Lost my only two bites this year from a tricky little syndicate. I am annoyed at my stupidity as I landed all I hooked last year - using a different rig.
So, funny bites, fish didn't take off really, on for 20 secs then all goes slack.
Decent length chod section, Hayward size 5 hook, 7 inch boom? What do you lot think?
My initial thoughts are bigger D perhaps or longer boom? Not that can I try it as in a rage I threw all my chod stuff away
So, funny bites, fish didn't take off really, on for 20 secs then all goes slack.
Decent length chod section, Hayward size 5 hook, 7 inch boom? What do you lot think?
My initial thoughts are bigger D perhaps or longer boom? Not that can I try it as in a rage I threw all my chod stuff away
In reply to Post #1
What are you fishing over buddy? As in the substrate.
What are you fishing over buddy? As in the substrate.
In reply to Post #2
Just the man, very clear, maybe a little silt but nothing else, the lake is barren really.
Just the man, very clear, maybe a little silt but nothing else, the lake is barren really.
In reply to Post #1
Couple of thoughts (and no real answers!):
What baiting situation? If fishing over chops, crumb (ie spombed/spodded) id go for a more delicate presentation generally.
If over a spread of boilies then the different lengths look about what i would use with no problem.
Personally i have had better hook holds on a 'gently' curved chod section (though plenty use a much more aggressively curved one so make of that what you will).
one thing i found crucial is that the hook is in the same plane as the curve of the hooklink (ie all in line).
One other thing i guess is that the water is still quite cold (depending on depth), so likely still picking at baits which might result in less than idea hook holds.
Couple of thoughts (and no real answers!):
What baiting situation? If fishing over chops, crumb (ie spombed/spodded) id go for a more delicate presentation generally.
If over a spread of boilies then the different lengths look about what i would use with no problem.
Personally i have had better hook holds on a 'gently' curved chod section (though plenty use a much more aggressively curved one so make of that what you will).
one thing i found crucial is that the hook is in the same plane as the curve of the hooklink (ie all in line).
One other thing i guess is that the water is still quite cold (depending on depth), so likely still picking at baits which might result in less than idea hook holds.
In reply to Post #3
Try a bottom bait or wafter buddy. It could just be a case that they're not smashing the hookbait as it's so blatant.
Try a bottom bait or wafter buddy. It could just be a case that they're not smashing the hookbait as it's so blatant.
In reply to Post #5
id be using the multi rig with a curve hook on a bottom bait on an in-line lead set up
id be using the multi rig with a curve hook on a bottom bait on an in-line lead set up
In reply to Post #4
Just fishing singles, I thought that perhaps they may snatch at a blatant pop-up - interesting re the plane of the hook
Just fishing singles, I thought that perhaps they may snatch at a blatant pop-up - interesting re the plane of the hook
In reply to Post #5
ah I see. Thanks ill revert back to my bottom bait set up
ah I see. Thanks ill revert back to my bottom bait set up
In reply to Post #6
Funnily enough last years (and prior) set up was similar.
Hard to describe really, but hooklength looped over the hook if you will like a multi but then whipped over - nailed them with a size 5 trighammer.
Funnily enough last years (and prior) set up was similar.
Hard to describe really, but hooklength looped over the hook if you will like a multi but then whipped over - nailed them with a size 5 trighammer.
In reply to Post #9
Lesson 1. If you're nailing them don't change anything 
Lesson 1. If you're nailing them don't change anything
In reply to Post #9
the only rig i use mate in the last 20 yrs, various adaptaions.
i use a fluro boom, albright knot to softer material, leave the coating on to make the loop.
if i could figure out how to post photos on here i would put one up
the only rig i use mate in the last 20 yrs, various adaptaions.
i use a fluro boom, albright knot to softer material, leave the coating on to make the loop.
if i could figure out how to post photos on here i would put one up
In reply to Post #11
messaged ref pic posting
messaged ref pic posting
In reply to Post #12
topman
topman
In reply to Post #1
You got any small carp in the syndicate, or fish with dodgy parrot mouths ?
Could just be not picking the bait up properly, or snatching it.
You got any small carp in the syndicate, or fish with dodgy parrot mouths ?
Could just be not picking the bait up properly, or snatching it.
In reply to Post #10
I know, moronic idea. Here endeth the lesson lol
Question - did the HSR, being quite tall get a bite that I wouldn't of otherwise had on a less obvious setup do you reckon?
I know, moronic idea. Here endeth the lesson lol
Question - did the HSR, being quite tall get a bite that I wouldn't of otherwise had on a less obvious setup do you reckon?
In reply to Post #14
Yes., there is only small carp in there really not a lot of them and rather tricky to catch - so still quite annoying.
Yes., there is only small carp in there really not a lot of them and rather tricky to catch - so still quite annoying.
In reply to Post #15
Only one way to find out buddy.
Only one way to find out buddy.
In reply to Post #17
Aye, tis for sure.
Thanks all.
Aye, tis for sure.
Thanks all.
In reply to Post #14
Some mileage in that.
I use it depending on the water. Fished it a couple of years ago on a water that contained old fish up to around 20lb that have small mouths, lost a couple, hook pulls. I was fishing Fluro booms over blanket weed, couple this with fish that did not seem to know what a hook was, didn't bolt, just beeps and I lost them. I know a lot of people fish them on a more flexible boom, I just changed rigs. got to be how the rig sits in the mouth or does not enter properly for me 
Some mileage in that.
I use it depending on the water. Fished it a couple of years ago on a water that contained old fish up to around 20lb that have small mouths, lost a couple, hook pulls. I was fishing Fluro booms over blanket weed, couple this with fish that did not seem to know what a hook was, didn't bolt, just beeps and I lost them. I know a lot of people fish them on a more flexible boom, I just changed rigs. got to be how the rig sits in the mouth or does not enter properly for me
In reply to Post #19
Who knows, someone caught a little stocky the other day on a HSR that was nailed that made me think that it was either just lucky or that I was doing something wrong - probably both.
Anyway, they are starting to feed a little now so ill be wanging out bottom baits for the foreseeable.
Who knows, someone caught a little stocky the other day on a HSR that was nailed that made me think that it was either just lucky or that I was doing something wrong - probably both.
Anyway, they are starting to feed a little now so ill be wanging out bottom baits for the foreseeable.
In reply to Post #20
Personally I think that the smaller the carp in size, and their ratio of feeding experience/skull size/eyes/mouth, and depth of water, have a effect of the feeding habits. Better to use a standard bottom bait, or a low pop up on a multi rig.
A big carp is more experienced at feeding, has a bigger skull/eye blind spot/mouth area and most of the time, less rushed or clumsy feeders.
What I mean is when you can watch a small carp tip and drop to feed, a 3 or 4 inch (bottom of swivel to top of pop up) can come up to their eyes or higher when they are clumsy, or miss it repeatedly, the pop up movement or wafting about, can cause them to suss it out. Same thing with carp with dodgy mouths.
I had fished a clear venue with a 4 to 5 foot deep margin shelf spot going with 7 upper singles/low doubles visiting a spot, watched them eat every freebie around my pair of wonder 3 to 4” blatant HSRs.
Moved both rods to different spots along the margin. Same result
A bog standard knotless knot on a 6” white cortland micron hook link and a out of the bag 15mm bottom bait tripping one up, I watched it pick the hookbait up.
As I found out... Don't be a slave to fashionable, or Xmas tree rigs with smaller carp, sometimes simple, is best.
Bear that in mind.
Personally I think that the smaller the carp in size, and their ratio of feeding experience/skull size/eyes/mouth, and depth of water, have a effect of the feeding habits. Better to use a standard bottom bait, or a low pop up on a multi rig.
A big carp is more experienced at feeding, has a bigger skull/eye blind spot/mouth area and most of the time, less rushed or clumsy feeders.
What I mean is when you can watch a small carp tip and drop to feed, a 3 or 4 inch (bottom of swivel to top of pop up) can come up to their eyes or higher when they are clumsy, or miss it repeatedly, the pop up movement or wafting about, can cause them to suss it out. Same thing with carp with dodgy mouths.
I had fished a clear venue with a 4 to 5 foot deep margin shelf spot going with 7 upper singles/low doubles visiting a spot, watched them eat every freebie around my pair of wonder 3 to 4” blatant HSRs.
Moved both rods to different spots along the margin. Same result
A bog standard knotless knot on a 6” white cortland micron hook link and a out of the bag 15mm bottom bait tripping one up, I watched it pick the hookbait up.
As I found out... Don't be a slave to fashionable, or Xmas tree rigs with smaller carp, sometimes simple, is best.
Bear that in mind.
In reply to Post #21
Agree on all counts, thanks for the input.
Agree on all counts, thanks for the input.
In reply to Post #1
In my experience the HSR is one of the most reliable rigs. The mechanics naturally encourage centre bottom lip hook holds. The size of the carp possibly makes a difference, it's a big fish rig, that's for sure, but I've caught plenty of smaller fish too. For me it's important that the rig can spin freely under the bait. The curve in the stiff filament should be such that the rig will always spin no matter which angle the fish approaches. If you hold the bait between thump and forefinger the rig should freely spin under it without coming into contact with the bait. If it doesn't spin freely this is possibly your problem.
In my experience the HSR is one of the most reliable rigs. The mechanics naturally encourage centre bottom lip hook holds. The size of the carp possibly makes a difference, it's a big fish rig, that's for sure, but I've caught plenty of smaller fish too. For me it's important that the rig can spin freely under the bait. The curve in the stiff filament should be such that the rig will always spin no matter which angle the fish approaches. If you hold the bait between thump and forefinger the rig should freely spin under it without coming into contact with the bait. If it doesn't spin freely this is possibly your problem.
In reply to Post #1
Lengthen the boom by an inch and swap it to Tungskin. Size 4 hook and a max of 1.5 inch 20 lb stiff flouro for the stiff section
Lengthen the boom by an inch and swap it to Tungskin. Size 4 hook and a max of 1.5 inch 20 lb stiff flouro for the stiff section
In reply to Post #11
Also pm'd
Also pm'd
In reply to Post #23
Having a mare lads, dropped another this afternoon on my old, supposedly reliable rig.
Same bait, same spot - fish took off kited left a couple of rod lengths and when I picked up the rod nothing.
Im going to lengthen the hooklink by an inch, if that fails then im blaming it on the little catfish!
Having a mare lads, dropped another this afternoon on my old, supposedly reliable rig.
Same bait, same spot - fish took off kited left a couple of rod lengths and when I picked up the rod nothing.
Im going to lengthen the hooklink by an inch, if that fails then im blaming it on the little catfish!
In reply to Post #26
When you say moved left, has your actual lead and rig been moved quite a way from your original spot, as in something definitely picked it up, moved the rig and dropped it / you lost it, Otherwise it could be liners?
You really need to be able to feel the fish to make judgement on whether it was a hookpull
When you say moved left, has your actual lead and rig been moved quite a way from your original spot, as in something definitely picked it up, moved the rig and dropped it / you lost it, Otherwise it could be liners?
You really need to be able to feel the fish to make judgement on whether it was a hookpull
In reply to Post #27
First one pulled into fish, it moved left then fell off - felt the fish. HSR
Second, different spot, drop back then slight forward movement, pulled into fish, felt the fish, 10 secs or so and it was off - HSR
Third, same spot as fist, it moved everything left, lead and all a good two rod lengths (with little indication - bow in line, wind, slack lines I reckon) didn't feel a thing then off. Multi type rig
First one pulled into fish, it moved left then fell off - felt the fish. HSR
Second, different spot, drop back then slight forward movement, pulled into fish, felt the fish, 10 secs or so and it was off - HSR
Third, same spot as fist, it moved everything left, lead and all a good two rod lengths (with little indication - bow in line, wind, slack lines I reckon) didn't feel a thing then off. Multi type rig
In reply to Post #28
I experienced similar last year using the hsr and I put it down to the smaller stockies getting foul hooked , blistering takes and pretty much lift into nothing, I think they get hooked in the pec ... I should go on to add that same session same rigs I landed some fairly impressive fish . The hsr has been my go to.rig for 95% of my angling in the last 10 years
I experienced similar last year using the hsr and I put it down to the smaller stockies getting foul hooked , blistering takes and pretty much lift into nothing, I think they get hooked in the pec ... I should go on to add that same session same rigs I landed some fairly impressive fish . The hsr has been my go to.rig for 95% of my angling in the last 10 years
In reply to Post #29
Id guess that its fish getting fouled as they grub around on the bottom too.
Increase the curve on the hook section so its almost a withy curve to mask the hook point more, it will still hook if taken in but much more likely to bounce away from a greedy stocky.
Maybe fish a bottom bait.
Id guess that its fish getting fouled as they grub around on the bottom too.
Increase the curve on the hook section so its almost a withy curve to mask the hook point more, it will still hook if taken in but much more likely to bounce away from a greedy stocky.
Maybe fish a bottom bait.
In reply to Post #28
Another thing to point out... the important bit, the balancing of the pop up itself.
by that I mean are you presenting your rigs - critical balanced, slow sinking, or over heavy/over weighted ( compared to a freebie sinking rate )
Watching feeding fish close to wafting pops up, and about, due to their size, or feeding tails or fins is an interesting one, and can lead to foul hooking, spooking carp.
Another thing to point out... the important bit, the balancing of the pop up itself.
by that I mean are you presenting your rigs - critical balanced, slow sinking, or over heavy/over weighted ( compared to a freebie sinking rate )
Watching feeding fish close to wafting pops up, and about, due to their size, or feeding tails or fins is an interesting one, and can lead to foul hooking, spooking carp.
In reply to Post #28
Are you fishing over spod mix ,pellets ,little bits by any chance?
Are you fishing over spod mix ,pellets ,little bits by any chance?
In reply to Post #32
Typing from the bank - just lost another lol pulled into fresh air
Singles mate.
I'm at a loss, four times in a row? I'm using pineaphell and scent from hell popups I'm wondering if the cats have a taste for crab.
Or pike, loads in the margins, snatching at bright popups?
Switched over to bottom baits despite there being a bit of leaf litter around
Never experienced this before
Typing from the bank - just lost another lol pulled into fresh air
Singles mate.
I'm at a loss, four times in a row? I'm using pineaphell and scent from hell popups I'm wondering if the cats have a taste for crab.
Or pike, loads in the margins, snatching at bright popups?
Switched over to bottom baits despite there being a bit of leaf litter around
Never experienced this before
In reply to Post #33
Could it be pike spawning smashing your lines giving false bites maybe? If over lots of little bait I'd say foul hooking is likely but as you are on singles I doubt it's that
Could it be pike spawning smashing your lines giving false bites maybe? If over lots of little bait I'd say foul hooking is likely but as you are on singles I doubt it's that
HSR... took me a while to work out what that was.. do love an Acronym..
In reply to Post #35
Please share
Please share
In reply to Post #36
Hinge stiff rig innit.
Hinge stiff rig innit.
In reply to Post #34
No idea, could be pike - it's not happening to anyone else though?
No idea, could be pike - it's not happening to anyone else though?
In my experience Pike love a Scent From Hell popped up. White in particular, had a load of jacks on those.
In reply to Post #37
Thanks!!
Thanks!!
In reply to Post #39
Well that's good to hear!
There was a load stocked in the winter and they are now in the margins of every peg - I am fishing the opposite margin but in around 7ft of water
Well that's good to hear!
There was a load stocked in the winter and they are now in the margins of every peg - I am fishing the opposite margin but in around 7ft of water
In reply to Post #36
High speed railway.. no wonder your losing fish..
High speed railway.. no wonder your losing fish..
In reply to Post #33
Sounds like a trailer doing the rounds to me.
Sounds like a trailer doing the rounds to me.
In reply to Post #33
I agree. Could be a trailer, or even pike smashing fry in the margins - I've been caught out with that before too.
HSR is one of the best rigs for reliable hook holds - I think something else is happening.
I agree. Could be a trailer, or even pike smashing fry in the margins - I've been caught out with that before too.
HSR is one of the best rigs for reliable hook holds - I think something else is happening.
In reply to Post #44
Think I agree lads, moved off the margin and it has all stopped. Pike I reckon, they are everywhere
Think I agree lads, moved off the margin and it has all stopped. Pike I reckon, they are everywhere
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