Hi All

I'm after some advice/recommendations for a waterproof and breathable outer layer to go over my Snugpak SG9. I seem to have lost my last waterproof coat which was a kind of rubberised getup which was totally waterproof, but not breathable and even the slightest activity meant I would be sweating my t*ts off!

I'm all for British made products where I can, but will consider others as long as it's not Far East.

I've read good things about the Tennier ECWCS jackets which may be the one, but not sure I can be doing with hassle of importing one from the US especially as I'd have no clue on sizing. So are there any other top alternatives? I'm happy to pay proper money for right jacket. I've been looking online at the Hilltrek ventile, Mountain Method, Paramo and Fortis, but no experience of any of them. Has anyone got any real life experience in something suitable that would work and fit well over an SG9? I'd say my SG9 which is a large is pretty ‘fitted' on me.
Cheers

In reply to Post #1
All of the US ECWS jackets are decent. The Tennier one is best but pricey and rare and not the only option.
It's SJ9 btw

I have an sj9 and I don't think it's meant to be breathable I'm sweating and red faced after a bit of movement in it, great for sitting in the cold tho. I'm in the same boat as you atm and I've got a dpm army waterproof which I keep in my barrow but it's a bit small to fit over an sj9 so will probably get a bigger one of those.

In reply to Post #2
👍 should have remembered that as they're my initials😆

In reply to Post #4

In reply to Post #1
WHICH scores this well unless you want to spend at least another£100 quid for a tiny bit better spec ?
I would give this serious consideration LINKY POO


ME
personally wear German heavy duty Gor-Tex flectarn ex army its snagproof breathable and completely waterproof provided you keep it clean zipped trousers for takin a pee built in braces win win

Have a look on eBay for ‘ECWCS Parka' and don't just narrow it down looking for a Tennier one. There are other companies that got the US military contracts that are made to the exact same designs and spec, Tennessee Apparel and Alpha Industries being two that spring to mind

In reply to Post #6
Cheers Gerry - I'll take a closer look at the Rohan one. The fabric concerns me a bit on initial look as may not be that robust and prone to snagging etc. I want something that can take a few scrapes through brambles etc. Your German gore-tex army one seems more the ticket. I'm just concerned with sizing when buying stuff remotely as I'd want it to be able to fit over my SJ9 or down jacket in colder wet weather. At same time I don't want it like a tent so can be worn at other times of year.

In reply to Post #7
Cheers Chuffy - I read before that there were other alternatives to Tennier (I think actually posts you'd written). I'll keep an eye out. As said below my concern if buying something like that particularly if it ends up coming from the US would be sizing and not being able to exchange it. I guess I could always just sell it on if it doesn't fit. It seems the proper ECWCS jackets don't come up often over here and ideally I'd want a new one.

In reply to Post #1
Wouldn't go Paramo - it works in a different way to other fabrics and is better for high exertion activates. . .you need a 3layer fabric - 2/2.5Layer are not as hard wearing and also wet out quicker . . .

Patagonia Torrentshell 3L

In reply to Post #7
There's a Tennessee Apparel one on ebay atm. Also seller has got a plain green one which I would prob prefer over the camo. So these ones are the real deal then?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224399598873?hash=item343f422519%3Ag%3A%7EFMAAOSw3FZgXIbQ&LH_ItemCondition=3

In reply to Post #11
That looks like the genuine article, bit pricey though, I managed to pick one up on eBay that was practically brand new (you couldn't tell the difference TBH) for about £65 quid when I was over there, if you look at post #115 HERE you will see the one I got. In fact I can put the pictures up here as well

In reply to Post #12
Looks like you got a right bargain. I want to find one over here though just for ease if it doesn't fit. That one I've posted says can be returned. It's def not cheap but tbh it's far less cost than most jackets I've been considering which were typically starting around £350 for ventile or gore-tex.

In reply to Post #13
Yes I think I was bit lucky, it probably helped that I could have it delivered in to an address in the states as they probably weren't prepared to ship overseas. I think mines a Gen II which will be cheaper that the new Gen III

In reply to Post #12
. . .these look good but are they 'heavy' chuffy?

In reply to Post #15
I wouldn't say it was heavy weight wise but it's well made heavy duty material and bulkier than say the Highlander Tempest that I also have

My German Flectarn used for many many years metal detecting and fishing never let me down


jacket label 56/58 =EXTRA LARGE plus mine is EXTRA LONG great for extra protection !


TROUSER LABEL extra large = 56/58

In reply to Post #17
Looks good Gerry. I'd imagine the quality is equal to the US made ECWCS stuff. I'll see what I can find.

In reply to Post #18
YES I agree

to me for longevity the secret is to regularly WASH all waterproofs
BUT only with Wilko pure soap in the washing machine

dirt blocking the pores of the fibres stops the beading
every year I wash it with one of the many wash and proof like grangers wash and repel always 100% waterproof and very breathable I have metal detected walking all day for 12 hours where its been showers on and off all day and in the middle of a 250 acre field there is no were to hide never got clammy or wet and owned it for many years

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/363278600334?hash=item549517888e:g:OjQAAOSwM2ZgF6vF

That's a brand new Gen 1 Tennessee Apparel made size XL from France. The same seller has other sizes too, 'mint' used Tennier Industries made Gen 1 jackets. He even has one woodland camo pattern. The sizings are very standard to our own in the UK. You will be able to get exact sizings/measurements from the sellers. Any of the prices shown on fleabay from abroad will now also have added import tax when you go to buy it.

I got a Gen 3 from the States a couple of months ago, brand new. They do come up, they are very expensive jackets which are issued by the military.... You can buy them from source, but they cost a fortune. You will always get soldiers 'acquiring' an extra jacket and selling them on fleabay cheaper. Often these will be marked as 'used' as they will have no labels on.... But in reality have never even been worn. If you look at the sellers other items in that link I posted. You will see that the Tennier used jackets are only £10 more than the brand new ones. These will be brand new without tags, they might have a soldiers name in them but are essentially brand new you will find. They are acquired just to sell on because there is a good market for them. There is a good market for them, because they are amazing jackets. The only difference between Gen 1/2/3 is style of jacket. The Gore-Tex is all the same standard. They are the most copied jacket in the world by far. I have the Gen 2 woodland trousers too. You could lay down in a puddle and still be dry.

The Gen 3 is pukka, it's a much much lighter jacket. Just the shell, no lining etc. I much prefer it to my Gen 2 now, and that was the best jacket I've ever had. I only want a bare shell for fishing.... I always have a suitable jacket or mountain shirt on underneath anyway.

As an example.... This British Gore-Tex army jacket in the first photo lasted one winter before it leaked like a sieve. The Gen 2 US army jacket in the second photo is now eight winters old. It has seen some serious winter usage. It's still totally waterproof.

In reply to Post #19
Cheers Gerry👍

In reply to Post #20
Great info cheers. So the is the Tennessee parka I linked earlier on eBay the same as that one you have listed, but just different camo pattern? I've no clue about the different generations, but from what you have said if a gen 3 is just a top quality waterproof shell without lining then that would probably suit me best. I'm a sweaty guy at the best of times and I'd want option to wear it over insulated jacket as required.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224399598873?hash=item343f422519%3Ag%3A%7EFMAAOSw3FZgXIbQ&LH_ItemCondition=3

In reply to Post #22
Yes mate, same jacket different patterns. Don't hesitate, just buy it... Or someone else will!

I actually think my woodland camo jacket in the second photo is actually a Gen 1, not Gen 2. Same as the link you just posted. Same as Chuffy's jacket.

You will wear a Snugpak etc under both very easily. It's only a very thin nylon lining. The actual material on the Gen1/2 is alot thicker/heavier than on the Gen 3.

Watch this survival/hunting video. It compares the Gen 1 & 3. It will show you all you need to know I think.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oWmTgud0DY

In reply to Post #22
As far as I am aware with the Gen II they introduced the armpit zips

In reply to Post #24
Ahhhhh mine was the Gen 2 then.

The Gen 3 does not have the underarm zips. Thanks Chuffy that has answered a question I had been wondering about.

In reply to Post #20
A really interesting thread - thanks guys.

I've found a couple of US issue Gen 3 goretex jackets in digital goretex being sold on eBay. I'm after just a shell - so the Gen 3 sounds like the one to go for.

They are made by ‘Propper Ind' and ‘Tullahoma' respectively. Are those manufacturers decent ? Presumably if they are genuine US Issue, then they should be fine.

Any thoughts much appreciated....

Apologies for the inability to post a link; old age, senility etc etc.

In reply to Post #26
Yes mate I have seen them ones you mean. They are real.

A bargain too in mint condition.

That's exactly the same jacket that I have just imported from the states, just a different manufacturer & pattern.

In reply to Post #26
Have you found a UK supplier for the Gen 3 or are they in the US?

In reply to Post #28
He found a UK supplier. Free two day postage. But they are not brand new. They are listed as 'used'... 'mint'. Also they only have mediums and larges. Earlier your link was an XL.

Like I said below that will likely be brand new with no tags... Army supplies are not stored like shop goods... So it makes them hard to sell as brand new.

Give them a wash... They are essentially brand new.

In reply to Post #29
Yeah reckon I'd probably need an XL. I guess it depends on the fit and whether they come up large for their size. American sizing is often big.

In reply to Post #29
My mate who's in the army has also suggested looking at the Keela stuff. He said kit that isn't standard issue that British soldiers have to buy themselves is most often Keela and they rate it really highly.

In reply to Post #27
Thank you.

In reply to Post #29
Can you post a link to the UK supplier please...

In reply to Post #31
I like Keela too, bombproof, well thought out gear, often looked over as they aren't high street enough for most. Although they sell to the public they mainly manufacture for the military and services. The Munro is a great waterproof jacket that works on the same principle as Paramo. I've had one for years, retired it eventually and just used it on site. Good range of trousers too, the Alpines are proper mountain gear. Well worth a look if you can either find a local supplier or maybe Amazon with their easy return/refund policy.

In reply to Post #33
I think it may be same eBay supplier to the one I originally posted. The seller has looks to have lots of good gear for sale. Shame the gen 3 ECWCS parks seem to be too small for me that they have listed.

I think I've decided I really just need a waterproof and breathable outer shell without any form of lining. I've got plenty of options for layers underneath. I need it to be snag proof and robust and therefore it seems if I go for a US ECWCS then a gen 3 would suit best. That said the material on the gen 1 and 2 looks a bit tougher looking at the videos.

In reply to Post #33
I am presuming Squimp has purchased his jacket by now, it's been 24 hours and the one listed as mint has gone from yesterday.

As Simon said, it's the same seller as the one who was listing the jacket he posted a link too.

This one is a large. He has a medium too.

Simon, the material is much thicker on the woodland. Gen1/2. Much thicker and heavier as shown in that video. It actually makes a big weight difference. But remember my Gen2 has lasted 8 winters... And is bombproof. There is no guarantee that the Gen 3 will have the same reliability. I was willing to take the risk, and I prefer it. But it remains to be seen if it is as bombproof as the Gen 1/2.

The bloke in the video gives the Gen 3 a great review.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224339301786?hash=item343baa159a:g:XCcAAOSwv41gG9la

In reply to Post #36
Looking at the video you linked earlier, to me the gen 1 appears to be a heavier duty and probably a better stand alone jacket. The gen 3 looks to be much thinner and just a shell which is more along the lines of what I was originally after and would give more options for use throughout the year with different layers under. It's hard to tell from the video how hard wearing the gen 3 material would be against abrasion etc, which I'd imagine the gen 1 being able to take in its stride.
I talk about abrasion resistance as I'd probably end up using it as an occasional waterproof jacket when I'm working on site too.

In reply to Post #36
Bang on.

Said jacket should arrive in the next couple of days.

Size might be an issue (might be too big) and as for the longevity of the material - only time will tell. As Tcarper said, the jacket looks almost unused.

I'm used to buying quality mountaineering jackets (in sales!) - so paying (only) 90quid for this Gen 3 jacket seemed like a risk worth taking.....

Only one problem, my fishing mate and I have a long-standing pact that we would never, ever wear anything camo. So he might never speak/talk to me again !

In reply to Post #38
👍🤣🤣 I have to say I'm with you on camo. I've always tried to avoid it which is sort of putting me off all the ECWCS variants. The only think I've got that's camo is my fortis/snugpak sleeping bag and that's only because I got a good deal on it otherwise that would have just been the plain green one.
Let us know what you think when the gen 3 turns up. The gen 3 camo pattern is at least more subtle looking than the woodland camo on the gen 1/2's.

In reply to Post #39
Tullahoma Gen 3 jacket arrived.

It's unworn.
Very lightweight goretex shell jacket.
I like (!) the understated digital camo.
No pockets but 2 zipped slits to access pockets on inner layer.
Integrated foldaway adjustable hood.
Good 2 way front zip with Velcro over flap.
Simple Velcro cuffs.
Drawcord hem. It's quite a short cut -hip length.
Large regular is almost ‘square'. I'm 6ft and thin. Arms good length, body a bit big.
First Impression is that it's £89 well spent.

Thanks to all those who posted on this thread - it's been really helpful.

In reply to Post #40
Nice one. Sounds like you got a great bargain👍 I'm still on the lookout. I'm 6'1” and about 14.5st so think an XL is prob right size for me bearing in mind I'd want option to layer up under it. If you get a chance would you mind doing a chest measurement for me of your one. Cheers

In reply to Post #41
With the zip closed, pit to pit 28”

In reply to Post #42
Great - thanks for the info. That sounds fair bit larger than I was expecting. I reckon I'd get away with a large then rather than xl.

In reply to Post #43
Any tips for washing and reproofing an ECWCS Gen1.