A friend of mine forwarded me a Facebook page a couple of weeks ago, showing what appeared to be an otter kill at the Hull and District Brough complex. I don't do Facebook, but did anyone else see this and if so, what was the outcome? Cheers
In reply to Post #1
Just as an idea, ask your friend who 'does' facebook......
Rather than cast aspersions publicly online.
Just as an idea, ask your friend who 'does' facebook......
Rather than cast aspersions publicly online.
In reply to Post #2
Are Aspersions the new Harrison blanks?
Are Aspersions the new Harrison blanks?
In reply to Post #3
No phil, they are an attack on the reputation or integrity of something or someone - according to my dictionary
No phil, they are an attack on the reputation or integrity of something or someone - according to my dictionary
In reply to Post #2
I have asked him but thanks for the advice.
He hasn't seen anything else though, hence my request of others.
Why am I casting aspertions? There was a facebook post as I stated. I've seen plenty of otter kills as have most of us I suspect. It looked like an otter kill to me. The complex is fenced off but a predator has got in for sure. I'm sure current or potential members of HDAA would like to know for sure. Their own website has not commented on the post but that's not surprising given the debacle that followed the Motorway pond sightings.
I have asked him but thanks for the advice.
He hasn't seen anything else though, hence my request of others.
Why am I casting aspertions? There was a facebook post as I stated. I've seen plenty of otter kills as have most of us I suspect. It looked like an otter kill to me. The complex is fenced off but a predator has got in for sure. I'm sure current or potential members of HDAA would like to know for sure. Their own website has not commented on the post but that's not surprising given the debacle that followed the Motorway pond sightings.
In reply to Post #5
post a pic up and i'll soon tell you
post a pic up and i'll soon tell you
In reply to Post #6
I've only got a whatsapp message with the photo. I cannot upload the facebook page as I don't have access. I will endeavour to load it somehow
I've only got a whatsapp message with the photo. I cannot upload the facebook page as I don't have access. I will endeavour to load it somehow
In reply to Post #7
Apparently the post and photo were on HDAA's own members Facebook page. If anyone has access please feel free to upload a link, I would be interested on others opinions. One comment suggests a mink attack, another suggests a bird dropped it and rats have had it. Mmmmmm
If a mink can get in then surely it's just as likely an otter?
Apparently the post and photo were on HDAA's own members Facebook page. If anyone has access please feel free to upload a link, I would be interested on others opinions. One comment suggests a mink attack, another suggests a bird dropped it and rats have had it. Mmmmmm
If a mink can get in then surely it's just as likely an otter?
In reply to Post #8
Roughly how large would this deceased carp be,if it was in its unmolested state,there's a reason why I'm asking this ?
Roughly how large would this deceased carp be,if it was in its unmolested state,there's a reason why I'm asking this ?
In reply to Post #9
It wasn't a carp. It was a large roach/ide type fish of a couple of pounds maybe.
On one of the smaller lakes on the complex.
It wasn't a carp. It was a large roach/ide type fish of a couple of pounds maybe.
On one of the smaller lakes on the complex.
In reply to Post #9
Why is size important? LOL
Why is size important? LOL
In reply to Post #11
Well,you see this forum is called Carpforum,not roach or ide forum,so assumed you would be talking about carp..
Now ,the reason.....I genuinely asked about size ,assuming as most would here ,on carp forum,bearing its a forum about carp..is because as soon as a fish is found dead and potentially predated,some,but not all people blame mink...a big misnomer sometimes..
So to answer your question carp of large proportion cannot be dragged up a bank by a mink ,as its too small..thats why I asked how big the fish could potentially have been..
Hope you have learned something..
Well,you see this forum is called Carpforum,not roach or ide forum,so assumed you would be talking about carp..
Now ,the reason.....I genuinely asked about size ,assuming as most would here ,on carp forum,bearing its a forum about carp..is because as soon as a fish is found dead and potentially predated,some,but not all people blame mink...a big misnomer sometimes..
So to answer your question carp of large proportion cannot be dragged up a bank by a mink ,as its too small..thats why I asked how big the fish could potentially have been..
Hope you have learned something..
In reply to Post #11
It isn't mate, don't you be worrying
It isn't mate, don't you be worrying
In reply to Post #13
Thats what all the blokes in your life have told you
Thats what all the blokes in your life have told you
In reply to Post #14
Right that's your discount gone. You can pay full from now on
....
Like the rest of the family
Right that's your discount gone. You can pay full from now on
....
Like the rest of the family
In reply to Post #15
In reply to Post #16
In reply to Post #12
Otter predation is every anglers problem. I don't care what species the predated fish was. If it's on a complex I pay good money to carp fish then I've a vested interest in what caused it's demise. It's not called otter forum either but carp forum seems to attract a lot of posts about otters. I wonder why?
Your angsty post does nothing but show you as a keyboard Bertie big ******** methinks, something else the forum attracts on occasion. I ask a simple, tongue in cheek question regards size, joke intended and you just can't resist can you? LOL
Hope you have learnt something also.
Otter predation is every anglers problem. I don't care what species the predated fish was. If it's on a complex I pay good money to carp fish then I've a vested interest in what caused it's demise. It's not called otter forum either but carp forum seems to attract a lot of posts about otters. I wonder why?
Your angsty post does nothing but show you as a keyboard Bertie big ******** methinks, something else the forum attracts on occasion. I ask a simple, tongue in cheek question regards size, joke intended and you just can't resist can you? LOL
Hope you have learnt something also.
In reply to Post #18
Put it this way predation occurs from various sources,not just otter or mink,..so the remains or size of the predation victim is your clue to potentially what could be happening to your venue..
Ie predation of waterbirds for a poor example could be otter and or mink,are you seeing spraint or mink scats around the perimeter of the lake,internally or externally of this fence you mention are there any prints in mud, can any whistling be heard at night times,is there any pre sprinting evidence,lots of things that can give clues,one dead ide or roach means nothing,or maybe not...have you considered that a cormorant could have regurgitated that fish..?,that fish mightve come from another fishery ...so many questions,so many potentials..
Has any one tampered with your fencing,have you checked ?,is your mesh of a decent size?,has a bunny hugger targeted your fishery....
If you start seeing scales on a regular spot or kill platform that's a clue,..
So again hope you have learned something although I'm sure you haven't..lol...or maybe you have..
You came on here to ask a question, you mentioned roach and ide lol,it works two ways !
As for Bertie big testicle,no mate I don't think so...keyboard warrior,no...just giving it straight..
Put it this way predation occurs from various sources,not just otter or mink,..so the remains or size of the predation victim is your clue to potentially what could be happening to your venue..
Ie predation of waterbirds for a poor example could be otter and or mink,are you seeing spraint or mink scats around the perimeter of the lake,internally or externally of this fence you mention are there any prints in mud, can any whistling be heard at night times,is there any pre sprinting evidence,lots of things that can give clues,one dead ide or roach means nothing,or maybe not...have you considered that a cormorant could have regurgitated that fish..?,that fish mightve come from another fishery ...so many questions,so many potentials..
Has any one tampered with your fencing,have you checked ?,is your mesh of a decent size?,has a bunny hugger targeted your fishery....
If you start seeing scales on a regular spot or kill platform that's a clue,..
So again hope you have learned something although I'm sure you haven't..lol...or maybe you have..
You came on here to ask a question, you mentioned roach and ide lol,it works two ways !
As for Bertie big testicle,no mate I don't think so...keyboard warrior,no...just giving it straight..
In reply to Post #18
With it being such a small fish why would you assume otter or mink being the culprits?
More likely to be a heron on a fenced fishery I'd think.
With it being such a small fish why would you assume otter or mink being the culprits?
More likely to be a heron on a fenced fishery I'd think.
Anyone got the URL for the Roach forum?
In reply to Post #18
If you want help with your predation "problem" then getting arsey with people who clearly know more about the subject than you do really isn't the way to go about it . Btw assuming a small silver fish with an injury is an otter kill is almost laughable, especially on a fenced water
If you want help with your predation "problem" then getting arsey with people who clearly know more about the subject than you do really isn't the way to go about it . Btw assuming a small silver fish with an injury is an otter kill is almost laughable, especially on a fenced water
In reply to Post #10
Mate if you had an otter problem you'd know about it pretty quickly. It is not pretty, take my word for it. One dead silver fish almost certainly means nothing, especially if it was 2 weeks ago with nowt else found.
Mate if you had an otter problem you'd know about it pretty quickly. It is not pretty, take my word for it. One dead silver fish almost certainly means nothing, especially if it was 2 weeks ago with nowt else found.
In reply to Post #18
Mr Tench
Ive spent many years studying predation, Fencing, working of lake defences, working with key organisations and being part of one as a predation fisheries advisor (un paid)
If you want info, then as, one dead silver means absolutely nothing, lots of predated fish however does. also, a dead fish means little, you MUST looks for other signs of predation other than dead fish.#
Theres some really good people on here that are willing and able to help.
Mr Tench
Ive spent many years studying predation, Fencing, working of lake defences, working with key organisations and being part of one as a predation fisheries advisor (un paid)
If you want info, then as, one dead silver means absolutely nothing, lots of predated fish however does. also, a dead fish means little, you MUST looks for other signs of predation other than dead fish.#
Theres some really good people on here that are willing and able to help.
In reply to Post #24
Wandle1 being one of them,Adam spends that much time outside even his pubic hair is a rare endangered type of foliage
Wandle1 being one of them,Adam spends that much time outside even his pubic hair is a rare endangered type of foliage
In reply to Post #25
i worry about your observations
i worry about your observations
In reply to Post #26
In reply to Post #24
Thanks for the sensible reply bud.
I'm afraid my tolerance threshold of individuals who just seem to live for confrontation is at an all time low at the minute. Too many people on forums seem to just want a sarcastic pop. Maybe if they re-read the opening post and just answered the question all would be well.
It matters not what species of fish was found dead and half eaten. The thread is about possible otter predation and I was after feedback regards the facebook post. Nothing else. I've fished for 50 years and seen numerous otter kills, mostly in the last 10 to 15 years. I've seen lakes emptied of carp stock over several months. One lake in particular that came under attack also give me a better insight into otter predation and some signs that would otherwise have gone unnoticed/not linked to otters. Know your enemy is a very valid saying. Lakes under otter predation always start with that first kill. They are like all predators. The least energy they expell to feed themselves the better. So the smaller, more densely stocked lakes on a complex of several waters seem to get targeted first.
Time will tell if it's an otter in this incident as the carcasses will soon start to stack up.
Cheers
Thanks for the sensible reply bud.
I'm afraid my tolerance threshold of individuals who just seem to live for confrontation is at an all time low at the minute. Too many people on forums seem to just want a sarcastic pop. Maybe if they re-read the opening post and just answered the question all would be well.
It matters not what species of fish was found dead and half eaten. The thread is about possible otter predation and I was after feedback regards the facebook post. Nothing else. I've fished for 50 years and seen numerous otter kills, mostly in the last 10 to 15 years. I've seen lakes emptied of carp stock over several months. One lake in particular that came under attack also give me a better insight into otter predation and some signs that would otherwise have gone unnoticed/not linked to otters. Know your enemy is a very valid saying. Lakes under otter predation always start with that first kill. They are like all predators. The least energy they expell to feed themselves the better. So the smaller, more densely stocked lakes on a complex of several waters seem to get targeted first.
Time will tell if it's an otter in this incident as the carcasses will soon start to stack up.
Cheers
In reply to Post #28
If you have all that experience why do you need ask.It seems to me you have very good knowledge of the subject,can you spend any time down at the lake to try find the evidence.I would think that would be better than letting the carcasses stack up
If you have all that experience why do you need ask.It seems to me you have very good knowledge of the subject,can you spend any time down at the lake to try find the evidence.I would think that would be better than letting the carcasses stack up
In reply to Post #28
No problem at all.
What ive always found is that by being tolerant and not biting back (some people enjoy internet tennis) is the best form of defence when seeking information. rise above it an all
Trust me, ive had years of otter "debates" with both wildlife lovers and anglers alike, a high percentage of either know VERY little about this subject.
Now, spotting signs of predation, isnt easy unless you have a very keen eye and even then this can be difficult.
depending on what said lake holds within, you may NEVER see a dead fish, otters are also very capable of dragging their prey away a very long distance to feed upon. I went to one lake where a dog otter was dragging double figured carp 300 yards away from the lake to a small wooded area, the lake owner never knew.
look for other signs other than dead fish.
No problem at all.
What ive always found is that by being tolerant and not biting back (some people enjoy internet tennis) is the best form of defence when seeking information. rise above it an all
Trust me, ive had years of otter "debates" with both wildlife lovers and anglers alike, a high percentage of either know VERY little about this subject.
Now, spotting signs of predation, isnt easy unless you have a very keen eye and even then this can be difficult.
depending on what said lake holds within, you may NEVER see a dead fish, otters are also very capable of dragging their prey away a very long distance to feed upon. I went to one lake where a dog otter was dragging double figured carp 300 yards away from the lake to a small wooded area, the lake owner never knew.
look for other signs other than dead fish.
In reply to Post #30
I hear you can get rid of a furry creature from 300 yards with your bait sponsors t shirt on
I hear you can get rid of a furry creature from 300 yards with your bait sponsors t shirt on
In reply to Post #30
Yes I've also seen otters drag large carp (20lb plus) up steep banks. Another sign I've witnessed is the banks littered with body parts of hundreds of killed frogs and toads, as the otter takes advantage of a readilly/easily accessible food source at the right time of year. They only seemed to eat the head and body of the amphibians though, leaving the legs. Strange. It's common in Canada. In isolation the phenomena wouldn't necessarily make people think they have an otter proplem. But when you've already found the odd carp carcass it does ring more alarm bells.
My original post was regards any feedback from the club to the post on their members page. I don't do Facebook anyway. I've not rejoined as of yet for various reasons, but one being the potential otter issue. The club has history of ignoring this issue to the detriment of at least one of their waters in the past.
Yes I've also seen otters drag large carp (20lb plus) up steep banks. Another sign I've witnessed is the banks littered with body parts of hundreds of killed frogs and toads, as the otter takes advantage of a readilly/easily accessible food source at the right time of year. They only seemed to eat the head and body of the amphibians though, leaving the legs. Strange. It's common in Canada. In isolation the phenomena wouldn't necessarily make people think they have an otter proplem. But when you've already found the odd carp carcass it does ring more alarm bells.
My original post was regards any feedback from the club to the post on their members page. I don't do Facebook anyway. I've not rejoined as of yet for various reasons, but one being the potential otter issue. The club has history of ignoring this issue to the detriment of at least one of their waters in the past.
In reply to Post #32
oh they love a frog feast in spring, also coots! smashing them from underneath the water.
Spring time there is such an abundance of availably and gullible food food source, other than fish.
if said club is ignoring the warnings, then they will possibly lose everything, from fish to members.
Guess thats their ignorance and loss
oh they love a frog feast in spring, also coots! smashing them from underneath the water.
Spring time there is such an abundance of availably and gullible food food source, other than fish.
if said club is ignoring the warnings, then they will possibly lose everything, from fish to members.
Guess thats their ignorance and loss
In reply to Post #1
I'm no longer a member of Hull but I've a good few mates still on their books, they've not heard anything untoward about predation on Brough. Without witnessing it in person it would be difficult to say whether it was mink, heron, or otter etc.. And to be honest I've had long in the tooth anglers asking me if a mink they've seen is an otter!! So them telling me it's an otter kill I'd definitely take with a pinch of salt....
It's a very well run club, with the likes of Derek Pye and Kev Clifford involved I wouldn't be overly worried personally, if the club thought it had a problem they'd have had it sorted within asap.
I'm no longer a member of Hull but I've a good few mates still on their books, they've not heard anything untoward about predation on Brough. Without witnessing it in person it would be difficult to say whether it was mink, heron, or otter etc.. And to be honest I've had long in the tooth anglers asking me if a mink they've seen is an otter!! So them telling me it's an otter kill I'd definitely take with a pinch of salt....
It's a very well run club, with the likes of Derek Pye and Kev Clifford involved I wouldn't be overly worried personally, if the club thought it had a problem they'd have had it sorted within asap.
In reply to Post #34
Case and thread closed
Case and thread closed
I've just come in from checking two waters I manage..
I remember in 92 finding a lovely common 500 yards down stream beyond a bridge,there was a significant trail of single and scattered scales if I'd not seen those, I doubt I would know it was being predated,I didn't have the knowledge I have now though..sadly that lake is barren apart from a few little roach..
Mr Tinca,why come on here,ask the questions you have asked,and then answer your own question,that doesn't make sense to me..?
I mentioned it before,you are incorrect ,size and species are very important indicators to what could be ,or not be happening on your water..
Here is an example,there are no trout in this lake I know,yet the cormorant, in the past and recently regurgitated three trout,two rainbows and a moorland brownie...those fish come from a nearby ressi for sure...see what I'm driving at..there are other factors ,which could influence the visuality of predation finds.
Here is another,lake opposite my cottage virtually 1 min away,cormorant seen diving down ,no fish seen up.on the bank or on the surface,so me n the owner got the boat,..my oh my looking over the edge of the boat revealed 25 plus dead roach up to a pound and a single bream..so some predation goes unnoticed,and un collated..
Frenzy knows his stuff for sure,myself I spent over 30 years logging all the kills in all my water's locally,whilst being told it was not otter..being disbelieved ,made me impervious to others ignorance or stupidity..
Just get hold of Big picture one and two,which many people known and unknown have contributed to ,including myself and others..
Mike Heylin at the PAG...was the go to man...
I don't think.your club and members will.thank you for putting this out there tbh...it could be a simple factor...ie nothing to worry about..ie completely unnecessary
I remember in 92 finding a lovely common 500 yards down stream beyond a bridge,there was a significant trail of single and scattered scales if I'd not seen those, I doubt I would know it was being predated,I didn't have the knowledge I have now though..sadly that lake is barren apart from a few little roach..
Mr Tinca,why come on here,ask the questions you have asked,and then answer your own question,that doesn't make sense to me..?
I mentioned it before,you are incorrect ,size and species are very important indicators to what could be ,or not be happening on your water..
Here is an example,there are no trout in this lake I know,yet the cormorant, in the past and recently regurgitated three trout,two rainbows and a moorland brownie...those fish come from a nearby ressi for sure...see what I'm driving at..there are other factors ,which could influence the visuality of predation finds.
Here is another,lake opposite my cottage virtually 1 min away,cormorant seen diving down ,no fish seen up.on the bank or on the surface,so me n the owner got the boat,..my oh my looking over the edge of the boat revealed 25 plus dead roach up to a pound and a single bream..so some predation goes unnoticed,and un collated..
Frenzy knows his stuff for sure,myself I spent over 30 years logging all the kills in all my water's locally,whilst being told it was not otter..being disbelieved ,made me impervious to others ignorance or stupidity..
Just get hold of Big picture one and two,which many people known and unknown have contributed to ,including myself and others..
Mike Heylin at the PAG...was the go to man...
I don't think.your club and members will.thank you for putting this out there tbh...it could be a simple factor...ie nothing to worry about..ie completely unnecessary
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