Hi guys I'm making some scopex squid pop ups with the hookbait kit, my question is without the faff of using cork balls what ratio of base mix to pop up mix would people recommend?? At £6.99 a kit and most places out of stock don't wanna waste it experimenting.
I was thinking 3:1 pop up mix/base mix for nice buoyant pop ups
I was thinking 3:1 pop up mix/base mix for nice buoyant pop ups
In reply to Post #1
Personally if you want proper food based pop ups and you don't want to do corks, my preference is for cork dust rather than cutting the base mix with pop up mix. It's only a fiver a bag from cc Moore's. It's difficult to give an amount of pop up mix you'd need as each bottom bait mix is so different. With cork dust, 20% will give you a pop up from your hookbait kit.
Personally if you want proper food based pop ups and you don't want to do corks, my preference is for cork dust rather than cutting the base mix with pop up mix. It's only a fiver a bag from cc Moore's. It's difficult to give an amount of pop up mix you'd need as each bottom bait mix is so different. With cork dust, 20% will give you a pop up from your hookbait kit.
In reply to Post #2
Yeah that's what I was worried about some mixes are heavier aren't they so might take experimentation. Think cork dust it is cheers mate
Yeah that's what I was worried about some mixes are heavier aren't they so might take experimentation. Think cork dust it is cheers mate
In reply to Post #3
and the point of a "food" based pop up is
and the point of a "food" based pop up is
In reply to Post #4
Take scopex squids for example, the base mix itself contains feed stimulants and amino acids, I could just use the scopex squid liquid from the kit in a pop up mix but it's severely lacking the extra stimulants from the base mix.
Or did you think the big companies match the hatch style pop ups are just pop up mix flavour and dye?? Nope they contain a small ratio of the base mix
Take scopex squids for example, the base mix itself contains feed stimulants and amino acids, I could just use the scopex squid liquid from the kit in a pop up mix but it's severely lacking the extra stimulants from the base mix.
Or did you think the big companies match the hatch style pop ups are just pop up mix flavour and dye?? Nope they contain a small ratio of the base mix
In reply to Post #5
ummmm
attractants are different from food, and as no fish actually eat said pop ups, they will never know its a "food"
i may well be wrong
ummmm
attractants are different from food, and as no fish actually eat said pop ups, they will never know its a "food"
i may well be wrong
In reply to Post #6
Ok missuse of terminology then, pop ups that contain the same attractants, amino's and some of the base mix pop ups how's that sound lol
Ok missuse of terminology then, pop ups that contain the same attractants, amino's and some of the base mix pop ups how's that sound lol
In reply to Post #7
sounds perfick 
sounds perfick
In reply to Post #8
😂😂
😂😂
In reply to Post #1
I tend to always use cork balls for wafters or pop ups, obviously both round, I do add a small amount of pop up mix as I find the finished hookbaits are always a shade darker than the freebies. For barrels I've some fine cork dust and some cork granules mixed with egg albumen, again with a touch of pop up mix added.
Fine tune the buoyancy using your intended rig etc prior to boiling but be mindful they will be slightly more buoyant as they dry out.
All my hookbaits are food baits, I don't use attractors as such, so they need to match the freebies as close as possible.
I tend to always use cork balls for wafters or pop ups, obviously both round, I do add a small amount of pop up mix as I find the finished hookbaits are always a shade darker than the freebies. For barrels I've some fine cork dust and some cork granules mixed with egg albumen, again with a touch of pop up mix added.
Fine tune the buoyancy using your intended rig etc prior to boiling but be mindful they will be slightly more buoyant as they dry out.
All my hookbaits are food baits, I don't use attractors as such, so they need to match the freebies as close as possible.
In reply to Post #10
That's exactly my point most pop ups especially fluoros are just flavours. I know the carp aren't eating the pop ups but I was wanting the same make up of the bait just with the pop up mix cut with the base mix
That's exactly my point most pop ups especially fluoros are just flavours. I know the carp aren't eating the pop ups but I was wanting the same make up of the bait just with the pop up mix cut with the base mix
The point of food based hookbaits is to match the freebies. It really is as simple as that.
In reply to Post #11
Yeah I agree, most folks aren't too bothered though, if it's the right colour and smells nice they are happy enough. Again you're right most hookbaits sold are over flavoured plain blanks, I've done it myself in the past with some success but I've a lot more confidence in a bait as near identical to my free offerings.
Yeah I agree, most folks aren't too bothered though, if it's the right colour and smells nice they are happy enough. Again you're right most hookbaits sold are over flavoured plain blanks, I've done it myself in the past with some success but I've a lot more confidence in a bait as near identical to my free offerings.
In reply to Post #11
There's absolutely no reason for pop ups to be over flavoured dye balls. People make them like that cos they are either lazy, or want to flog a load of gash to people who don't know any better or simply haven't got any idea what to put in them. Or a combination of all three.
Personally I like cork dust pop ups for the reasons you've stated but I will also happily fish with a proper fluro if it's not a dye marble.
The plenty of readily available ingredients out there to make some great fluro pop ups. Both liquids and powders, oils and flavours. Tons of info available for free as well. Frank Warwick has never hidden what he puts in them.
There's absolutely no reason for pop ups to be over flavoured dye balls. People make them like that cos they are either lazy, or want to flog a load of gash to people who don't know any better or simply haven't got any idea what to put in them. Or a combination of all three.
Personally I like cork dust pop ups for the reasons you've stated but I will also happily fish with a proper fluro if it's not a dye marble.
The plenty of readily available ingredients out there to make some great fluro pop ups. Both liquids and powders, oils and flavours. Tons of info available for free as well. Frank Warwick has never hidden what he puts in them.
In reply to Post #14
You summed up perfectly, unfortunately, the vast majority of bait manufacturers and modern consumers with your second comment re load of gash!
You summed up perfectly, unfortunately, the vast majority of bait manufacturers and modern consumers with your second comment re load of gash!
In reply to Post #14
Precisely mate, I'm still upgrading my rolling set up and getting stocked up on ingredients, to start a hookbait making buisness but unlike a lot of the other small companies I see doing it(fbook is the worst for it atm) nine will be more than just overflavoured balls of dye and pop up mix
Precisely mate, I'm still upgrading my rolling set up and getting stocked up on ingredients, to start a hookbait making buisness but unlike a lot of the other small companies I see doing it(fbook is the worst for it atm) nine will be more than just overflavoured balls of dye and pop up mix
In reply to Post #15
Pop ups in the past were made out of inedible non attractive materials then coated with flavour. I never did very well on that type of bait personally. These days technology has moved on and we can now make hookbaits loaded with food items that could be eaten. The ratio of 95 percent non edible to 5 percent edible means you are fishing with a visible lure but not much else. We can now reverse that ratio. The pop ups produced by most companies today are still very poor and have very little attraction hence why goo is so popular! But if you dig around there are some very clever hookbaits out there
Pop ups in the past were made out of inedible non attractive materials then coated with flavour. I never did very well on that type of bait personally. These days technology has moved on and we can now make hookbaits loaded with food items that could be eaten. The ratio of 95 percent non edible to 5 percent edible means you are fishing with a visible lure but not much else. We can now reverse that ratio. The pop ups produced by most companies today are still very poor and have very little attraction hence why goo is so popular! But if you dig around there are some very clever hookbaits out there
In reply to Post #17
Most are made from completely non edible pop up mix, yes it's possible to make them with other light ingredients but is it really cost effective??
Most are made from completely non edible pop up mix, yes it's possible to make them with other light ingredients but is it really cost effective??
In reply to Post #18
You could make it from HiNuVal and still make a killing. How many 14mm baits do you get from a kilo? 20 odd baits to a tub, £10 a tub (as they are extra special)......
You could make it from HiNuVal and still make a killing. How many 14mm baits do you get from a kilo? 20 odd baits to a tub, £10 a tub (as they are extra special)......
I always make pop up with the same mix I do the bottom baits and freebies, just after done the baits I use the remaining paste and wrap it around cork ball, then steam it and let it air dry. Those are the most successful pop up I ever used, just because they match the other baits. Obviously, they don't remain days on end on the rig as the commercial ones in waiting for a carp, but IMHO they are better, or at least, I caught more on it.
In the past I messed with pop up mix, plain or cut with the mix used for freebies, the best I found was been the old nutrabaits, those we need to cook with a fryer pan... I would be really curious to know what's the original recipe was.
In the past I messed with pop up mix, plain or cut with the mix used for freebies, the best I found was been the old nutrabaits, those we need to cook with a fryer pan... I would be really curious to know what's the original recipe was.
In reply to Post #19
No one will pay £10 a tub for 20 baits mate people moan about ccmoore tubs being half empty but still contain 30-40 baits lol,
I have been put in touch with someone who has shown me how to do it
No one will pay £10 a tub for 20 baits mate people moan about ccmoore tubs being half empty but still contain 30-40 baits lol,
I have been put in touch with someone who has shown me how to do it
In reply to Post #21
Ive seen pots of corkballs going for 18.50 and im pretty sure theres only 30 or so in there. Frankly its amazing what people pay for hookbaits myself included but then its fun to experiment and mess around. Like most say , any hookbait would probably ddo but we try our hardest.
Ive seen pots of corkballs going for 18.50 and im pretty sure theres only 30 or so in there. Frankly its amazing what people pay for hookbaits myself included but then its fun to experiment and mess around. Like most say , any hookbait would probably ddo but we try our hardest.
In reply to Post #21
But if you charge £6 for 30, they cant be special enough can they?
Personally wouldn't use a hookbait that costs less than 50p each.......
But if you charge £6 for 30, they cant be special enough can they?
Personally wouldn't use a hookbait that costs less than 50p each.......
In reply to Post #22
Cork balls are made by hand, you are paying for someone's time to knock up a good attractive basemix then make it stick to a cork ball. It's very time consuming just ask anyone who makes them. I do not begrudge 15-20 quid to someone who can actually do a good job on cork balls. Again we make them and it's an awkward job. In fact making decent hookbaits in general is way more complicated than people think, but I'm not just talking about pop up mix and 10 mil of flavour added 😉
Cork balls are made by hand, you are paying for someone's time to knock up a good attractive basemix then make it stick to a cork ball. It's very time consuming just ask anyone who makes them. I do not begrudge 15-20 quid to someone who can actually do a good job on cork balls. Again we make them and it's an awkward job. In fact making decent hookbaits in general is way more complicated than people think, but I'm not just talking about pop up mix and 10 mil of flavour added 😉
Well that's opened my eyes chaps as this is exactly gonna be part of the buisness is people can customise their mixes, essential oils, feed stimulants, amino's etc which I was gonna charge £6 a tub for but think that might go up
In reply to Post #23
Mine are £6 for 30 pop ups and I can assure you a lot goes into them. In fact at that price I'm not actually making a lot on a tub, obviously that £6 includes buying tubs, lids and having the labels printed, plus buying all the ingredients. My time is basically free. Put it this way at £6 a tub I won't be retiring any time soon, but it's a little interesting hobby business for me. My plumbing and heating business pays the bills. So just cos something isn't £18 a tub it doesn't mean it's crap.
Mine are £6 for 30 pop ups and I can assure you a lot goes into them. In fact at that price I'm not actually making a lot on a tub, obviously that £6 includes buying tubs, lids and having the labels printed, plus buying all the ingredients. My time is basically free. Put it this way at £6 a tub I won't be retiring any time soon, but it's a little interesting hobby business for me. My plumbing and heating business pays the bills. So just cos something isn't £18 a tub it doesn't mean it's crap.
In reply to Post #26
I don't think he was referring to you mate
I don't think he was referring to you mate
In reply to Post #26
Will give you an example
Mix one -
BAF pop up mix
Blend of 4 flavours
Sweetner
2 stimulant powders
3 liquid amino acids
1 feed inducer
Dye
Mix two -
BAF pop up mix
1 flavour
Sweetner
Dye
Are those going to be the same price?? No everything has to be costed and factored in, like you I'm not doing it to make loads so I can retire lol I'm doing it as a) I love making hookbaits/mixes/flavour blends etc
And b) it will help pay off my mortgage a tiny bit faster haha
Will give you an example
Mix one -
BAF pop up mix
Blend of 4 flavours
Sweetner
2 stimulant powders
3 liquid amino acids
1 feed inducer
Dye
Mix two -
BAF pop up mix
1 flavour
Sweetner
Dye
Are those going to be the same price?? No everything has to be costed and factored in, like you I'm not doing it to make loads so I can retire lol I'm doing it as a) I love making hookbaits/mixes/flavour blends etc
And b) it will help pay off my mortgage a tiny bit faster haha
In reply to Post #28
Ive been taking the piss on the thread, but seriously - you want to start a business when you don't actually know how to put a bait together? How are you going to market this when you've got no history in hook baits (Show us your albums (C) Premier baits, 1985) What makes your baits different to the other companies that will roll corkballs from base mix? If you cant come up with a good reason/album full of lumps/USP then the only thing you can compete on is price, and that becomes a race to the bottom. Which wont pay the mortgage off quicker......
You may have to start off giving them to friends/people on local lakes and build it from there. For a lot of people, its a hobby, rather than a living.
Ive been taking the piss on the thread, but seriously - you want to start a business when you don't actually know how to put a bait together? How are you going to market this when you've got no history in hook baits (Show us your albums (C) Premier baits, 1985) What makes your baits different to the other companies that will roll corkballs from base mix? If you cant come up with a good reason/album full of lumps/USP then the only thing you can compete on is price, and that becomes a race to the bottom. Which wont pay the mortgage off quicker......
You may have to start off giving them to friends/people on local lakes and build it from there. For a lot of people, its a hobby, rather than a living.
In reply to Post #29
Well then you a bit of a w****r never said I didn't know how to put a bait together just wasn't sure of ratio to pop up mix. Honestly what was the point of that lol
Well then you a bit of a w****r never said I didn't know how to put a bait together just wasn't sure of ratio to pop up mix. Honestly what was the point of that lol
In reply to Post #29
And again I even stated it's not to make a living lol I'm gonna assume your slightly special. But good to know there's another idiot on here to go with a lot of the others.
To the people who made genuine replies cheers
And again I even stated it's not to make a living lol I'm gonna assume your slightly special. But good to know there's another idiot on here to go with a lot of the others.
To the people who made genuine replies cheers
In reply to Post #30
A special wa***er - you've got me in one.
You mention paying off mortgage quicker
You mention you've been put in touch with someone that'll show you how to make them
You aren't sure of the ratio's to use.
The mixes you've mentioned are both shop bought
If you're trying to have special “match the hatch” pop ups, then you've got to invest in a lot of different base mixes, flavours/liquids, or they don't match. But crack on, good luck
A special wa***er - you've got me in one.
You mention paying off mortgage quicker
You mention you've been put in touch with someone that'll show you how to make them
You aren't sure of the ratio's to use.
The mixes you've mentioned are both shop bought
If you're trying to have special “match the hatch” pop ups, then you've got to invest in a lot of different base mixes, flavours/liquids, or they don't match. But crack on, good luck
In reply to Post #32
I got put in touch with someone who could tell me about the ratios of base mix/pop up mix lol the rest I know just fine. You mentioned a USP well it wouldn't be very smart for me to put what it is on a public forum you clown lol.
And I said quicker not instantly lol it's gonna take a long time I'm not an idiot I'm starting small local area etc already been doing exactly what you mentioned making sample batches and giving them out free at the local complexes which have on site shops to give away too
Not being sure on ratio of base mix to pop up mix doesn't mean i don't know a thing mate that's a mighty assumption lol
I got put in touch with someone who could tell me about the ratios of base mix/pop up mix lol the rest I know just fine. You mentioned a USP well it wouldn't be very smart for me to put what it is on a public forum you clown lol.
And I said quicker not instantly lol it's gonna take a long time I'm not an idiot I'm starting small local area etc already been doing exactly what you mentioned making sample batches and giving them out free at the local complexes which have on site shops to give away too
Not being sure on ratio of base mix to pop up mix doesn't mean i don't know a thing mate that's a mighty assumption lol
Anyway if the mods want to lock as some people were kind enough to not take the piss and I have my answer so not needed anymore
In reply to Post #33
Jamie,
Good luck in your venture.
If you know your end product, you know the perfect ratio's right?
You just aren't there yet, so that is still ‘field testing' in progress and should be costed as such, until you get them spot on. Just takes time.
The problem with the bait game IMHO is.....
1, Human labour time in production
2, Consistency of base product, corkball or air ball mix, buoyancy issues.
3, Fresh ingredients.
4, Old skool magic flavours/enhancers, demand & supply, and is it financially viable to compete with other custom companies willing to pay OTT prices?
5, Seasonal price variations in ingredient cost
6, Marketing
7, Reliable reputation
8, Right time, Right place for your business opportunity
9, To make a profit. Unless it is a labour of love 💕
10, Moaning customers, expecting too much in the way of results, despite bad angling on their part.
11, Your own angling time may suffer as a result, less time on the bank
Good luck.
Jamie,
Good luck in your venture.
If you know your end product, you know the perfect ratio's right?
You just aren't there yet, so that is still ‘field testing' in progress and should be costed as such, until you get them spot on. Just takes time.
The problem with the bait game IMHO is.....
1, Human labour time in production
2, Consistency of base product, corkball or air ball mix, buoyancy issues.
3, Fresh ingredients.
4, Old skool magic flavours/enhancers, demand & supply, and is it financially viable to compete with other custom companies willing to pay OTT prices?
5, Seasonal price variations in ingredient cost
6, Marketing
7, Reliable reputation
8, Right time, Right place for your business opportunity
9, To make a profit. Unless it is a labour of love 💕
10, Moaning customers, expecting too much in the way of results, despite bad angling on their part.
11, Your own angling time may suffer as a result, less time on the bank
Good luck.
In reply to Post #35
Thanks mate and yes been pointed in the right direction as far as ratio is concerned. I know how to make a pop up mix from scratch I'm just not doing it in my kitchen haha.
I'm starting very small got 15 people who have received pots from the sample batches they are going to be testing while I stock up on ingredients. I'm literally at the start just doing test batches and getting ingredients and upgrading my rolling set up I know it's going to take years to make money but as pointed out I genuinely enjoy it so all spare time is devoted at the moment I have experience costing from my previous job. Going to be staying small so human labour is me atm
Thanks mate and yes been pointed in the right direction as far as ratio is concerned. I know how to make a pop up mix from scratch I'm just not doing it in my kitchen haha.
I'm starting very small got 15 people who have received pots from the sample batches they are going to be testing while I stock up on ingredients. I'm literally at the start just doing test batches and getting ingredients and upgrading my rolling set up I know it's going to take years to make money but as pointed out I genuinely enjoy it so all spare time is devoted at the moment I have experience costing from my previous job. Going to be staying small so human labour is me atm
In reply to Post #36
You have to have a passion, or buzz, to do something, better to have a try, than think what if ?
Early Product Fail, tweak, Re-tweak, test, you will get there.
If it was that easy, everybody would be doing it.
Like you I enjoy messing with home rolled bait and hookbaits.
Go for it mate.
You have to have a passion, or buzz, to do something, better to have a try, than think what if ?
Early Product Fail, tweak, Re-tweak, test, you will get there.
If it was that easy, everybody would be doing it.
Like you I enjoy messing with home rolled bait and hookbaits.
Go for it mate.
In reply to Post #35
It's 100% a labour of love at the moment with the aim a long way down the line eventually making a little bit from. I get a genuine buzz from people catching off of my hookbaits have been playing around with them for a few years anyway, a mate broke his pb on our local using one it's a great feeling. Hence my reaction to that other idiot just taking the piss
It's 100% a labour of love at the moment with the aim a long way down the line eventually making a little bit from. I get a genuine buzz from people catching off of my hookbaits have been playing around with them for a few years anyway, a mate broke his pb on our local using one it's a great feeling. Hence my reaction to that other idiot just taking the piss
In reply to Post #37
I have an obsessive nature, always have it's why I was a very good chef if something isn't perfect it's not good enough
I have an obsessive nature, always have it's why I was a very good chef if something isn't perfect it's not good enough
In reply to Post #1
Probably worth contacting Nash, sure they could give you the advice you require or as close to it?
You could always buy a kilo bag of scopex squid base mix and have a play?
It's not difficult to make good hook baits, there is so much information out there it should be harder to make bad ones, just anglers can't be bothered.
Good luck with your venture, these are testing times.
Probably worth contacting Nash, sure they could give you the advice you require or as close to it?
You could always buy a kilo bag of scopex squid base mix and have a play?
It's not difficult to make good hook baits, there is so much information out there it should be harder to make bad ones, just anglers can't be bothered.
Good luck with your venture, these are testing times.
In reply to Post #40
Exactly what I did in the end mate and finding the s mix base mix ain't easy however someone posted it online as Eu regs require ingredients to be on the package so worst case will source the ingredients and put it together myself
Exactly what I did in the end mate and finding the s mix base mix ain't easy however someone posted it online as Eu regs require ingredients to be on the package so worst case will source the ingredients and put it together myself
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