all of these would be the same.
LT94 is no comparison as there is regulation in the manufacture.
In reply to Post #12
Black pepper essential oil. He attended a show to learn more about Carl baits as they're also own a flavour company. I utilised his wide range of ingredients in formulating spice blends many years ago.
Coincidences do Happen. I'm sorry it's inconvenient for you 👍🏼
Black pepper essential oil. He attended a show to learn more about Carl baits as they're also own a flavour company. I utilised his wide range of ingredients in formulating spice blends many years ago.
Coincidences do Happen. I'm sorry it's inconvenient for you 👍🏼
In reply to Post #11
I think they “taste”very different. Pipeline is largely insoluble the same as black pepper oil but it's also very bland until you get the aftertaste, from the papers I've read it seems to promote fat retention in fish? But to say I've used pure pipeline extract on anything resembling a comprehensive basis would be false. I bought some in for a customers recipe and he dropped it after the first couple hundred kilo and noticed no different in catch rates. His mix is very very simple which I feel allows one to more easily monitor individual ingredients performance as opposed to a complex bait comprising many ingredients, in other words I think he'd notice. Accomplished angler, had everything he's wanted from the Thames, currently fishing a massive lake in reading. He's antisocial and won't always converse but he absolutely waxed lyrical about a taste enhancer mix I gave him so when something does work he enthusiastically goes on about it lol.
So going on from that I'd say tge question you put to me in of itself can't really be answered. One may work well in combinations with one set of ingredients where the other might not and vice versa, and I'd certainly not feel comfortable giving you an absolute answer on the limited experience of that ingredient. Would rather put my hands up than put you down a rabbit hole lol
I think they “taste”very different. Pipeline is largely insoluble the same as black pepper oil but it's also very bland until you get the aftertaste, from the papers I've read it seems to promote fat retention in fish? But to say I've used pure pipeline extract on anything resembling a comprehensive basis would be false. I bought some in for a customers recipe and he dropped it after the first couple hundred kilo and noticed no different in catch rates. His mix is very very simple which I feel allows one to more easily monitor individual ingredients performance as opposed to a complex bait comprising many ingredients, in other words I think he'd notice. Accomplished angler, had everything he's wanted from the Thames, currently fishing a massive lake in reading. He's antisocial and won't always converse but he absolutely waxed lyrical about a taste enhancer mix I gave him so when something does work he enthusiastically goes on about it lol.
So going on from that I'd say tge question you put to me in of itself can't really be answered. One may work well in combinations with one set of ingredients where the other might not and vice versa, and I'd certainly not feel comfortable giving you an absolute answer on the limited experience of that ingredient. Would rather put my hands up than put you down a rabbit hole lol
In reply to Post #15
So the biggest importer of black pepper essential oil in the uk personally visits small bait companies at fishing shows? Despite the fact that fishing bait must make up a minute fraction of black pepper essential oil business for him? He must be a keen angler?
So the biggest importer of black pepper essential oil in the uk personally visits small bait companies at fishing shows? Despite the fact that fishing bait must make up a minute fraction of black pepper essential oil business for him? He must be a keen angler?
In reply to Post #17
He doesn't fish
Everyone always looks to increase avenues when it comes to business, if he gets 3/4 people interested and sells them a variety of things then why not? There is also tge social aspect he knows a lot of us through years of trading ? It happened. I'm not gong to sit here and spend any longer thinkings it's remotely worth proving it to people like yourself. Have a lovely week.
He doesn't fish
Everyone always looks to increase avenues when it comes to business, if he gets 3/4 people interested and sells them a variety of things then why not? There is also tge social aspect he knows a lot of us through years of trading ? It happened. I'm not gong to sit here and spend any longer thinkings it's remotely worth proving it to people like yourself. Have a lovely week.
In reply to Post #1
Got to get out there testing as I have generally found with this type of thing it can be water dependent.
Agree with 2ndChance's post about looking at the density/gravity of the oil.
The stinker the oil the better for me!
Got to get out there testing as I have generally found with this type of thing it can be water dependent.
Agree with 2ndChance's post about looking at the density/gravity of the oil.
The stinker the oil the better for me!
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